Kevin Durant Sweepstakes

Jimbodandy

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Another explanation could be less hate for Durant and more negative sentiment around trading a beloved star in Brown.
I mean, this part should be obvious, shouldn't it? For all of the "don't let Xander go" talk on the main board, you'd think that he has a couple of MVPs under his belt. Sometimes people just love players and want them to stay here forever.

If someone started a poll on a hypothetical trade of Uncle Al, White, and 6 picks/swaps for KD, the result would be like 99 to 1 for.
 

pjheff

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If someone started a poll on a hypothetical trade of Uncle Al, White, and 6 picks/swaps for KD, the result would be like 99 to 1 for.
It's unfortunate that the Nets traded away all of their own picks and see no value in tanking, instead demanding players who can help immediately. I wonder if Ainge would entertain sending Mitchell to the C's for a package built around Horford's expiring contract and those 6 picks/swaps.
 

JM3

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It's unfortunate that the Nets traded away all of their own picks and see no value in tanking, instead demanding players who can help immediately. I wonder if Ainge would entertain sending Mitchell to the C's for a package built around Horford's expiring contract and those 6 picks/swaps.
The Knicks can trump whatever the Celtics could offer for Mitchell, in terms of # of picks, quality of picks, & matching salary.
 

snowmanny

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The Knicks can trump whatever the Celtics could offer for Mitchell, in terms of # of picks, quality of picks, & matching salary.
Of course Danny hates the Knicks.

I don’t know that but I assume it is true. I am pretty sure they tried to kill him in 1984. Or vice-versa.
 

benhogan

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Just don’t see any other landing spots besides the Celtics, if true. This may be what the Nets want.
NOLA was my odds-on favorite since:
1. NOLA has a plethora of attractive draft picks + a young stud not on a rookie max in Ingram + a useful salary to match (Nance)
2. NOLA has NBA vets like CJ/Valanciunas that need to win now.
3. Griffith would know how to handle a special player like KD
4. NOLA has warm weather. It's also a cool/low-key city for a sensitive guy like KD to hide out and win
5. Sending KD to the WC seemed like the best way to not have this blow up in the Nets faces like BOS/TOR potentially does

I guess the Nets pretend everything is A-Ok, hope KD shows up/ballz (like he has always done), Kyrie plays hard for his next contract and Ben Simmons tries to prove all the doubters wrong. There is a world where this happens and they turn the pundits on their heads, which all 3 players would love.
 

GB5

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Every other team involved in this is unwilling to trade their Jaylen equivalent piece. It begs the question, why are we willing to include Jaylen? Is there any chance Brooklyn gets to camp and either KD holds out or is such a relentless pain in the ass that Brooklyn says “he can’t stay in this building for another moment” and unloads him with Boston making the best offer short of including Jaylen.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It's not really clear we are willing to trade Jaylen.

As to your second question, I don't think Celtics best non-Jaylen offer has much chance of winning the bidding, does it? TL, Smart, a ton of picks probably doesn't get you there...and even if somehow it would, that feels like too much defensive identity. TL/White/Picks....if you are Nets, do you really prefer that to (say) Herro and Robinson and similar (not quite equal picks)? or all the Knicks picks, with some actual young players attached? Even if Durant says "Boston or bust" feels like you need Jaylen in the deal so Nets don't just test his bluff. Wish it were othrewise, but this is the cost of blowing a bunch of those 1sts...there is not enough in the cabinet for such a big addition without Jaylen, imo
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's not really clear we are willing to trade Jaylen.

As to your second question, I don't think Celtics best non-Jaylen offer has much chance of winning the bidding, does it? TL, Smart, a ton of picks probably doesn't get you there...and even if somehow it would, that feels like too much defensive identity. TL/White/Picks....if you are Nets, do you really prefer that to (say) Herro and Robinson and similar (not quite equal picks)? or all the Knicks picks, with some actual young players attached? Even if Durant says "Boston or bust" feels like you need Jaylen in the deal so Nets don't just test his bluff. Wish it were othrewise, but this is the cost of blowing a bunch of those 1sts...there is not enough in the cabinet for such a big addition without Jaylen, imo
NBCSports reported TL was not available. https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/08/10/kevin-durant-reportedly-now-sees-boston-as-desired-landing-spot/

If BOS isn't trading JT, JB, and TL, would BRK really want Smart and White?
 

