Matt Araiza Cleared of Gang-Rape at SDSU; Signed by Chiefs

[Marciano490]

The thing is nobody disagrees with the point that nobody should have their life ruined by a false accusation. The idea - at least for me - is that when someone jumps into a conversation with a long angry and one sided diatribe (I know I used that word earlier but it’s almost 4am) that doesn’t acknowledge the historical or even present day systemic injustices that still privilege the perpetrator over victim it’s a clear sign of an agenda that always overlaps with misogyny and toxicity and other things that should be called out.

I don’t know all that many people, but I’ve heard enough stories of women not being believed and mistreated by cops and university officials and friends and attorneys - well, arroyo is who he’s telling us he is. Why should we impute any meaning or empathy into the type of post we’ve all read 1000 times in the last few years.

Some dudes act like the worst thing in the world would be a false rape accusation. I think it’d be even worse for someone I was with to feel I’d violated them. And I trust myself enough to not worry about ever finding myself in a blurry situation. Like why are you worried about false accusations unless you’re putting yourself in sketchy situations.

I mean, this girl’s life is probably infinitely worse than the guy who fucked a 17 year old girl a couple hours before she was so incapacitated she ended up gang raped. Do you guys have a sense of how difficult it is to bring a rape accusation? Especially against someone famous? It amazes me people still believe women do it just for clout or money or revenge like all that’s entailed is posting an Instagram message.

 

[AlNipper49]

The thing is nobody disagrees with the point that nobody should have their life ruined by a false accusation. The idea - at least for me - is that when someone jumps into a conversation with a long angry and one sided diatribe (I know I used that word earlier but it’s almost 4am) that doesn’t acknowledge the historical or even present day systemic injustices that still privilege the perpetrator over victim it’s a clear sign of an agenda that always overlaps with misogyny and toxicity and other things that should be called out.

I don’t know all that many people, but I’ve heard enough stories of women not being believed and mistreated by cops and university officials and friends and attorneys - well, arroyo is who he’s telling us he is. Why should we impute any meaning or empathy into the type of post we’ve all read 1000 times in the last few years.

Some dudes act like the worst thing in the world would be a false rape accusation. I think it’d be even worse for someone I was with to feel I’d violated them. And I trust myself enough to not worry about ever finding myself in a blurry situation. Like why are you worried about false accusations unless you’re putting yourself in sketchy situations.

I mean, this girl’s life is probably infinitely worse than the guy who fucked a 17 year old girl a couple hours before she was so incapacitated she ended up gang raped. Do you guys have a sense of how difficult it is to bring a rape accusation? Especially against someone famous? It amazes me people still believe women do it just for clout or money or revenge like all that’s entailed is posting an Instagram message.

Because you are a woman? Because you are so much smarter than everyone else?

Quit your white knighting so the adults can have a conversation.

 

[sonofgodcf]

This is such a fucked up response.

He had sex with a girl that he thought was legal age and that wanted to have sex with him.

There's so much to unpack with your post, but I'm genuinely curious - what about his behavior was "gross"?

He was an adult having sex with an intoxicated minor. As I said, I'm no lawyer, but I think that is exceedingly bad judgement (at best). I never said he deserved false accusations or that we should send him to the gallows.

You don't take any issue with that behavior, fine. But I'm comfortable with how my moral compass is calibrated.

 

[moondog80]

He was an adult having sex with an intoxicated minor. As I said, I'm no lawyer, but I think that is exceedingly bad judgement (at best). I never said he deserved false accusations or that we should send him to the gallows.

You don't take any issue with that behavior, fine. But I'm comfortable with how my moral compass is calibrated.

It’s well established that she presented herself as 18 and he believed her. What’s the reasonable expectation here? Check ID of all sexual partners?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

He was an adult having sex with an intoxicated minor. As I said, I'm no lawyer, but I think that is exceedingly bad judgement (at best). I never said he deserved false accusations or that we should send him to the gallows. You don't take any issue with that behavior, fine. But I'm comfortable with how my moral compass is calibrated.

You think that raping a drunk child is wrong? Wow. Your moral compass truly is impeccable.

It's been established repeatedly that she presented herself as an adult. You're being willfully obtuse, disingenuous, and conversing in bad faith. Do better.

 

[sonofgodcf]

It’s well established that she presented herself as 18 and he believed her. What’s the reasonable expectation here? Check ID of all sexual partners?

It's convenient for him to say he believed her, but that doesn't make it so. I (uncharitably) could see a scenario where she looks too young to be at a college party, and so people keep asking her age and she decides to lie. Regardless, even if he truly believed it, it still sounds like she was likely too drunk for consent. 17 or 18, I think a 21 year old should be better than that.

