Game 3 Jets, game balls

[teddykgb]

You can never really know what the idea was but I thought Jones really under threw a few balls.

In general I think his receivers are catching too much blame. He just doesn’t have the arm strength to fit throws down field into tight NFL windows and seems to have an awful habit of throwing off balance which is an awful idea for a guy who throws as he does. The decisions to throw longer passes on multiple third downs were all pretty rough and at least poorly executed. But really it’s mostly the arm strength thing for me, the ball is just in the air a beat or two longer than usual for the NFL and it puts a lot of pressure on the receivers to make plays in traffic and leads to lower YAC opportunities. Wilson shows you that having the arm is clearly not enough but I just don’t think Jones can pick up the 3rd and medium/long type situation with enough frequency to not make them need to be perfect on offense. As it stands pretty much every penalty or negative play leads to a high likelihood of a punt. That is surely true across the board but I think it’s an especially difficult vulnerability of his.

 

[TheRooster]

The D did their job well, which was to shut down a lousy offense. Every unit did their job.

Also kudos to Barringer, who did a nice job keeping the Jets in poor field position.

The Pharoah.

Super impressed with Barringer. His ability to avoid touch backs today was noteworthy

 

[BaseballJones]

One thing I'm really excited about is how well the defense is playing without getting many turnovers. That means that they can get stops just by keeping the other team from getting first downs. I love turnovers, and they are obviously ENORMOUSLY helpful in winning games. But if you are relying on getting turnovers to get stops, that bodes very poorly for games where you can't generate turnovers. This team is stifling opponents without getting many turnovers at all (2 in 3 games). Imagine when they DO get turnovers.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

This guy:

 

[Saints Rest]

Down 3 of our better corners and you never would have known. Defense has been masterful this year.
Game balls to Gonzo, Judon, Peppers, Dugger and the D coaches.

I call it “Keeping up Without the Joneses.”

 

[Mooch]

No game balls in a five point win against the Jets.

The Pats were 2.5 point favorites.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

If the Pats had put up the Dolphins' score today, I am sure people would be complaining about the D or something --- "How can you let them score 20 points? When they face a real team it will come back to bite them."

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I don’t think so. The concern about the Patriots has always been with the offense, and that they can’t score enough points. Another low scoring win over a backup QB doesn’t really change the narrative. Of course, a win is a win and next week is a good opportunity.

 

[8slim]

If the Pats had put up the Dolphins' score today, I am sure people would be complaining about the D or something --- "How can you let them score 20 points? When they face a real team it will come back to bite them."

I mean, it’s the Internet so you can always find a couple of trolls who are complaining.

The Pats have yet to put up todays Dolphins score in three games, so I’d say the ongoing consternation about the O is warranted.

*edit* if the Pats score 17 next week they STILL wouldn’t have scored in 2023 what the Phins scored today. Man.

 

[Dogman]

And if the Cowboys put up less, we are 2-2. It doesn't in season context that Miami put up 70 on a bad Broncos team.

 

[8slim]

And if the Cowboys put up less, we are 2-2. It doesn't in season context that Miami put up 70 on a bad Broncos team.

Yeah I can do math too. Just saying that I doubt anyone would be complaining if we scored SEVENTY today. Very controversial I know.

 

[Saints Rest]

The Dolphins putting up 70 today should make us appreciate the D’s work last week.

meanwhile, I’ll add a game ball for 15 in a row. Awwwwwww yeahhhh

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean, it’s the Internet so you can always find a couple of trolls who are complaining.

The Pats have yet to put up todays Dolphins score in three games, so I’d say the ongoing consternation about the O is warranted.