BaseballJones

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Every other team involved in this is unwilling to trade their Jaylen equivalent piece. It begs the question, why are we willing to include Jaylen? Is there any chance Brooklyn gets to camp and either KD holds out or is such a relentless pain in the ass that Brooklyn says “he can’t stay in this building for another moment” and unloads him with Boston making the best offer short of including Jaylen.
Yeah Boston might be able to say, you know what? Nobody else seems to want to give you that so we won’t either.

Of course that approach comes with risks.
 

RedOctober3829

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Shams reporting that the Grizzlies have made contact with the Nets on Durant -

View: https://twitter.com/mikekadlick/status/1561706179415384066?s=20&t=qq5Hw3WtRpd-bB950-SB2Q

“A new team has shown interest in Durant: the Memphis Grizzlies…
Fresh off a 56-win season, the Grizzlies have made new inquiries to the Nets about Durant… Memphis has 5 first-round draft picks available to utilize in a trade as well as young players…”
If a package centered around Jaylen Brown isn't enough for the Nets, why would Brooklyn accept anything less than a package centered around Ja Morant? Dillon Brooks, Bane, and JJJ are nice pieces, but don't measure up to JB as a centerpiece to a deal.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It's from Shams, so it is most likely a player/agent-side leak....which is consistent with what several of us have suggested we'd see from Durant to try to generate some momentum. That is to say, just because it is out there doesn't mean it's realistic or would happen.

To me, there's a couple things to work through in terms of probability...

1) We don't know how firm (or not) Durant has been wtih Nets about his willingness to be back. That greatly impacts how motivated Nets are (or are not)
2) We also don't know for sure whether Nets are assuming they will trad Kyrie and/or Simmons as well. So we don't know (for sure, at least) whether they are trying to reload or simply blow it up even without their picks. That greatly impacts what kind of package they want.
3) I don't think we really know what Celtics offered or are willing to do. I can imagine they said something like "if it's Jaylen and White for Durant we'd have a pretty serious discussion at our end" and they have not even decided they'd do that. I would not, personally, assume that Jaylen is truly available.
4) Memphis can offer an interesting mix of win-now guys and picks. There are not many teams who can do that, even though I agree Memphis cannot offer a star. But if you are Nets, without a lot of your own picks, there's something to be said for other picks + useful players in the next couple years.

Several of the stronger writers pegged Memphis initially as a candidate, and they are also a team where getting 4 years of Durant is a very unique opporutnity---absent some stud player happening to have been born there they likely are not in the runnign for this caliber of player unless they draft them. So they may be willing to pay more than bigger market teams, and they also hvae a lot of assets. That is to say, I fully buy this could be a serious option.
 

BigSoxFan

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Complicating things a bit is that JJJ is out 4-6 months with a stress fracture in his foot. This is after missing basically an entire season in 2020-2021. He did play almost every game last year but his injury list is starting to grow. But he's still only 22 years-old. Bane is obviously a very nice young player (ugh...) so if you combine JJJ/Bane/filler with some picks, I could see the Nets pulling the trigger on a deal like that, especially given the greater years of control for JJJ/Bane.
 

RorschachsMask

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View: https://twitter.com/stevejones20/status/1561712983679574018?s=20&t=VUDak_mjK6E6n6Tf7gBEew

Shams also said this

The New Orleans Pelicans inquired with the Nets on June 30 as well but deemed All-Star Brandon Ingram as untouchable, sources said. Also in the past month, the Atlanta Hawks offered John Collins, De’Andre Hunter and a draft pick for Durant, according to sources.
Among the interested teams, the Celtics have been viewed across the league as the clear-cut answer as the team that has the ingredients to make a deal with Brooklyn happen. For now, Boston has not included guard Marcus Smart or center Robert Williams in a proposal, sources said. The Celtics have up to three first-round picks available to trade to Brooklyn. When Brooklyn rejected Boston’s offer last month, the Nets countered by requesting Brown, Smart, draft picks and potentially one more rotation player, according to sources.

So yes, Boston has the necessary pieces and Brooklyn has listened, but a gap exists.

For the Celtics, there’s a careful balance to improving the roster and maintaining their current status as a championship contender. President of Basketball Operations Brad Stevens has patiently and deftly continued to strengthen the Celtics’ roster following their NBA Finals berth, adding Malcolm Brogdon and Danilo Gallinari this offseason.

