Liverpool 2018-19: Alisson, I Know Lovren is Killing You

SoxFanInCali

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Hearing a lot of talk about Fabinho coming in from Monaco, which would definitely provide some midfield protection for the back line. Keïta will move officially July 1st. Have to think another center back will be on the shopping list, there will continue to be plenty of Pulisic speculation, and if every keeper in the world wasn't already rumored to be coming, they definitely are now after the final.

Can should be officially headed to Juventus any day now. At least one of Karius and Mignolet will leave, and quite possibly both. Everyone on the front line will be rumored to be wanted by Real/Barca/various petroclubs, but there's been no sign from anyone outwardly wanting to leave Coutinho-style yet.

Ox will be back but will miss at least part of the season as he recovers from his knee injury. Matip, Gomez, and others will have the summer to recover.

There will be ICC games in the States this summer, with the highlight being a game at the Big House against Man United. Nothing scheduled out here on the West Coast at this point, and I'm still curious if they will try to work in another game at Fenway.

There's plenty of optimism for next season coming off a second straight Top 4 finish and a run to the CL Final, but the pressure to win a trophy will grow until it happens. Obviously the other top teams will be making signings as well, and Arsenal and Chelsea will be desperate to get back into the CL spots, but it's tough not to feel good about what Klopp is building.
 
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67YAZ

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Wow. Massive signing done quickly.

Fabinho is a tough as nails defensive mid that can move the ball. Past 2 years he’s been among the Ligue 1 leaders in yellow cards and successful tackles per game. In the more physical EPL, the number of cards should come down but the physicality bodes well. He’s the true defensive shield that Henderson isn’t quite.

He also has great range of passing. Over at WhoScored, they have Fabinho attempting 58 passes a game and connecting on 86%, with almost 5 of those as long ball attempts.

And he’s only 24. There should be more development to come.

This is a great signing at a great price (reported £39m initially, add ons up to £43m). It brings real steel to the midfield. What this means for Henderson is an interesting question.
 
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BCsMightyJoeYoung

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If Fekir makes the rumoured move as well they will have turned over their entire Cup Final midfield. I didn’t think they were poor but the incoming guys definitely seem like an upgrade. The squad depth is going to be tremendous. But it looks like Wijnaldum, Milner and Henderson are destined to be squad players.

Excited about Fabinho .. from what I’ve seen he’s basically Ngolo Kante with better passing skills.

Now get Allison and it will have been a great transfer window.
 

teddykgb

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Lets pump the brakes on "Ngolo Kante with better passing skills". Fabinho is a heck of a player and that may prove to be true but let's see him play in the league before we start placing him among the best in the league. Players like Xhaka, Krychowiak, and Bakayoko all looked like tremendous DMs in other leagues and we have yet to see those guys work out. I think Fabinho is a class above and will be good but you really need to see how it plays out.

Nonetheless, Liverpool are really shaping up well and taking care of business. Fabinho, Fekir, and Keita are at least a theoretical talent infusion that should really propel Liverpool forward.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Talk about an early-window surprise. Going into this season with Keïta, Fabinho, Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum in midfield alongside the potential addition of Fekir and eventual return of Oxlade-Chamberlain is a great start. Needless to say, the biggest potential addition will be between the sticks.

Up front, I could see Origi coming back and sticking in one of the Ings / Solanke roles, and a bigger role for Woodburn / Ejaria. Outside of that, a spare out-and-out winger would help as well - I can't see them splashing the cash on Lemar that they were willing to in the winter... maybe more of a buy low like Draxler or Choupo-Moting?
 

Dummy Hoy

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Lets pump the brakes on "Ngolo Kante with better passing skills". Fabinho is a heck of a player and that may prove to be true but let's see him play in the league before we start placing him among the best in the league. Players like Xhaka, Krychowiak, and Bakayoko all looked like tremendous DMs in other leagues and we have yet to see those guys work out. I think Fabinho is a class above and will be good but you really need to see how it plays out.

Nonetheless, Liverpool are really shaping up well and taking care of business. Fabinho, Fekir, and Keita are at least a theoretical talent infusion that should really propel Liverpool forward.
Thank you. There’s only one Kante...dude is a freak. No doubt Liverpool is looking even better for next season, and adding a player with Fabinho’s game helps fill an important need.
 

