Level of Confidence in Direction of the Patriots Franchise

[BigSoxFan]

I know there will be many who reflexively recoil at the sight of this thread but, f*ck it, I'm going to pull a Mac Jones and force it into coverage. Last night was a highly disappointing night. Mac looked like shit. Our Zappe savior flashed...and then looked like shit himself. Defense was horrendous. Special teams was awful. Coaching was very bad. Trent Brown may have been point shaving, etc.

Here's where we are. 3-4 with some winnable games coming up, which are followed by some much tougher games, including 2 Bills games. Our 2022 rookie class has contributed pretty nicely. Our 2021 class prize has regressed considerably. Stevenson is looking great. Barmore is currently injured. The 2021 FA class is basically the same. Judon is great. Henry is serviceable. Jonnu is largely MIA.

BUT, this team will likely have a top 10-15 pick in 2023 along with some cap space to play with to fill some holes. However, the whole "who is throwing the ball to our guys" thing remains unresolved. And Belichick is 70.5 years-old. The newly-remarried owner is 81.

So, as of late October 2022, what are your thoughts about where this team is headed given the information we have at hand?

 

[Bergs]

After last night, I'd be tempted to vote "This team will not contend again this decade," but the "abort ship" clause renders that a non-starter. You need good QB play to contend in this league, and Mac Jones looks absolutely awful out there.

All that said, it was one game, and almost every team ever has a "shit down your leg" performance in them. So maybe I'm "cautiously optimistic"...

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Winning in the NFL is fucking tough. How long are we projecting out? In this division/conference, they are probably 3 years away from being anything other than a one and out playoff team (if they make the playoffs at all). I will still watch and be entertained and probably disappointed but have come to peace with these terms.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

After last night, I'd be tempted to vote "This team will not contend again this decade," but the "abort ship" clause renders that a non-starter. You need good QB play to contend in this league, and Mac Jones looks absolutely awful out there.

All that said, it was one game, and almost every team ever has a "shit down your leg" performance in them. So maybe I'm "cautiously optimistic"...

Wasn't that the Dolphins game, as well?

 

[cshea]

I voted the cautiously optimistic option. It might be an over reaction, but I admit the handling of the QB situation last night shook my confidence quite a bit.

 

[rodderick]

A little pessimistic. They can't contend without top 12 QB play and I have zero confidence they can get that out of Mac or Zappe. The remainder of the roster isn't anything to write home about either. Still think Bill is the best coach in football and recent drafts have been a lot better, but don't really have confidence in the infrastructure he built around him.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Pessimistic until the QB proves otherwise. No QB no hope. Mac might be that guy but his post-snap vision worries me a ton.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Pessimistic until the QB proves otherwise. No QB no hope. Mac might be that guy but his post-snap vision worries me a ton.

 

[Fishercat]

I went confident with work, but a lot of that hinges on that I think Mac Jones is a good enough QB, with the right team, to go deep in the playoffs. Not an elite QB but a lower end one who can, on the right team, not doom the team immediately Year 1 Mac definitely seemed like he was. Year 2 Mac has not been as good this year. I like a lot of what i've seen from Zappe but he also has the limitations that placed him where he went in the draft that I feel are valid - and the first somewhat decent defense he faced kind of stuffed him up, and I have to feel that if New England brought back Mac Jones in a limited capacity last night they feel similarly.

I think they are drafting and building the defense towards the new NFL offenses and that transition from the heavier, downhill defensive players to a more safety/speedy LB arrangement will take time - we'll see a lot of players like Fields and Allen just run over them until this adjustment occurs. I think the offensive play calling has been a mixed bag - a pleasant surprise in some games but seemingly losing effectiveness with Bourne and Jones to some extent taking steps back or not working as well within the post McDaniels system.

I think the last two draft classes appear to be winners and Belichick is a great coach, so that floats a lot of this. If rookie Mac was best Mac, move this ranking the heck down but I am hoping it was not.

 

[Super Nomario]

I'm still confident in Belichick but how much longer will he coach? It's really hard to project this team 3-5 years out.

 

[IdiotKicker]

They'll figure it out but there's a lot that needs to get done. Right now is basically like 2010 but without Brady. Have to find the guy at QB, but the window for this team is probably 2024-2026 anyways.

