Maine Celtics 22-23

chilidawg

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How about a thread about basketball? The G league C's start their season tonight, Davison and Kabengele the main attraction, but Samanic, Reeves and Shayok also players of interest. Who's got your eye?
 

Reverend

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How about a thread about basketball? The G league C's start their season tonight, Davison and Kabengele the main attraction, but Samanic, Reeves and Shayok also players of interest. Who's got your eye?
I mean, we’re all desperate for Cabin Jelly to develop, yeah?

I do love Davison’s energy and watching him can be such joy. But imagine if Kabengele made a leap?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I mean, we’re all desperate for Cabin Jelly to develop, yeah?

I do love Davison’s energy and watching him can be such joy. But imagine if Kabengele made a leap?
Wow. I would have said it this way:

I do love Kabangele’s energy and watching him can be such joy. But imagine if Davison made a leap?
 

billy ashley

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Davison isn't even that small for a guard, guys.

He isn't big for the position at all, but he's not so small that he is out of place there. He's also a really good athlete.

Whether or not he can learn to play NBA level defense and whether he can smooth out some of the inconsistency in his offensive game will determine if he becomes an NBA role player. Physically, there's nothing that's really preventing him from doing that.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Davison is the longest of long shots, I agree. But there are some raw tools there.
Disagree that he's the longest of long shots. There are way longer shots out there (Tremont Waters for one).

Looks like Davison can run the PnR on a NBA level right now and certainly is a NBA athlete. If his shot is for real and he commits to playing defense, he'll at least be a back-up PG in the NBA. Have you seen the back-up PGs right now (Outside of the Celtics)?
 

Eddie Jurak

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Disagree that he's the longest of long shots. There are way longer shots out there (Tremont Waters for one).

Looks like Davison can run the PnR on a NBA level right now and certainly is a NBA athlete. If his shot is for real and he commits to playing defense, he'll at least be a back-up PG in the NBA. Have you seen the back-up PGs right now (Outside of the Celtics)?
Very fair.
 

mcpickl

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How about a thread about basketball? The G league C's start their season tonight, Davison and Kabengele the main attraction, but Samanic, Reeves and Shayok also players of interest. Who's got your eye?
I'd love to have interest in a bunch of Maine Celtics, but unless or until the NBA just finally goes ahead and makes the G league a real minor league where the NBA parent team has rights to all the players, the only ones I care about at all are Davison and Kabengele.

I can't understand why the NBA just doesn't go ahead and do this.

Would bring a whole lot more interest to the league if fans could dream on a dozen longshot players we can wildly overrate.
 

Justthetippett

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I'd love to have interest in a bunch of Maine Celtics, but unless or until the NBA just finally goes ahead and makes the G league a real minor league where the NBA parent team has rights to all the players, the only ones I care about at all are Davison and Kabengele.

I can't understand why the NBA just doesn't go ahead and do this.

Would bring a whole lot more interest to the league if fans could dream on a dozen longshot players we can wildly overrate.
If they did this, would they have to apply the 19 year old age threshold? Otherwise wouldn’t it essentially crush the NCAA? You’d essentially be on your way to creating something like the club structure of European football teams.
 

BigSoxFan

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If they did this, would they have to apply the 19 year old age threshold? Otherwise wouldn’t it essentially crush the NCAA? You’d essentially be on your way to creating something like the club structure of European football teams.
With NIL, wouldn’t the best players make more in college?
 

BigSoxFan

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I think the NIL $$$ numbers getting thrown around (millions for a Tenn QB recruit?) are fabricated
Possibly but what does the G League pay? Not much, right? Feel like it’s better for an 18 year-old to get major college exposure vs. toiling against some AAAA hoops guys.
 

benhogan

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I'd love to have interest in a bunch of Maine Celtics, but unless or until the NBA just finally goes ahead and makes the G league a real minor league where the NBA parent team has rights to all the players, the only ones I care about at all are Davison and Kabengele.

I can't understand why the NBA just doesn't go ahead and do this.

