Kevin Towers says pitchers who do not feel comfortable hitting batters do not belong in a Diamondba

[soxhop411]

â@molly_knight: Wow. DBacks GM Kevin Towers wants his pitchers to bean more hitters. Fired Charles Nagy partly because they didn't:


http://arizonasports.com/42/1668458/Arizona-Diamondacks-GM-Its-going-to-be-an-eye-for-an-eye

This seems like a very idiotic thing for a GM to say and even more so using that as a reason to fire a pitching coach.

Edit: fixed URL

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I'd be interested to see some more context behind this.
 
Beaning hitters to get them off the plate hasn't really had definable outcomes in results. I'd be interested to see if Towers has some measurable information re:establishing the inside part of the plate correlating to results (inside or outside of plate).

 

[rembrat]

He doesn't have data. The Dodger/DB rivalry is about to blow up and he wants payback for everything that happened this year.

 

[Dionysus]

Alot of those quotes having nothing to do with establishing the inside part of the plate. I mean look at this:

"I was sitting behind home plate that game and when it showed up on the Diamondvision of stuffing bananas down their throats, I felt like we were a punching bag," Towers told Arizona Sports 620's Burns and Gambo Tuesday. "Literally, if I would have had a carton of baseballs I would have fired them into the dugout from where I was sitting behind home plate.

Towers is an idiot

 

[rembrat]

Kevin Towers is one of the better (smarter) GM's in the game. I don't mind this since it'll lead to more interesting games which is all I really care about as a fan. Obviously you hope these guys go after hitters the right way and not how Kennedy hit Greinke. 

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

He doesn't have data. The Dodger/DB rivalry is about to blow up and he wants payback for everything that happened this year.

 
I can get behind this, too.
 
I mean...I like to watch beanball wars.

 

[Average Reds]

Kevin Towers is one of the better (smarter) GM's in the game. I don't mind this since it'll lead to more interesting games which is all I really care about as a fan. Obviously you hope these guys go after hitters the right way and not how Kennedy hit Greinke. 

 
Serious question:  how would you back up your contention that Kevin Towers is one of the smartest GMs in the game?

 

[SoxFanInCali]

DBacks pitchers hit 60 batters.
DBacks batters were hit 43 times.
 
And he wants his pitchers to retaliate more?

 

[rembrat]

 
Serious question:  how would you back up your contention that Kevin Towers is one of the smartest GMs in the game?

 
'Smartest' is a bit different than 'smarter,' which is the word I used. Do you not think Kevin Towers, a 15 year GM, and one of the more respected GMs in the league isn't one of the more smarter ones? And no I can't back up if he is respected or not. 

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Kevin Towers is one of the better (smarter) GM's in the game.

1. 18 years, no rings
2, Fires pitching coach (not that it really matters, but an above-average ex-pitcher, who supposedly knows what he;s doing) for not beaning batters.
3. talks about it.
 
I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Longevity does not necessarily equal quality.
 
is he better / smarter than any of these guys?
 
Hoyer/Epstein
Cherington
Duquette
Jocketty
Sabean
Beane
Daniels
Dombrowski
Cashman
Alderson
Huntington
Mozeliak
Friedman
Moore
Wren

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Did he actually say he wanted more beanballs, or more retaliatory HBPs? There's a huge difference between the two. Beaning = hitting a batter in the head.

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

I just have to say that if this story is true, Towers couldn't have picked a better manager for his team than Gibson. It sounds like they want to be the Atlanta Braves West.
 
Also, championships are probably not the best measuring stick for GM aptitude. Sabean has 2 and I want to strangle him half the time.

 

[Average Reds]

 
'Smartest' is a bit different than 'smarter,' which is the word I used. Do you not think Kevin Towers, a 15 year GM, and one of the more respected GMs in the league isn't one of the more smarter ones? And no I can't back up if he is respected or not. 

 
Apologies for the misinterpretation - it was not intentional.
 
