Gordon Hayward 2018-2019: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

benhogan

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I wasn’t annoyed – it was just that the timing of the post was right after he’d driven to the hoop pretty hard and put up (made?) an open three. Admittedly, I didn’t know he had taken so few shots at that point.

Generally, I think he looks really good when he gets the ball right now. Does he need to take it inside more? Yes. But that’s more decision making and, yes, maybe design than inability.
bad verbiage on my part...I should have used "questioned" instead of annoyed

Gordon did turn it on precisely as I was typing that comment last night. So Gordon did get more involved. I guess I have to appreciate that he doesn't force many bad shots/passes

Whenever he does have a big game it seems like a lot of his fellow players celebrate, its as if they are wanting him to be a dominant presence in the lineup (which is a good thing)
 

reggiecleveland

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If he is physically better, I am getting drawn back in, when I thought I was out. The stars shared show they win when he plays well. So there is still a chance for a run here.
 

DrewDawg

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And even though the latest % is unsustainable, there’s something real here. He was clanking shots early in the year, missing really badly. Now it looks like his legs are under him.
Yes. Completely anecdotal, but now a lot of his misses seem to rim out as opposed to hard clanks off the back rim. It just *looks* smoother.
 

lovegtm

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A lot of nice drives for G last night where he drove hard into contact, stopped hard, and finished. He looks really decisive on the catch now, and a lot more confident in his ability to make good things happen near the hoop.
 
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tbb345

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A lot of nice drives for G last night where he drove hard into contact, stopped hard, and finished. He looks really decisive on the catch now, and a lot more confident in his ability to make good things happen near the hoop.
After he got called for that foul on DeAaron Fox, he got pissed off and really turned it on/got aggressive.
Was nice to see, he needs to play pissed off like that more.
 

DrewDawg

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Yeah, we're just about at the point now if he has a bad game I think more "Well, that sucks, but it happens." as opposed to "He's still hurt!!!!!!"
 

Kliq

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I was at the game last night and was really hoping to see good Hayward. The first half we got bad Hayward, and I was ready to write him off for the night. Instead in the second half we got an aggressive, determined Hayward and it was delicious. Looking back on it, he could have just had a lousy few minutes in the first half, and I overreacted and just assumed he was going to suck for the rest of the game. The fact that he bounced back and looked great later in the game is very encouraging.
 

Strike4

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I was at the game last night and was really hoping to see good Hayward. The first half we got bad Hayward, and I was ready to write him off for the night. Instead in the second half we got an aggressive, determined Hayward and it was delicious. Looking back on it, he could have just had a lousy few minutes in the first half, and I overreacted and just assumed he was going to suck for the rest of the game. The fact that he bounced back and looked great later in the game is very encouraging.
Seems to be the next stage in his progression. The aggressiveness was effective in the sense that he was getting to the free throw line, but it reminded me of Jaylen Brown a year or so ago: still honing, a bit reckless, needs to finish better. Hopefully the next stage is the right balance of aggressiveness and finesse. Hopefully very soon.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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He's in concussion protocol. Hopefully it's just for a few games and he can play the last several as one final tune up before the playoffs.
 

ifmanis5

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You may fire when ready... he's back, baby!
He looks strong and confident. Getting to the line, playing through contact. It's happening.
 

Devizier

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He's definitely been a different player, a lot more aggressiveness, much more of the Paul Pierce guile than I expected.
 

TripleOT

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I like when he has the ball up top with a live dribble and a big covering him. He can put a lot of pressure on the defense with his driving ability (now that he's actually finishing and picking up foul calls when driving through contact), and his pull up jumper is pretty true. he also is good at finding open teammates for the three when he draws help defenders.

Assuming it continues, it looks like the braintrust's plan to bring him along during the long regular season was a smart one. The Celtics now have four players who can face up and break down a defender effectively at a high level, in Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward, something very important in the playoffs. Hopefully, we will see last year's playoff Tatum.
 

sezwho

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Assuming it continues, it looks like the braintrust's plan to bring him along during the long regular season was a smart one. The Celtics now have four players who can face up and break down a defender effectively at a high level, in Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward, something very important in the playoffs. Hopefully, we will see last year's playoff Tatum.
Yup, force feeding him minutes almost as part of his rehab may have frustrated the young guns scrapping for minutes but it does seem like the long game is paying off. He has been on again/off again all season off course but the duty cycle is going the right direction.

