Kyrie is hurt and we have schadenfreude

Cellar-Door

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I don't know what that tweet is suggesting - that Durant may leave if he doesn't like the direction of the nets...but Kyrie could leave??
That KD isn't sure he wants to be there or with Kyrie anymore, and without the loyalty to KD aspect of it, Kyrie is more likely to shop for a place that wants him more.
Morey refusing to trade for Kyrie because he wants to re-sign Harden to a max deal will be a career-ender.
Meh. The Harden max is probably a bad move no matter what, but Kyrie is a massive risk, even if he goes somewhere and is a model employee nobody will fault Morey for passing on him, particularly not a fanbase and ownership group that just had the Simmons debacle.
 

Cellar-Door

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Shams is the most shameless "reporter" outside of Schefter. This is clearly coming from Irving's camp to pressure the Nets to give him an extension.
They all do. He usually has the better agent sources, while Woj gets the team's side.
To me the most shameless is Haynes, because he has like 4 sources, and one of them is Klutch, so he does some really egregious water carrying.
 

The Social Chair

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They all do. He usually has the better agent sources, while Woj gets the team's side.
To me the most shameless is Haynes, because he has like 4 sources, and one of them is Klutch, so he does some really egregious water carrying.
Agree on Haynes.

Woj at least has his front office sources vet the agent claims.
 

Kliq

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That would seem unlikely since they could trade Durant for a massive haul. Maybe they wouldn't have their own pick but they'd have a better foundation to start.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That would seem unlikely since they could trade Durant for a massive haul. Maybe they wouldn't have their own pick but they'd have a better foundation to start.
It could be among the largest hauls ever for a player. Multiple teams would likely be involved to get the Nets the compensation to get it done.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I personally don't think Boston is on KDs list. When Simmons had pushed him on this in one of his podcasts a while back, KD practically scoffed and confirmed that Boston was never a real player for his services on either occasion.

I assume - perhaps incorrectly - that was for reasons not related to the teams success on the court, as they were a pretty solid team during those stints.
 

Ed Hillel

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It could be among the largest hauls ever for a player. Multiple teams would likely be involved to get the Nets the compensation to get it done.
Durant ain’t going to a team with a massive haul of valuable draft picks, is he?
I personally don't think Boston is on KDs list. When Simmons had pushed him on this in one of his podcasts a while back, KD practically scoffed and confirmed that Boston was never a real player for his services on either occasion.

I assume - perhaps incorrectly - that was for reasons not related to the teams success on the court, as they were a pretty solid team during those stints.
Tatum and Brown were young and had a lot of potential, but were nowhere near established and it’s quite understandable that KD not want to take that risk. That has changed, obviously.
 

djbayko

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That would seem unlikely since they could trade Durant for a massive haul. Maybe they wouldn't have their own pick but they'd have a better foundation to start.
Yeah, if Kyrie is gone, then Durant demanding out is the best thing for the long-term outlook of the team. Short term pain, however, since they traded away all of their interesting young pieces.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Durant ain’t going to a team with a massive haul of valuable draft picks, is he?
I’d guess an All-Star, a rotation player and a boat load of picks accumulated from multiple teams. What contender wouldn’t want Durant for the next 3-4 years?
 

Caspir

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I personally don't think Boston is on KDs list. When Simmons had pushed him on this in one of his podcasts a while back, KD practically scoffed and confirmed that Boston was never a real player for his services on either occasion.

I assume - perhaps incorrectly - that was for reasons not related to the teams success on the court, as they were a pretty solid team during those stints.
Yup, and there was a comment (can’t remember it verbatim) about how the Warriors were the only team to pitch him on his basketball fit and how he would work within their system. There was another piece along those lines that made me think of the C’s flying Tom Brady and David Ortiz out that made me think it was like the scene in Entourage when Vinny was looking for new agents. “McDonald’s, Nike, Vincent Chase.”
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Durant ain’t going to a team with a massive haul of valuable draft picks, is he?
Tatum and Brown were young and had a lot of potential, but were nowhere near established and it’s quite understandable that KD not want to take that risk. That has changed, obviously.
Jaylen had just been drafted and Tatum hadn’t stepped foot in Cameron yet, never mind showing NBA superstar potential. The only draw was the buzz from just signing Horford, general Stevens buzz, the future picks incoming, and generally being a team somewhat on the rise. Plus Titletown stuff referenced above.

The math has definitely changed because of Tatum alone.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don’t see Pat Riley putting up with Kyrie’s crap.

Then again, they are probably favorites in the East with him.
Miami’s culture has gotten the best out headcases like Whiteside and Dedmon……..Kyrie in a contract year would be an MVP candidate in Miami.
 

