JB has called him that for awhile."Big Deuce"? That is not how that works
This might have been around the time of those Steve Nash/Mike D'Antoni 7 seconds or less Suns teams that were a blast to watch, I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that caught his attention at that age.What's the deal with Phoenix?
What's the deal with Phoenix?
Tatum would have been in 4th grade during the 2007-8 season. That was the end of the "7 seconds" run, with Shawn Marion being traded midseason for Shaq, and D'Antoni leaving for New York after the playoffsThis might have been around the time of those Steve Nash/Mike D'Antoni 7 seconds or less Suns teams
Rodney Rogers?Trivia time: without looking it up, which former Celtics was used as salary filler and traded to Miami with Shawn Marion to match salaries for Shaq?
atkins?Tatum would have been in 4th grade during the 2007-8 season. That was the end of the "7 seconds" run, with Shawn Marion being traded midseason for Shaq, and D'Antoni leaving for New York after the playoffs
Of course, if Tatum was going to be inspired by the great teams of that time, the Eastern Conference champ that year was also pretty good...
Trivia time: without looking it up, which former Celtics was used as salary filler and traded to Miami with Shawn Marion to match salaries for Shaq?
Raef?Tatum would have been in 4th grade during the 2007-8 season. That was the end of the "7 seconds" run, with Shawn Marion being traded midseason for Shaq, and D'Antoni leaving for New York after the playoffs
Of course, if Tatum was going to be inspired by the great teams of that time, the Eastern Conference champ that year was also pretty good...
Trivia time: without looking it up, which former Celtics was used as salary filler and traded to Miami with Shawn Marion to match salaries for Shaq?
Wow I didn't have the faintest. Great trivia question.Trivia time: without looking it up, which former Celtics was used as salary filler and traded to Miami with Shawn Marion to match salaries for Shaq?
I don't think Boston had any intentions of drafting Jackson #1 (which was what Ainge said, that the guy they wanted would last until #3). I'm fairly certain that Ainge's interest in JJ was as a fallback plan in case the Lakers or Sixers came to their senses.No wonder Tatum was expecting and hoping for the Suns. Ryan McDonough smugly encouraging Josh Jackson to avoid the Celtics instead of Tatum might have averted Jayson becoming a Sun, Laker, and prophet.
But then he just wouldn't have done the #1 for #3 pick trade, right? If you're going to have pick #1, you gotta get your guy.I don't think Boston had any intentions of drafting Jackson #1 (which was what Ainge said, that the guy they wanted would last until #3). I'm fairly certain that Ainge's interest in JJ was as a fallback plan in case the Lakers or Sixers came to their senses.
I was thinking more, what if McDonaugh had fixated on Tatum instead of Jackson and convinced Tatum to not show?I don't think Boston had any intentions of drafting Jackson #1 (which was what Ainge said, that the guy they wanted would last until #3). I'm fairly certain that Ainge's interest in JJ was as a fallback plan in case the Lakers or Sixers came to their senses.
Right, but his exact quote at the time was "We believe the guy we want will still be there at three." So my assumption is that his interest in Jackson was due to his lack of interest in either guard.But then he just wouldn't have done the #1 for #3 pick trade, right? If you're going to have pick #1, you gotta get your guy.
Marcus Banks?Tatum would have been in 4th grade during the 2007-8 season. That was the end of the "7 seconds" run, with Shawn Marion being traded midseason for Shaq, and D'Antoni leaving for New York after the playoffs
Of course, if Tatum was going to be inspired by the great teams of that time, the Eastern Conference champ that year was also pretty good...
Trivia time: without looking it up, which former Celtics was used as salary filler and traded to Miami with Shawn Marion to match salaries for Shaq?
Rodney Rogers?
atkins?
All good guessesRaef?
Marcus Banks?
Yes.....
Was Fultz really considered that much of a Slam dunk BPA?
Yeah no matter what I hear, I'll always be convinced that Ainge had Tatum and Fultz graded pretty closely, to the point where he would've been fine with either. There's even an argument that he thought Fultz was the better player, but Tatum plus the future 1st had more value than Fultz alone.My personal belief is that Ainge may felt like Tatum was a better player than Fultz, but I also believe that he must have thought that Fultz was still a good pick at #3. To put it another way, if Philly did take JT, I think Ainge would have been perfectly happy taking Fultz at #3 and felt like he got a really good player. Knowing then what we know now, trading #1 would have been much, much too risky given the eventual gap between Tatum and Fultz.
