Jaylen Brown: Will he be enough in Year 8?

[Deathofthebambino]

Re: "he only had 2 turnovers" let's not forget literally the 2nd possession of the game when JB threw it directly to the Knicks, but they fumbled it out of bounds. It's that type of shit that is ridiculously irritating. If I knew how to post / link it I would but it was BRUTAL for anyone with DVR or YTTV.

He gets the ball at the top of the key, drives right past a KP screen, into the teeth of the defense, gets caught mid air, and then just chucks it to RJ Barrett. It's just an unacceptable type of play from anyone, let alone a supermax guy.

Jaylen had 2 turnovers. Now we're talking about plays that weren't even turnovers, because for some reason, they are fresh in your mind. How many other "almost turnovers" did the rest of the team have? Why aren't those fresh in your mind?

The Knicks had 9 steals last night, who did they steal them from? Tatum had 4 absolutely fucking terrible turnovers last night, one in crunch time, Al had 3 turnovers and he barely handles the ball.

But all anyone ever wants to talk about is Jaylen's one minute of bad play in a 48 minute game.

It's just odd. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team this season. Let's at least try to make it like a week before losing our shit.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I had a long post typed out for this, but bottom line here is the bolded. I 100% agree, but I would also like to add the caveat that the praise should be the same as the criticism..so praise without caveats.

IE, if he has a great game, it shouldn't be "Well, Jaylen was 14-22 and 3-6 from 3...but there was that one play where he lost Julius Randle off ball and then he dunked!" because Lord knows I am not seeing many "Jesus, Jaylen had a TERRIBLE 60 seconds but he did have 5 assists"

That’s entirely fair. The compliments shouldn’t come with strings attached. Ultimately, having 2 PGs and a good passing wing in Tatum should do wonders for Jaylen. He just needs to let the game come to him.

One thing I do like about Jaylen is he is very good at identifying when Tatum is in one of his passive phases (sometimes first 5-6 mins of game) and starts attacking right away.

 

[AlNipper49]

Let's say he is the 5th best player on this team entirely for argument's sake. Contract aside, what other 5th men would you bet on taking over the game as a 1 come crunch time? This lineup is an absolute buzzsaw assuming that they stay healthy.

 

[tims4wins]

Jaylen had 2 turnovers. Now we're talking about plays that weren't even turnovers, because for some reason, they are fresh in your mind. How many other "almost turnovers" did the rest of the team have? Why aren't those fresh in your mind?

The Knicks had 9 steals last night, who did they steal them from? Tatum had 4 absolutely fucking terrible turnovers last night, one in crunch time, Al had 3 turnovers and he barely handles the ball.

But all anyone ever wants to talk about is Jaylen's one minute of bad play in a 48 minute game.

It's just odd. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team this season. Let's at least try to make it like a week before losing our shit.

He literally threw the ball right to the Knicks on the 2nd possession of the season. It was stupid dumb typical JB shit and it stood out partly because of how awesome the offense looked last week against the Knicks in a preseason game. Does anyone have the video of the play? It was fucking brutal. It's like absolving a QB of a pick because it went straight through a DBs hands. It was fucking brutal.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

He literally threw the ball right to the Knicks on the 2nd possession of the season. It was stupid dumb typical JB shit and it stood out partly because of how awesome the offense looked last week against the Knicks in a preseason game. Does anyone have the video of the play? It was fucking brutal. It's like absolving a QB of a pick because it went straight through a DBs hands. It was fucking brutal.

I'll look for it, but it's hard to find plays that literally don't matter. Was that 2nd possession before or after the one below at 36 seconds?



https://www.nba.com/news/how-nba-referees-will-assess-new-flopping-violations

Why is everyone talking about Brown's bad minute, but nobody talking about the play at the 8:15 mark of the video?

 

[tims4wins]

The reason people are talking about Brown is because it appears to be SSDD with him. And he's the least enjoyable guy in the starting 5 to watch from an aesthetic perspective. I get it, he's our guy and we want the Jays to win a title together. But he doesn't fit. I almost wonder of this team would be better with Grant than JB.

I hope this take proves to be very, very, very wrong.

 

[the moops]

He literally threw the ball right to the Knicks on the 2nd possession of the season. It was stupid dumb typical JB shit and it stood out partly because of how awesome the offense looked last week against the Knicks in a preseason game. Does anyone have the video of the play? It was fucking brutal. It's like absolving a QB of a pick because it went straight through a DBs hands. It was fucking brutal.

Equating an interception with a turnover in the first minute of a season is some terrible shit.

