I saw at least two clips of analysts debating which player you'd most want for the future - Tatum, Luka or Zion. The latter is obviously far behind the other two and has major injury concerns, but a 19 year old who averages 22.5 points on 58% shooting in his first 24 games while displaying 99th percentile athleticism is a reasonable bet to shove his way into that conversation.I’ve said it before, but Tatum and Luka will be this next NBA generation’s clear top 2. There will be a lot of debate as to who is better, and there will be a lot of arguing about the value of defense+great offense vs. meh D with transcendent offense.
Yeah, I am making the prediction that Zion, for a variety of reasons, won’t end up in that conversation. Reasonable minds can differ here.I saw at least two clips of analysts debating which player you'd most want for the future - Tatum, Luka or Zion. The latter is obviously far behind the other two and has major injury concerns, but a 19 year old who averages 22.5 points on 58% shooting in his first 24 games while displaying 99th percentile athleticism is a reasonable bet to shove his way into that conversation.
In order for Zion to join the Luka/Tatum conversation, I'd have to see him accomplish most of these things:I saw at least two clips of analysts debating which player you'd most want for the future - Tatum, Luka or Zion. The latter is obviously far behind the other two and has major injury concerns, but a 19 year old who averages 22.5 points on 58% shooting in his first 24 games while displaying 99th percentile athleticism is a reasonable bet to shove his way into that conversation.
LeBron was 24 when he won his first MVP, as was Giannis. Duncan and Durant were 25, and Steph 26; Garnett was 27. All of them improved upon that first MVP season in subsequent years. The point is that mid-20's is the time you truly know if a player is going to be in the MVP conversation in upcoming seasons. This is good news, because, as you note, Tatum is still only 22.Remember... Tatum is still only 22. Larry Bird entered the NBA at age 23.
Tatum still has several years to go before hitting the START of his peak.
This thread guarantees he goes 5-18 on opening night. But he's gonna be awesome this year.
All true, and those conversations with analysts debating the three players occurred before the bubble. He's not in that group yet, but I suspect (and hope) he'll join them by the end of the year. He looked and played like a smaller, faster Shaq - I think the only thing that stands between him and being a top 10 player for the next dozen years is health.In order for Zion to join the Luka/Tatum conversation, I'd have to see him accomplish most of these things:
1. more than 24 NBA games
2. see if he can stay healthy for a season
3. see if he has a good work ethic during the offseason
4. see if he improves his outside shooting
5. see a slimmer, more chiseled Zion
6. see overall improvement year to year
7. see him in a playoff game/series
We've seen Tatum (and Doncic) excel in all of the above, so Zion has work to do before he can join them IMO.
Where’d you go for this pull? Now that B-ref’s season finder is behind a subscription I don’t really know where to get this kind of stuff. Maybe I should just fork over the 8/month and think of some other of it as payment for past services.Yeah, it happens to most players.
Harden had 11 games shooting under .300. Tatum had 7. Booker had 6, Mitchell had 6. In 18/19 Curry had 6. Now, Lebron had 0, but I don't think it's any kind of weird thing for Tatum.
I like that smaller, faster ShaqAll true, and those conversations with analysts debating the three players occurred before the bubble. He's not in that group yet, but I suspect (and hope) he'll join them by the end of the year. He looked and played like a smaller, faster Shaq - I think the only thing that stands between him and being a top 10 player for the next dozen years is health.
Tatum will have to remain a far superior 3 point shooter, otherwise he won't be in the conversation with those two. He'll never match Zion's athleticism or power and he'll never come close to Luka's all around offensive game. It's possible he'll make up those gaps with his defense (currently light years ahead of either), but I have to think that Luka will become an average defender (given his size and BB IQ) and Zion has a tremendous amount of potential on that end. As abysmal as he was on defense last year, he's got the potential to be an elite rim protector and guard all five positions competently.I like that smaller, faster Shaq
If your going to hope for anything, hope for Tatum to separate himself from those guys with Steph-esque 3pt shooting
This is a fun mad lib game. Am I playing correctly?Tatum will have to remain a far superior 3 point shooter, otherwise he won't be in the conversation with those two. He'll never match Zion's athleticism or power and he'll never come close to Luka's all around offensive game. It's possible he'll make up those gaps with his defense (currently light years ahead of either), but I have to think that Luka will become an average defender (given his size and BB IQ) and Zion has a tremendous amount of potential on that end. As abysmal as he was on defense last year, he's got the potential to be an elite rim protector and guard all five positions competently.