Considering how quickly Danny moved the pick after that workout, I’m pretty confident Danny had no worries about being the guy who passed on Fultz, and the extra pick for the trade down was just gravy. He probably got comfortable Philly was only trading up for Fultz and the Lakers were taking Lonzo, so the risk of missing Tatum was small enough.By the end of the college season, nearly every evaluator in and around the league had Fultz ranked as the top prospect in the class. There were, however, a few exceptions. Danny Ainge, the president of basketball operations for the Boston Celtics, the team that happened to own the draft's No. 1 pick, was among them. “He thought Jayson Tatum”-a smooth 6-foot-8 forward out of Duke-“was the draft's best player,” said a confidant. Ainge had given Fultz a chance in early June, bringing him in for a private workout, only to watch Fultz struggle. "There was no music, the gym was quiet, and there were just all these older white men staring at him," said Keith Williams, a longtime Fultz mentor who also worked as his chief representative for the majority of the pre-draft process. “He was nervous.”
Yeah there were rumors that Ainge had people calling old coaches, school principals, etc. and gathering recon on all of the top guys and that the feedback on Fultz was lukewarm. Those rumors were out long before anyone knew who Fultz and Tatum were going to turn into. I read Fultz entirely wrong and was ripshit that we made the trade at the time, and I remember these rumors after the fact being somewhat soothing to read. It's not revisionist history. There were some questions around the draft about Fultz. They were unsourced, rumors, heresay, etc. It wasn't widespread and out there bigly, but it's not like people are retconning this entirely.It’s all revisionist history at this point, but this quote from Weitzman’s book “Tanking to the Top” seems pretty clear Ainge had a strong preference for Tatum over Fultz:
Considering how quickly Danny moved the pick after that workout, I’m pretty confident Danny had no worries about being the guy who passed on Fultz, and the extra pick for the trade down was just gravy. He probably got comfortable Philly was only trading up for Fultz and the Lakers were taking Lonzo, so the risk of missing Tatum was small enough.
So, maybe Ainge would have taken Jackson at #3 if Philly had taken Tatum? Either way, I think Ainge must have felt confident that there was going to be a good player available at #3, no matter what happened. If he didn't, he must really like to gamble because to trade the #1 and get stuck with a player at #3 you don't think is good is a pretty bad outcome.Yeah there were rumors that Ainge had people calling old coaches, school principals, etc. and gathering recon on all of the top guys and that the feedback on Fultz was lukewarm. Those rumors were out long before anyone knew who Fultz and Tatum were going to turn into. I read Fultz entirely wrong and was ripshit that we made the trade at the time, and I remember these rumors after the fact being somewhat soothing to read. It's not revisionist history. There were some questions around the draft about Fultz. They were unsourced, rumors, heresay, etc. It wasn't widespread and out there bigly, but it's not like people are retconning this entirely.
Yeah he was probably interested in Jackson just in case, that's the theory. But I also think that he had pretty solid intel that the top 2 were locked in and was seeing very small error bars.So, maybe Ainge would have taken Jackson at #3 if Philly had taken Tatum? Either way, I think Ainge must have felt confident that there was going to be a good player available at #3, no matter what happened. If he didn't, he must really like to gamble because to trade the #1 and get stuck with a player at #3 you don't think is good is a pretty bad outcome.
agreed. My view at time—and pretty sure there are posts on this back then—is Ainge had to have concluded Tatum was the guy (note—I am not enough of a scout to know…just saying, and said, Ainge had to feel that way)Yeah there were rumors that Ainge had people calling old coaches, school principals, etc. and gathering recon on all of the top guys and that the feedback on Fultz was lukewarm. Those rumors were out long before anyone knew who Fultz and Tatum were going to turn into. I read Fultz entirely wrong and was ripshit that we made the trade at the time, and I remember these rumors after the fact being somewhat soothing to read. It's not revisionist history. There were some questions around the draft about Fultz. They were unsourced, rumors, heresay, etc. It wasn't widespread and out there bigly, but it's not like people are retconning this entirely.
