Liverpool 2022/23: We Go Again

PedroSpecialK

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Yep. Bitching about playing time and then not being fit, or pulling a Coutinho with a hurt back, ain't it. This has to be it for him in the shirt.
 

67YAZ

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Let me fan boy out for a moment - it would have to be €100m plus Keita to bring back Bellingham, right?
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Let’s see

Keita is in the final year of his original contract
Keita is “sick“ for the first two matches
Keita’s agent complains about playing time and contract negotiations
Keita is “out” with a muscle injury .. on game day no less
Klopp’s update is a vague as they get - in contrast to his usual comments on injuries
5 days until the window closes
 

SocrManiac

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Well , to be fair I didn’t think they needed a mid until everyone got hurt.
That’s the crux, right? It seems like fans and pundits recognize that their key midfielder is made of glass, his backup is made of wet cardboard, and the options beyond that force a system change.

This may work out as a win if they can get a good fit before the window closes.
 

67YAZ

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I forget that Neves is still only 25. He broke in as a regular at Porto 8 years ago!

he is down to his last 2 years on the contract and some sites say he declined extension talks with Wolves. He’s still a Mendes client, though, so I don’t think anything about Neves position at Wolves is simple or straightforward.

Neves is already on £50k/wk and the world knows Liverpool is desperate. I don’t doubt Mendes has a replacement already targeted from his coterie, the question is just how much will this dance cost?
 

SocrManiac

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That was quite a release. I don’t think under normal circumstances Bournemouth would have rated the strongest 11, but it needed to happen today.

Bobby has turned back the clock. He’s absolutely everywhere, making shit happen, and poaching his share. It’s so needed right now- he couldn’t have picked a better time.

Fabinho looked 90%. That’s super encouraging.

VVD on the scoresheet with a clean sheet.

Kids get a run, including a young Bajcetic at CDM playing shoulder to shoulder to Fab. There was moment that Fab directed him behind the back- true mentor/kid stuff. Super cool. He picked out a neat through pass forthat was just nicked at the last second.

The only tarnish for me was Mo. we can laugh of those misses today but they’d hurt against a big club.

Great day at Anfield.
 

67YAZ

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Midfielder du jour is Konrad Lamier. Lamier came up through the RB system - Sulzberger then Leipzig - so he understand pressing and already plays in a comparable systems to Klopp’s. He’s 25 and his #4 comp on FBRef is …Keita. His passing and interception stats are light, big he shines in pressures, tackling, and progressive dribbles. Lamier is also in the last year of his contract, so Leipzig are in a tricky spot - keep a key starter or cash in.

His injury history is a little worrying. 2 years ago, he lost 75% of the season to a broken ankle - shit happens. But last season he picked up collarbone, knee, and hamstring knocks. And he has missed 2 matches this season with an ankle sprain. Any new guy has to be more healthy than what’s already in place.
 

Pesky Pole

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Midfielder du jour is Konrad Lamier. Lamier came up through the RB system - Sulzberger then Leipzig - so he understand pressing and already plays in a comparable systems to Klopp’s. He’s 25 and his #4 comp on FBRef is …Keita. His passing and interception stats are light, big he shines in pressures, tackling, and progressive dribbles. Lamier is also in the last year of his contract, so Leipzig are in a tricky spot - keep a key starter or cash in.

His injury history is a little worrying. 2 years ago, he lost 75% of the season to a broken ankle - shit happens. But last season he picked up collarbone, knee, and hamstring knocks. And he has missed 2 matches this season with an ankle sprain. Any new guy has to be more healthy than what’s already in place.
Agree and Sander Berge's injury record might be worse than Konrad Lamier. Hard to believe it's either of these guys.
 

SocrManiac

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If I'm negotiating my next big contract at the club I point at what they're paying Thiago/Keita/(Lamier) together as the current highest earner. They need to do better than high wages to three guys that are only healthy for a combined 85% of the season. A guy getting beaten up in a less physical league isn't going to translate well.
 

67YAZ

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Jones and Matip were full participants in training today. It sure either are ready for more than a late cameo this week, but it’s something.
 

Zososoxfan

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I still think Pool should go after FDJ. The more we see Barca play, the more it's clear he's not in the best XI, nor the first man off the bench. He'll get plenty of run if he stays, but the club want him gone.
 

67YAZ

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James Pearce reports that Sepp van den Berg is bound for Schalke on loan (no option to buy). Should be a big step up and excellent test for the kid.
 