67YAZ

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Up front, I could see Origi coming back and sticking in one of the Ings / Solanke roles, and a bigger role for Woodburn / Ejaria. Outside of that, a spare out-and-out winger would help as well - I can't see them splashing the cash on Lemar that they were willing to in the winter... maybe more of a buy low like Draxler or Choupo-Moting?
Origi is in a tough spot. I don't think he has the necessary traits to play the 9 or the wing for Klopp. He tried, it just didn't fit. And at this point, it makes more sense to rotate in Solanke and bring along Rhian Brewster (if he doesn't decamp for the Bundesliga) than to try to reshape Origi. Problem is, Origi had a really nondescript season for Wolfsburg, any one point getting pushed out to the right wing where he just floundered. He's still only 23 with 2 years to run on his contract, A loan looks most likely. I think Origi could do well in Serie A as a really mobile traditional 9 on a counter-attack minded team.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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Origi is in a tough spot. I don't think he has the necessary traits to play the 9 or the wing for Klopp. He tried, it just didn't fit. And at this point, it makes more sense to rotate in Solanke and bring along Rhian Brewster (if he doesn't decamp for the Bundesliga) than to try to reshape Origi. Problem is, Origi had a really nondescript season for Wolfsburg, any one point getting pushed out to the right wing where he just floundered. He's still only 23 with 2 years to run on his contract, A loan looks most likely. I think Origi could do well in Serie A as a really mobile traditional 9 on a counter-attack minded team.
Agree on Origi - just don't see a role for him right now.

Regarding Brewster - Klopp more or less promised him first team next year (undoubtedly tied to the Bundesliga rumours). So, if he stays around that means there's definitely no room for Origi - and maybe one of Ings/Solanke.
 

swiftaw

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I don't think Origi is in Klopp's plans for next season. I could also see a loan move for Solanke (Rangers anyone?)
 

ehaz

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Lets pump the brakes on "Ngolo Kante with better passing skills". Fabinho is a heck of a player and that may prove to be true but let's see him play in the league before we start placing him among the best in the league. Players like Xhaka, Krychowiak, and Bakayoko all looked like tremendous DMs in other leagues and we have yet to see those guys work out. I think Fabinho is a class above and will be good but you really need to see how it plays out.

Nonetheless, Liverpool are really shaping up well and taking care of business. Fabinho, Fekir, and Keita are at least a theoretical talent infusion that should really propel Liverpool forward.
Xhaka was never a true DM. He was a deep lying playmaker that picked up a lot of red cards. Same in Germany as in Arsenal. Lots of skill hitting the ball, not much in between the ears.

Injuries ruined Krychowiak and he was never much of a dribbler or passer to begin with. Perfect in that Seville system for a few years though.

I’ll give you Bakayoko. At Monaco, he was a true box to box and would often be the player making the crucial tackle/interception before carrying the ball up the midfield. I truly think he’s still good enough for the PL, Chelsea’s midfield is just such a different scheme and he struggled to adapt to Conte’s two man midfield.

At the very least, Fabinho is an immediate upgrade on Emre Can. Like, Emre Can is actually a decent comparable. But the Emre Can that really shows up in games over and over again, not the kind that gets caught out of position or watches the player he’s marking just running by him at times. This is a guy who led L1 in both tackles and completed passes. He’s huge in the air (almost like a midfield Van Dijk - look at his aerial duel stats). LFC has their spine. Everything else besides GK is mostly for depth (even Fekir).
 
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67YAZ

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Origi's agent doesn't like the idea of another loan deal, looking for a transfer. He told a Turkish newspaper that he's already contacted Besiktas. Given Liverpool's hardline negotiating history, I'm going to guess they'll be looking for something more than the £18m they paid for him.

Also...Sturridge is coming back after another season lost to injury. He's still making £130k/week with 2 years to run on his deal. Is he even loanable at this point?
 

PedroSpecialK

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According to Bild, 26 of 30 concussion tests came back positive for Karius. The assumption is that this was due to the elbow he received from Ramos in the first half.

edit: MGH confirmation
 
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BCsMightyJoeYoung

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According to Bild, 26 of 30 concussion tests came back positive for Karius. The assumption is that this was due to the elbow he received from Ramos in the first half.

edit: MGH confirmation
I wonder if this will dampen down any of the urgency in signing Allison/Oblak/Donnaruma?