 

[Koufax]

I too agree with SMU_Sox. It was a great ride, but BB will have oatmeal drizzling down his chin and be playing canasta in the old folks home before the Pats are serious contenders again.

 

[fiskful of dollars]

I'm pessimistic. The brain drain, talent drain and obvious hole at QB have me thinking the Pats are middle of the pack for several years. I think BB is on the back nine (obviously), but he KNOWS it too. The nepotism and lack of insight re his own (admittedly few) shortcomings have me very worried that this franchise will compete for some time. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Salva135]

The Jets have an equal abomination at the QB position right now, but if they hadn't lost their 2 best players in one game on Sunday I'd say this team is the worst in the AFC East, but at least they have an equal at the moment. I'm confident this team can win some games it's not supposed to win, but they're going to lose games like last night because they're simply mediocre from top to bottom, and BB isn't saving them.

I'm not sure where this franchise goes from here. A few years ago if you asked this board who they would rather keep, Brady or BB, I think it might have been split among the two, but's clear that as great as BB is, he cannot, in fact, turn chicken shit into chicken salad, and if you don't have a QB (or any other real talent), you're done in this league. He simply isn't an order of magnitude better than the rest of the league to make a difference.

The only interesting question now is how long BB wants to keep doing this, and how badly he wants Shula's record. He's 24 wins away to beat that record, and that's at least 3-4 seasons at this point. I just don't see it. I respect Kraft and his shrewdness as a businessman enough to think he will work with BB and figure out an exit strategy over the next year or two, but BB is his own man and this ending awkwardly is not out of the question, either. BB's legacy is going to take a massive kick to the nuts if he puts up a couple of non-competitive playoff-less seasons to cap off his career, with very little to show he could win post-Brady. Fair or unfair, that's how Felger and Mazz and Joe Q. Public, especially those inclined to dislike BB, will view it.

I have no idea who will or should succeed BB, but I hope it's no one on the current staff. This will have to be blown up. Eventually, this will become Jonathan's legacy, but nothing lasts forever.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I too agree with SMU_Sox. It was a great ride, but BB will have oatmeal drizzling down his chin and be playing canasta in the old folks home before the Pats are serious contenders again.

The issue for me is the line of succession -- not just Brady to Jones/Zappe, but who will follow Belichick and who will follow Kraft. Of those two, the coaching/GM situation is the most troubling to me. The idea that favorite sons from the family and coaching trees will just keep the lineage moving is questionable ... unless you believe Patricia, Judge and Belichick fils are equitable to Noll-Cowher-Tomlin.

We used to marvel at how the Patriots zigged while the rest of the NFL zagged and still managed to flourish. I don't think that recipe holds as much water as it once did. Dynamic players on either side of the ball can make the difference between being consistent contenders to being stuck in the 7-10 win swamp. The Patriots don't have those types of players. Judon comes closest, but he has his own lapses -- especially when it comes to maintaining containment.

I'm not that optimistic

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I'm still confident in BB as a coach, and the last two drafts seem to have given the roster the infusion of young talent it needed (though they are not there yet).

But its a QB league and finding one good enough takes luck, the luck to have a good enough draft pick in a year when there is one available, luck to pick the right guy if there is no slam dunk prospect available for you to draft, or luck that a lesser prospect develops into that guy. Right now they don't appear to have the right guy, and I'm not sure how they get one.

 

[8slim]

A little pessimistic, but mostly because I just don't think the odds are with us to be a serious Super Bowl contender again for a while after the end of a TWENTY YEAR dynasty.

I think the only run comparable to what the Pats experienced from '01 to '19 was what the 49ers did from 1981 to 1998. But the 20+ years since for the Niners have been terribly inconsistent, to say the least. Sadly I think that's more likely to be our future. And it's not because Bill has "lost it" or anything. It's just that he's only got so many years left, and I think it'll be hard for the stars to align in that time given our personnel issues. We may make the playoffs a few times, but probably not much more than that.

But who knows, maybe we'll be in the SB in 2 years and this take will look idiotic. That's why we watch.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I wish there was "Don't know, but BB is still then guy I want steering the ship in uncharted waters". Things can get turned around quickly in the NFL with the right leadership and plan, but the QB is such a wildcard. Going into this offseason and camp, I was pretty confident that Mac would continue to progress, and develop towards being a top 10-12 QB, a guy you could win a lot of games with, and if the roster around him was such, maybe even contend for a championship with somewhere down the line. His bad regression(not at all helped by his injury) this year has me much less optimistic about him. And as fun as Zappe mania is(was), I'm just not convinced he'll ever be a long term answer. I do think the last two drafts have been good, and have me hopeful that maybe a change in his approach is paying dividends there. So, cautiously optimistic, with a healthy dose of pessimism. But, if QB gets answered/stabilized, the needle obviously tilts towards optimistic.