 

[Jimbodandy]

He literally threw the ball right to the Knicks on the 2nd possession of the season. It was stupid dumb typical JB shit and it stood out partly because of how awesome the offense looked last week against the Knicks in a preseason game. Does anyone have the video of the play? It was fucking brutal. It's like absolving a QB of a pick because it went straight through a DBs hands. It was fucking brutal.

Is it though, when high usage guys average like 200-300 turnovers per year and top QBs average like 10-15? Seems like QB interceptions are a much bigger deal.

 

[tims4wins]

I was responding to DOTB's post that it wasn't even a turnover. JB got caught mid-air, spun, and threw it directly to the Knicks. Does it matter that it got categorized as a turnover or not? It's about process, not result.

 

[ManicCompression]

I'm not talking about you @BigSoxFan but there's a decent sized contingent here that will criticize Jaylen no matter what and not do the same for other players.

Criticizer here and I'll respond with: The expectations of Jaylen are higher because they're supposed to be higher. Derrick White plays above the expectations of a late first rounder and of his smaller contract. If he was a near max/max player, we would hate him. Al Horford plays above the expectations of a 37 year old. Jaylen Brown was highly drafted and is highly paid and is going to get paid even more in the coming years as the salary cap gets more and more punitive.

That's basically it. Marcus Smart caught a lot of shit in here for years despite all the great things he did. If you want to be a player making $30 million, or eventually $55 million, or you want to be a fan of that player, then you should probably accept that other fans will be disappointed when the play doesn't match up with the contract. JB playing like an all-star should be the standard. I'm not going to sing his praises every time he makes a three - that's his job as one of the highest paid players on the team.

If you're singling out Tatum, then I don't get it, because he catches a lot of shit for going cold and turning the ball over in these threads. He's just more consistently a better player than Brown, so of course he's criticized less often. That's why he's no-shit, All-NBA and Brown needs injury luck to get on.

Also, going forward, let' s just refer to his contract as 35% of the cap because we won't know how much it'll be worth before the new deal.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I was responding to DOTB's post that it wasn't even a turnover. JB got caught mid-air, spun, and threw it directly to the Knicks. Does it matter that it got categorized as a turnover or not? It's about process, not result.

I keep coming back to the same question.

Why do you only notice these things with JB, and not the 4 way more egregious actual turnovers that JT made last night? Was it because the process was better? Was JB's turnover when he tried to squeeze one under the rim to Holiday bad process, or just a bad result?

I'm sure I can find plenty of almost turnovers with tipped balls throughout the C's lineup last night, but again, it's JB, so he catches shit.

And the idea that this team might be better off with Grant instead of JB kind of gives away the game here, it's not just a bad take, it's surface of the moon hot.

 

[tims4wins]

I notice all of the bad shit with JB because IMO he plays ugly, 1:1 basketball, has an awful handle, and is prone to dumbshit turnovers.

Edit: just for the record, I never really felt this way about JB before. I thought he had immense value on previous Celts iterations. But moving TL and Smart and bringing in Jrue and KP... Brown just doesn't fit any more IMO.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Also, going forward, let' s just refer to his contract as 35% of the cap because we won't know how much it'll be worth before the new deal.

Are you talking about Jaylen's contract?

He's the fourth highest paid player on the 23/24 Celtics. How can he be 35% of the cap?

 

[Jimbodandy]

I notice all of the bad shit with JB because IMO he plays ugly, 1:1 basketball, has an awful handle, and is prone to dumbshit turnovers.

Edit: just for the record, I never really felt this way about JB before. I thought he had immense value on previous Celts iterations. But moving TL and Smart and bringing in Jrue and KP... Brown just doesn't fit any more IMO.

Well you're being honest about it. You notice when he messes up more than others because you don't like his game.

To answer the earlier question "why do people seem to notice when JB messes up more than others", that's the answer.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I notice all of the bad shit with JB because IMO he plays ugly, 1:1 basketball, has an awful handle, and is prone to dumbshit turnovers.

Edit: just for the record, I never really felt this way about JB before. I thought he had immense value on previous Celts iterations. But moving TL and Smart and bringing in Jrue and KP... Brown just doesn't fit IMO.

Ok then, you just don't like his game. I'd rather have that out there, than whatever this usually is.

But will you admit that if everyone who likes JB started pointing out every time Jrue got his pocket picked in the open court (which happened last night) or every time he was slow to a close out (which happened multiple times last night) we pointed it out in stereo, and then spent the next two days talking about it and making comments like "maybe this team would be better with Cameron Payne" you'd get a bit frustrated, because you like Jrue's game? Or if we broke down every bad play Tatum makes a night, or every time Al looks a bit old, and on and on and on....

 

[tims4wins]

Well you're being honest about it. You notice when he messes up more than others because you don't like his game.