Anyway, my personal opinion of Towers is not favorable.  He spent the vast majority of his career in San Diego where his most notable accomplishment appears to be the facilitation of  PED use by Ken Caminiti and others.  (Towers admitted after Caminiti died that he suspected abuse but said nothing. Points for honesty, I guess, but that's about it.)
 
Since he escaped San Diego, he does not seem to have accomplished anything, so no, I would not characterize him as one of the smarter GMs in baseball.  And the article that is linked in this thread does not paint him in an especially flattering light, so I really have no reason to change my opinion.

 

[Average Reds]

Did he actually say he wanted more beanballs, or more retaliatory HBPs? There's a huge difference between the two. Beaning = hitting a batter in the head.

 
Did not use the word "beanballs," but draw your own conclusions.
 

 
"You'd think the GM comes down and makes it a point to talk to the staff about it that at we need to start protecting our own and doing things differently," he said. "Probably a week later Goldy gets dinged, and no retaliation. It's like 'wait a minute.'
 
"Not that I don't take any of our guys from a lesser standpoint, but if Goldy's getting hit, it's an eye for an eye, somebody's going down or somebody's going to get jackknifed."

 

[rembrat]

 
Apologies for the misinterpretation - it was not intentional.
 
Anyway, my personal opinion of Towers is not favorable.  He spent the vast majority of his career in San Diego where his most notable accomplishment appears to be the facilitation of  PED use by Ken Caminiti and others.  (Towers admitted after Caminiti died that he suspected abuse but said nothing. Points for honesty, I guess, but that's about it.)
 
Since he escaped San Diego, he does not seem to have accomplished anything, so no, I would not characterize him as one of the smarter GMs in baseball.  And the article that is linked in this thread does not paint him in an especially flattering light, so I really have no reason to change my opinion.

 
No love for his 2011 turnaround of the Diamondbacks? 

 

[Average Reds]

 
No love for his 2011 turnaround of the Diamondbacks? 

 
2011 was a good season, but the Diamondbacks reverted to 81 wins in 2012 and 81 again this year.  So it's hard for me to see that as anything other than a one season anomaly in a bad division.
 
Keep in mind that this is also the man who made the following curious comments related to trading Justin Upton:
 
 

 
 

[Diamondbacks GM Kevin] Towers, though, did not dispute the perception that the Diamondbacks were trying to add "grinders," specifically citing Prado and one of the prospects in the deal, shortstop Nick Ahmed, as players who "fit the mold."
 
"That's the way Gibby played the game," Towers said. "Look at our coaching staff, that's the makeup of our coaching staff as well. That's how we won (the NL West) in 2011. Justin was part of the 2011 club.
 
"Different clubs like to look for different intangibles in players. We kind of like that grinding, gritty player – hard-nosed. I'm not saying that Justin isn't that type of guy … "

 

[rembrat]

He wants the players to fit the mold of his coaching staff so that everyone is on the same page it would seem. Not all that different than what Ben Cherington did when he made up the 2013 Red Sox, no? I see nothing above that I find questionable.

 

[DaubachmanTurnerOD]

It will be interesting to see what, if anything the Commissioner's office does with these quotes.  Nothing? A fine? Something more?
 
I certainly think they are grounds for some sort of discipline.  I think that any time a D'backs pitcher hits a batter next year they should be immediately ejected.  I know this  punishes the player more than perhaps it should, but it also punishes the organization, and I think the organization, courtesy of Kevin Towers, has lost the benefit of doubt.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Duke's been a great GM for a long time.  He's just impossible to deal with as a person.  But as an evaluator of talent, there's no doubting his ability.

 

[rembrat]

1. 18 years, no rings
2, Fires pitching coach (not that it really matters, but an above-average ex-pitcher, who supposedly knows what he;s doing) for not beaning batters.
3. talks about it.
 
I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Longevity does not necessarily equal quality.
 
is he better / smarter than any of these guys?
 