One sort of gets the impression a GK upgrade was in their plans anyways and the CL final just confirmed it.

It’s a near certainty a Mignolet replacement will happen at any rate.

Edit: I hope Ramos breaks his leg in the WK ... grrr
 

PedroSpecialK

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In terms of the GK situation, I think Karius remains as second choice GK, one of Alisson / Cillessen are brought in for big money, and Ward is loaned out again.

But yeah - fucking Ramos... it wouldn't bother me as much if he didn't keep getting away with this shit. Truly a master of the dark arts.
 

CPT Neuron

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The headlines are are just so, so bad......"scan results" (on This is Anfield at least) - implying that they somehow, miraculously did a CT Scan or MRI that magically showed evidence of a concussion (it doesn't happen like that).

That said, seems like:
a) he was symptomatic at the time of the injury and either bamboozled the on-field examiners and continued to play or was allowed to play despite the protocols in place
b) he continues to be symptomatic at this point both subjectively and objectively (my guess is on ImPACT testing, but I have no actual knowledge of what the MGH/Spaulding Rehab model includes)
c) he is improving as one would expect given time and now appropriate rest parameters.

Maybe a revision of the protocols in place are needed.....or better adherence to them at least.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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The various reports I’ve been reading all indicate that the LFC trainers / docs were concerned at the time that he may have been concussed. The operative word being “may”. Given the magnitude of the game -and the fact they had already had to sub Salah - I think the only way Karius was coming out was if the docs ordered it.
 

CPT Neuron

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If he was truly symptomatic at the time of the injury and this was noticed on the field, it is very shocking, almost to the point of being criminal, that he was allowed to remain on the pitch despite this. I understand the substitution issue at hand, and realize that he would have needed to be completely out of it to be substituted at that point, but given everything that we know at this point in time with regards to concussions, it is almost unthinkable that he was allowed to stay in if the reports of symptoms being present during the on-field evaluation are to be believed. As far as Ramos goes, I am more offended by the Salah incident then an errantd elbow in the box on a set-piece.
 

67YAZ

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The headlines are are just so, so bad......"scan results" (on This is Anfield at least) - implying that they somehow, miraculously did a CT Scan or MRI that magically showed evidence of a concussion (it doesn't happen like that).
In the English media they’re always saying injured players are going in for a “scan.” I have just assumed they used that as a general term, like going in for tests or to be examined.

FWIW, my sense of Klopp is that trust is paramount. He has to trust the players, the players have to trust him, and the players have to trust each other. I don’t see how Karius can earn back trust at Liverpool. If LFC is willing to subsidize the wages, a loan deal to Turkey, Austria, Switzerland, or 2nd Bundesliga could be good options for Karius to start his long road back.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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After a re-read of most of the Karius reports it seems the reports of Liverpool’s medical staff’s concerns were all post-game , if not several days later. This is what lead to them recommending the MGH visit. Which lessens their in-game culpability to a degree. Karius did receive some treatment after being elbowed by Ramos.

The CL , as well as the Premier league both have concussion protocols setup. I don’t know if these are independently conducted or via team doctors.

I remember watching a Premier League game this year where the keeper got whacked in the head, staggered around looking dazed and confused for awhile and subsequently stayed in the game. Even the announcers were fairly amazed at the lack of concussion protocols being followed.
 

Bosoxen

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errantd elbow in the box on a set-piece
The word "errant" should never be uttered with a player such as Ramos. You may be right and it could have been errant - though it looks pretty blatant to me - but that fucker lost all benefit of the doubt long ago.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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Good write up on the BBC site concerning Karius and the difficulties of detecting concussions mid game.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44367148

I think, at a minimum they need to implement the rugby solution .. allow a temporary sub and get the player to a quiet room where they can be examined. That article states the team docs currently have the final say on the player’s ability to continue. That has to change .. the NHL uses independent concussion evaluators I believe which is far better.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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Multiple reports coming out that we’ve signed Fekir on a €65m deal. Sounds about what we might have expected for a transfer fee.

Klopp’s not messing around. Now get Allison and call it a window.

Edit: the €65 (that’s about £57m pounds) report was from Equipe .. Paul Joyce has it at £49 plus bonuses. Excellent bit of business.
 