To answer the earlier question "why do people seem to notice when JB messes up more than others", that's the answer.

Yep, at least for me.

Ok then, you just don't like his game. I'd rather have that out there, than whatever this usually is.

But will you admit that if everyone who likes JB started pointing out every time Jrue got his pocket picked in the open court (which happened last night) or every time he was slow to a close out (which happened multiple times last night) we pointed it out in stereo, and then spent the next two days talking about it and making comments like "maybe this team would be better with Cameron Payne" you'd get a bit frustrated, because you like Jrue's game? Or if we broke down every bad play Tatum makes a night, or every time Al looks a bit old, and on and on and on....

I dunno, because I have seen a lot of posts about how they need to find a way to get JB involved, or changing up who he plays with, get him looks in a certain way, etc. etc.... but I don't think that's an issue with any of the other starting 4, or Al. JB is a unique player. Like I said he had immense value on the previous iterations of the Celts. I'm not quite sure if he moves the needle on this year's team given the skillset of the surrounding talent.

Here's a wild thought: should he come off the bench?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I dunno, because I have seen a lot of posts about how they need to find a way to get JB involved, or changing up who he plays with, get him looks in a certain way, etc. etc.... but I don't think that's an issue with any of the other starting 4, or Al. JB is a unique player. Like I said he had immense value on the previous iterations of the Celts. I'm not quite sure if he moves the needle on this year's team given the skillset of the surrounding talent.

Here's a wild thought: should he come off the bench?

Every one of those posts is a sizzling hot take in and out of itself. It's been one fucking game.

The last time we (well some of us, as I'm sure plenty of folks don't watch every game) saw him on the court was literally a week ago in the preseason when he went 8/12 (4/5 from deep) had 4 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block and was a +18 in 23 minutes in a game in which the C's were up 35 after 3 quarters. In the game before that, he led the team in assists, just like he did last night.

I think he'll be just fine as a starter.

 

[AlNipper49]

I think the issue with him is that his mistakes aren't from trying to make a play happen. He's good for the most boneheaded play of the game,which'll obviously stick out more than a turnover trying to weave the ball between two defenders. I understand the frustration, it's inexplicable how such a good player can do silly things so consistently.

My issue with Brown is that on the games when we need him and he goes cold, those silly things really have a way of compounding themselves quickly.

 

[tims4wins]

Every one of those posts is a sizzling hot take in and out of itself. It's been one fucking game.

The last time we (well some of us, as I'm sure plenty of folks don't watch every game) saw him on the court was literally a week ago in the preseason when he went 8/12 (4/5 from deep) had 4 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block and was a +18 in 23 minutes in a game in which the C's were up 35 after 3 quarters. In the game before that, he led the team in assists, just like he did last night.

I think he'll be just fine as a starter.

Even last week, he stuck out as not really fitting in on offense and just "getting his". His shots aren't within the rythm of the offense. It's awesome when they go down.

I think the issue with him is that his mistakes aren't from trying to make a play happen. He's good for the most boneheaded play of the game,which'll obviously stick out more than a turnover trying to weave the ball between two defenders. I understand the frustration, it's inexplicable how such a good player can do silly things so consistently.

My issue with Brown is that on the games when we need him and he goes cold, those silly things really have a way of compounding themselves quickly.

He's the Verdugo of the Celts.

Edit: in the general Celts 2023-2024 thread, there was a request for positivity and not just dumping on players / plays / minutiae purely due to the high expectations of this year's team. With that in mind, I am going to drop it. We ALL want the Celts to go 98-0 this year. Here's hoping JB helps make that happen.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Even last week, he stuck out as not really fitting in on offense and just "getting his". His shots aren't within the rythm of the offense. It's awesome when they go down.

Again, I think this is just your bias. When Tatum goes one on one yesterday and fires up an airball, is that "within the rhythm of the offense?" How about when he backs a man down slowly, and then hits a fadeaway? Rhythm of the offense or getting his? How about when he was in the corner yesterday, man in his grill, and he does a step back and makes it? If he misses that one, do you treat him the same way you do Brown if he tried the same thing?

I literally don't follow.

That said, I have no problem with you not liking Jaylen's game. I've got no problem admitting I didn't like Marcus' game for a long time, but I tried to not let that color the way I viewed his game, and more importantly to me, the results. Jaylen has his warts, they don't need to be pointed out constantly and repeatedly. Tatum has some too, we rarely point them out. I'm sure we'll start seeing more of KP's as the season goes on, same with Holiday. None of them are perfect, but Jaylen catches an obscene amount of shit for a guy who 30 other teams would beg to have. What bothers me the most is the overreaction to everything he does, and to things he didn't even do (like play bad defense last night).