Would bring a whole lot more interest to the league if fans could dream on a dozen longshot players we can wildly overrate.
yea, in the same vain I'd like to see them expand the number of two-way contracts and up their minimum payout

by midseason we're seeing 2-way guys play real minutes throughout the league (ie Jerome/Lamb with GS)
 

benhogan

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Possibly but what does the G League pay? Not much, right? Feel like it’s better for an 18 year-old to get major college exposure vs. toiling against some AAAA hoops guys.
G-League still pays peanuts

The salaries for players in the NBA G League will increase again for the 2022/23 season, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic, who reports that players who spend the season in the NBAGL will earn $40,500.

the G League’s annual salary rose from $35K to $37K for the 2021/22 season, so it has now increased by more than 15% in the last two seasons and is over $40K for the first time. NBAGL players formed a Union in 2020, which has given them more leverage to negotiate those pay bumps.

Unlike in the NBA, the G League pays a flat base salary to all players, so there’s no gap between minimum and maximum salaries or anything in between. However, there are ways for players in the G League to earn more than $40,500.

Players who signed Exhibit 10 contracts with NBA teams during the offseason or preseason with an eye toward joining that team’s G League affiliate will receive bonuses worth up to $50K, depending on the specific terms of their contract. That could push a G League player’s earnings up over $90K for the ’22/23 season.

Additionally, players who are on two-way contracts will earn flat salaries of $508,891 (half of the NBA’s rookie minimum), even if they spend most of the season in the G League. Players on NBA rosters who are assigned to the G League will earn their full NBA salaries, rather than the NBAGL rate.
 

the moops

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It is crazy to see the difference in grabbing one of those two-way contracts. A cool half mill if you are lucky/good enough compared to just 40K.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Possibly but what does the G League pay? Not much, right? Feel like it’s better for an 18 year-old to get major college exposure vs. toiling against some AAAA hoops guys.
From a developmental standpoint, given the limits on practice time in college, it might be better for kids to go to G-League. From an experiential perspective (and possibly money), college is better.

I'd love to have interest in a bunch of Maine Celtics, but unless or until the NBA just finally goes ahead and makes the G league a real minor league where the NBA parent team has rights to all the players, the only ones I care about at all are Davison and Kabengele.

I can't understand why the NBA just doesn't go ahead and do this.

Would bring a whole lot more interest to the league if fans could dream on a dozen longshot players we can wildly overrate.
The League's theory is that having all of the G-Leaguers available to any team (kind of like the practice squad in football) gives the typical G-Leaguer a better chance to make it to the NBA. Sort of the same reasoning for limiting the draft to 2 rounds. For example, if Samanic were limited to playing for BOS he's probably stuck in Maine all year (knock on wood!) but as anyone can grab him, he's still got a shot to make it to the NBA this year with someone.
 

mcpickl

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If they did this, would they have to apply the 19 year old age threshold? Otherwise wouldn’t it essentially crush the NCAA? You’d essentially be on your way to creating something like the club structure of European football teams.
I don't think they'd have to do anything.

I don't think anyone is leaving Duke or UCLA early to be on the Maine Celtics.

Any player on your G League team would still have to be a player that went through the NBA Draft.

I'm just talking about having rights on guys like Luka Samanic and Denzel Valentine, and maybe a mix of younger guys who were undrafted and rather than have to go play in Russia, they can play in Maine as Celtics property and get the same money they make overseas.
 

mcpickl

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The League's theory is that having all of the G-Leaguers available to any team (kind of like the practice squad in football) gives the typical G-Leaguer a better chance to make it to the NBA. Sort of the same reasoning for limiting the draft to 2 rounds. For example, if Samanic were limited to playing for BOS he's probably stuck in Maine all year (knock on wood!) but as anyone can grab him, he's still got a shot to make it to the NBA this year with someone.
I disagree with the league on all of this though.

I think if a G Leaguer was property of a team, the team would work much harder to develop them. Also, if they were treated like Worcester Red Sox and Providence Bruins, some of them would get a cup of coffee every season when players are injured/unavailable.

I think if Samanic were just on a Celtics minor league contract, he probably would've already played in the NBA for the Celtics this year. But since they'd have to cut someone to get him on the roster, he has no chance. All guys on G League contracts likely have very little chance to play in the NBA at all before the trade deadline because most teams have full rosters until then.

I'd absolutely go back to a longer draft as well. Gives you more things to trade, more players to dream on, more minor league jobs for players. I don't see the downside except it would cost the owners a pittance more in their wallets.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I disagree with the league on all of this though.

I think if a G Leaguer was property of a team, the team would work much harder to develop them. Also, if they were treated like Worcester Red Sox and Providence Bruins, some of them would get a cup of coffee every season when players are injured/unavailable.