Now, will Boston step up to the Nets’ asking price to add a potential missing piece that has become available in a manner that has rarely happened in NBA history? We’ll have to wait and see.

However, no one yet has met Brooklyn’s high price tag of an All-Star, other high-level players and draft picks — and conversations with those three front-runners have been non-existent recently.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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Collins/Hunter/pick would not even get you Jaylen Brown, much less Brown + multiple assets.

So, feels to me the Nets ask is still currently well above the market's willingess to offer doesn't it? And I'd guess that is pretty much where Nets-Celtics discussion sits, and time is on the Celtics side. I say that as someone who doesn't want that deal at all, but that is how I see it
 

BigSoxFan

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Collins/Hunter/pick would not even get you Jaylen Brown, much less Brown + multiple assets.

So, feels to me the Nets ask is still currently well above the market's willingess to offer doesn't it? And I'd guess that is pretty much where Nets-Celtics discussion sits, and time is on the Celtics side. I say that as someone who doesn't want that deal at all, but that is how I see it
Agreed. The Nets don't appear to be changing their position and nobody is going to meet the current (rumored) ask. Either they lower their demands and make a deal or the league will let them deal with a KD staring contest.
 

the moops

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If a package centered around Jaylen Brown isn't enough for the Nets, why would Brooklyn accept anything less than a package centered around Ja Morant? Dillon Brooks, Bane, and JJJ are nice pieces, but don't measure up to JB as a centerpiece to a deal.
Hmm. I think I would sign up for a JJJ and Bane for Jaylen Brown deal :duckshead:
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Appears that both those dudes are on a far better trajectory than Jaylen was
Except JB was 3 years younger than Bane when he came into the league. So it’s certainly not apples to apples. Bane’s second season far more impressive than JB’s seasons at 20 & 21 years old. But he is not performing better than Jaylen at the same age. Plus he’s a catch & shoot dude more than anything else but he’s a sniper for sure.

edited for correction on Jackson. He came into the league very young as well. I think JJJ has a big future especially because of his defense.
 
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BigSoxFan

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Just curious, but how many years of control are there on Bane and JJJ as compared to the two for Brown?
4 for JJJ. Bane isn’t even an RFA until 2024. It’s why I’d be kind of surprised if Memphis actually did this. They’re under no pressure to win now and have a nice young core around Ja.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Just curious, but how many years of control are there on Bane and JJJ as compared to the two for Brown?
4 years for JJJ and I think basically 6 for Bane—1 more year, then team option, then his RFA year which would likely result in a 4 year deal.
 

EvilEmpire

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4 years for JJJ and I think basically 6 for Bane—1 more year, then team option, then his RFA year which would likely result in a 4 year deal.
Thanks.

I dunno. I think Brooklyn is most likely going to be a tire fire this year, especially after they trade Durant, no matter who they get back. One year of Brown after that as compared to more years of control for two lesser, but good young players, and probably more picks than Boston will offer, plus Durant going to the Western Conference doesn't sound terrible.

I just don't think Brooklyn is going to accomplish much with Brown and not much else over the next two years. It's probably going to take longer than that just to sort through the rubble of Durant/Kyrie/Simmons and rebuild. And I don't think they can count on resigning Brown.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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4 for JJJ. Bane isn’t even an RFA until 2024. It’s why I’d be kind of surprised if Memphis actually did this. They’re under no pressure to win now and have a nice young core around Ja.
Both players are good but if you can transmogrify them into Durant to play alongside Ja, you do it.

Others here including yourself have pointed this out over the years - winning in the NBA is all about accumulating as much top end talent as possible. Frankly, between Boston and Memphis, I think the latter is more motivated to pay up given where they are in their development.

I wonder if Cs brain trust is likely losing sleep for even being forced to contemplate a trade that has a pretty binary expected outcome - win another banner in the next season or two or watch this current roster fall apart - and maybe hoping that someone else takes them out of the decision.

Putting it another way, even though we are discussing Kevin Durant, there are almost no realistic trades for him that are kind of no- brainers in 2022. The outgoing talent will almost certainly be substantial and the draft capital makes it pretty levered in the sense that the acquiring team neds to win *now*.

To quote some twentieth/twenty-first century poets stakes is high.
 