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Serious question. What is Jaylen Brown's vision status? I wonder if some of his turnovers are related to impaired vision. Does he wear contacts while playing? If not, should he be wearing them, or glasses, when playing? He definitely wears reading glasses in private. Is he myopic as well? For someone who reads as much as he does (and probably in sub-optimal lighting), it wouldn't surprise me if his distance vision is impaired as well.

 

[luckiestman]

Why do you only notice these things with JB, and not the 4 way more egregious actual turnovers that JT made last night? Was it because the process was better? Was JB's turnover when he tried to squeeze one under the rim to Holiday bad process, or just a bad result?

People notice Tatum's errors but also notice he dominated the game. I did not watch a lot of preseason ball. I was unsettled by how much it looked like JB was just existing as part of the starting 5. It's only one game, he was an all-NBA player last year and we need him to succeed but I don't think it is a mystery as to why those plays stuck out to people.

 

[fairlee76]

Let's say he is the 5th best player on this team entirely for argument's sake. Contract aside, what other 5th men would you bet on taking over the game as a 1 come crunch time? This lineup is an absolute buzzsaw assuming that they stay healthy.

If he is the 5th best player on the team (or the 3rd or the 4th) that is great. We ask what is "enough" from JB in the thread title. Last year, "enough" was him performing at a level commensurate with being the 2nd best player on the team. A level he was pretty hit-or-miss at reaching in the Miami series. But if we downgrade his "enough" to his performing at the level of the 3rd to 5th best player on a title contender, he easily passes that threshold most every night.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

People notice Tatum's errors but also notice he dominated the game. I did not watch a lot of preseason ball. I was unsettled by how much it looked like JB was just existing as part of the starting 5. It's only one game, he was an all-NBA player last year and we need him to succeed but I don't think it is a mystery as to why those plays stuck out to people.

He led the team in assists, he was 2nd on the team in +/- (while not playing with Tatum for a lot of the game), third on the team in rebounds, he played really good defense all night long. His shot wasn't falling, so instead of forcing it, he let Tatum and KP go to work. If instead of going 4/11, he went 6/20, and had 1 assist, would that be a better game?

Did Horford dominate the game? He had more turnovers than Jaylen on way less usage, and yet, I don't think anyone has pointed out a single one of those. He had 1 more rebound even though he plays the 4/5.

Derrick White took only 6 shots, and only had 2 assists, while Jaylen had 5? Was he just existing as part of the starting 5?

Holiday only took 10 shots, also only had 2 assists, what was he doing?

I'm sorry, but if Tatum and KP score 64 points combined, how many do people think Jaylen should score before he isn't just "existing" and how many of those open looks that Tatum and KP got do you want Jaylen to steal from them so he can get his. Oh wait, we just talked about how "getting his" is bad.

I'm seriously confused. I don't know, maybe Grant Williams would have done more than just exist. I mean, he did have 5 games last season when he took more shots than Jaylen's 11 last night.

You guys, it's ok to just say you don't like Jaylen Brown, it doesn't need to be rational. It's sports, sometimes fans don't like certain guys, but the gymnastics some folks do to rationalize why they don't like Jaylen is just odd.

 

[benhogan]

Jaylen Brown is an elite offensive player in transition when the pace is up. In a slowed-down half-court rock fight he's a lot less effective.

The style of teams like the Knicks, Heat, and Bucks isn't great for JB. This also plays out in the EC playoffs when the games slow down.

If he played in the WC on a nightly basis against high-tempo teams like the Kings, PHX, Denver, GSW he wouldn't get nearly the same amount of criticism.

 

[djbayko]

Serious question. What is Jaylen Brown's vision status? I wonder if some of his turnovers are related to impaired vision. Does he wear contacts while playing? If not, should he be wearing them, or glasses, when playing? He definitely wears reading glasses in private. Is he myopic as well? For someone who reads as much as he does (and probably in sub-optimal lighting), it wouldn't surprise me if his distance vision is impaired as well.

His turnovers have never struck me as having anything to do with vision. He dribbles off of his foot, loses his handle, gets tied up in the paint, and throws the ball away when he gets caught in the air with nowhere to go. I’m probably missing a few common categories, but contacts aren’t fixing any of those.

 

[luckiestman]

He led the team in assists, he was 2nd on the team in +/- (while not playing with Tatum for a lot of the game), third on the team in rebounds, he played really good defense all night long. His shot wasn't falling, so instead of forcing it, he let Tatum and KP go to work. If instead of going 4/11, he went 6/20, and had 1 assist, would that be a better game?