 

[Shelterdog]

Honestly it's hard to be optimistic about any team that doesn't have a top ten-ish QB. With above average coaching that I think we still have and generally above average roster construction/utilization [not drafting mind you] you could have a bunch of 9-11 win seasons but it's really hard to consistently draft enough very good players at non QB slots to consistently be a playoff level team or a AFC championship contender without a pretty strong QB.

Rosters change too much, drafts help, player turnover is hard so there's no particular reason either with Bill or with another strong replacement coach that they'll be mired in sub-500 play--especially sub 7 win territory-- for seasons, but no real reason to see them as becoming a better than 10 win team either until they get a new QB.

 

[Seels]

They're not so bad it's hopeless, but it's hard to look at the team and see more than a few players that could be on the next contender. Too many bad drafts.

I didn't have a lot of confidence this team could win 9 games with the roster as currently constructed anyway unless Mac took a big leap forward. I don't think the needs of the team are all that different than they were a year or two or three ago. They're still slow.Their skill position players are solid but nothing special. They have some reasonably high draft picks who are just absolute non factors...almost every first or second round pick from the last few years.

The coaching staff also just has a lot of retreads. I'm not even as down on Patricia and Judge as others are, but continuously turning over coaching staff has proven difficult.

 

[Jungleland]

I chose going to suck for a while but will eventually pull through, but I view that as a similar option to confident but there's a lot of work to be done. A good month of play from either QB and I could change my vote. Right now I'm operating under the assumption that another competitor for the starting job will be on the roster in the 2023 training camp, ie you don't have the guy right now, ie you're going to not contend until you do.

Ultimately, I still trust Belichick. He had some terrible drafts. He shouldn't have kicked Brady to the curb (though I would argue that would have cost Tom a ring, this team was screwed in 2020 no matter what). But I look at what they've done since and I don't see a ton to hate - we can moan about money wasted on Agholor and Jonnu and that Mac sucks, but it's not like they missed on a franchise QB that was there for the taking and cap space is for spending.

Bill played himself into a shit hand through poor drafting and to my eye is doing a reasonably good job of working his way out of it. I think we've seen defenses much further away from being good at various points post 2008 than this one even in light of last night. And I think Stevenson and the interior line are not insignificant assets to build the offense around.

 

[Shelterdog]

They're not so bad it's hopeless, but it's hard to look at the team and see more than a few players that could be on the next contender. Too many bad drafts.

I didn't have a lot of confidence this team could win 9 games with the roster as currently constructed anyway unless Mac took a big leap forward. I don't think the needs of the team are all that different than they were a year or two or three ago. They're still slow.Their skill position players are solid but nothing special. They have some reasonably high draft picks who are just absolute non factors...almost every first or second round pick from the last few years.

The coaching staff also just has a lot of retreads. I'm not even as down on Patricia and Judge as others are, but continuously turning over coaching staff has proven difficult.

Bad drafts go away pretty quickly. Slighlty better to have your second contract guys be draft picks you re-signed rather than free agents, but basically you only have four years of draft picks on your team at a time. This is really the last year the Winovich/JoeJuan Williams draft matters and Duke Dawson is already not a draft-related problem.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Any other coach who loses on national TV to a horrible team at home and can’t figure out the QB position in 3 seasons doesn’t last much longer. I was always a big Bill guy and I was team Mac but I no longer have faith.

 

[8slim]

Any other coach who loses on national TV to a horrible team at home and can’t figure out the QB position in 3 seasons doesn’t last much longer. I was always a big Bill guy and I was team Mac but I no longer have faith.

Well, "any other coach" doesn't have 13 CCG appearances, 9 Super Bowl appearances, and 6 titles.

He may have earned a longer leash than any other coach in NFL history.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Well, "any other coach" doesn't have 13 CCG appearances, 9 Super Bowl appearances, and 6 titles.

He may have earned a longer leash than any other coach in NFL history.

How much extra time does that “earned” leash get? 5 more years? Coach for life?

