In-season NBA news thread

lovegtm

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If Celtics ownership were stupid enough to reward Pierce with a huge last deal as a retirement gold watch because of his legacy with the Celtics, instead of either agreeing to move on, or take less money to hopefully play for another ring with a good FA with the cap room. almost everyone on this board would have pissed. Kobe held that franchise hostage, and was a big factor in it missing the playoffs for a half decade, and if LeBron didn’t want to be in LA, it probably would have been longer
I'm pretty curious what will happen to the Lakers now that the last NBA Boomer, LeBron, is close to retiring. The franchise just doesn't seem to have the same zing for young stars who get national coverage and shoe deals regardless of where they play, and can get as many girls as they want via Insta as opposed to physical location.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm pretty curious what will happen to the Lakers now that the last NBA Boomer, LeBron, is close to retiring. The franchise just doesn't seem to have the same zing for young stars who get national coverage and shoe deals regardless of where they play, and can get as many girls as they want via Insta as opposed to physical location.
LA still has some nice things in the eyes of a late 20-something athletic superstar, and the brand has long legs. But the Clippers can offer the same location-wise, and the upcoming CBA restrictions will make it much harder for the Lakers to mysteriously find that cap space to lure in a couple of big stars.
 

lovegtm

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LA still has some nice things in the eyes of a late 20-something athletic superstar, and the brand has long legs. But the Clippers can offer the same location-wise, and the upcoming CBA restrictions will make it much harder for the Lakers to mysteriously find that cap space to lure in a couple of big stars.
Yes, having the next generation be totally fine choosing the Clippers (and the Nets) may loom large, in hindsight.

The historic cachet of the Lakers and Knicks is dwindling, even for guys who care about being in NYC/LA.

Although I would note that PG was totally fine to extend in OKC, and only went to LA because he was traded, even though he's from there.

The only stars to force their way to LA the past 15-20 years have been LeBron, AD, and Kawhi. Pretty crazy when you put it in those terms. It might be 25 years if you go back to Shaq.
 

lexrageorge

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Yes, having the next generation be totally fine choosing the Clippers (and the Nets) may loom large, in hindsight.

The historic cachet of the Lakers and Knicks is dwindling, even for guys who care about being in NYC/LA.

Although I would note that PG was totally fine to extend in OKC, and only went to LA because he was traded, even though he's from there.

The only stars to force their way to LA the past 15-20 years have been LeBron, AD, and Kawhi. Pretty crazy when you put it in those terms. It might be 25 years if you go back to Shaq.
Dwight Howard was in his prime when he forced his way to LA via trade. Of course, none of the Lakers fans in the fawning NBA media saw the cliff coming.

Kyrie will get probably make his way there if LeBron stays, just in time for his own decline years. IIRC, Ben Simmons (lol) tried to force his way there via Klutch, and everyone here thought Simmons had all the leverage to make it happen.
 

Van Everyman

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maybe, but also he just had a really rabid fanbase in large part due to stylistic and marketing reasons.
He had a 1v1 heavy I'm gonna shoot everything style certain people loved, he was in a big market, Nike annointed him and gave him the coolest shoe line.
And... Kobe really was the start of the over the top toxic on-line stans, like the two groups who loved Kobe were... little kids Tatum's age who just knew he had cool shoes he played cool style and he won a lot, and super-toxic online incels who wanted to fight about who was the best (and kind of loved that he beat the rape charge). If you weren't on early NBA twitter (and boards, and things like Daily Dime Live) you may not remember but Kobestan was a whole thing, and shorthand for the worst people in all of NBA fandom.
This is a terrific post, and great history and context for those who either only know Kobe for how he’s remembered today or weren’t on early NBA Twitter.

It’s a legit horrible thing to say but the best thing that happened for Jayson Tatum’s basketball career is that Kobe Bryant died.
 

benhogan

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This is a terrific post, and great history and context for those who either only know Kobe for how he’s remembered today or weren’t on early NBA Twitter.

It’s a legit horrible thing to say but the best thing that happened for Jayson Tatum’s basketball career is that Kobe Bryant died.
Kobe was complete filth and I'm the furthest thing from being a Kobestan BUT I'm definitely guilty of liking his ESPN DETAILS videos on current NBA players.

I need a shower after this post...
 

Kliq

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The most annoying thing about Kobe worship (excluding the sexual assault stuff) was how he managed to successfully sell himself as the ultimate competitor who would do anything to win a basketball game--when the reality is that he basically never compromised his play style and always chose the path that would allow him to jack up as many shots as possible.

