How long will Chaim last?

When will FSG see the light and fire this guy?


  • Total voters
    308

tims4wins

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Because the front office poll is closed, and because polls are fun.

I'd probably fire him if they are 10 games under on Memorial Day, but I doubt that will happen. My true guess is he gets another offseason, but then gets fired when the 2024 team stinks.

Have at it.
 

tims4wins

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Serious question, but how can they fire him when ownership won't give him the money to sign players? They are just as culpable as Chaim imo.
His reaction to the X signing shows complete incompetence IMO has has nothing to do with money.

Also, they let him pay Story $140M.
 

radsoxfan

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Paying Story 140M seems fine to me given this market.

Seems impossible from the outside to know how much of this is a Chaim issue and how much of this is an ownership issue.

We aren't going to be in the Mets stratosphere, but are the Red Sox expecting to be a top 5 payroll team?
 

snowmanny

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I think he will be gone by August 2024 if they are not competitive by then. It seems unimaginable to me that management would sign off on a three-year drought. And also, for the same reason, I don't believe the "be patient it is a secret five year plan" theories.
 

tims4wins

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Paying Story 140M seems fine to me given this market.

Seems impossible from the outside to know how much of this is a Chaim issue and how much of this is an ownership issue.

We aren't going to be in the Mets stratosphere, but are the Red Sox expecting to be a top 5 payroll team?
I didn’t mean it was a problem or they should fire him because of it, I meant that FSG let him spend that money so to say they won’t let him spend money doesn’t seem 100% accurate.
 

Salem's Lot

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I went with after the 2025 season. Given FSG’s sale of Liverpool and purchase of the Pittsburgh Penguins, I expect them to continue to move away from leagues with no salary caps, and into leagues with more player cost controls. So I voted after 2025 because I’m guessing that the sale will be final some time during the 2025 season, and the new group will hire their own people that off season.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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I’d like an option where things turn around this year and he is retained. I know it’s all doom and gloom here and I get it. I also realize that the off-season isn’t close to over and there are still deals to be made.

EDIT: I voted Bloom Forevah since there wasn’t another option.
 

simplicio

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We aren't going to be in the Mets stratosphere, but are the Red Sox expecting to be a top 5 payroll team?
I hope not, given that Texas, Philly and San Diego have also been throwing around deals I'd want no part of, and I don't expect them to regularly top LAD and MFY.
 

snowmanny

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Paying Story 140M seems fine to me given this market.

Seems impossible from the outside to know how much of this is a Chaim issue and how much of this is an ownership issue.

We aren't going to be in the Mets stratosphere, but are the Red Sox expecting to be a top 5 payroll team?
According to the Rosenthal article in the Athletic this week:

Kennedy said, “We were top five in payroll last year. We’re going to continue to do that.” But according to Fangraphs, the Sox currently rank 12th in cash payroll at $183.6 million and 14th in luxury-tax payroll (based on average annual salaries) at $202.7 million.

edit: I assume this means the answer to your question is yes. Kennedy wouldn’t say that unless he was sure he was going to deliver on it because if he didn’t he would look like an ass.
 

nayrbrey

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I went with after the 2025 season. Given FSG’s sale of Liverpool and purchase of the Pittsburgh Penguins, I expect them to continue to move away from leagues with no salary caps, and into leagues with more player cost controls. So I voted after 2025 because I’m guessing that the sale will be final some time during the 2025 season, and the new group will hire their own people that off season.
Yeah, this is my thought process as well. NBA expansion is in play around 2024 after their new CBA/TV deal. FSG will definitely be a part of a bid for one of the new NBA teams.
 

8slim

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Not knowable. Maybe we exceed expectations in 2023? Maybe ownership has essentially promised him through 2024 to provide reasonable time to get his prospects to the majors?

They gave Cherington nearly 2 years post-2013 and that was with our top prospects already landing on the MLB club.

My hunch is that Chaim is pretty safe for 2 more seasons.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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His usefulness ends when he can’t shield ownership from criticism any longer. It’s already going that way.

Derek Falvey should be the Red Sox next GM/PoBO whenever Bloom is gone.
 

sezwho

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Depends how this year goes.

Yep, that's bingo.