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swiftaw

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I guess you have Gomez and Matip as backups for VVD and Lovren. If they can pick up a younger guy for cheapish that they could develop it wouldn't be a bad idea.
 

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67YAZ

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Seen on Twitter:

Philippe Coutinho sold for £142M

Nabil Fekir (£52M), Fabinho (£43.7M) & Naby Keita (£52.75M) bought for £148.45M

Michael Edwards has got us an entire new midfield for £6.45M. #LFC
https://mobile.twitter.com/LFCTransferRoom/status/1004828935459352576/photo/1
Fabulous business done early in the summer. Even with the World Cup, this team should have plenty of time to cohere before the games really count.

Rumors around that Klopp is kicking the tires on Shaqiri. With a £12m relegation release clause, I suspect almost every EPL side will be calling his agent. Other decent clubs will probably meet his wage demands (last season made £36k/wk) and offer more playing time than ‘Pool.

A defender would be great, but I’m guessing LFC wants to clear out some wages before moving on to lower priority transfers. Moving out Sturridge, Origi, and Mignolet have to be priorities.

Finally, the Guardian reports LFC cleared £40m in pretax profits this year, buttressed by an £11m increase in match day revenue from the new Main Stand. Business is being handled very well.

ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1528409404.792531.jpg
 
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swiftaw

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I'd assume Sturrudge is top priority to get rid if, his wages must be huge.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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I'd assume Sturrudge is top priority to get rid if, his wages must be huge.
I think he’s on £100,000+ a week .. so yeah ..

So .. we currently have

Keepers .. Mignolet (out), Ward, Karius (I think he stays), TBA (in)

Defenders:
VVD, Lovren, Matip, Gomez and Klaven (out)

Roberson, Moreno, TAA, Clyne

Midfielders:
Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keïta, Fabinho, Fekir and Grujic

The Ox is out until -what? Late November? So we have 9 MFs .. that’s too many IMO. I think Lallana is the odd man out. Wijnaldum’s place is in jeopardy as well. Grujic goes on loan again.

For forwards/strikers we have:

Mane, Firmino , Salah, Solanke, Ings, Sturridge
You could also use Fekir as a backup striker from what I’ve read.

I think (hope) they sell Sturridge and send Solanke out on loan.

And then you have the kids :
Woodburn, Wilson, Brewster and Kent.

Rumour has it Klopp promised Brewster first team this year in an effort to keep him in the fold.

I think two of those stay and the others go on loan again.

The Under23s are going to be stacked this year.

Edit: forgot about Origi .. I think he’s sold as well.
 

koufax32

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So what does a starting XI look like now?

I’d feel much more comfortable with a new GK and defender. I’ll probably say this a dozen more times.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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So what does a starting XI look like now?

I’d feel much more comfortable with a new GK and defender. I’ll probably say this a dozen more times.
Presumably ..

---------------------------- Keeper TBA-------------------------

Alexander-Arnold -- Lovren -- Van Dyke -- Robertson

----------------------------- Fabinho ---------------------------

------------ Keita ---------------------------- Fekir -------------

------ Salah -------------- Firmino ------------ Mane ------
 

Clears Cleaver

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assuming health and a solid keeper addition that team challenges for Premier League and Champions League again

If they can upgrade Lovren that would be ideal
 

fletcherpost

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Presumably ..

---------------------------- Keeper TBA-------------------------

Alexander-Arnold -- Lovren -- Van Dyke -- Robertson

----------------------------- Fabinho ---------------------------

------------ Keita ---------------------------- Fekir -------------

------ Salah -------------- Firmino ------------ Mane ------
I like this a lot. But, let's say there'sa run of big games coming up, CL, Big League Game(s) and, say, FA Cup 6th round and Salah has a knock, Fabinho's been promised a rest and VVD is suspended. How does the team look then? That's my concern. I'm low on Henderson, and like most I get sweats when VVD isn't on the team sheet, and Salah is Salah.

Ings, Henderson, Matip? I'd like the captaincy to be given to VVD to be honest.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Kenny Dalglish was awarded a long-overdue knighthood in the Queen's Birthday Honours list.

His outstanding playing and managerial career aside, he deserves it just for his support of the Hillsborough families and his charitable work for cancer patients through the Marina Dalglish Appeal.
 

fletcherpost

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Kenny Dalglish was awarded a long-overdue knighthood in the Queen's Birthday Honours list.