Pesky Pole

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I think this is shaping up to be a "we turned over every stone but it was just too late in the window to make something that made sense to us happen" situation. They'll make it seem like they tried and then we'll hear about Curtis Jones returning and Thiago starting to train.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I think this is shaping up to be a "we turned over every stone but it was just too late in the window to make something that made sense to us happen" situation. They'll make it seem like they tried and then we'll hear about Curtis Jones returning and Thiago starting to train.
That doesn’t mean that it’s a bullshit exercise. They have gone out of their way to proclaim they want the perfect fit. Which may not be possible this late.
 

Pesky Pole

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That doesn’t mean that it’s a bullshit exercise. They have gone out of their way to proclaim they want the perfect fit. Which may not be possible this late.
I agree if the prices get out of hand but waiting until the last week will almost always guarantee you have to overpay. The miscalculation was thinking they had enough midfielders earlier in the window. The problem is everyone they had was terribly injury prone and we're heading into a period of 19 games in 73 days (more for those who will play during the international break).
 

67YAZ

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Also, those incentive-laden fee structures and contracts that FSG loves take time to hammer out.

Plus, with everyone in the world understanding the position, Liverpool has to make a show of casting a wide net just muster a little leverage in these talks.
 

67YAZ

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Midfielder du jour: Kouaduo Mani Kone from Gladbach.

Kone is a 21yo French midfielder (France seems to be making these guys on an assembly line) who transferred from Toulouse to Gladbach last year. And then bossed around a lot of Bundesliga midfields. He profiles as an all action box-to-box type - pressures, interceptions, tackles, progressive dribbles, and progressive passes all rate out highly. But he’s not yet a threat in and around the box. Some of the scouting suggests that Kone’s technical skill means he’ll develop into a regular contributor here. He’s also 6’1” and happy to bang around with physical players.

Kone had an MCL sprain that kept him out for 2 months last season as well as a regular history of minor knocks. Nothing too worrying; but again I think Liverpool’s top priority is getting healthy guys.

Gladbach don’t seem willing to deal. ManU and Newcastle were both sniffing around this summer and backed off. I don’t blame Gladbach. They snagged a gem from Toulouse, it only makes sense to build his value and win a bunch of matches with Kone for the next 2-3 years before selling on.
 
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67YAZ

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Midfielder du jour; Curtis Jones from Liverpool.

At this point, I don’t think they’re bringing in another mid. They clearly can’t get the targets they want at the prices they want, and that won’t get any better over the next 24 hours.

So Jones will comeback this weekend and Klopp will joke that he Curtis is the “new signing.” Then we all fall to our knees and for Thiago’s hamstrings.
 

67YAZ

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Huh. That was ancient history at this point though, right? The way Klopp said it, it made me think he was referring to something that happened more recently. But maybe I interpreted it wrongly.
Matheus Nunes? He checks a lot of the boxes and we know Liverpool have seen all over Portugal in recent years. But Nunes is also a Mendes client, so that always gets complicated when Wolves enter the picture.
 

Pesky Pole

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Melissa Reddy had this interesting quote as well about Liverpool's search - "If there was a blank canvas, if availability wasn't an issue...it would be Bruno Guimarães. Somebody at City said similar, they can't believe Newcastle got that deal."
 

Mighty Joe Young

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No idea if Liverpool get a midfielder tomorrow .. But the performances of Elliot and Carvalho so far bodes very very well. Henderson on the other hand … He has looked mediocre at best and poor more often than not. At least Fabhinho looks to have rounded into form.

For me, Elliot has to be in the starting XI.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Do we have a tale of two Liverpools or of one Liverpool and an absolutely awful Bournemouth?
Two Liverpools I think. Their press was very poor again today and Newcastle had little difficulty playing out. They greatly miss Jota and Nunez and Thiago. At least they pretty much controlled the game but just couldn’t create much …something we’ve seen on multiple occasions against a low block.

Newcastle defended really well and are looking to be a good bet for Europe next year. Isak looks an excellent signing. Kind of reminds me of peak Rashford.

I don’t think we know yet what this team is. Nunez (and possibly Jota ) are back for the derby - hope he’s calmed down!
Joel Matip was on the bench today so one hopes it’s not too long before he’s back as the starter. Gomez makes me nervous - he always seems vulnerable to the cut back (Isak’s offside goal for example).

oh .. and an awful Bournemouth. The Athletic had a good article on Parker’s sacking. Combination of the public criticism of the owners plus a noticeable change in Parker himself which was alienating the players. Something that reportedly happened at Fulham as well. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy for him.
 

67YAZ

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And Henderson has a hamstring injury per the Klopp post game interview. It’s CB all over again with MF this year.
Fuckin’ hell.