 

[8slim]

How much extra time does that “earned” leash get? 5 more years? Coach for life?

Yeah, life, to be honest. He's 70 and he's the greatest head coach of all time. He'll be here until he chooses not to be, is my guess.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

How much extra time does that “earned” leash get? 5 more years? Coach for life?

Is there a right and wrong answer? We have a lot of IBIT types here but we also have more than a few people who seriously think they understand how to fix the team better than BB.

The latter are likely deluded but what if one or more isn't?

How would you answer your own question?

 

[Silverdude2167]

The last 3 drafts seemed to be pretty good, they have a lot of cap space.

It all comes down to the QB, but if that gets figured out they should be a fringe contender next year.

The people doubting BB are insane and have unrealistic expectations for how a rebuild should go.

 

[Shelterdog]

Yeah, life, to be honest. He's 70 and he's the greatest head coach of all time. He'll be here until he chooses not to be, is my guess.

John Harbaugh kept his job after going 5-11 and having three non playoff seasons in a row. Philly dumped Andy Reid after a 4-12 season and I think KC is probably happy that they did

If there's chaos of scandals or something, sure, but I think you'd have to look at something like failing to win 10 games over a two season stretch for the pressure to be really on.

 

[Toe Nash]

Honestly it's hard to be optimistic about any team that doesn't have a top ten-ish QB. With above average coaching that I think we still have and generally above average roster construction/utilization [not drafting mind you] you could have a bunch of 9-11 win seasons but it's really hard to consistently draft enough very good players at non QB slots to consistently be a playoff level team or a AFC championship contender without a pretty strong QB.

Rosters change too much, drafts help, player turnover is hard so there's no particular reason either with Bill or with another strong replacement coach that they'll be mired in sub-500 play--especially sub 7 win territory-- for seasons, but no real reason to see them as becoming a better than 10 win team either until they get a new QB.

Yeah, this is where I'm at and why they need to be playing Mac this year when healthy instead of flip flopping in the hope of squeezing out one or two more wins. You need to know if Mac is worth a second contract ASAP and if he's not you need to be figuring out who might be the QB of the future. Every other position on the team can be turned over pretty quickly, or the path to teambuilding is not very complicated (You know you're going to need good offensive linemen so you should draft them if you see good value).

BB is still good at finding good players throughout the draft and squeezing wins out of flawed teams, the post-Brady years have shown that I think. This year's draft was good so far and as noted there's cap space. But it doesn't matter if your QB sucks, or is mediocre and isn't getting better.

if BB has already decided Mac's not the guy OK, but if he hasn't I don't understand what he did last night. But, chances are we'll never really know.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Is there a right and wrong answer? We have a lot of IBIT types here but we also have more than a few people who seriously think they understand how to fix the team better than BB.

The latter are likely deluded but what if one or more isn't?

How would you answer your own question?

Coach for life is way too far for me. Bill obviously should get a longer leash because of track record. However, at some point this is about results. The results have not been good. Brady has been gone now for what is now in its 3rd season and the long term outlook for the team doesn’t feel much better than it did then.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Coach for life is way too far for me. Bill obviously should get a longer leash because of track record. However, at some point this is about results. The results have not been good. Brady has been gone now for what is now in its 3rd season and the long term outlook for the team doesn’t feel much better than it did then.

The team went 10-7 with a rookie QB and I really want to know what you expected after Brady left.

Like what moves would you have rather them made when they were in cap jail? What major errors have they made in the draft since Brady left? I don't think you understand how hard it is to build a team in the NFL if you think they should be back to being a top team already.

 

[rodderick]

Yeah, life, to be honest. He's 70 and he's the greatest head coach of all time. He'll be here until he chooses not to be, is my guess.

Funny how that didn't apply to Brady, though. Should he have also been QB for life?

 

[Jungleland]

I don't want to give Bill too much of a pass on QB, but what options other than keeping Brady has he missed out on? Every QB draft last year has been horrid so far. The jury is obviously out on those drafted this year. The QBs who have changed teams all, for the most part, suck.

Fields looks like he's trending in the right direction, and if so you can look at not trading up for him a miss. But otherwise, all I've really got is Jalen Hurts, who looked about as bad as Mac does at this point in his second season, and Geno Smith who I don't think many here would actually want to hang their hat on for the forseable future.