Hoyer/Epstein
Cherington
Duquette
Jocketty
Sabean
Beane
Daniels
Dombrowski
Cashman
Alderson
Huntington
Mozeliak
Friedman
Moore
Wren

 
My original statement was that Kevin Towers was one of the better or smarter GMs not that he was better or smarter than X. Those are two entirely different statements. You are entitled to your opinion but I would definitely include him in that group of GMs. And let's be honest, you're only taking this stance because of his recent comments. But the truth is that Kevin Towers has never made a deal where he was laughingly fleeced like say Sabean or severely crippled a franchise with bad FA signings like Epstein or Cashman have. And the 0 ringz argument is always silly but especially silly in this case considering the different markets and budgets these guys have to work with.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

He's one of the better GMs, except for all the other ones.
 
More seriously, I think it's fair to evaluate GMs by # of postseason appearances.  Getting to the tournament is more of a function of design; progression in the tournament is mainly luck.

 

[Idabomb333]

 
My original statement was that Kevin Towers was one of the better or smarter GMs not that he was better or smarter than X. Those are two entirely different statements. You are entitled to your opinion but I would definitely include him in that group of GMs. And let's be honest, you're only taking this stance because of his recent comments. But the truth is that Kevin Towers has never made a deal where he was laughingly fleeced like say Sabean or severely crippled a franchise with bad FA signings like Epstein or Cashman have. And the 0 ringz argument is always silly but especially silly in this case considering the different markets and budgets these guys have to work with.

Wait, what?  I have no opinion on Towers as a GM, but what does the bolded mean?  Are you saying you think he's better or smarter than some of the people in that list, but you're not sure which because you don't know the other GMs well enough?
 
That list is literally half of the GMs in baseball.  If he's not better or smarter than any of them, what does it mean to say that he's "one of the better or smarter GMs?"
 
Again, I don't think too much about relative GM intelligence and don't care about where Towers stacks up, personally.  I'm just really confused.

 

[rembrat]

I think Kate Upton is one of the better looking women to have been on the cover of SI.
 
In that statement did I say she was better looking than anyone in particular, you fucking idiots? 
 
And to DtTtB, I think KT is better than all the guys you left off your list.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

I think Kate Upton is one of the better looking women to have been on the cover of SI.
 
In that statement did I say she was better looking than anyone in particular, you fucking idiots? 
 
And to DtTtB, I think KT is better than all the guys you left off your list.

if half of the other women are better looking, then she isn't.

 

[soxhop411]

And its starting.
 

 
Tuesday on his weekly show broadcast on KTAR 620AM, Towers was asked about his comments earlier in the day about wanting the D-backs’ pitchers to own the inner half of the plate.
“But I think come Spring Training, it will be duly noted that it’s going to be an eye for an eye and we’re going to protect one another,” Towers said of what his message would be to the pitchers next spring. “If not, if you have options, there’s ways to get you out of here, and you don’t follow suit or you don’t feel comfortable doing it, you probably don’t belong in a Diamondbacks uniform.”

 
 
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/14/the-d-backs-werent-kidding-about-the-retaliation-thing/

On Wednesday, D-Backs first baseman Mark Trumbo was hit in the back by Rockies pitcher Tommy Kahnle in the top of the fourth inning. In the bottom half of the fourth, D-Backs pitcher Wade Miley threw at Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki, hitting him in the calf. As a result, Tulowitzki has been dealing with a deep calf bruise and pain in his fibula as well, and won’t play for another few days.
Manager Kirk Gibson denied that there was intent behind Miley’s errant pitch to Tulowitzki. Via Troy Renck of the Denver Post:
 
“It’s part of the game. It can happen in spring or during the regular season,” Gibson said. “I think one of the things we’ve focused on is using all quadrants of the plate. We’re not out there intentionally trying to hurt anybody. Nobody wants their guy to get hit and neither do we, but it’s part of the game.”