I think if Samanic were just on a Celtics minor league contract, he probably would've already played in the NBA for the Celtics this year. But since they'd have to cut someone to get him on the roster, he has no chance. All guys on G League contracts likely have very little chance to play in the NBA at all before the trade deadline because most teams have full rosters until then.

I'd absolutely go back to a longer draft as well. Gives you more things to trade, more players to dream on, more minor league jobs for players. I don't see the downside except it would cost the owners a pittance more in their wallets.
If the Cs could pay Samanic $40K a year and keep his rights, sure they might play him once in a while but by comparison Justin Jackson, who the Cs have deemed is worth $1.8M, has only played 76 minutes this year.

Plus Samanic is not going to play at Maine for $40K a year if he can only be called up by the Cs since he could make multiples of that overseas.

The more exclusive the League wants to make the G-Leaguers, I suspect the economics of the decision would require the NBA to pay these players more. And since a significant portion of G-Leaguers will never get NBA playing time, I suspect that the League doesn't want to shell out the money.

The draft was reduced to three rounds (and then two) because the players' union collectively bargained for this. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-27-sp-3762-story.html. I presume the reason was that the players' union realized that allowing players 60 and beyond to negotiate with all teams is better for their prospective careers than being stuck on the team that drafted them.

Here's an interesting history of the draft: https://nbahoopsonline.com/Articles/History/Drafthistory.html. I had forgotten that when the draft went past three rounds, teams routinely drafted people just for yucks and giggles, like in 1984 when the Hawks selected the baby of their GM (Pat Williams).
 

benhogan

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1. NBA should go to 5 two-way contracts per team
2. Up G-League pay to $100K/year
3. Better talent from NCAA/Overseas would show up
4. Start playing after Summer League. End it after All-Star break
5. That would increase NBA team costs ~2M more/year in salary. That would be offset with broadcast rights.
6. Try to make the G-League reflect their NBA teams more with uniforms, team names, coaching, etc
7. Use 5pm(EST) start times
8. Sell broadcast rights to ESPN, TNT, NBA TV, League Pass, Streamers, etc when there is dead time in sports
9. Betting sites would be natural advertisers. They can start whetting the appetites of the hardcore hoops fans pre-NBA games with all their silly prop bets. Fast food restaurants would also be a natural advertisers with the start time
10. Experiment with rule changes, larger courts, challenge calls, develop young/better refs etc
 

mcpickl

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If the Cs could pay Samanic $40K a year and keep his rights, sure they might play him once in a while but by comparison Justin Jackson, who the Cs have deemed is worth $1.8M, has only played 76 minutes this year.

Plus Samanic is not going to play at Maine for $40K a year if he can only be called up by the Cs since he could make multiples of that overseas.

The more exclusive the League wants to make the G-Leaguers, I suspect the economics of the decision would require the NBA to pay these players more. And since a significant portion of G-Leaguers will never get NBA playing time, I suspect that the League doesn't want to shell out the money.

The draft was reduced to three rounds (and then two) because the players' union collectively bargained for this. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-27-sp-3762-story.html. I presume the reason was that the players' union realized that allowing players 60 and beyond to negotiate with all teams is better for their prospective careers than being stuck on the team that drafted them.

Here's an interesting history of the draft: https://nbahoopsonline.com/Articles/History/Drafthistory.html. I had forgotten that when the draft went past three rounds, teams routinely drafted people just for yucks and giggles, like in 1984 when the Hawks selected the baby of their GM (Pat Williams).
I didn't suggest players in the G League as NBA minor leaguers would make 40K. I'd pay them around what they'd get paid to go overseas, but get to play in the G League instead. Say 10 more players at 150K per year would cost each team a million more in salaries than they're paying now. Then maybe rather than have Justin Jackson make 1.8M, you have four minor league guys make 450K between Maine/Boston. Congrats NBPA, you just got more dues payers!

The CBA is currently being negotiated. If I were the NBA I'd be negotiating for a longer draft, the teams turn the G League into an official minor league, and more fringe players get to play in North America for a decent wage. If you had rights to players you drafted in the 3rd round(or later), I suspect they might try to draft talent rather than draft for yucks and giggles.