On top of that, my read is that the encounter was without protection, considering he later called her to warn she may have been exposed to an STD. Not using protection when you're sexually active and not letting the other partner know is bullshit, and "gross" behavior, especially if they're drunk.

 

[sonofgodcf]

You think that raping a drunk child is wrong? Wow. Your moral compass truly is impeccable.

It's been established repeatedly that she presented herself as an adult. You're being willfully obtuse, disingenuous, and conversing in bad faith. Do better.

Saying one is an adult doesn't make it so. You're cool with a 21yo taking advantage of a drunk 17yo. How about you fucking do better?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Saying one is an adult doesn't make it so. You're cool with a 21yo taking advantage of a drunk 17yo. How about you fucking do better?

This is the SECOND time you're misrepresenting the situation. Nobody is cool with an adult raping a drunk minor. This situation had more nuance than that, and you're purposely obfuscating it. I assume the intent is to gaslight and obfuscate until the conversation gets locked.

Stop being disingenuous. If your need to whiteknight overshadows your ability to have a serious conversation, than maybe you shouldn't be in this thread.

 

[Groovenstein]

Like why are you worried about false accusations unless you’re putting yourself in sketchy situations.

So he shouldn’t have worn that short skirt?

 

[johnmd20]

Saying one is an adult doesn't make it so. You're cool with a 21yo taking advantage of a drunk 17yo. How about you fucking do better?

Maine's age of consent is 16 with a maximum of 5 years between the two people. Hawaii has the same law.

So if this happened in Maine or Hawaii, I guess you would be ok with it? Georgia's age of consent is 16. No restrictions. Indiana is the same. No restrictions. So that would be fine?

You're talking like the woman involved here has no agency whatsoever. She was 17. There are only 8 states in this country where the age of consent is higher than 17.

This isn't a guy making moves on a 12 year old. This is a guy who heard her say she was 18 to multiple people. And she was 17. It must be so easy to judge. Judgement requires no nuance. Just moral superiority.

 

[sonofgodcf]

This is the SECOND time you're misrepresenting the situation. Nobody is cool with an adult raping a drunk minor. This situation had more nuance than that, and you're purposely obfuscating it. I assume the intent is to gaslight and obfuscate until the conversation gets locked.

Stop being disingenuous. If your need to whiteknight overshadows your ability to have a serious conversation, than maybe you shouldn't be in this thread.

Writing out what literally happened is misrepresenting the situation? Beyond that, I've readily acknowledged that he could have believed her (even if I am suspect of that claim). I've provided multiple caveats, said that it was/is unfortunate that he was falsely accused of a heinous crime, and made it clear that I find his behavior personally, morally, reprehensible. Not illegal, and I've posted nothing to suggest he shouldn't have an opportunity to play in the NFL. However, I am certainly thankful it's not with the Pats.

In no way am I being disingenuous, gaslighting (what have I posted that's untrue?) or "whiteknighting" the thread. There is plenty of nuance and seriousness to my posts. There may be some in this thread guilty of hyperbole and being disingenuous, but I feel confident it's not me.

 

[sonofgodcf]

Maine's age of consent is 16 with a maximum of 5 years between the two people. Hawaii has the same law.

So if this happened in Maine or Hawaii, I guess you would be ok with it? Georgia's age of consent is 16. No restrictions. Indiana is the same. No restrictions. So that would be fine?

You're talking like the woman involved here has no agency whatsoever. She was 17. There are only 8 states in this country where the age of consent is higher than 17.

This isn't a guy making moves on a 12 year old. This is a guy who heard her say she was 18 to multiple people. And she was 17. It must be so easy to judge. Judgement requires no nuance. Just moral superiority.

No, I'm not approaching this from a legal sense re age of consent (I'm not a lawyer anyway). You're missing the part where she was drunk. That's where I take exception - that's where nuance and considering the situation comes in. Sober, consensual, encounter between a 17yo and 21yo (assuming it's legal in that state)? Good for them.

Edit to add - I have very little truck in Araiza's case, and only responded honestly to questions asked. My initial foray in this thread was to push back against the non-sensical and hysterical claim that men are now in danger of being falsely accused, as if that is a more widespread issue than sexual assaults against women.

 

[cornwalls@6]

There’s definitely a good faith conversation to be had about consent, alcohols role in that, when does an age difference become morally suspect, etc. That discussion probably belongs elsewhere, but that’s up to the powers that be here. On topic, based on what we do know, and how this has been adjudicated legally, I don’t see any reason that he shouldn’t be able to continue to pursue his football career, and I don’t think the Chiefs did anything wrong by providing him that opportunity. And full disclosure, I was somebody who was too quick to assume his guilt and harshly condemn him when the story first broke. So my default position on these cases is definitely not to defend dudes, and disbelieve women.