It's somewhat making excuses, but where should the franchise QB have come from?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Funny how that didn't apply to Brady, though. Should he have also been QB for life?

…maybe?

 

[Kramerica Industries]

The team went 10-7 with a rookie QB and I really want to know what you expected after Brady left.

Like what moves would you have rather them made when they were in cap jail? What major errors have they made in the draft since Brady left? I don't think you understand how hard it is to build a team in the NFL if you think they should be back to being a top team already.

The question in this thread was about my confidence level. It’s not high. I’ve lost faith. It’s not about what moves they could have made to be in better spot. After cap jail they spent the most money in free agency ever in 2021, with predictably very mixed results. Yes the nfl is hard but Lets also not be naive to the fact that they could have also kept Brady.

 

[Salva135]

I have no problem with BB coaching as long as he wants, but I'm done expecting some sort of coaching magic from him. BB is a fantastic coach and has an edge on the mouthbreathers of the league, but he's not a difference-maker without Brady. This team got its ass kicked at home against one of the worst teams in the league on national TV. This team commits unforgivable penalties and stinks in all 3 phases of the game - I'm not seeing any BB+ here. And to top it all off, we officially have no idea if anyone on this roster can play QB at a competent level for any stretch of time.

If this team loses to the Jets, they are rudderless and BB will be adding a last-place divisional finish to his resume.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Its entirely understandable why people are down on the team but did people feel the same way just a week ago? Does one loss against the not terrible and maybe improving Bears squad really change everything?

One game in the NFL is relatively meaningful in terms of season results but I don't know what it says about the macro picture.

We are on to Secaucus or thereabouts.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Its entirely understandable why people are down on the team but did people feel the same way just a week ago? Does one loss against the not terrible and maybe improving Bears squad really change everything?

One game in the NFL is relatively meaningful in terms of season results but I don't know what it says about the macro picture.

We are on to Secaucus or thereabouts.

This is a fair point. I would say that it has made me more pessimistic for this current year, as I was squinting to see them rip off 4 more wins in a row. But, no, I don't think they have close to the talent that the top tier teams in the AFC have. Coaching and some skill and a good D could get them 8-10 wins, I thought...but that doesn't translate well in the playoffs.

 

[ShaneTrot]

I just wished they tanked the Covid year. They haven't drafted in the top ten since Mayo in 2008. There is, of course, no guarantee that you will get a stud in the top ten but look at the Jets, they have Sauce Gardner and Quinnen Williams. The Pats never have a shot at players with this kind of pedigree.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I'm still confident in Belichick but how much longer will he coach? It's really hard to project this team 3-5 years out.

I am confident in him too.

I think we can all recognize that Andy Reid is a damn fine coach but he could only go so far with Alex Smith at QB. I like what Bill has done in drafts since 2020. If you get a couple quality starters in each draft that's good. Free agent wise I think he's hit on Henry and Judon. Bourne (when you consider this year) and Godchaux have been mixed bags. Jonnu and Agholor have been misses. That's not great but it's free agency and a lot of teams have the same problems signing free agents. There's a reason they were free agents.

I saw some plays from Mac vs Baltimore that made me reconsider his ceiling but also saw too many troubling plays that made me question if he has a fatal Kirk Cousins like flaw with post-snap vision. If that's the case he might be someone you can win with but he will never be someone you can win consistently because of. Post-snap vision is a tough skill to improve but some of what he is doing is reckless. You can cut down on being reckless. He just needs to recheck coverage before throwing it for example. Still, there is no guarantee he gets better here. It's like @Super Nomario says - the best ones do but they also slowly get better after years whereas most guys don't.

I am not sure if Belichick has the patience to wait for someone to get better but the FA alternatives are around just as bad AND more expensive.

 

[Toe Nash]

I just wished they tanked the Covid year. They haven't drafted in the top ten since Mayo in 2008. There is, of course, no guarantee that you will get a stud in the top ten but look at the Jets, they have Sauce Gardner and Quinnen Williams. The Pats never have a shot at players with this kind of pedigree.

Yes, this is the major thing I would have done differently, they were lucky (perhaps) that Mac fell to them and they grabbed him but BB does not run teams that way. That was a good draft too.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

A little pessimistic, but mostly because I just don't think the odds are with us to be a serious Super Bowl contender again for a while after the end of a TWENTY YEAR dynasty.