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Sandy Koufax didn't feel comfortable hitting batters.  The whole Marichal-Roseboro brawl started because Koufax wouldn't hit a Giants hitter after Marichal had hit a Dodger.  So, thinking outside the box, Roseboro threw the ball an inch from Marichal's head when throwing the ball back to Koufax, whereupon Marichal flipped out and hit Roseboro over the head with his bat.
 
Would Kevin Towers want to have Sandy Koufax on his team?  Jim Palmer also hit very very few batters.  Could he pitch for Kevin Towers?

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The problem here is less what Towers wants from his pitchers and more that he's making it a public issue.  I'm not a big fan of intentionally hitting batters in most cases.  Reasonable minds can disagree, but I think throwing at a hitter is usually the wrong decision.  I can see the other side of that argument, though, and don't think Towers is an idiot or a bad GM for wanting to create a culture in which his pitchers retaliate for their players being hit.  What he's done, though, is create a situation where any time they do retaliate, everyone in the world will know it was intentional and Gibson now has to stand in front of the press and be full of shit while the entire world knows he's full of shit.
 
By going public, he's made it harder for his players to do what he wants them to do.

 

[soxhop411]

This tweet seems to imply that Towers is gone?
“@nickpiecoro: Derrick Hall said Dbacks interviewed "a few" other candidates, some for the same type of position as Tony La Russa, others for GM.”

 

[soxhop411]

Matthew Pouliot ‏@matthewpouliot  5m
The Diamondbacks are winning by one run in the 7th and just loaded the bases by intentionally drilling Braun. I guess that was the priority.
 
Matthew Pouliot ‏@matthewpouliot  6m
And Jonathan Lucroy hits a grand slam. Beautiful.
 
KARMA~
 
Mike Axisa ‏@mikeaxisa  3m
D-Backs intentionally HBP Braun, Gibson pumps his fist, Lucroy hits go-ahead grand slam as next better is my favorite sequence of the year.
 
Steve Gilbert ‏@SteveGilbertMLB  20m
#Dbacks Evan Marshall was greeted in the dugout by high fives from all his teammates after hitting Braun.

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

Ya, more mickey mouse shit from Arizona.  Lohse beaned a Diamondback but you could tell by the way he and the catcher both immediately reacted that he didn't mean it and that they were concerned for the batter.  Later, an obvious offspeed pitch spins but doesn't break and goes up and in on the pitcher while he squares to bunt.
 
So, of course, the big bad Diamondbacks aren't going to let this accidental disrespecting stand and throw not once, but twice, at Ryan Braun.
 
The really poor part was the big fist bumps Kirk Gibson had for his ejected pitcher when he came to the dugout.  Arizona is just a joke from top to bottom.

 

[jon abbey]

Alex Cora ‏@ac13alex  16m
I really don't get the D'Backs way

 

[Zedia]

I didn't see the replay of Gibson fist-pumping, but seeing one of the Brewers coaches exaggeratedly applauding Marshall was pretty awesome.

 

[MakMan44]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-diamondbacks-grit-vs-win-expectancy/

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
Gibson giving Marshall the fist bump.
 
When you're 30-44, I guess winning the battle of the unwritten rules trumps wining real baseball games.
 
Gibson and Towers are total assholes.

 

[Stevie1der]

I have kind of a dumb question related to this. When a pitcher hits a batter by accident, does he ever verbally apologize to the batter. I often see body language indicating frustration that the pitch did not go where it was intended to go, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a direct acknowledgement of error to the batter. Seems like more if that would help settle down some of these situations.

 

[cromulence]

I have kind of a dumb question related to this. When a pitcher hits a batter by accident, does he ever verbally apologize to the batter. I often see body language indicating frustration that the pitch did not go where it was intended to go, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a direct acknowledgement of error to the batter. Seems like more if that would help settle down some of these situations.

 
I've definitely seen that, sometimes with body language (hand(s) up, making a face that indicates concern/regret) and sometimes verbally. 