Klopp on whether he expects a signing in the next 24 hours:

“I don’t think so no. As long as there is time we should not close the door completely. Hendo injured a hamstring now which is absolutely not helpful, but I don’t think so.”
Sources say RBL aren’t willing to deal this late in the window and are willing to let Laimer walk on a free rather than break up their side now.

I’ll still hold it for Neuhaus. Not sexy or exciting, but can play all over and hasn’t missed a match to injury in 4+ seasons.
 

Pesky Pole

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Arthur on loan from Juventus seems to be the answer. He’s boarded the Babelcopter for his physical. Great passer, always injured. If he and Thiago can alternate their injured times, we’re all set.
 

SocrManiac

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Once again proving how adept I am at reading the tea leaves…

Juventus couldn’t give him away earlier in the window. Funny how valuations can change at the deadline.
 

67YAZ

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Wow. That came out of nowhere.

Arthur has missed 23 games to injury the last 2 seasons. I suppose if Klopp can rotate the injuries precisely the squad will be ok.

My youngest son is named Arthur, so this is a short I may have to buy him.
 

67YAZ

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Turns out there’s a €37.5m option to buy in the Arthur deal. Seems unlikely right now.

Liverpool are picking up a majority of the wages (he’s on €120k/wk, not sure what percentage the club are paying) and £4.5m loan fee. Pricy deal, but keeps the long term finances open.

Now just stay healthy!
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I always think its funny when parent clubs negotiate these massive buy options that the loaning club is never going to take up. Spurs are the kings of this. Giving Sampdoria a 25m euro option to buy Harry Winks or Lyon a 65m euro option to buy N'Dombele. Its like a desperate attempt to maintain the fiction that these players are worth substantial money. Juve would probably have bitten the hand off any club willing to buy Arthur for 15m this summer.
 

67YAZ

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I always think its funny when parent clubs negotiate these massive buy options that the loaning club is never going to take up. Spurs are the kings of this. Giving Sampdoria a 25m euro option to buy Harry Winks or Lyon a 65m euro option to buy N'Dombele. Its like a desperate attempt to maintain the fiction that these players are worth substantial money. Juve would probably have bitten the hand off any club willing to buy Arthur for 15m this summer.
This makes me wonder if there is some kind of accounting value to this? I know clubs can value players under contract as assets...so maybe there is some bookkeeping/FFP manipulation value in this farce?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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This makes me wonder if there is some kind of accounting value to this? I know clubs can value players under contract as assets...so maybe there is some bookkeeping/FFP manipulation value in this farce?
Interesting idea. I'm out of my depth when it comes to the accounting side of football but that sounds plausible, especially with a club like Juventus in the thick of it.
 

67YAZ

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Thoughts on Arthur…

Klopp and his team really have to calibrate the training and match load better, for Arthur and the whole squad. The summer camp has to be seen as a misfire given all the injuries already experienced. And now a player with a fragile history joins the fray…

A common critique of Arthur is that he slowed down attacks with too many touches. Klopp with have to train that out of him. Liverpool are best at speed and, if laying siege to an opponent’s final third, switching back and forth quickly.

But Arthur is also a dribbler and accurate passer. Those traits will do. Keita is really the only midfield threat who will drive at defenders with the ball. We can do with more of that against back defenses, especially if it will pull the double teams off Diaz like Newcastle did effectively. (Assuming Arthur plays on the left since the Trent-Elliott-Salah right side is a unit.)

Arthur works hard, but he’s only 5’7”. He’s fast and agile on the ball, which will help, but he’s also got to be stout to battle through the EPL.
 

67YAZ

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From Klopp’s presser:

No Arthur for the Derby, not cleared for work in the UK yet. Hopefully for Napoli.

Jota trained with the side. Klopp not sure how quickly he’ll be worked in.

Says Nunez benefitted from the time to train and bed in, ready to.

Thiago should be back in training next week. Konate after the international break. And Keita is gong be “a while”…

My baseless speculation for the derby:

Allison
TAA-Matip-VVD-Robbo
Elliott-Fab-Jones
Salah-Bobby-Diaz

Nunez for Bobby at the hour.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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From Klopp’s presser:

No Arthur for the Derby, not cleared for work in the UK yet. Hopefully for Napoli.

Jota trained with the side. Klopp not sure how quickly he’ll be worked in.

Says Nunez benefitted from the time to train and bed in, ready to.

Thiago should be back in training next week. Konate after the international break. And Keita is gong be “a while”…

My baseless speculation for the derby:

Allison
TAA-Matip-VVD-Robbo
Elliott-Fab-Jones
Salah-Bobby-Diaz

Nunez for Bobby at the hour.
Seems about about right - I could see Gomez getting another start as Matip didn’t get off the bench last game.