I don't get the "stuck on the team that drafted them" argument. It's not like they're signing ten year contracts or something. I'd bet my balls that if the Celtics drafted a kid in the 3rd round and he got a 2 year deal that paid him a split salary of 150K while in minors, league minimum while in NBA, 99.9% of players would do backflips and sign.

It's not like there are currently lots of undrafted guys who chose their spot and it made a huge difference in their careers. For every Fred Van Vleet there are 1,000 guys that would've loved to be a 4th round pick and made some money at home.
 

scottyno

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Possibly but what does the G League pay? Not much, right? Feel like it’s better for an 18 year-old to get major college exposure vs. toiling against some AAAA hoops guys.
The Ignite have 2 players making $1m this year, the top guys can play there for a year and make a lot of money if they don't want to go to college.

edit: Maybe not 1m, possibly 500k this year, unclear on the contract terms. But either way, the guys who would be getting the NIL money have an option to get paid big bucks in the g league before they get that bigger nba money
 
Last edited:

Deathofthebambino

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1. NBA should go to 5 two-way contracts per team
2. Up G-League pay to $100K/year
3. Better talent from NCAA/Overseas would show up
4. Start playing after Summer League. End it after All-Star break
5. That would increase NBA team costs ~2M more/year in salary. That would be offset with broadcast rights.
6. Try to make the G-League reflect their NBA teams more with uniforms, team names, coaching, etc
7. Use 5pm(EST) start times
8. Sell broadcast rights to ESPN, TNT, NBA TV, League Pass, Streamers, etc when there is dead time in sports
9. Betting sites would be natural advertisers. They can start whetting the appetites of the hardcore hoops fans pre-NBA games with all their silly prop bets. Fast food restaurants would also be a natural advertisers with the start time
10. Experiment with rule changes, larger courts, challenge calls, develop young/better refs etc
Honestly, I can't find anything on this list I disagree with.

I know I'd watch G League games before football started. And I know dozens of guys that would bet the shit out of it under these circumstances.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The median salary in the minor leagues (baseball) is 44K.
Is that AAA only? Because the vast majority of minor leaguers make between 5k-15k. There are 5,000 minor leaguers currently in 14 leagues with 206 teams. There was just a $185mil settlement with the majors because these guys aren't even making minimum wage:

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/mlb-minor-league-baseball-players-pay-lawsuit-settlement/?zephr_sso_ott=lbOmRw#:~:text=MLB allows teams to sell CBD sponsorships&text=Currently, there are more than,$4,800 and US$14,700 annually.

What is there, more than 10x's less players in the G League than that, and they're averaging 40k.

Both leagues are criminally underpaid given the money these owners are bringing in...
 

benhogan

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Ain't that the truth. It should embarrass the owners.
It should also embarrass the Players Union

They should be looking to create more employment/better pay opportunities for basketball players in the US.
Give the G-League more attention.

$2M/team is next to nothing in the scheme of things, heck just redirect some of the salary cap tax to subsidize G-League player salaries.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Caught my first in-person Maine Celtics game last night.

First, if it wasn't already known in these parts, it's really the best bang-for-your-buck pro sports option in New England, if you ask me. The basketball talent is very high and you sit basically 10 feet from the court for $30 a ticket. It's incredible how close every seat in the place is to the action. You can hear all of the coaching instructions, hear the players talk to each other, etc., from even the "bad" seats.

As for observations:
- Samanic wasn't playing. Bummed about that, but I guess he's hurt? Very hard to find Maine Celtics news, in general.

- Davison seems pretty legit to me. For people saying he's small, I don't see it. He looked plenty big on the court last night, and even got 7 rebounds to go with 10 assists and 16 points. He's also a gifted finisher and generally attacks the hoop really well - lots of finishes high off the glass, to the other side of the rim, etc. Plus, he seems to have real court vision - his 10 assists was his fourth straight game in double-digits with assists, and he didn't even start last night. The fans really key on him and he gets people out of their seats with his passes.

Unfortunately, while he got back to block a couple of fast break layups after turnovers last night, he also just ole'd his man from the top of the key four or five times. Maybe he was funneling to the shotblocker, but it looked like he just couldn't body up his man.