I think the only run comparable to what the Pats experienced from '01 to '19 was what the 49ers did from 1981 to 1998. But the 20+ years since for the Niners have been terribly inconsistent, to say the least. Sadly I think that's more likely to be our future. And it's not because Bill has "lost it" or anything. It's just that he's only got so many years left, and I think it'll be hard for the stars to align in that time given our personnel issues. We may make the playoffs a few times, but probably not much more than that.

But who knows, maybe we'll be in the SB in 2 years and this take will look idiotic. That's why we watch.

The Steelers have managed to figure it out.

 

[BaseballJones]

Unless you're the Bills with Josh Allen or the Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes (I'm still not totally sold on Jalen Hurts and Philly), which franchise REALLY, honestly, has the right to be super optimistic about the future? The Chargers? They have a really good QB but they never seem to get there. Cincinnati? They have loads of offensive talent, but they lost to the crappy Steelers at home and the window when their elite talent is affordable is not big. Having Burrow on a $50m a year deal is quite different than having him on a rookie deal, ya know?

Who else really should be optimistic? Dallas? Ugh. The Giants? Please. Nobody in the North or South. The 49ers? Maybe, but they're kind of all in now and their QB of the future is a GIGANTIC question mark. AFC....Denver? No. LAC? Just mentioned them. LV? Ehhhh....not really. Nobody in the South unless you really think that Lawrence is the next megastar. Tennessee? The days of Henry are soon coming to a close, and Tannehill can't carry the load, and then what? Baltimore? Maybe, if you think Jackson is the real deal. Miami? Sure they have talent but Tua is also a huge question mark.

I mean...I think Allen/Buf and Mahomes/KC are the only two franchises that appear to be locked in to be excellent for the foreseeable future. Everyone else? Nope, not in my book. That doesn't mean that other teams won't have good seasons or two - of course they will. But it's really hard to see what franchise outside those two appear locked in to be excellent for years to come. Everyone else needs to hold on to their butts.

 

[Shelterdog]

The Steelers have managed to figure it out.

Steelers were below 500 the year before they got Big Ben and look to be below 500 this year, and they were 500 a bunch of years he played. They're a good solid organization with good coaching and a good model for the Pats post BB, but they've been helped for a while by having a HOF QB.

 

[54thMA]

Unless you're the Bills with Josh Allen or the Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes (I'm still not totally sold on Jalen Hurts and Philly), which franchise REALLY, honestly, has the right to be super optimistic about the future? The Chargers? They have a really good QB but they never seem to get there. Cincinnati? They have loads of offensive talent, but they lost to the crappy Steelers at home and the window when their elite talent is affordable is not big. Having Burrow on a $50m a year deal is quite different than having him on a rookie deal, ya know?

Who else really should be optimistic? Dallas? Ugh. The Giants? Please. Nobody in the North or South. The 49ers? Maybe, but they're kind of all in now and their QB of the future is a GIGANTIC question mark. AFC....Denver? No. LAC? Just mentioned them. LV? Ehhhh....not really. Nobody in the South unless you really think that Lawrence is the next megastar. Tennessee? The days of Henry are soon coming to a close, and Tannehill can't carry the load, and then what? Baltimore? Maybe, if you think Jackson is the real deal. Miami? Sure they have talent but Tua is also a huge question mark.

I mean...I think Allen/Buf and Mahomes/KC are the only two franchises that appear to be locked in to be excellent for the foreseeable future. Everyone else? Nope, not in my book. That doesn't mean that other teams won't have good seasons or two - of course they will. But it's really hard to see what franchise outside those two appear locked in to be excellent for years to come. Everyone else needs to hold on to their butts.

Couldn't agree more, was just having this discussion with a friend of mine earlier today after last nights shitshow.

Bills and Chiefs are in a class by themselves.

The rest of the league is a crapshoot from week to week, no clue who is good, who is not from game to game.

Barring major injuries, these two teams will face off to advance to the Super Bowl and probably demolish whoever survives the NFC.

 

[Dr Strangeglove]

Before last night I would have been in the "they'll figure it out" category, but now I'm "not so sure anymore." The whole team seemed sluggish. Plays were slow to develop and there were a lot of bad throws by both QBs. Even the two successful long throws by Bailey were not that great. They succeeded due to adjustments by the receivers. There always will be bad games. Maybe last night was just one of those. But there may be systemic issues as well. And as they say in basketball coaching, "Ya can't teach tall."