His outstanding playing and managerial career aside, he deserves it just for his support of the Hillsborough families and his charitable work for cancer patients through the Marina Dalglish Appeal.
I couldn't agree more. When i think of great men, great Scotsmen, i think of Kenny first. I think he's out there on his own. He oozes class and dignity and modesty, and yet he did it all on the pitch, in the dug out...but the things he did off the field, post Hillsborough...it's hard to comprehend the strength of character that takes. I know he'd never see it this way, but to me, he carried at least half the city on his back. He never wants or takes credit for much of anything. He has an old fashioned, old school sense of duty that you almost never see these days.

It's nice that the queen (or the Prime Minister) has decided to honour him, but I think we all know he transcends such state appointed titles. His legacy was carved in granite a long time ago.
 

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Uh-oh:

Liverpool’s £53m move for Nabil Fekir placed in doubt after delays
An issue with the Lyon captain’s fitness, however, delayed the announcement and placed the transfer in doubt. The attacking midfielder, a key transfer target for Jürgen Klopp this summer, ruptured a cruciate ligament in September 2015 that caused him to miss the majority of the 2015-16 campaign. He also missed several weeks of last season with a knee problem.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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The Echo guys have been indicating all along that Fekir passed the medical (after seeking a second opinion) so the delay is probably not of Liverpool’s doing.


https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/nabil-fekir-transfer-liverpool-shrouded-14763471


Instead they are citing Lyon’s balance sheet as a possible cause ..

Reports in France, meanwhile, claimed an issue related to Lyon and their accounting practices, while club president Jean Michel-Aulas was hopeful of keeping Fekir until after the World Cup, despite a breakthrough with Liverpool sporting director Michael Edwards.
Michel-Aulas’ insistence on waiting until after the WC made a bit of sense if he thought it might get a bidding war going. But, with Fekir indicating ‘Pool was the destination of choice that went out the window. Maybe he gets a bonus or something if the bottom line indicates a £48m credit on July 1st.

Liverpool FC have not commented on the mystery.

On the other hand, if the deal is postponed to after the WC, Lyon is fu****cked if Fekir suffers a serious injury.

Edit: when you think about it this suits Liverpool as well. If they have a handshake agreement then Lyon is assuming all the risk.
 
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Schnerres

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Some clubs (=my hometown club did this last year) delay transfers after the season is over. I think it´s 1st of July, when the accounting counts towards the new season. So if Lyon says "we made our business in 17/18", they could delay the transfer towards the new season, so they will have better (more balanced) numbers in 18/19. I guess, they don´t have to pay as much taxes then for the old season (just a guess, could be wrong on that, if it´s the usual calendar year).
 

67YAZ

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Lyon made 2 big money sales in 17/18 - Lacazatte (€50m) and Tolisso (€41.5m). For tax and/or FFP reasons, they might seek a delay. But who knows? Summer transfer stories are less tied to reality than the average edition of the National Enquirer.
 
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SocrManiac

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It’d be easy to make a joke about LFC’s medical team having misgivings about something, but we’re better than that, right?

I’d genuinely rather use these funds to overpay for a keeper than to shore up an already serviceable midfield. I’m not convinced Allison is the answer. He’s prone to some odd decision making at times (remember Tavares rolling comebackers to first?) and I don’t know how that’d translate to the higher presses he’d see in EPL.
 

JayMags71

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I’d genuinely rather use these funds to overpay for a keeper than to shore up an already serviceable midfield. I’m not convinced Allison is the answer. He’s prone to some odd decision making at times (remember Tavares rolling comebackers to first?) and I don’t know how that’d translate to the higher presses he’d see in EPL.
What about Jack Butland? He’s a proven EPL keeper.
 

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I’d take Butland in a heartbeat.

Everton absolutely stole Pickford last year. He would have been a great win.
Everyone talks about Butland, but for me the pick of the English Keepers is Nick Pope at Burnley. To be fair I watched a lot more Burnley matches than i did Stoke or Everton, but I think Nick Pope is class. I'm trying to find comparative stats but i'm sure i read on the BBC that he has a better save % than Butland. When Tom Heaton got injured at Burnley, Pope got the nod and kept the place. He's still got room to improve and i think he will improve.

If Pope has a good season at Burnley he'll go for the big bucks.