JakeRae

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Except JB was 3 years younger than Bane when he came into the league. So it’s certainly not apples to apples. Bane’s second season far more impressive than JB’s seasons at 20 & 21 years old. But he is not performing better than Jaylen at the same age. Plus he’s a catch & shoot dude more than anything else but he’s a sniper for sure.

edited for correction on Jackson. He came into the league very young as well. I think JJJ has a big future especially because of his defense.
That’s true, but we can adjust for it.

54561

The fact remains that both players are off to better starts than Jaylen’s start when measured by age too. This also matches my sense that, absent injuries (a meaningful caveat), JJJ would have comparable trade value to Jaylen and preferring him is quite reasonable. Bane, I’m less sold on as I think his ceiling remains meaningfully below the other two players even given the great growth and performance of his early career.
 

TrapperAB

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I’m a total JJJ fanboy, but shouldn’t his value take a significant hit when he’s out with a foot injury? And missed most of a season with a torn meniscus?
 

PedroKsBambino

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Speaking as the resident Hawks fan here: HAHAHAHAHAHA
As the Hawks you'd need to put in more, I realize, which was the point (not sure I see how you'd do that post-Murray trade anyway). Brown is a couple tiers better than either of them: Athletic had Brown in 3A, meaning a top-25 guy and Collins and Hunter in 4B...which means they are in the 60-90 range overall. That's a very big gap----Smart, Horford, and TL all are in tier 4A, so in between Brown and Collins or Hunter. White, Brogdon, Collins, and Hunter are all in the same tier to give a sense of how big the difference is between Jaylen and Collins/Hunter. Other guys in the 4B tier are Porzingis/Tobias Harris (to me, those are worse contracts than Collins) and also young guys--Halliburton, Cade, Simons....so there's lots of different profiles in there.

So that's the players; contract-wise, you get two value years from Jaylen and then you have to max him---which he's worth, but not a ton of value at a max deal in my view. Hunter is a FA next summer, which means one year of control then a somewhat risky contract given the market and his injury issues, though I do think he has remaining upside; Collins has 4/$101 mil left which is good level of control and not terrible money (though likely overpaid until new CBA). I'm bigger on Collins than NBA in general seems to be (as you know, he's been on the block much of the last two years) but that is not a super-value contract. So, my quick assessment is for big-market teams who have a shot at FAs the contract side doesn't help the value side a whole lot.

You love your young Hawks, I know, but as we saw with Reddish this year the league just doesn't value "young and pretty good" quite as much as you might think.
 
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As the Hawks you'd need to put in more, I realize, which was the point (not sure I see how you'd do that post-Murray trade anyway). Brown is a couple tiers better than either of them: Athletic had Brown in 3A, meaning a top-25 guy and Collins and Hunter in 4B...which means they are in the 60-90 range overall. That's a very big gap----Smart, Horford, and TL all are in tier 4A, so in between Brown and Collins or Hunter. White, Brogdon, Collins, and Hunter are all in the same tier to give a sense of how big the difference is between Jaylen and Collins/Hunter. Other guys in the 4B tier are Porzingis/Tobias Harris (to me, those are worse contracts than Collins) and also young guys--Halliburton, Cade, Simons....so there's lots of different profiles in there.

So that's the players; contract-wise, you get two value years from Jaylen and then you have to max him---which he's worth, but not a ton of value at a max deal in my view. Hunter is a FA next summer, which means one year of control then a somewhat risky contract given the market and his injury issues, though I do think he has remaining upside; Collins has 4/$101 mil left which is good level of control and not terrible money (though likely overpaid until new CBA). I'm bigger on Collins than NBA in general seems to be (as you know, he's been on the block much of the last two years) but that is not a super-value contract. So, my quick assessment is for big-market teams who have a shot at FAs the contract side doesn't help the value side a whole lot.

You love your young Hawks, I know, but as we saw with Reddish this year the league just doesn't value "young and pretty good" quite as much as you might think.
Oh, I was laughing at that being the proposed offer for Durant - nothing to do with Jaylen. That was a John McEnroe offer: surely they cannot be serious.

(FWIW, if the Hawks plan to acquire Jaylen, I think they would wait for free agency.)
 

EvilEmpire

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I’m a total JJJ fanboy, but shouldn’t his value take a significant hit when he’s out with a foot injury? And missed most of a season with a torn meniscus?
I think so. And in this case, I think that significant hit makes a deal like JJJ, Bane and picks a little more reasonable for Memphis. Heightened Injury concerns going forward would be some risk that Brooklyn takes on, but I don't think JJJ missing time next season is really that much of an issue. The years of control beyond that could be valuable.