- Kabengele is really fun to watch, because he's animated and plays up to the crowd, but was an absolute foul machine last night - 6 and tossed from the game with 11 minutes to go in the fourth. He came back in with 5 after sitting much of the 3rd and my kid correctly predicted he'd be gone in 30 seconds. I believe it was only 14 seconds of game time and he played just 18 minutes total. Just brutal. He did look good from three, though, nailing one from the top of the circle and pulling up on the fast break for one that went halfway down.

He does come down with a lot of boards, though, and clearly has NBA-level size and athleticism.

- Marial Shayok looks like an NBA player. He handles the ball well enough to be a 2 guard at 6-5 and he's currently at 49% on 4.5 threes a game over the last 11 games. He was raining threes last night on the way to 32 points, and he's averaging 19.5 a game, after averaging 23 a game for Delaware in the 19-20 season.

He's had a weird career so far, coming out of Ottawa, and playing three years at Virginia, then taking a year off, then doing a year at Iowa State where he was the leading scorer in the Big 12. Philly drafted him late in the 2019 draft and he played 4 games for them while assigned to Delaware. Then he went to play two years in the Turkish league before being waived by Philly in May of 2022 and signing a one-day contract with the Cs in October of 2022. (Not sure why he was signed and waived the same day?)

Now, of course, he's 27 and probably as good as he's going to get, but there are NBA rosters who could use him on their second units I think.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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Caught my first in-person Maine Celtics game last night.
Are you...Wally Camp Jr.??? Was at the game last night as well. In addition to the cheap seats, the concessions are reasonable (if you don't hit the beers too hard). I was sitting a few rows up from the baseline on the bleachers for $16/pop with my girls. Fed them $3 slices of pizza. Free on-street parking a five minute walk away.

Side note: nobody loves their job as much as the fancam guy. He had a giant grin the entire game.
 

128

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Caught my first in-person Maine Celtics game last night.

First, if it wasn't already known in these parts, it's really the best bang-for-your-buck pro sports option in New England, if you ask me. The basketball talent is very high and you sit basically 10 feet from the court for $30 a ticket. It's incredible how close every seat in the place is to the action. You can hear all of the coaching instructions, hear the players talk to each other, etc., from even the "bad" seats.

As for observations:
- Samanic wasn't playing. Bummed about that, but I guess he's hurt? Very hard to find Maine Celtics news, in general.

- Davison seems pretty legit to me. For people saying he's small, I don't see it. He looked plenty big on the court last night, and even got 7 rebounds to go with 10 assists and 16 points. He's also a gifted finisher and generally attacks the hoop really well - lots of finishes high off the glass, to the other side of the rim, etc. Plus, he seems to have real court vision - his 10 assists was his fourth straight game in double-digits with assists, and he didn't even start last night. The fans really key on him and he gets people out of their seats with his passes.

Unfortunately, while he got back to block a couple of fast break layups after turnovers last night, he also just ole'd his man from the top of the key four or five times. Maybe he was funneling to the shotblocker, but it looked like he just couldn't body up his man.

- Kabengele is really fun to watch, because he's animated and plays up to the crowd, but was an absolute foul machine last night - 6 and tossed from the game with 11 minutes to go in the fourth. He came back in with 5 after sitting much of the 3rd and my kid correctly predicted he'd be gone in 30 seconds. I believe it was only 14 seconds of game time and he played just 18 minutes total. Just brutal. He did look good from three, though, nailing one from the top of the circle and pulling up on the fast break for one that went halfway down.

He does come down with a lot of boards, though, and clearly has NBA-level size and athleticism.

- Marial Shayok looks like an NBA player. He handles the ball well enough to be a 2 guard at 6-5 and he's currently at 49% on 4.5 threes a game over the last 11 games. He was raining threes last night on the way to 32 points, and he's averaging 19.5 a game, after averaging 23 a game for Delaware in the 19-20 season.

He's had a weird career so far, coming out of Ottawa, and playing three years at Virginia, then taking a year off, then doing a year at Iowa State where he was the leading scorer in the Big 12. Philly drafted him late in the 2019 draft and he played 4 games for them while assigned to Delaware. Then he went to play two years in the Turkish league before being waived by Philly in May of 2022 and signing a one-day contract with the Cs in October of 2022. (Not sure why he was signed and waived the same day?)

Now, of course, he's 27 and probably as good as he's going to get, but there are NBA rosters who could use him on their second units I think.
Thanks for the report. Shayok is the proverbial "professional scorer." There are holes in his game, but he can get buckets.