Putting a winning team on the field is his Top Priority, but I remain skeptical so do anticipate his head rolling and voted accordingly.

Would it be fair? Dunno, kinda. Sure he's got owner constraints but he also has many dollars to paper over a problem. I'm pretty convinced everything thats occuring in this Red Sox organization right now is a product of some kind of group/committee think....not inspiring.

He'll get the year, lets hope we are rooting for Red Sox not pitchforks and torches come playoff time.
 

snowmanny

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I'll be shocked if he doesn't have a minimum of two more full seasons. By the end of 2024, ownership should have a good idea of how the farm system has developed, and if it is truly starting to feed the big league team.
Cherington got fired late August 2015. Dombrowski got fired early September 2019.

Even if Bloom has rebuilt the farm system in a positive way, if the big league team isn’t great yet they may very well decide there is a better fit than Bloom for the next phase and send him packing before 2024 is done. That’s how they roll.
 

Delicious Sponge

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According to the Rosenthal article in the Athletic this week:

Kennedy said, “We were top five in payroll last year. We’re going to continue to do that.” But according to Fangraphs, the Sox currently rank 12th in cash payroll at $183.6 million and 14th in luxury-tax payroll (based on average annual salaries) at $202.7 million.
The problem with Rosenthal’s commentary is the off-season isn’t over yet…

More broadly one way or another the issue with spending money isn’t Chaim. Henry wants to spend what he wants to spend and it’s Chaim’s job to work within that. Hard to blame Chaim for directives he gets from his boss.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think he's 100% safe through this next season unless they just absolutely implode. How safe he is beyond that will be determined by how the team does, how his prospects do, the Devers situation, and whether or not he makes any noteworthy trades. I wouldn't be overly comfortable with my job security if I were Chaim but I wouldn't be looking for tall buildings either.
 

Madmartigan

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If there’s further decline in viewership, weak attendance and another last place finish — all well within the realm of possibility — Chaim is gone next offseason.
 

Bigdogx

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Jul 21, 2020
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As long as ignorant fans keep spending $200+ a seat for the sideways facing bleacher seats to watch this trash, they will continue to bargain manage the team this way. Regardless if they spend or don't spend, fans continue to flock to this place, they have truly no incentive anymore to produce a quality lineup. Clearly the ownership base i think has lost interest and have moved on to other ventures, and this is the old toy now, sitting in the closet collecting dust!
 

TheDeuce222

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Serious question, but how can they fire him when ownership won't give him the money to sign players? They are just as culpable as Chaim imo.
Completely agree, but we've seen time and again that this ownership group hires a particular Head of Baseball Ops for a particular reason (i.e. Dombrowski to bring in high-priced talent and get them back to contention, Bloom to cut costs) but then acts in a reactionary fashion to scapegoat someone/bring in the next person in order to get to the next phase of what they're wishing to do now to maximize financial benefit. Obviously, the best possible outcome is that they realize, especially on the heels of the recent 4B purchase of the Phoenix Suns, that the time is ripe to sell, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Kliq

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I think they are going to be pretty bad in 2023, and the scrutiny from the media and the fans is going to be pretty bad and ownership will feel like they have to do something, and so Chaim is axed at the end of the year.
 

benhogan

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As a casual Sox fan these days, I suspect Chaim (& ownership) feel that 10-13yr contracts + approval from Scott Boras models are an inefficient way to build a long-term winner. This will probably lead to them dealing Devers, which will set the radio waves ablaze. BUT probably has little impact on Chaim's immediate tenure.

Chaim will ultimately be graded (by ownership) on his JBJ/Renfroe/Mookie/Pivetta/etc trades, draft picks, young player development, Story/Yoshida/Kike/Jensen deals & late spring FA signings.
 

Rovin Romine

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How long will Chaim last?
Per accepted MLB guidelines, a fresh GM can usually last for up to 6 years if kept in a cool environment in close proximity to a good analytics department.

Some critical consumers report being put off by a slightly stale taste after three years or so - but the GM will not have structurally degraded in any significant way.