Who knows if it is an offer that Memphis will actually make, but it seems like it could be one in the right ballpark depending on how Brooklyn sees the next couple of years going.
 
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BigSoxFan

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I think so. And in this case, I think that significant hit makes a deal like JJJ, Bane and picks a little more reasonable for Memphis. Heightened Injury concerns going forward would be some risk that Brooklyn takes on, but I don't think JJJ missing time next season is really that much of an issue. The years of control beyond that could be valuable.

Who knows if it is an offer that Memphis will actually make, but it seems like it could be one in the right ballpark depending on how Brooklyn sees the next couple of years going.
Both guys can shoot the 3, which is a necessity if you have Simmons on your team. If you add a few picks, that’s a deal you can sell. Really depends on how they value JJJ and discount his injury problems.
 

TrapperAB

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Both guys can shoot the 3, which is a necessity if you have Simmons on your team. If you add a few picks, that’s a deal you can sell. Really depends on how they value JJJ and discount his injury problems.
JJJ shot .319 from three last year... a far cry from the cromulent .359 and .394 of his first two years (I'll ignore the SSS .283 before he got injured two seasons ago). Which is the real JJJ moving forward? Just another question mark, to go with the foot.
 

Jimbodandy

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JJJ shot .319 from three last year... a far cry from the cromulent .359 and .394 of his first two years (I'll ignore the SSS .283 before he got injured two seasons ago). Which is the real JJJ moving forward? Just another question mark, to go with the foot.
His free throw shooting is still excellent. He's probably not a .394 shooter, but I doubt that he's .319. Hard to tell this early of course, but it's likely something in the neighborhood of league average IMO (which isn't bad).
 

Smokey Joe

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Both players are good but if you can transmogrify them into Durant to play alongside Ja, you do it.

Others here including yourself have pointed this out over the years - winning in the NBA is all about accumulating as much top end talent as possible. Frankly, between Boston and Memphis, I think the latter is more motivated to pay up given where they are in their development.

I wonder if Cs brain trust is likely losing sleep for even being forced to contemplate a trade that has a pretty binary expected outcome - win another banner in the next season or two or watch this current roster fall apart - and maybe hoping that someone else takes them out of the decision.

Putting it another way, even though we are discussing Kevin Durant, there are almost no realistic trades for him that are kind of no- brainers in 2022. The outgoing talent will almost certainly be substantial and the draft capital makes it pretty levered in the sense that the acquiring team neds to win *now*.

To quote some twentieth/twenty-first century poets stakes is high.
I doubt very much that anyone on the Celts is losing sleep over “trade for KD and probably win a banner in the next couple years” versus “ Don’t trade for KD and probably win a banner in the next couple years” and I think that the idea that trading for KD will make the current roster fall apart is overblown.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I doubt very much that anyone on the Celts is losing sleep over “trade for KD and probably win a banner in the next couple years” versus “ Don’t trade for KD and probably win a banner in the next couple years” and I think that the idea that trading for KD will make the current roster fall apart is overblown.
Entirely fair. I have zero clue what the Celtics brain trust actually thinks and others here may have a much better handle.
 

Jimbodandy

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Entirely fair. I have zero clue what the Celtics brain trust actually thinks and others here may have a much better handle.
I don't think that anyone does, brother. We're speculating. And the media is either a) speculating, or b) relaying the information that one of the participants wants out there. We're all filtering through guesswork and propaganda.
 

wilked

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Separately they also put a statement out that they have a local historic bridge for sale, will take all reasonable offers
 

Jimbodandy

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Maybe ownership and the entire braintrust genuflecting for KD was enough to satisfy his ego. The alternative to this being real is that Marks himself thinks that he's about to be whacked and is throwing a hail mary.

Either seems possible to me. Gotta love hoop drama.
 

nattysez

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I don't think an org can put out a statement like this and then have Woj report in a week that teams are reporting that KD is still on the block. There's a difference between a Shams report that "sources say KD is staying" and an official statement from the team.
 

Ed Hillel

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Hmmm, I don’t see Kevin Durant’s signature anywhere on that statement. Is this their version of his trade demand leak?
 

Auger34

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Hmmm, I don’t see Kevin Durant’s signature anywhere on that statement. Is this their version of his trade demand leak?
His signature is “The Boardroom” graphic at the bottom there. That’s his and Kleiman’s company