 

[BusRaker]

Well it's almost been 20 hours and if you asked my last night / this morning I would have said we'll go 3-14. Now I'm starting to think this was just a one week train wreck. The health of Dugger / Barmore / Phillips will be more telling of the future. We're gonna win some more games, we're gonna lose some more games, and there's the potential for more train wrecks but alas this is where we are with a .500 team that can be heavily influenced by fumble and injury luck.

I would also say why not getting good quarterback play, we actually enjoy some depth there now

 

[4 6 3 DP]

I look across the league and see coaching that is just terrible all over the place, and hired in most cases by very, very successful businesspeople.

Arthur Blank is a very smart man. The coach he hired has spent top 10 capital two years in a row on elite pass catchers and then they put a complete stiff at QB and don't use the passing game. Obviously the Waltons didn't hire the moron in Denver but he's sabotaged the season with his incompetence. You can go on and on, but there are some real atrocities coaching teams, and how many teams have head coaches that are actually adding value on a weekly basis - I'd say 10 at most. There are probably 10 QB in the league that are definitely added value week in and week out.

Teams that have both:

Allen and McDermott
Mahomes and Reid
Rodgers and LaFleur (not positive on LaFleur, but 39 wins in 3 yrs we will go with that)
Jackson and Harbaugh
Stafford and McVay (though Stafford looks like his arm strength is terrible YTD)

As far as pairing of coach and QB, after that I don't see any other franchises who have both a proven QB and a proven coach, you're looking at an offseason when there are probably 5-10 franchises willing to throw a fortune at Payton to come in - Dallas obviously sticks out and he'd be a massive improvement on McCarthy, but I do wonder if a team like San Diego says you go all in on your QB and try to make the move, even if Staley might be a good coach, you don't know what you have there yet.

Long story short, unless there's an in house candidate who can shoot the moon as a HC, we aren't likely to replace BB with anyone great if there isn't a franchise QB in place, and so to me BB stays until he doesn't want to do it anymore, even if the odds are his best days ended in Atlanta as the Greg Zeurlein FG attempt went wide left.

 

[j-man]

the good news - bill will be your guy for 3-4 years he is breaking shula record because if mr kraft fires him teams like Denver Detroit will hire him withen 24 hrs
because all those teams have to do is promise bill that his son will be next in line

the bad news buffalo looks to be a wagon for 3-5 years miami is a 8-10 win team so are the jets most years ne was looking at a 5-1 afc east rec now is 3-3 at best if not 2-4
u are going to need 2-3 years of soild drafted

my quick .02 on all 32 teams 5 years out
Buff - 9
Mia 6-5 they will need to upgrade at qb
nyj 8 ditto nyj but better def
ne 7 i am puting vrabel here unlees they love matt p
Balt 7.5 soild as a rock
ciny 9 i am really high on burrow
pitt 7 i lack conf in mike t
cle 5 a mess
hou 6 only because of their high draft picks
jax 7.5 love trevor but lack star power
indy 5.5 a mess i doubt they can pick a qb
tenn 5 if vrabel stays filp tenn and ne
den 4 great homefield but who knows who there in 5 years
kc 8 reid will be gone knocking them down
lac 7 will have a qb but their ownship is cheap at times
vegas 5 davis will be gone in 5 years its mcd at best a 9 win coach

nfc
dallas steven will be cheaper than jerry 6
philly 7 they are going through their best year of the next 5 now
nyg 8.5 this couild be the new power team
wash with sydner 1 without 5
chi 6 bears are too safe to win it all unless they hit lighting in a bottle
det 5 they are snakebit if bill gets fired ex him here
gb 4 gb is about to go on a 25 year drought hahaha felger
minn 7 couild rule the north for a while
atl 6 ownership meddles too much
car 4.5 unlees they hit on a qb in the 23 draft then this grade goes up
tb 5 girm future without brady
no 4 looks like they are back to aints
rams 6 stong ownership keeps them in it
zona 5 too up/down for me
sf 5.5 might be a mess in 5 years
sea 8 the trade of russell wilson will lead seattle to a 2nd ring unless carroll does not pick a qb with denver pick

top 5 teams in afc 2026
1 ciny
2 buff
3 kc
4 hou
5 nyj

nfc
1 Sea
2 nyg
3 minn
4 atl
5 rams