 

[AlNipper49]

No, I'm not approaching this from a legal sense re age of consent (I'm not a lawyer anyway). You're missing the part where she was drunk. That's where I take exception - that's where nuance and considering the situation comes in. Sober, consensual, encounter between a 17yo and 21yo (assuming it's legal in that state)? Good for them.

Edit to add - I have very little truck in Araiza's case, and only responded honestly to questions asked. My initial foray in this thread was to push back against the non-sensical and hysterical claim that men are now in danger of being falsely accused, as if that is a more widespread issue than sexual assaults against women.

I’d like for you to please link to the collection of posts which were forming that prevailing trend, please.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

I’d like for you to please link to the collection of posts which were forming that prevailing trend, please.

I think you quoted one of them and made a band name joke.

 

[AlNipper49]

I think you quoted one of them and made a band name joke.

Are you suggesting that I’m pro-kid rape by intentionally (and massively) mis- interpreting trying to lighten up the situation, you piece of shit?

 

[Ferm Sheller]

I assume that everyone agrees with the following statement (but let's please hear it if you don't):

"Sexual assault of women by men is a problem. We must do all that we can to protect women from sexual assault while simultaneously doing all that we can to ensure that no innocent man goes wrongly punished."

The problem with most or all of these "internet trials/debates" is that each accusation/incident needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis and in view of all of the facts, and we (the unwashed, news story-reading masses) rarely have all of the facts. It's human nature to fill in "facts" where gaps in information exist because it helps arrive at, and justify, a conclusion. "Likely was drunk", "maybe knew she was lying about her age", etc. doesn't cut it and is dangerous. There's nothing wrong with having no conclusion, i.e., with concluding, "I'm not sure whether he's culpable; while I can make some assumptions, I don't have enough facts."

 

[sonofgodcf]

I’d like for you to please link to the collection of posts which were forming that prevailing trend, please.

I think you quoted one of them and made a band name joke.

Right. The post below.

It’s so weird that we’ve landed in this place in American society where having a penis makes you an innate liar until proven otherwise and having a vagina makes you an innate truth-teller unless proven otherwise.

I’ve lived all over the country. In my experience I’ve seen roughly an equal split of shittiness and dishonesty across the genitalia spectrum (however you define it). Yet for some reason so many people that would normally apply logic and reason with a steady hand across most issues constantly land on “penis = lies, vagina = truth!”

In a world of endless complexity even the smartest among us find temptation in neat little boxes.

The mind reels.

Are you suggesting that I’m pro-kid rape by intentionally (and massively) mis- interpreting trying to lighten up the situation, you piece of shit?

Not to speak for George, but I think he was just pointing out that you would have already seen (and commented) on the post in question.

No one is accusing you of being pro rape (yet...)*



*That's a joke.

 

[Bongorific]

It’s well established that she presented herself as 18 and he believed her. What’s the reasonable expectation here? Check ID of all sexual partners?

You think that raping a drunk child is wrong? Wow. Your moral compass truly is impeccable.

It's been established repeatedly that she presented herself as an adult. You're being willfully obtuse, disingenuous, and conversing in bad faith. Do better.

It's convenient for him to say he believed her, but that doesn't make it so. I (uncharitably) could see a scenario where she looks too young to be at a college party, and so people keep asking her age and she decides to lie. Regardless, even if he truly believed it, it still sounds like she was likely too drunk for consent. 17 or 18, I think a 21 year old should be better than that.

On top of that, my read is that the encounter was without protection, considering he later called her to warn she may have been exposed to an STD. Not using protection when you're sexually active and not letting the other partner know is bullshit, and "gross" behavior, especially if they're drunk.

Maine's age of consent is 16 with a maximum of 5 years between the two people. Hawaii has the same law.

So if this happened in Maine or Hawaii, I guess you would be ok with it? Georgia's age of consent is 16. No restrictions. Indiana is the same. No restrictions. So that would be fine?

You're talking like the woman involved here has no agency whatsoever. She was 17. There are only 8 states in this country where the age of consent is higher than 17.

This isn't a guy making moves on a 12 year old. This is a guy who heard her say she was 18 to multiple people. And she was 17. It must be so easy to judge. Judgement requires no nuance. Just moral superiority.

Statutory rape doesn’t consider what the accuser said or what the accused believed. And @johnmd20 is correct; it widely varies state to state so there is a huge divide between what may be legal and what someone may consider moral.

A person wrongfully accused of a crime obviously shouldn’t have their life ruined over that. But I’m closer to @Marciano490 point on this. A team is allowed to have an opinion on a player who put himself in this situation. I remember vividly the scared straight presentation my college gave us at freshmen orientation regarding age, alcohol, and consent. As a 21 year-old college senior, I never would have put myself in a situation where I’m relying on what a female, let alone a drinking female, was telling me whether she was in high school or a college freshman.