It is true that Martínez was mostly done at 33. He did not quite get to 3,000 innings for his career. The fact he won 219 games (against 100 losses) probably cost him a few Hall of Fame votes — he didn’t appear on 49 ballots — even though it is really unimportant. It is true, Martínez did not have the huge numerical careers of his great contemporaries Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux.
But at his best, he was better than they were, I think. I’ve said it before; if the Devil ever gives me one pitcher to play for my soul, I’m taking Martínez circa 1999 and 2000. He wasn’t just the greatest pitcher I ever saw. He was the one pitcher who you knew would damn well move the devil off the plate.
Claire then traded Martínez to Montreal for Delino DeShields.
What the heck happened? What makes teams trade away once-in-a-lifetime stars like Martínez? For the Dodgers, it came down to a couple of things. One, they really wanted a second baseman. They had made an offer during the season to their regular second baseman, Jody Reed, but they couldn’t reach an agreement (it didn’t go well for Reed either, who became a free agent and signed for a huge pay cut with Milwaukee).
“If he had said ‘yes’ to our offer,” Claire said of Reed, “we would not have traded for a second baseman.”
Doing some research on Jody Reed...he was drafted 5 times! Twice in 82 (January and June drafts), 83 June, 84 June and then 92 Expansion Draft (Rockies...I know this is cheating a little bit).Yeah, the Jody Reed part was news to me, too. Funny thing is, Reed was my favorite player growing up, my dad still has pictures of me sporting my Medicine Shoppe jersey with number 3 on it.
I think I appreciate him even more, now.
Reed's biggest claim to infamy was rejecting a three-year $7.8M deal from the Dodgers and winding with a $350,000 deal with the Brewers.Doing some research on Jody Reed...he was drafted 5 times! Twice in 82 (January and June drafts), 83 June, 84 June and then 92 Expansion Draft (Rockies...I know this is cheating a little bit).
The Google says that there was a player (Matt Harrington) drafted 5 straight years in the amateur draft. 2000 Baseball America High School Player of the Year.
2000- Colorado- 1st Round, 7th overall. Final offer was 4 million. He wanted 4.95
2001- San Diego- 2nd Round, 58th overall. Final offer was 1.2 million. Boras is now his agent and he wants 2.4 million.
2002- TB- 13th Round, 374 overall. Offered up to 200,000.
2003- Cincinnati- 24th Round, 711 overall. No real money offered.
2004- Yankees- 36th Round, 1,089 overall. No offer, as he hurt his shoulder.
Soring training invitee for the Cubs in 2007, but was released in March.
In 2009, according to an Outside The Lines segment, he was making $11.50 an hour at Costco.
What do Joe Morgan and Manny Ramirez have in common?Guessing Joe Morgan off the board tomorrow at #23.
How about Ralph Kiner and Willie Stargell? Both played LF for the Pirates and had an OPS+ of 186.Well, also Joe Morgan was a great defensive 2B and Manny was a DH who played the OF.
The thing about someone not on my list cracking the remaining 22 (Pujols at #23 today) is that that would mean one of the guys I listed is not even in the top 100, and that seems unlikely.It wouldn't shock me if Joe included one more Negro Leagues player, perhaps instead of Lefty Grove. There's some really good ones including Martin Dihigo, Ray Dandridge, Mule Suttles, Turkey Stearnes and Judy Johnson.
I'm completely baffled as to what your specific point is about Kiner and Stargell, but just for accuracy's sake, Kiner in 1949 did have a higher WAR than Stargell in 1973, though just barely if you use FG's version.How about Ralph Kiner and Willie Stargell? Both played LF for the Pirates and had an OPS+ of 186.
1949--.310/.432/.658/1.089--Kiner (Forbes Field-grass
1973--.299/.392/.646/1.038--Stargell (Three Rivers Stadium-Tartan Turf and sliding pits*)
Unfortunately, I dan't don't have two players from this sample who played for the same team in the same park; however, Kiner did have a dWAR for 1950 of -1.1 while Stargell had a dWAR of -0.4, which might suggest that if they were equal fielders then Kiner would have had a higher WAR than Stargell. One could choose other values of WAR and restrict the positions played using bb-ref's Play Index and probably find matching pairs who played for the same club in the same park close to the same time. I'm not in favor of formulae that attempt to define the whole of a baseball player in one number.
*no dirt base baths, just dirt surrounding the bases.
Either Morgan or Frank I think, if not Grove.Yeah, it is hard to see any of those names left off the list entirely. Someone above mentioned Grove, but Lefty Grove is easily one of the best pitchers ever. He is third all-time in pitching black ink and sixth in JAWS.
Career: 300-141 (23rd), 3.06 ERA, 2266 SO (59th), P, HOF in 1947, 1931 AL MVP, 6xAllStar, Athletics/RedSox 1925-1941, t:L, 9x ERA Leader, born in MD 1900, died 1975www.baseball-reference.com
Grove is really underrated by today's standards. He pitched in a huge hitting era, but I think some people look at his stats and kind of gloss over them because he pitched so long ago you might assume it the deadball era. Only Pedro has a higher career adjusted ERA+, and Grove threw more than 1,000 more innings than Pedro. (Kershaw and DeGrom also rate higher, but those will likely drop as their careers wind down.)You guys were right. Grove today at 22. And Joe makes a compelling case for him being considered the best pitcher ever.