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Lucroy is much more dangerous than Braun both on the season and for the last several games.  You can be gung holier than thou in at least a marginally intelligent way.  This wasn't it.

 

[soxhop411]

Diamondbacks are a damn joke of a franchise, Can you suspend a GM and coach?

 

[soxhop411]

Eye on Baseball ‏@EyeOnBaseball  8m
Diamondbacks plunk Andrew McCutchen, Randall Delgado immediately ejected. Least surprising movement of the night
 
 
Joe Sheehan ‏@joe_sheehan  1m
"We're a .430 team that just wet itself in the seventh and eighth, but at least we got revenge for a clear accident." #Diamondbacks
 
D'backs drill McCutchen in the back, clear retribution for Goldschmidt's fractured hand.

 

[soxhop411]

Cindy Brunson ‏@CindyBrunsonAZ  37s
When asked for his reaction to Delgado plunking McCutchen #Dbacks @23KGibby said the pitch gotta away.
 
 
Are you fucking kidding me Kirk Gibson!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Did he actually say "gotta away"?

 

[Brianish]

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was autocorrect.

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/nickpiecoro/status/495988861852721152
 

Gibson on Goldschmidt: "Realistically, it's eight weeks. So he's done."

 

[sdiaz1]

What a piece of shit franchise. They are like the Rays in all the worst possible ways; ugly uniforms, obnoxious coach, holier than thou persecution complex, horrible fan bases, and they play in a state that never ceases to be a cesspool for some of the dumbest laws and social movements in the country .

 

[AbbyNoho]

Is there any rational person on the planet who think Goldschmidt's hand being broken was intentional? You don't intentionally hit people on the hand. I don't think it's even possible to intentionally hit them there.
 
'Retaliation' for this isn't even part of the unwritten rules, it's being a petty piece of shit who can't handle that sometimes bad things happen. There isn't always someone to blame. 

 

[Spacemans Bong]

If want to play Kirk Gibson and find someone to blame, let's blame Goldschmidt for his hand being over the plate. You watch the video and it's not that far out of the strikezone.

 

[Rasputin]

Imagine if the Diamondback, Rays, and Orioles all managed to tie for something and the all had to play a round robin playoff in Keith Olbermann 's back yard.

It might be a pretentious douchenozzle singularity.

 

[Jaylach]

Is there any rational person on the planet who think Goldschmidt's hand being broken was intentional? You don't intentionally hit people on the hand. I don't think it's even possible to intentionally hit them there.
 
'Retaliation' for this isn't even part of the unwritten rules, it's being a petty piece of shit who can't handle that sometimes bad things happen. There isn't always someone to blame. 

 
Do you intentionally hit people on the spine? That's right where McCutchen got hit...
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/v35038931/pitari-delgado-hits-mccutchen-gets-tossed/?c_id=mlb

 

[Average Reds]

 
Do you intentionally hit people on the spine? That's right where McCutchen got hit...
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/v35038931/pitari-delgado-hits-mccutchen-gets-tossed/?c_id=mlb

 
Andrew's point was poorly (or perhaps too specifically) phrased, but I don't think anyone claimed that the Pirates were throwing at Goldschmidt when he broke his hand.  The Diamondbacks were clearly trying to hit McCutchen by throwing right at the core of his torso. 
 
You throw at a batter, you take responsibility for the consequences whether you meant to hit a specific body part or not.

 

[Jaylach]

 
Andrew's point was poorly (or perhaps too specifically) phrased, but I don't think anyone claimed that the Pirates were throwing at Goldschmidt when he broke his hand.  The Diamondbacks were clearly trying to hit McCutchen by throwing right at the core of his torso. 
 
You throw at a batter, you take responsibility for the consequences whether you meant to hit a specific body part or not.

 
Oh, I know his point. I was really just being a smart ass as (like you point out) he was pretty specific with where it's not okay to hit someone. My point was, it's also not okay to hit them in the spine. If you can't hit a guy in the ass, don't throw at 'em.