Some of us knew it then.Maybe Ainge watched the ACC tournament?
In the run up to the draft I had Tatum and Fultz as 1a and 1b. Both had the rep as gym rats (which is a huge plus for me in my evaluations), although it was more apparent in Tatum’s case (Hanlen’s influence). But on draft night I got off the Fultz train, all that focus on product placement rubbed me the wrong way.Yeah there were rumors that Ainge had people calling old coaches, school principals, etc. and gathering recon on all of the top guys and that the feedback on Fultz was lukewarm. Those rumors were out long before anyone knew who Fultz and Tatum were going to turn into. I read Fultz entirely wrong and was ripshit that we made the trade at the time, and I remember these rumors after the fact being somewhat soothing to read. It's not revisionist history. There were some questions around the draft about Fultz. They were unsourced, rumors, heresay, etc. It wasn't widespread and out there bigly, but it's not like people are retconning this entirely.
The story also goes that Ainge wanted Durant over Oden, had the Celtics won that lottery. He was in the vast minority.Yeah there were rumors that Ainge had people calling old coaches, school principals, etc. and gathering recon on all of the top guys and that the feedback on Fultz was lukewarm. Those rumors were out long before anyone knew who Fultz and Tatum were going to turn into. I read Fultz entirely wrong and was ripshit that we made the trade at the time, and I remember these rumors after the fact being somewhat soothing to read. It's not revisionist history. There were some questions around the draft about Fultz. They were unsourced, rumors, heresay, etc. It wasn't widespread and out there bigly, but it's not like people are retconning this entirely.
The day after Fultz worked out for Boston when we still had the #1 pick, he scheduled another workout for the following day with another team (Philly I beleive). I recall posting about it at the time that this was not typical of what a consensus #1 pick would do and that both parties knew right then that Fultz would not be a Celtic.Yeah no matter what I hear, I'll always be convinced that Ainge had Tatum and Fultz graded pretty closely, to the point where he would've been fine with either. There's even an argument that he thought Fultz was the better player, but Tatum plus the future 1st had more value than Fultz alone.
He also put on a ton of weight working with his non-basketball specific trainer which probably didn’t do his shoulder or his shot much good.Didn’t Fultz have terrible workouts throughout the pre-draft process? I think that’s when he was experimenting with the new shooting form and doing other weird things
There will be an interesting article (or chapter in a book) written at some point when all the parties have retired, but I just cannot believe that if Ainge truly graded Tatum as the best player in the class (by any discernible margin) that he would have risked losing him over a future 1st.The day after Fultz worked out for Boston when we still had the #1 pick, he scheduled another workout for the following day with another team (Philly I beleive). I recall posting about it at the time that this was not typical of what a consensus #1 pick would do and that both parties knew right then that Fultz would not be a Celtic.
Unless he knew that there was zero risk. LA was never not taking Ball so it all came down to Philly wanting Fultz. I’m sure all these GMs have people within other organizations that they trust for into.There will be an interesting article (or chapter in a book) written at some point when all the parties have retired, but I just cannot believe that if Ainge truly graded Tatum as the best player in the class (by any discernible margin) that he would have risked losing him over a future 1st.
Yeah I wonder about this too. Of course professional athletes are so self-confident, DA could have just been supremely confident in his evaluation.I wonder what the dynamic is when teams are discussing a trade like 1 for 3? Does Ainge ask who Philly will take with the pick before agreeing? Of course Philly doesn’t have to tell the truth but it’s probably not good to develop a reputation for lying in a situation like that either.
edit: I guess what I’m asking is if there’s a chance that Philly tells Ainge who they are targeting during trade discussions.
Fultz did not have a great workout for the Cs. I don't believe that DA would have picked Fultz at all. IIRC, that's when DA said that Markelle could "really score against a chair" and DA took him to Chipotle for dinner. Thought it was kind of weird to take the potential #1 to Chipotle (although that was probably both DA's and Fultz's style).Didn’t Fultz have terrible workouts throughout the pre-draft process? I think that’s when he was experimenting with the new shooting form and doing other weird things