*edit* if the Pats score 17 next week they STILL wouldn’t have scored in 2023 what the Phins scored today. Man.

out of curiosity I checked... the last 3 game streak that totaled 70 points on offense... (so 23.3 average... which is slightly above league average which is usually around 22 give or take?)......
The Zappemania 3 game stretch.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Good stuff from Lazar, pre-film study:

https://www.patriots.com/news/game-observations-eight-takeaways-from-a-much-needed-win-for-the-patriots-jets

He notes Mac being 0-5 on longer pass attempts without mentioning the WR was tackled with no flag on one.

 

[BaseballJones]

out of curiosity I checked... the last 3 game streak that totaled 70 points on offense... (so 23.3 average... which is slightly above league average which is usually around 22 give or take?)......
The Zappemania 3 game stretch.

Only counts as one win, whether you win by 50 or 5.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Only counts as one win, whether you win by 50 or 5.

Fortune cookie inanity aside... we haven't won much because we can't consistently score points. That we haven't had 3 above average scoring games in a row in close to a year is not good. We don't need to score 70, but it was just an interesting launching point to look back at our general ineptness on offense for the last almost year.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Fortune cookie inanity aside... we haven't won much because we can't consistently score points. That we haven't had 3 above average scoring games in a row in close to a year is not good. We don't need to score 70, but it was just an interesting launching point to look back at our general ineptness on offense for the last almost year.

And I am betting they won't put up 40 against Dallas next week. But I'll take another 15-10 win gladly.

 

[Cellar-Door]

And I am betting they won't put up 40 against Dallas next week. But I'll take another 15-10 win gladly.

sure... except... what happens when Dallas scores 16? This idea that because we won a game against a terrible opponent having the same flaws that caused us to lose the previous 2 games (and many games last year) doesn't matter is so stupid. The offense being bad is a concern, because it's a pattern.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

sure... except... what happens when Dallas scores 16? This idea that because we won a game against a terrible opponent having the same flaws that caused us to lose the previous 2 games (and many games last year) doesn't matter is so stupid. The offense being bad is a concern, because it's a pattern.

If Dallas scores 16, then I don't think NE wins 15-10. But almost certainly NE goes for 4d more often. They trusted their D today for the win. I am sure people hated the punt late in the 4th, but it resulted in points. Because of the defense. That led to needing a TD rather than a FG to tie, which changed end of game.

 

[BaseballJones]

Fortune cookie inanity aside... we haven't won much because we can't consistently score points. That we haven't had 3 above average scoring games in a row in close to a year is not good. We don't need to score 70, but it was just an interesting launching point to look back at our general ineptness on offense for the last almost year.

Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt that the offense..just isn't very good. Or at least they have a hard time scoring points (which, of course, is the entire POINT).

Last 3 seasons, points scored by NE:

2021: 16, 25, 13, 17, 25, 29, 54, 27, 24, 45, 25, 36, 14, 17, 21, 50, 24, 17
2022: 7, 17, 26, 24, 29, 38, 14, 22, 26, 10, 26, 10, 27, 24, 18, 23, 23
2023: 20, 17, 15

38 games
30+ points: 5 (13.2%)
24-29 points: 14 (36.8%)
17-23 points: 10 (26.3%)
10-16 points: 8 (21.1%)
<10 points: 1 (2.6%)

 

[joe dokes]

Super impressed with Barringer. His ability to avoid touch backs today was noteworthy

Whether its him or the coaching, it seems as though he is perfectly happy to get the FC at the 10 or so with almost no chance of the ball going in to the EZ, and not try for the perfect wedge shot to land at the 1 with backspin, but with a high risk of the touchback.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Whether its him or the coaching, it seems as though he is perfectly happy to get the FC at the 10 or so with almost no chance of the ball going in to the EZ, and not try for the perfect wedge shot to land at the 1 with backspin, but with a high risk of the touchback.

There were a couple, I think going with the wind (I was behind and trying to catch up on Fubo) where he hit a low liner-- make it a very dangerous return, but get a good roll out. I am going to believe that was on purpose.

 

[Bergs]

Provided the OL can mimic what they did for a lot of today, we should learn a lot about this team next week. DAL is good, but obviously beatable.