Did Horford dominate the game? He had more turnovers than Jaylen on way less usage, and yet, I don't think anyone has pointed out a single one of those. He had 1 more rebound even though he plays the 4/5.

Derrick White took only 6 shots, and only had 2 assists, while Jaylen had 5? Was he just existing as part of the starting 5?

Holiday only took 10 shots, also only had 2 assists, what was he doing?

I'm sorry, but if Tatum and KP score 64 points combined, how many do people think Jaylen should score before he isn't just "existing" and how many of those open looks that Tatum and KP got do you want Jaylen to steal from them so he can get his. Oh wait, we just talked about how "getting his" is bad.

I'm seriously confused. I don't know, maybe Grant Williams would have done more than just exist. I mean, he did have 5 games last season when he took more shots than Jaylen's 11 last night.

You guys, it's ok to just say you don't like Jaylen Brown, it doesn't need to be rational. It's sports, sometimes fans don't like certain guys, but the gymnastics some folks do to rationalize why they don't like Jaylen is just odd.

I like Jaylen Brown.

Jrue was playing like a madman. His defense on Randle was so good it was funny.

D White was very similar to Brown, I am hoping for a lot more out of Brown than that. I don't plan to evaluate JB on how he looks compared to White.

Why would I critique Horford? The man is 97 years old.

 

[ManicCompression]

Are you talking about Jaylen's contract?

He's the fourth highest paid player on the 23/24 Celtics. How can he be 35% of the cap?

Talking about his future contract. Instead of saying he’ll be making 60 mill, he’ll make 35% of the cap.

 

[Auger34]

People notice Tatum's errors but also notice he dominated the game. I did not watch a lot of preseason ball. I was unsettled by how much it looked like JB was just existing as part of the starting 5. It's only one game, he was an all-NBA player last year and we need him to succeed but I don't think it is a mystery as to why those plays stuck out to people.

If Tatum had the exact same game that Jaylen had last night, he wouldn’t be catching any shit at all. The narrative would be it’s one game and he was great last year.

People love to act like Tatum gets a fair share of criticism on here….he doesn’t. Tatum is the best player on the team so I get it but it’s annoying to see it compared to Jaylen as if they are even in the same galaxy of each other.

In the game thread, you pointed out how this is similar to Mac vs Brady. That perfectly encapsulates what I am saying. Jaylen Brown is an elite player that has accomplished things in his sport as a pro that Mac could only dream of. Tom Brady is the best player ever….Tatum isn’t the best player in the Eastern Conference.

On the whole, the board overrates Tatum and underrates Brown. Some people a massive amount.

(Tatum is the best player on the team and he’s top 3 in a franchise draft. I just recognize he’s not perfect)

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Talking about his future contract. Instead of saying he’ll be making 60 mill, he’ll make 35% of the cap.

He's making 23.4% of the league cap this year.

Why are we talking about something that may or may not happen in the future as if it somehow has any relevance to his on court results this season?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I like Jaylen Brown.

Jrue was playing like a madman. His defense on Randle was so good it was funny.

D White was very similar to Brown, I am hoping for a lot more out of Brown than that. I don't plan to evaluate JB on how he looks compared to White.

Why would I critique Horford? The man is 97 years old.

Why would you be so critical of Brown in a game where he played really well for all of about 2 minutes last night?

That's what I don't understand. You want more out of him, fine. Which shots did you want him to take and from whom? What did he not do outside of those two minutes that you want him to do?

If a guy isn't feeling it, and he has two teammates going off, why are we denigrating a guy for recognizing it and contributing in other ways, like finishing the game with more assists than our two points guards had combined?

I seriously don't understand the line of thinking.

If he goes out in the next game and scores 40 and the C's lose, I'm sure we'll hear more about his 4 turnovers than we will about his 40 (whereas we aren't hearing about Tatum's 4 turnovers as much as we're praising him for the 34 points he scored on great efficiency), or we'll hear about that one time he lost a man back door for 2 points, and ignore the other 110 points our opponent scored on other Celtics.

It's all good though. We can move on. I don't get it, I won't get it, and I've resigned myself to the fact that people are going to shit on him no matter how he plays, because we've got about 5 years of evidence of it.

And if the C's win it all this season, I look forward to folks still looking to trade him in the offseason. Thankfully, I trust Brad not to be stupid.

 

[luckiestman]

If he goes out in the next game and scores 40 and the C's lose, I'm sure we'll hear more about his 4 turnovers than we will about his 40

If I do this you can slap me.

 

[ManicCompression]

He's making 23.4% of the league cap this year.

Why are we talking about something that may or may not happen in the future as if it somehow has any relevance to his on court results this season?