Contrast that with so many other great players, Bird, Magic, Russell, Kareem, Duncan, KG, West, LeBron---those guys really could care less about scoring and were solely focused on what they could do to make sure their team won. Jordan took a million shots, but that was really because him shooting WAS the best way for his team to win, and eventually once his teammates started to not suck, he freely empowered them. Even Wilt, who was an incredibly selfish, statistically obsessed player, eventually learned the lesson that if he shot less, focused more on defense and playmaking, his teams would win. Kobe never did, and yet is somehow still worshipped as the ultimate competitor who "knew how to win."
 

slamminsammya

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The most annoying thing about Kobe worship (excluding the sexual assault stuff) was how he managed to successfully sell himself as the ultimate competitor who would do anything to win a basketball game--when the reality is that he basically never compromised his play style and always chose the path that would allow him to jack up as many shots as possible.

Contrast that with so many other great players, Bird, Magic, Russell, Kareem, Duncan, KG, West, LeBron---those guys really could care less about scoring and were solely focused on what they could do to make sure their team won. Jordan took a million shots, but that was really because him shooting WAS the best way for his team to win, and eventually once his teammates started to not suck, he freely empowered them. Even Wilt, who was an incredibly selfish, statistically obsessed player, eventually learned the lesson that if he shot less, focused more on defense and playmaking, his teams would win. Kobe never did, and yet is somehow still worshipped as the ultimate competitor who "knew how to win."
Kobe is one of the few whose postseason production and especially passing improved fairly consistently. I hated his style but there is an argument there.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Kobe is one of the few whose postseason production and especially passing improved fairly consistently. I hated his style but there is an argument there.
His career postseason TS% is .541, which is fairly cruddy, even by the slightly lower efficiency standards of his era. Overall, his postseason numbers are fairly in line with his regular season numbers.

By way of comparison, Steph’s career playoff numbers pretty much crush his across the board.

Curry (in 37.4 mpg) 27.0 pts on .606 TS, 5.3 reb, 6.2 ast, +7.6 on court, +12.0 net on-off

Bryant (in 39.3 mpg) 25.6 pts on .541 TS, 5.1 reb, 4.7 ast, +3.3 on court, +7.6 net on-off
 

lovegtm

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Kobe won 5 rings, including 2 on teams where he was the best player. And if we're going to ding him for playing next to Shaq, I will similarly ding Curry for getting 2 rings next to KD.

Kobe (until the end) was really fucking good at winning, both as a floor raiser and top guy on a contender. A lot of better TS% types would kill to have his resume.

Yeah he was on the Lakers and did shitty things. I don't have to like him to be honest about how good he was.
 

slamminsammya

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His career postseason TS% is .541, which is fairly cruddy, even by the slightly lower efficiency standards of his era. Overall, his postseason numbers are fairly in line with his regular season numbers.

By way of comparison, Steph’s career playoff numbers pretty much crush his across the board.

Curry (in 37.4 mpg) 27.0 pts on .606 TS, 5.3 reb, 6.2 ast, +7.6 on court, +12.0 net on-off

Bryant (in 39.3 mpg) 25.6 pts on .541 TS, 5.1 reb, 4.7 ast, +3.3 on court, +7.6 net on-off
Yeah, you need to look at how his offenses performed to capture the impact he had. Tatum is similar in that they both have a high usage but average ish TS%. Kobe's playmaking was expert in the playoffs.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Kobe won 5 rings, including 2 on teams where he was the best player. And if we're going to ding him for playing next to Shaq, I will similarly ding Curry for getting 2 rings next to KD.

Kobe (until the end) was really fucking good at winning, both as a floor raiser and top guy on a contender. A lot of better TS% types would kill to have his resume.

Yeah he was on the Lakers and did shitty things. I don't have to like him to be honest about how good he was.
Not really dinging him, just refuting the specific claim that he “postseason production and especially passing improved fairly consistently.” Assuming we mean relative to the regular season: his scoring efficiency, scoring volume, assist rate, and rebound rate all declined slightly in the playoffs. Which … is pretty typical.

All elite NBA players are “really fucking good at winning.” To point out his shortcomings as a teammate and person, or to note that even in pure hoops terms he was less great than Curry and a tier below LeBron and MJ doesn’t preclude him being really fucking good at winning.
 

Auger34

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Kobe won 5 rings, including 2 on teams where he was the best player. And if we're going to ding him for playing next to Shaq, I will similarly ding Curry for getting 2 rings next to KD.

Kobe (until the end) was really fucking good at winning, both as a floor raiser and top guy on a contender. A lot of better TS% types would kill to have his resume.