After that. . .options range from NY style pickling and the cold and dry air preservation of Northern California, to Miami humidity where even intangibles cannot save you.
 

ngruz25

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Sep 20, 2005
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I've got a strange feeling that Bloom's fate is tied to Yoshida's performance. It was his big, unorthodox swing for the fences. If Yoshida is a failure, then it's fair to seriously question Bloom's judgment.

If the team is mediocre and Yoshida struggles to adjust but shows signs of life, maybe Bloom gets to steer the team into 2024. If the team is mediocre and Yoshida is a Rusney-like disaster, I think Bloom is canned in the off-season.

If the team stinks because the rotation falls apart, but Yoshida proves to be a canny addition, maybe Bloom gets a pass.
 

snowmanny

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As long as ignorant fans keep spending $200+ a seat for the sideways facing bleacher seats to watch this trash, they will continue to bargain manage the team this way. Regardless if they spend or don't spend, fans continue to flock to this place, they have truly no incentive anymore to produce a quality lineup. Clearly the ownership base i think has lost interest and have moved on to other ventures, and this is the old toy now, sitting in the closet collecting dust!
Ignorant fans? OK, sure. The Sox have been a pretty good bang for the buck historically. And the NESN ratings turn on being competitive (and maybe star power too; it would make sense) so the owners not giving a damn even if the tickets sell seems pretty far off.

Is this a real post? Maybe it’s sarcasm or a burner and I’m missing something.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Cherington got fired late August 2015. Dombrowski got fired early September 2019.

Even if Bloom has rebuilt the farm system in a positive way, if the big league team isn’t great yet they may very well decide there is a better fit than Bloom for the next phase and send him packing before 2024 is done. That’s how they roll.
Small little nit, but Cherington wasn't fired. Dombrowski was hired to be President above him, not to replace him. Cherington chose to leave on his own since he lost autonomy. I think the original plan was to have the two of them work together.
 

NDame616

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Serious question, but how can they fire him when ownership won't give him the money to sign players? They are just as culpable as Chaim imo.
Because that's how it works. You trade/replace players first, then the coaches, then the GM. Henry et al aren't firing themselves. So even if them and Chaim are working in complete concert with their plans to cut payroll and be "competitive", the GM gets fired and ownership blames him for lack of progress in the program.
 

BringBackMo

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What's the over/under on additional "how bad does Bloom/ownership suck ass?" polls between now and opening day? I think this is the fourth one since the offseason began, but I could be miscounting. I think the line for new ones before the season starts should be set at 4. Who's taking the over, who's taking the under, and why?
 

Green Monster

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I think about my own company. We had a VP of Operations who was brought on to transform the company towards a Lean Manufacturing mentality. He came in and turned everything upside down. Despite sound principles being implemented, very good people who didn't agree with the changes quit the company. Eventually the business climate deteriorated to the point that he was fired. Machinists literally stood in the aisle applauding as he was walked out. Years later, our company is better for the changes he made but there was no way he was going to survive it.

I think Chaim will be around until the dirty work is done (Departure of Betts, Xander, Devers). Once Devers is traded or leaves via FA then the Sox will move on.
 

tims4wins

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Depends how this year goes.
I mean, that's obvious. The question is more, how do you think this year will go, and what will be Bloom's fate?

So for the sake of the question, say the big club goes 76-86, spends most / all the year in last place, while the minor league system continues to steadily improve, up to say the 5-7 range in the rankings. They trade a couple spare parts at the deadline for some minor leaguers, no one highly ranked, trying to strike lightning. Does he get another year?
 

jasail

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To me, 2023 is going to be a throw away season, I just can't see how this team can compete with the talent on the roster. IMO, Chaim is going to get a pass on this year and where the rubber meets the road is going to be the shape of the roster going into 2024 and performance with that roster. Eventually, Chaim will be hung out to dry, whether for his failures or the sins of ownership.
 

jtn46

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I think he will be gone by August 2024 if they are not competitive by then. It seems unimaginable to me that management would sign off on a three-year drought. And also, for the same reason, I don't believe the "be patient it is a secret five year plan" theories.
A three-year drought of what? WS titles? The Red Sox are going to be an org that turns overs its front office every 3 years it doesn’t win a WS? They were in the ALCS in 2021.
 