GH was much more consistently physical last night and it really does create a different kind of pressure. Perhaps this will also create more chances for Tatum to get more touches in the flow of the offense instead feeling like its another hero-ball attempt...
 

amfox1

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GH since coming back from the concussion:

7 games, 202 min, 40-68 FG, 6-17 3PT, 29-33 FT, 43 REB, 20 AST, 115 PTS

(per G) 28.9 min, 58.8% FG, 35.3% 3PT, 87.9% FT, 6.1 REB, 2.9 AST, 16.4 PTS
(per 36)...................................................................., 7.6 REB, 3.6 AST, 20.4 PTS

2016-17 (per 36) 47.1% FG, 39.8% 3PT, 84.4% FT, 5.6 REB, 3.7 AST, 22.9 PTS
 

lovegtm

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It's nice that his recent good run hasn't just been hot 3-pt shooting, although he's getting a lot of midrangers in the lane to fall.
 

Ed Hillel

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Maybe the leg injury was never really that bad and he just had a few screws loose in his head that the concussion knocked back into place.

Just something to think about.
 

DrewDawg

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There was a play late where there was a nice cross court pass from Kyrie to Wanamaker for a layup and if you watch the replay, Hayward, who was running down the middle of the court with the Kyrie on his left, pointed out the pass and cutting Wanamaker. Ball delivered. Layup.

Here it is, about 8:35 into this video:

 
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bosox79

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If this is the Hayward we get in the playoffs and we make it to at least the ECF, it will have to impact Kyrie's decision to stay and AD's decision to sign a long term deal in Boston.

And as someone else mentioned, in any GS trade for Kevin Durant. A healthy Hayward may even allow us to keep one of Tatum or Brown or both. Not sure if GS would receive a better "win now" player than a healthy Hayward in any Durant deal and it's definitely a better return than nothing.
 

lovegtm

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He's just about all the way back now. Playing with confidence, even at the end of games. Trending up at the right time.
Just as importantly, they’re also running plays for him at the end of games. I know he’s good with the bench, but he, Kyrie and Horford need to be together more. With some combo of Morris/Tatum/Brown around them, they’re really really hard to stop.
 

lovegtm

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Underrated storyline here is that if Gordon starts to really look good the next few weeks, that could shift Kyrie's thinking re AD as an absolute necessity. Which in turn would give Ainge more leverage in those negotiations, if he's not getting desperate and trying to avoid losing Kyrie for nothing.
 

kazuneko

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Underrated storyline here is that if Gordon starts to really look good the next few weeks, that could shift Kyrie's thinking re AD as an absolute necessity. Which in turn would give Ainge more leverage in those negotiations, if he's not getting desperate and trying to avoid losing Kyrie for nothing.
Though the key to that isn't just Gordon playing better, it's Gordon playing better and the Cs surging to the Finals. Heck, even if he doesn't play that much better, if the Cs can make it to the Finals Kyrie might reconsider his feelings about this team and I don't think that even if we see a revitalized Heyward in the Bucks series it's going to affect Kyrie's thinking unless this leads to a series win.
 

joe dokes

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He's just about all the way back now. Playing with confidence, even at the end of games. Trending up at the right time.
The play where he reset nearly back to halfcourt to take on the mismatch was the single most confident thing he's done all season. I have to admit to a moment of "what the hell is he doing?" But then he just ate the defender's soul.
 

Wilco's Last Fan

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The play where he reset nearly back to halfcourt to take on the mismatch was the single most confident thing he's done all season. I have to admit to a moment of "what the hell is he doing?" But then he just ate the defender's soul.
Love that every time he got Turner switched onto him, he pulled back to ensure he got the ISO and then surgically roasted him (first by driving and drawing the and-1, which made Turner sag more the second time, and then by using the space to drain a 3). That was pure max guy stuff.
 

DrewDawg

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Love that every time he got Turner switched onto him, he pulled back to ensure he got the ISO and then surgically roasted him (first by driving and drawing the and-1, which made Turner sag more the second time, and then by using the space to drain a 3). That was pure max guy stuff.
That was also "Oh, you fucking dunked on me in the first quarter? Fine. Let me end your season."
 

Montana Fan

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Utah GH had 7 years to get a high comfort level with the players that surrounded him. Our GH has had one regular season after coming back from one of the worst NBA injuries I've seen. Getting comfortable with a new team, as you come off an injury and are not the main focus of the team, has clearly been challenging. Combine his fitting into what the team is doing + increased health = GH looking real good at both ends.