Tony C

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I think Kyrie is a different kind of headcase though. Being an underachiever without a lot of winning spirit is one thing, Kyrie is ....a whole different level -- strikes me as a guy who can kill the sort of culture they've built in Miami.

That said, I suspect there'll be a year of good Kyrie before he starts blowing things up again (did Woj really report he make take an exception to play with the Lakers? That really is nuts...).
 

nighthob

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I’d guess an All-Star, a rotation player and a boat load of picks accumulated from multiple teams. What contender wouldn’t want Durant for the next 3-4 years?
No contender is trading away an all star. That’s not how superstar deals work. The Nets are going to get marginal young players and marginal picks if he goes Full Frontal Harden on them.
 

Cellar-Door

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No contender is trading away an all star. That’s not how superstar deals work. The Nets are going to get marginal young players and marginal picks if he goes Full Frontal Harden on them.
There is no comp for a Durant trade. A perennial MVP candidate with FOUR years left on his deal, and being traded by a team that has no incentive to tank because it has none of it's own picks for 5 years. You never get full value, but usually you get a bunch of young guys and picks in part because you're re-setting so part of what you are also getting is your own picks being better.

The Chris Paul/Westbrook trade was a 9 time All-Star plus picks.

I guess you could argue that HOU got an All-Star, in that Oladipo was a 2 time All-Star coming off a bad injury.
 

nighthob

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There is no comp for a Durant trade. A perennial MVP candidate with FOUR years left on his deal, and being traded by a team that has no incentive to tank because it has none of it's own picks for 5 years. You never get full value, but usually you get a bunch of young guys and picks in part because you're re-setting so part of what you are also getting is your own picks being better.
A contender is trading for Durant to put them over the top, they’re not trading away their all stars for the mid 30s Durant in hopes of becoming slightly more competitive.

The Chris Paul/Westbrook trade was a 9 time All-Star plus picks.
Chris Paul was an all star of days past when Houston traded him, which is why Morey gave up all those draft picks to get Westbrook. Terrible talent evaluation on his part. Houston may as well have traded for Kyrie for all it did for them.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’d guess an All-Star, a rotation player and a boat load of picks accumulated from multiple teams. What contender wouldn’t want Durant for the next 3-4 years?
My question is which contender Durant wants to go to can actually do this? Who can give up an All Star and a boat load of picks with any sort of value? Which team is this?
 

lexrageorge

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Given that it was supposedly Kyrie that was talking KD into joining him at Brooklyn during the infamous All Star game conversation, I have to believe KD is a bit miffed at Kyrie for how this all went down.

I'm curious what the Nets get in return for Kyrie. Maybe KD is waiting this out to see what the return looks like as well. Meanwhile, some team is going to pay dearly for Kyrie's decline years, and that decline is going to be fairly steep when it happens in the near future. We saw shades of that in the playoffs.
 

Cellar-Door

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That seems to be what they're hinting at. And it sounds good until Durant starts mailing in his performances.
Maybe, but one thing about Durant... he just really loves to play basketball, I honestly can't see him doing it. He might snipe in the press and whine, but look at this year, look at the year before, where Kyrie and Harden pout and quit when things are hard, Durant still goes full out.
 

scottyno

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No contender is trading away an all star. That’s not how superstar deals work. The Nets are going to get marginal young players and marginal picks if he goes Full Frontal Harden on them.
Harden literally just got traded for a package that included an all star. They aren't taking marginal players and marginal picks for Kevin fucking Durant and the 4 years he just locked himself in to.
 

scottyno

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If your team-building strategy is to get superstars to voluntarily build their superteams with your franchise, this might be suboptimal.
So is giving the superstars away for pennies on the dollar after they committed to building a superteam on your team
 

nighthob

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Harden literally just got traded for a package that included an all star. They aren't taking marginal players and marginal picks for Kevin fucking Durant and the 4 years he just locked himself in to.
An all star that hasn’t seen the court in forever and a day. Ben Simmons is rapidly approaching Healthy Kawhi, Big Foot, and Nessie levels of reality. I mean, sure, if another superstar goes FFH on his team because he wants out of a lunatic asylum, I’ve no doubt that that team would gladly unload him. I’m just not really sure that that’s the sort of situation that’s going to make Durant happy, though.

And you’re looking at this from the wrong angle, Harden wanted to go to Philly and Morey wanted to unload Ben Simmons on someone. Both Harden and Morey got their wish. How happy do you think the Nets are with that deal today?
 

nighthob

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They traded a fat guy who doesn't care for a non-shooting point guard who doesn't play. It's like I bartered my Barry Manilow vinyl collection for a cracked jacuzzi.
The cracked jacuzzi is probably more valuable, though. You can at least use it to ice down the brews at family barbecues. Which is really important in case James Harden shows up.
 