JM3

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I still trust the process & think we're moving in a good direction toward sustainability. There are some things that give me pause in terms of some of the reporting on reactions to X which if true are pretty wtf, & I don't really like the way they are handling the PR of these things, but I think things will be fine this season & they'll let this continue to develop.

My question for all the people who dislike Bloom is...what do you want in a new GM if we fire Bloom?

For me, if they fire Bloom, I would want someone else with a similar background & similar patience & desire to find surplus value...but maybe someone less fallible & more aggressive in getting ahead of things - like making a real offer for X prior to free agency, or not making the Renfroe trade until after having a legitimate replacement lined up.

I want to build something sustainable in the Astros/Yankees/Dodgers mold, & that stuff takes time & patience. I think the fan base would have more patience for this if the messaging was better, & I think they could have gotten away with things like selling JD etc. for spare parts & getting under the tax if they weren't trying to serve all masters at once.
 

tims4wins

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To me, 2023 is going to be a throw away season, I just can't see how this team can compete with the talent on the roster. IMO, Chaim is going to get a pass on this year and where the rubber meets the road is going to be the shape of the roster going into 2024 and performance with that roster. Eventually, Chaim will be hung out to dry, whether for his failures or the sins of ownership.
It struck me reading this that there are a lot of similarities between the Chaim situation and the Mac Jones situation.
 

billy ashley

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I voted Bloom forever, but that's because there was no appropriate option for "we'll have to see how this season goes, and how the team is positioned going forward."

If this is a bridge year (it sure feels like it) but they position themselves to re-open a serous contender window by season's end, I think most folks would be happy with that. Bloom has had an incredibly unusual start to his career here. Pandemic + trade Betts mandate and the CBA shortened off-season last year. This is his first, "normal" off-season.

Has it been successful? I don't know. It depends on what the goals are. If the goals are to win a world series in 2023, the answer is clearly no. But I don't think they'd have behaved the way they have if that was the goal.

Finally, you're only as good as your dance partner. Ownership likely has a lot of influence on what the org is doing, right now.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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As long as ignorant fans keep spending $200+ a seat for the sideways facing bleacher seats to watch this trash, they will continue to bargain manage the team this way. Regardless if they spend or don't spend, fans continue to flock to this place, they have truly no incentive anymore to produce a quality lineup. Clearly the ownership base i think has lost interest and have moved on to other ventures, and this is the old toy now, sitting in the closet collecting dust!
Which sideways facing bleacher seats are those?

And the stadium was already less than full the past couple years and the resale market is already tanked
 

jasail

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It struck me reading this that there are a lot of similarities between the Chaim situation and the Mac Jones situation.
Not to derail this thread into a BBtL thread, but I think Mac may be out well before the end of next season. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Bill sits him for the rest of the year. I think the situation is becoming pretty untenable between the QB and HC/Coaching Staff and we may be approaching RKK having to choose one or the other. Chaim, IMO, has a bit more runway b/c he's doing the bidding of the owners.
 

E5 Yaz

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Next poll: Who will be gone from their team first ... Chaim with the Red Sox or Mac with the Patriots?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The posters looking beyond Bloom are right imo. Chaim is just the bag person for FSG. The reality is that they don't appear to have the resources and/or the will to play in the FA talent market.

Maybe that's the smart play (for them, I want my owners to buy wins as much as possible) but the Red Sox just aren't a player for premium talent for whatever reason. And Chaim Bloom doesn't control their budget. He just has to take the arrows for how relatively limited it is vs the contenders.
 

jteders1

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Dec 5, 2022
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I said next off-season. Based on the managements track record, they really don't have a problem pulling a plug too early rather than too late. Looking at how the roster is presently constructed, I just don't see a team that could make the playoffs, even in this expanded format. We get to the next offseason and it's going to be absolutely critical, due to the disaster of this offseason, and especially if we still have Devers and are kicking off negotiations. Do you want Chain Bloom handling that...based on what we've seen so far, absolutely not.
 

Jungleland

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As much as I tend to agree that the reaction to the Xander deal suggests he's not fit for the job, I think the right move is to see the current plan through next offseason. If things look as dire as they do now a year from today, I think he very much should be gone. I voted sometime during this season, however - I think this year's potential Fenway emptiness is being severely underestimated, and it would not shock me if they cut bait early as a result.