Yeah he was on the Lakers and did shitty things. I don't have to like him to be honest about how good he was.
Werent all of the teams Kobe won with clearly the best teams in the NBA? Like absolutely no doubt they had the most talent?
The 2 teams where he was the best player were absolutely stacked with talent. Gasol, Bynum, Fisher, Odom, Artest (only one year). Shannon Brown was a very good bench wing and Jordan Farmar was a good backup PG
 

Auger34

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Not really dinging him, just refuting the specific claim that he “postseason production and especially passing improved fairly consistently.” Assuming we mean relative to the regular season: his scoring efficiency, scoring volume, assist rate, and rebound rate all declined slightly in the playoffs. Which … is pretty typical.

All elite NBA players are “really fucking good at winning.” To point out his shortcomings as a teammate and person, or to note that even in pure hoops terms he was less great than Curry and a tier below LeBron and MJ doesn’t preclude him being really fucking good at winning.
IMO, he’s in that 12-20 range for best players ever. The fact that people try to prop him up as maybe on of the best to ever play is fucking absurd. He’s not close to the best player ever
 

InstaFace

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Werent all of the teams Kobe won with clearly the best teams in the NBA? Like absolutely no doubt they had the most talent?
The 2 teams where he was the best player were absolutely stacked with talent. Gasol, Bynum, Fisher, Odom, Artest (only one year). Shannon Brown was a very good bench wing and Jordan Farmar was a good backup PG
That depends, are we considering an un-injured Garnett and Perk?

(still bitter. won't apologize.)
 

NomarsFool

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IF the Celtics make a change, which now seems fairly unlikely, they would need someone with absolutely no hint of baggage. Griffin probably would not have been their guy, anyway.
 

Ale Xander

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Griffin accused of domestic abuse by his wife at the time. He filed and then withdrew libel suit against her

Yeah there is no way he would have followed Ime
 

The Social Chair

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Werent all of the teams Kobe won with clearly the best teams in the NBA? Like absolutely no doubt they had the most talent?
The 2 teams where he was the best player were absolutely stacked with talent. Gasol, Bynum, Fisher, Odom, Artest (only one year). Shannon Brown was a very good bench wing and Jordan Farmar was a good backup PG
Not a Kobe guy but isn't this even more true for Curry? Last year was might be the only year he didn't have the most talent and won.
 

Ed Hillel

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Nick waited until it became clear the Celtics job wouldn't become available.

Great hire for Philly. I wish Harden had still been there just to see how that would have played out.
 

kazuneko

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Nick waited until it became clear the Celtics job wouldn't become available.

Great hire for Philly. I wish Harden had still been there just to see how that would have played out.
Did the Celts getting blown out today mean that it's clear the Celtics job wouldn't be available or did I miss some type of announcement related to bringing back Mazz...?
 

lovegtm

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Did the Celts getting blown out today mean that it's clear the Celtics job wouldn't be available or did I miss some type of announcement related to bringing back Mazz...?
This was announced before game 7. Imo, it was pretty clear that Joe would be back after seeing he hadn't lost the team in games 4-6. And I seriously doubt that losing a game in which Tatum can't move changes anything at all in that decision-making process, nor should it. Jaylen is going to get much more of a hard look-over from the front office than Mazzulla will, as he should.
 

Cellar-Door

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Nurse, the guy who ran Siakam and FVV into the floor is gonna coach Embiid?
On the positive you could say maybe Embiid will finally have stamina..... on the other end his legs might fall off.
 

Cellar-Door

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Good Lord.
I guess it's just the owner's money, but man.

I thought he'd be a good fit for 2-4 years, he's a culture builder, respected around the league etc... but he's not a good playoff coach once you get there.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Yeesh, ominous. Gotta think a year long suspension is on the table now.

This guy was about to be the face of the NBA. And Nike. Ja 1s still sell out instantly. This is also a guy who’s been repeatedly flashing guns on IG Live after either he himself or someone he was in a car with pointed a fucking gun at opposing team’s employees while on Grizz facilities. Ja Morant ending up as a cautionary tale would be a wild development.
 

Auger34

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Simmons has been INCREDIBLY confident on his podcasts that Kevin Young was getting that job. So much for that
 

ElUno20

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I wonder what additional information they could have uncovered? I assume they had already investigated all of the previous incidents and the newest incident was some random IG Live...
Maybe confirming that insane pacers parking lot story
 

cheech13

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Simmons has been INCREDIBLY confident on his podcasts that Kevin Young was getting that job. So much for that
Confident is an understatement. He set it was a done deal, which was odd, because he usually just alludes to something rather than making a definitive statement.
 

jezza1918

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Confident is an understatement. He set it was a done deal, which was odd, because he usually just alludes to something rather than making a definitive statement.
FWIW -
View: https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/1664672304238821397?s=20

Simmons - "I’m taking the L. Was Kevin Young for a couple weeks, then Ishbia decided he wanted someone splashier and more experienced and shifted gears. What’s interesting is Booker was pushing hard for KY. But Vogel is an excellent coach. Can’t wait to find out what happened."