You’re so insufferable on this topic. Obviously whether Jaylen Brown plays up to being a max player has some bearing on how we view him. If he’s not better than the 30th best player in the league this year, the Celtics are under water on his extension, which would be an annoying thing from a fan perspective because it would be harder to move such a contract.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

You’re so insufferable on this topic. Obviously whether Jaylen Brown plays up to being a max player has some bearing on how we view him. If he’s not better than the 30th best player in the league this year, the Celtics are under water on his extension, which would be an annoying thing from a fan perspective because it would be harder to move such a contract.

You know what's insufferable, worrying about his trade value one fucking game into the season BEFORE his contract even kicks in.

Find just one example of a guy in year one or year 2 or year 3 of a supermax in which a team had a hard time moving them because they regressed so much.

After the 2019 season, Russell Westbrook was a 30 year old that couldn't hit the broad side of a planet with a jump shot, and Houston gave up Chris Paul, 2 first rounders and 2 first round pick swaps to get him. Did you see what the Wizards just turned Bradley Beal into? Rudy Gobert?


But yeah, let's keep worrying about Wyc's money and Brad's abilities to move on from Jaylen if he needs to, one game into the season.

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

He literally threw the ball right to the Knicks on the 2nd possession of the season. It was stupid dumb typical JB shit and it stood out partly because of how awesome the offense looked last week against the Knicks in a preseason game. Does anyone have the video of the play? It was fucking brutal. It's like absolving a QB of a pick because it went straight through a DBs hands. It was fucking brutal.

Stop viewing this through a football lens, maybe?
It's a false equivalence.

 

[ManicCompression]

You know what's insufferable, worrying about his trade value one fucking game into the season BEFORE his contract even kicks in.

Find just one example of a guy in year one or year 2 or year 3 of a supermax in which a team had a hard time moving them because they regressed so much.

After the 2019 season, Russell Westbrook was a 30 year old that couldn't hit the broad side of a planet with a jump shot, and Houston gave up Chris Paul, 2 first rounders and 2 first round pick swaps to get him. Did you see what the Wizards just turned Bradley Beal into? Rudy Gobert?


But yeah, let's keep worrying about Wyc's money and Brad's abilities to move on from Jaylen if he needs to, one game into the season.

Oh my god dude, get a grip on yourself. He’s not your kid, he’s an athlete who’s going to make like almost half a billion in his playing career.

I don’t care about Wyc’s money. I care about the very punitive salary cap rules just put in place this CBA. We don’t know what trades are going to be like going forward. It’s a logical concern to have.

Also, we’re not doing this one game into the season. We’re doing it after an error prone playoffs last year… and the year before… and he doesn’t have a lot of runway to improve now that he’s in his prime… so yeah, fans are going to actually have max expectations now that he’s a max player. Like every other player on a large contract. There’s nothing unique about him as much as you want to believe there is.

 

[DGreenwood]

Serious question. What is Jaylen Brown's vision status? I wonder if some of his turnovers are related to impaired vision. Does he wear contacts while playing? If not, should he be wearing them, or glasses, when playing? He definitely wears reading glasses in private. Is he myopic as well? For someone who reads as much as he does (and probably in sub-optimal lighting), it wouldn't surprise me if his distance vision is impaired as well.

He wears contacts while he plays. He's had to come out of a game before when he lost a contact.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Oh my god dude, get a grip on yourself. He’s not your kid, he’s an athlete who’s going to make like almost half a billion in his playing career.

I don’t care about Wyc’s money. I care about the very punitive salary cap rules just put in place this CBA. We don’t know what trades are going to be like going forward. It’s a logical concern to have.

Also, we’re not doing this one game into the season. We’re doing it after an error prone playoffs last year… and the year before… and he doesn’t have a lot of runway to improve now that he’s in his prime… so yeah, fans are going to actually have max expectations now that he’s a max player. Like every other player on a large contract. There’s nothing unique about him as much as you want to believe there is.

Yeah, those error prone playoffs.

I suppose if you literally only remember what you want to remember.

You know what I remember:

Through the first 13 playoff games, Jaylen shot 54.1% from the field and 47.1% from deep. Without his contributions on defense, and hot hand, this team isn't even playing game 1 of the ECF, never mind game 7. But God forbid the guy miss a free throw, or turn the ball over. In Game 6 against Miami, when Tatum was going 8/22 and 0/8 from deep, there was Brown going 9/16 from the floor (0/4 from deep), burying 5 clutch free throws down the stretch and ripping down 5 offensive boards (10 boards total), but nope, we were filled with angst and folks ready to kill him, because he missed one late free throw and had 4 turnovers (the same number Tatum had).