 

[Bergs]

If Dallas scores 16, then I don't think NE wins 15-10. But almost certainly NE goes for 4d more often. They trusted their D today for the win. I am sure people hated the punt late in the 4th, but it resulted in points. Because of the defense. That led to needing a TD rather than a FG to tie, which changed end of game.

Personally, I am completely throwing last year out for any meaningful evaluation of anything (other than BB's pretty obvious fuckup of putting Matty P and JJ in charge of the offense).

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Can we all agree that Joe Judge is an upgrade on the special teams side? Like, lets all bond together over something?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Provided the OL can mimic what they did for a lot of today, we should learn a lot about this team next week. DAL is good, but obviously beatable.

Their DL got pushed around quite a bit by AZ. That was pretty shocking to me.

 

[Bergs]

Can we all agree that Joe Judge is an upgrade on the special teams side? Like, lets all bond together over something?

Oh, fuck yes.

 

[Just a bit outside]

You can never really know what the idea was but I thought Jones really under threw a few balls.

In general I think his receivers are catching too much blame. He just doesn’t have the arm strength to fit throws down field into tight NFL windows and seems to have an awful habit of throwing off balance which is an awful idea for a guy who throws as he does. The decisions to throw longer passes on multiple third downs were all pretty rough and at least poorly executed. But really it’s mostly the arm strength thing for me, the ball is just in the air a beat or two longer than usual for the NFL and it puts a lot of pressure on the receivers to make plays in traffic and leads to lower YAC opportunities. Wilson shows you that having the arm is clearly not enough but I just don’t think Jones can pick up the 3rd and medium/long type situation with enough frequency to not make them need to be perfect on offense. As it stands pretty much every penalty or negative play leads to a high likelihood of a punt. That is surely true across the board but I think it’s an especially difficult vulnerability of his.

I mentioned in the game thread that Mac kept throwing back shoulder passes and the wide receivers acted as though they had no idea it was coming. Not sure who is at fault on those plays.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Gonzo. He's eliminating big-time playmakers every week and giving this team a chance to win.

 

[Silverdude2167]

The O-Line, if they played like this last week, they beat the Dolphins.

This team has potential, they just need to round into form sooner rather than later.

 

[lexrageorge]

Gonzalez: anyone who criticizes this pick (cough, Bedard, cough) can be safety considered an idiot when it comes to football.

Judon and the defense overall: 2 points is 2 points.

Pharaoh Brown: did his job

Did the game answer any questions about Mac? No, but that was not unexpected either. The receivers are still shit, and the OL play is uneven on a good day. But a win on the road against a divisional opponent in a monsoon is never a bad thing.

 

[brendan f]

Classic eye of the beholder game. A realist would say the offense was bad, and showed us more of what they have shown throughout the year so far. An optimist would say there were encouraging signs that the offense is getting on track––improved O-line play, a better running attack, more offensive diversity with use of play-action (which leads to our best play of the season). Also the weather was shitty.

Belichick also didn't help. With 4th and a foot well over the fifty he opted to punt. it ended up leading to the only decent Jets' drive of the game. Of course, he couldn't have known that but he decided to rest on his defense in a close game rather than push the offensive gas. He does this a lot, and it leads to making games closer than they should be.

 

[Justthetippett]

Classic eye of the beholder game. A realistic would say the offense was bad, and showed us more of what they have shown throughout the year so far. An optimist would say there were encouraging signs that the offense is getting on track––improved O-line play, a better running attack, more offensive diversity with use of play-action (which leads to our best play of the season). Also the weather was shitty.

Belichick also didn't help. With 4th and a foot well over the fifty he opted to punt. it ended up leading to the only decent Jets' drive of the game. Of course, he couldn't have known that but he decided to rest on his defense in a close game rather than push the offensive gas. He does this a lot, and it leads to making games closer than they should be.