It's a fun trio to think about, all with different strengths and weaknesses. Zion for sure has the lowest floor (considering his health) but he came into the league as the most highly touted prospect since at least Anthony Davis (and possibly going all the way back to LeBron). The little time he did spend on the court hasn't done much to diminish his potential.
Game logs for each player and you can sort by whatever you like:Where’d you go for this pull? Now that B-ref’s season finder is behind a subscription I don’t really know where to get this kind of stuff. Maybe I should just fork over the 8/month and think of some other of it as payment for past services.
Zion is fun to dream on...but back here on earth Luka/Tatum are on a different level. As much as I hate his defense I'd expect Trae to potentially enter the discussion before ZWTatum will have to remain a far superior 3 point shooter, otherwise he won't be in the conversation with those two. He'll never match Zion's athleticism or power and he'll never come close to Luka's all around offensive game. It's possible he'll make up those gaps with his defense (currently light years ahead of either), but I have to think that Luka will become an average defender (given his size and BB IQ) and Zion has a tremendous amount of potential on that end. As abysmal as he was on defense last year, he's got the potential to be an elite rim protector and guard all five positions competently.
It's a fun trio to think about, all with different strengths and weaknesses. Zion for sure has the lowest floor (considering his health) but he came into the league as the most highly touted prospect since at least Anthony Davis (and possibly going all the way back to LeBron). The little time he did spend on the court hasn't done much to diminish his potential.
On a different level for now. After just 24 games, ESPN already has him 19th on their ranking and CBS has him 24th (Trae was 29th and 25th, respectively). The Athletic is a bit more conservative, ranking him in their 3B tier (28 guys are in higher tiers, Zion is on the same crowded level as Mitchell, Morant, Klay Thompson, Jaylen, Porzingis, Siakam, Westbrook, and Trae).Zion is fun to dream on...but back here on earth Luka/Tatum are on a different level. As much as I hate his defense I'd expect Trae to potentially enter the discussion before ZW
If Tatum shoots like prime Steph from 3 he's conservatively a top 5 player
All time, right? Because that’s where he would be. I sincerely doubt he gets there, though.If Tatum shoots like prime Steph from 3 he's conservatively a top 5 player
Yes, strongly.Regarding Zion, my intuition is that high level shooting has greater knock on effects for an overall offense than great finishing / inside play, absent Jokic level passing and vision. Do people agree?
I dunno. I'm guessing Shaq would still have been a huge difference maker in today's game.Regarding Zion, my intuition is that high level shooting has greater knock on effects for an overall offense than great finishing / inside play, absent Jokic level passing and vision. Do people agree?
Larry Bird entered the NBA at age 23 then finished top 2 in MVP voting six straight years starting year 2. I suppose technically the peak of his peak was year 7 but he pretty much was "hitting the start of his peak" immediately, and even then I believe he was better defensively early on than he was in say 1986. I don't disagree with your actual point at all: you look at most players from Jordan to Olajuwon even to James, and it takes years to mature and to build playoff success and Tatum is on a ridiculous trajectory. But Bird isn't the best example.Remember... Tatum is still only 22. Larry Bird entered the NBA at age 23.
Tatum still has several years to go before hitting the START of his peak.
The smoke around Donovan Mitchell is a full-blown conflagration. I think this one actually could happen when the time comes, although 5 years in the NBA is an eternity.Plan the cap around bringing Mitchell here in 2025.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/FCHWPO/status/1338308725602447363
I feel pretty confident that Danny has a whiteboard somewhere that outlines a plan for Tatum’s next FA offseason.Plan the cap around bringing Mitchell here in 2025.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/FCHWPO/status/1338308725602447363
I wondered the same thing so I googled it and didn't find anything about fresh measurements this year. Everything was from when they did it last year.On the 6'10'' listing -- is this via the same mechanism where they measure them with their shoes off and it's not lying? Or did they go back to the old honor system where now "6'10''" means he's either 6'8'' or 6'9''?
https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-might-be-6-foot-10-now-if-brad-stevens-is-to-be-believed/“Some of these teams that are ‘small,’ Tatum is 6-10 and [Gordon] Hayward’s a big guard, Jaylen [Brown]’s a big guard,” Stevens said, via Tom Westerholm of Mass Live. “You kind of go through and they’re not that small versus maybe traditional lineups.”