Then in Game 7, Tatum gets hurt, Brown fails to put the team on his back, and well, the narrative that he sucked in the playoffs lives. The C's don't even get to a game 7 if he doesn't put the clamps on Butler for huge portions of games 4,5,6 while Tatum was guarding PJ Tucker in the corner.

But feel free to root against Brown because you don't like his game or revise history to confirm whatever you believe. Makes no difference to me, like I said, I'm resigned to it.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Oh my god dude, get a grip on yourself. He’s not your kid, he’s an athlete who’s going to make like almost half a billion in his playing career.

I don’t care about Wyc’s money. I care about the very punitive salary cap rules just put in place this CBA. We don’t know what trades are going to be like going forward. It’s a logical concern to have.

Also, we’re not doing this one game into the season. We’re doing it after an error prone playoffs last year… and the year before… and he doesn’t have a lot of runway to improve now that he’s in his prime… so yeah, fans are going to actually have max expectations now that he’s a max player. Like every other player on a large contract. There’s nothing unique about him as much as you want to believe there is.

And once again, he's not on a max contract. That starts NEXT YEAR. He's the 4th highest paid player on this team this year.

Maybe if you start viewing him as the 4th highest paid player on the team, you'll start sleeping better at night. Here, bookmark this page so you can remember it each time you post:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/jaylen-brown-20208/

 

[ManicCompression]

But feel free to root against Brown because you don't like his game or revise history to confirm whatever you believe. Makes no difference to me, like I said, I'm resigned to it.

who said I’m rooting against Brown? Why would I want a player on my team to not be good? Why do you feel the need to pretend like we have personal vendettas against this guy? We all want him to live up to his contract - it’s that simple!

 

[Deathofthebambino]

who said I’m rooting against Brown? Why would I want a player on my team to not be good? Why do you feel the need to pretend like we have personal vendettas against this guy? We all want him to live up to his contract - it’s that simple!

Got it. You're going to hold him to a different standard than everyone else because of his contract that kicks in next year.

 

[RorschachsMask]

The C's don't even get to a game 7 if he doesn't put the clamps on Butler for huge portions of games 4,5,6 while Tatum was guarding PJ Tucker in the corner.

Game 4, Tatum defended Butler for 32 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 10

Game 5, Tatum defended Butler for 17 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 4.

Game 6, Tatum defended Butler for 26 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 8.

You mention both of their shooting in game 6, but only Jaylen’s rebounds. Tatum had 31/12/5 himself, with 3 turnovers not 4.

I think all the comparisons being made with Tatum and Jaylen in this thread is part of the problem. Don’t need to talk down one player to prop another one up, though we’re all guilty of it at times lol.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Game 4, Tatum defended Butler for 32 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 10

Game 5, Tatum defended Butler for 17 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 4.

Game 6, Tatum defended Butler for 26 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 8.

You mention both of their shooting in game 6, but only Jaylen’s rebounds. Tatum had 31/12/5 himself, with 3 turnovers not 4.

I think all the comparisons being made with Tatum and Jaylen in this thread is part of the problem. Don’t need to talk down one player to prop another one up, though we’re all guilty of it at times lol.

It's not a comparison. Everyone in this thread, and everyone on Earth knows that Tatum is a much better player in every respect, than Jaylen Brown.

The point I've been making and that most other folks who actually support JB make is that every single mistake Jaylen makes is cause for handwringing that nobody else, including Tatum, gets. For every 100 possessions last season, and on comparable usage, Brown made .2 turnovers more than Tatum. But every one seems to have instant recall about every turnover he makes.

If Jaylen Brown went 0/8 from deep in game 6 and they lost that game, he'd have caught so much shit, the sky would have turned brown. Tatum scored 15 of his points from the free throw line. Brown went 8/10 from the line and made five huge free throws down the stretch, but when he missed one, folks were ready to run him out of town from the line. He was everywhere in game 6, grabbing boards, etc.

It just gets exhausting when every game thread, and every post game recap focuses solely on Brown's negatives, and almost completely ignores when other guys are making mistakes. I've never understood it.

 

[ManicCompression]

Got it. You're going to hold him to a different standard than everyone else because of his contract that kicks in next year.

I have multiple posts explaining this that you’re free to read. I don’t hold him to a different standard. All players are criticized or not criticized based on their extensions. Damian Lillard signed an extension - everyone made fun of Portland, saying he wasn’t worth it before it’d kicked in, which is a criticism of Lillard himself. Same with Beal. Same with Lavine. Etc. etc. Players that don’t get criticized for extensions are no-shit max players. That is not Jaylen. If he was, it shouldn’t be an issue to expect him to play like one.