“I think, physically, I feel way better now than I did at the beginning of the season,” Hayward added. “I think, more than anything though, having reps and having experience with this team. Getting a chance to play with these guys and trying to figure out strengths and where guys like to be on the court, what they like to do in different situations.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Utah GH had 7 years to get a high comfort level with the players that surrounded him. Our GH has had one regular season after coming back from one of the worst NBA injuries I've seen. Getting comfortable with a new team, as you come off an injury and are not the main focus of the team, has clearly been challenging. Combine his fitting into what the team is doing + increased health = GH looking real good at both ends.
All those minutes that Brad played GH when he was, frankly, probably not a replacement level player are paying off though. Good thing Brad takes the long view of things.
 

InstaFace

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All those minutes that Brad played GH when he was, frankly, probably not a replacement level player are paying off though. Good thing Brad takes the long view of things.
It would not be pretty for us to go back through this year's gamethreads and pull out all the times people called for him to be benched, traded, or fired out of a cannon. A few people kept the faith all the way through - Brad Stevens chief among them, thankfully - but it seemed like people digested the "it'll take a full year of playing for him to get back" at the start of the season intellectually, and then the first time their emotions barked up, they were prepared to ignore everything except the rough game they'd just witnessed.

Same reason short-term investors who trade a lot all lose in the stock market, I suppose.
 

lovegtm

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All those minutes that Brad played GH when he was, frankly, probably not a replacement level player are paying off though. Good thing Brad takes the long view of things.
Rozier had a quote to similar effect yesterday, something like “the team invested a lot in Gordon this year and it’s paying off now.”
 

NomarsFool

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All those minutes that Brad played GH when he was, frankly, probably not a replacement level player are paying off though. Good thing Brad takes the long view of things.
I'm really glad it worked out, but there are lots of examples where it doesn't. There are many, many players who just never come back - even without injuries - and the teams that continued to invest in them made bad decisions in hindsight. For every Gordon who comes back and regains form (and let's be honest, he's still not where he was) I think there are many more that don't.
 

Red Averages

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What was the risk/reward here?

Risk: Anger some players that could otherwise be getting more minutes. Cost yourself ~3 wins in the standings (so maybe 2 spots in the standings).
Reward: Have a near MAX player in your lineup for the postseason and beyond. Don't have a black hole in your salary cap for years to come.

Seemed like an easy decision for those mentally tough enough to not want to cut him or send him to the D league as he progressed -- and he clearly was progressing, just not on a linear path.
 

lovegtm

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I'm really glad it worked out, but there are lots of examples where it doesn't. There are many, many players who just never come back - even without injuries - and the teams that continued to invest in them made bad decisions in hindsight. For every Gordon who comes back and regains form (and let's be honest, he's still not where he was) I think there are many more that don't.
Plenty of guys who are in that 22-28 age range and have severe injuries come back just fine--Gordon's recovery was actually relatively slow. Paul George, Caris LaVert, I could go on.

Things like big men foot injuries or Achilles injuries are another thing entirely, but given the injury and his age it was totally reasonable of the team to a) calculate the risk/reward, as Red Averages notes and b) to assume he could become 90% of himself by the playoffs, which is about where he seems to be.
 

bowiac

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Plenty of guys who are in that 22-28 age range and have severe injuries come back just fine--Gordon's recovery was actually relatively slow. Paul George, Caris LaVert, I could go on.
George arguably didn't come back until this year. His defensive metrics in particular showed a major decline. LeVert's injury was not nearly as severe.
 

InstaFace

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I'm really glad it worked out, but there are lots of examples where it doesn't. There are many, many players who just never come back - even without injuries - and the teams that continued to invest in them made bad decisions in hindsight. For every Gordon who comes back and regains form (and let's be honest, he's still not where he was) I think there are many more that don't.
The single closest comp to his injury was Paul George. Who was under MVP consideration earlier this year, and still may have a top-5 finish.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. Yes, injuries derail careers. Does that in any way impact the way the team went about things, or should have? Do you disagree with WBCD at all?
 

maufman

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All those minutes that Brad played GH when he was, frankly, probably not a replacement level player are paying off though. Good thing Brad takes the long view of things.
Yup. Though in fairness, there was a little luck involved — if Oladipo doesn’t get hurt, the C’s are a 5 seed playing Philly in the first round, and Brad’s “long view” doesn’t look quite as inspired.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yup. Though in fairness, there was a little luck involved — if Oladipo doesn’t get hurt, the C’s are a 5 seed playing Philly in the first round, and Brad’s “long view” doesn’t look quite as inspired.
Unless, of course, they beat PHI, which I think this group would do.

I will say that I suspect that if Brad had to do it again, he'd bring GH off the bench from the get go. But in his - and everyone else's defense - no one really has gone through this before and I bet they weren't thinking it would take GH four months to get back to this point physically.