JFK35

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Call me crazy but I prefer Kyrie and KD stay in Brooklyn. Then going elsewhere to me is likely to end up in a spot where the Celtics are weaker.

Plus, in the off chance they actually get it together I can handle a franchise like Brooklyn winning a title. But if god forbid Pat Reillys heat or worst of all… the Lakers. I couldn’t stomach it
 

Cellar-Door

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An all star that hasn’t seen the court in forever and a day. Ben Simmons is rapidly approaching Healthy Kawhi, Big Foot, and Nessie levels of reality. I mean, sure, if another superstar goes FFH on his team because he wants out of a lunatic asylum, I’ve no doubt that that team would gladly unload him. I’m just not really sure that that’s the sort of situation that’s going to make Durant happy, though.

And you’re looking at this from the wrong angle, Harden wanted to go to Philly and Morey wanted to unload Ben Simmons on someone. Both Harden and Morey got their wish. How happy do you think the Nets are with that deal today?
I think the Nets are probably fine with it? They obviously don't see the clear win with Simmons not returning, but still some possibilities there, plus they still got a pair of 1sts and Curry who if they want can bring value from a contender. Paying Harden's next deal is likely something they weren't thrilled about before, and would be even less thrilled about now.
 

lexrageorge

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I think the Nets are probably fine with it? They obviously don't see the clear win with Simmons not returning, but still some possibilities there, plus they still got a pair of 1sts and Curry who if they want can bring value from a contender. Paying Harden's next deal is likely something they weren't thrilled about before, and would be even less thrilled about now.
I think the trade is being initially judged by the fact that both teams seemed to have gotten worse after the trade was made, and both were overmatched in the playoffs. The Warriors would have swept either team with an average scoring margin of around 30.

Longer term, the Nets probably come out ahead in the debacle. If the Nets unexpectedly resign Kyrie and Simmons comes back, they could yet have a decent team. But I also agree that the Nets will not just dump KD upon request. They will be in a position to demand a serious return, and their GM is not going to fall into the nonsense media narrative of "KD must be traded before the season", so they will definitely get a haul.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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They traded a fat guy who doesn't care for a non-shooting point guard who doesn't play. It's like I bartered my Barry Manilow vinyl collection for a cracked jacuzzi.
You keep my hero's name out your mouth! A cracked jacuzzi can only hold some liquor for a party, but my man can make any club into the hottest spot north of Havana. (I laugh because I'm not a Manilow fan but my wife is unreasonably so to the tune of many concerts I have attended with her.)

Edit: the real "challenge" trade for each others' undesirables like Harden for Simmons would be Kyrie for Westbrook, but if I'm the Nets I need a lot more assets back from the Lakers because of Westbrook's utter inefficiency as compared to Kyrie. To be fair, if Westbrook played 2 out of every 5 games like Kyrie did last season he'd have unlimited energy and be putting up 30 pt triple doubles.
 
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John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Sources: Kyrie Irving has requested and received permission from the Nets to find sign-and-trade offers from other teams. Kevin Durant still hasn't spoken to Nets front office. Russell Westbrook to Brooklyn remains unlikely. More for
@NYDNSports
I know that every GM and coach thinks that they can "fix" Irving or at least get him on board to go with their program, but they have to know how this movie ends, right? Why would you give up any value for this player? I understand the amount of talent that Irving possesses, but I don't get why someone would willingly put him on their team.

I'm glad that the Celts got burned by him because you could really convince yourself that he'd be the last piece needed to make this team a champion. Maybe even a mini-dynasty. But he wouldn't.
 

moondog80

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Calling his bluff? "Sure, go ahead, go out there and gauge the interest other teams have in trading for you."
 

Cellar-Door

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I know that every GM and coach thinks that they can "fix" Irving or at least get him on board to go with their program, but they have to know how this movie ends, right? Why would you give up any value for this player? I understand the amount of talent that Irving possesses, but I don't get why someone would willingly put him on their team.

I'm glad that the Celts got burned by him because you could really convince yourself that he'd be the last piece needed to make this team a champion. Maybe even a mini-dynasty. But he wouldn't.
Because most of these guys are getting fired in 2-3 years if they don't put together a good enough run, and Kyrie is a buy low chance, even if you get a single "Fuck the Nets I'm gonna show how good I am" season out of him before he inevitably starts being him again, it can get you a new contract. Also, it shifts blame. It's not that you screwed up, it's that Kyrie is ruining things.