You’ve made it clear that you don’t want to honestly engage with this argument because it doesn’t allow you to play make believe and be a martyr for JB. Fine, cool, do what you have to do to sleep at night. But literally every player in the nba is judged against their contract because of the way the salary cap works.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I have multiple posts explaining this that you’re free to read. I don’t hold him to a different standard. All players are criticized or not criticized based on their extensions. Damian Lillard signed an extension - everyone made fun of Portland, saying he wasn’t worth it before it’d kicked in, which is a criticism of Lillard himself. Same with Beal. Same with Lavine. Etc. etc. Players that don’t get criticized for extensions are no-shit max players. That is not Jaylen. If he was, it shouldn’t be an issue to expect him to play like one.

You’ve made it clear that you don’t want to honestly engage with this argument because it doesn’t allow you to play make believe and be a martyr for JB. Fine, cool, do what you have to do to sleep at night. But literally every player in the nba is judged against their contract because of the way the salary cap works.

It's not his contract yet.

If he's on this team next year, and making 60mil, we can revisit it. Deal?

 

[RorschachsMask]

It's not a comparison. Everyone in this thread, and everyone on Earth knows that Tatum is a much better player in every respect, than Jaylen Brown.

The point I've been making and that most other folks who actually support JB make is that every single mistake Jaylen makes is cause for handwringing that nobody else, including Tatum, gets. For every 100 possessions last season, and on comparable usage, Brown made .2 turnovers more than Tatum. But every one seems to have instant recall about every turnover he makes.

If Jaylen Brown went 0/8 from deep in game 6 and they lost that game, he'd have caught so much shit, the sky would have turned brown. Tatum scored 15 of his points from the free throw line. Brown went 8/10 from the line and made five huge free throws down the stretch, but when he missed one, folks were ready to run him out of town from the line. He was everywhere in game 6, grabbing boards, etc.

It just gets exhausting when every game thread, and every post game recap focuses solely on Brown's negatives, and almost completely ignores when other guys are making mistakes. I've never understood it.

I get being frustrated, but saying Tatum just sat in the corner defending Tucker while Jaylen clamped up Butler in games 4/5/6 is absolutely talking down Tatum to prop Jaylen up lol. Especially because it wasn’t close to the case, Tatum was taking Butler 1 on 1 pretty much all series.

Jaylen had a brutal series, 19/6 on a 46% TS, and more turnovers than assists. They had a -7.8 net rating when he played, and +8.4 when he sat. Tatum got endless shit for the Warriors series when he averaged 22/7/7 on a 48% TS. It’s just part of the deal for all star/superstar players.

But just like with Tatum in the finals, it was one series, and nobody should make any big assumptions from that+ the one game we’ve played so far lol. He’s just going to have to adjust to a different role, and I expect that within a couple of weeks, he will be rolling.

 

[ManicCompression]

It's not his contract yet.

what exactly do you think a “Contract EXTENSION” is? Do you think the Celtics get to say “actually, forget about it” if they don’t like how the season goes?

can you acknowledge anything else i said about other players being judged for these same max extensions? Just admit you’re wrong about it. It’s okay.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

what exactly do you think a “Contract EXTENSION” is? Do you think the Celtics get to say “actually, forget about it” if they don’t like how the season goes?

can you acknowledge anything else i said about other players being judged for these same max extensions? Just admit you’re wrong about it. It’s okay.

You can call it whatever you want. It doesn't kick in until next year. Until then, he's the 4th highest paid player on the team. By the time the contract ends, he may not even be a top 25 paid player.

And yes, if this season goes poorly or if he's not a fit, there will be teams lined up to take that contract off the C's hands, barring a major injury. So yeah, the C's can basically forget about it.

Can you at least acknowledge that if the C's didn't offer it, he'd be playing somewhere else next year, and we'd have what to show for it?

I'm wrong, because you claim to know people who judged other players on their extensions before the extensions kicked in, or literally one fucking game into the season when they signed it? Sure, I'm wrong. I do not doubt that there are more people just as strange as you when it comes to judging players a year before it matters.

 

[ManicCompression]

I'm wrong, because you claim to know people who judged other players on their extensions before the extensions kicked in, or literally one fucking game into the season when they signed it? Sure, I'm wrong. I do not doubt that there are more people just as strange as you when it comes to judging players a year before it matters.

You’re just so incredibly irrational on this topic. I respect you greatly as a poster, but the way you try to dodge logic over the last however many posts is very grating. I’m bored, I’m sure everyone else is bored, I hope Jaylen wins mvp and the Cs get the championship.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Wait a minute, timeout. A nice, needed moment of levity, IMO.

PJ Tucker didn’t even play for Miami last year lol.