At that time they were up by 10 and the Jets had barely moved the ball a foot their last three possessions. Relying on the defense was the right call. They just didn't execute. I do agree BB does this quite a bit. It's consistent with his "don't lose games" philosophy, which is fundamentally conservative but also has served him pretty well.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

At that time they were up by 10 and the Jets had barely moved the ball a foot their last three possessions. Relying on the defense was the right call. They just didn't execute. I do agree BB does this quite a bit. It's consistent with his "don't lose games" philosophy, which is fundamentally conservative but also has served him pretty well.

If you don’t lose games, you tend to win a bunch.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Classic eye of the beholder game. A realistic would say the offense was bad, and showed us more of what they have shown throughout the year so far. An optimist would say there were encouraging signs that the offense is getting on track––improved O-line play, a better running attack, more offensive diversity with use of play-action (which leads to our best play of the season). Also the weather was shitty.

Belichick also didn't help. With 4th and a foot well over the fifty he opted to punt. it ended up leading to the only decent Jets' drive of the game. Of course, he couldn't have known that but he decided to rest on his defense in a close game rather than push the offensive gas. He does this a lot, and it leads to making games closer than they should be.

Belichick probably figured that the only way he was going to lose the game from that point was to turn it over on fourth down and give the Jets a short field, and a chance for a quick TD drive to make it 13-10. Then a stop with their excellent defense and a drive for a tying FG or winning touchdown. I absolutely go along with the punt.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Belichick probably figured that the only way he was going to lose the game from that point was to turn it over on fourth down and give the Jets a short field, and a chance for a quick TD drive to make it 13-10. Then a stop with their excellent defense and a drive for a tying FG or winning touchdown. I absolutely go along with the punt.

Yeah, people shitting on the decision to punt instead of go for it on 4th and 1 when the other team has shown no ability to move the ball at all vs your defense are crazy.

 

[ShaneTrot]

This game was BB's perfect game. He won with his defense and special teams. The problem is it's 2023 and all the best teams overwhelm you with their potent offense. I would rather have a top-ten offense and a middling defense than a top-five defense and a bottom-of-the-basement scoring offense.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Whether its him or the coaching, it seems as though he is perfectly happy to get the FC at the 10 or so with almost no chance of the ball going in to the EZ, and not try for the perfect wedge shot to land at the 1 with backspin, but with a high risk of the touchback.

I just wonder why they aren't using the sidelines on punts in which he isn't using all of his leg. I feel like this kid is good enough to punt one out of bounds inside the 15, at worst, whenever he wants from those spots on the field. Why even take the chance on a touchback or a return?

There's gotta be some analysis on sideline kicks like that I haven't seen.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

This game was BB's perfect game. He won with his defense and special teams. The problem is it's 2023 and all the best teams overwhelm you with their potent offense. I would rather have a top-ten offense and a middling defense than a top-five defense and a bottom-of-the-basement scoring offense.

I agree completely. I'd rather have a top ten offense and a middling defense too, because with BB, he's usually going to turn a middling defense into a top 10 defense on game plans alone. Seems like he's been building rosters for years with middling offenses and top 5 defenses (which was easy to do when Brady was able to turn a middling offense into a top 5-10 offense).

 

[Silverdude2167]

I agree completely. I'd rather have a top ten offense and a middling defense too, because with BB, he's usually going to turn a middling defense into a top 10 defense on game plans alone. Seems like he's been building rosters for years with middling offenses and top 5 defenses (which was easy to do when Brady was able to turn a middling offense into a top 5-10 offense).

This is the best explanation of the power of BB and TB together I have ever seen.

 

[BaseballJones]

This is the best explanation of the power of BB and TB together I have ever seen.

Agreed. Nice work @Deathofthebambino

Here's the thing. Obviously tons of teams won with a great QB and modest coach. Others have won with a great coach and non-star QB. But NOBODY ever won six Super Bowls together. The reason they did was because it was the perfect storm of the GOAT quarterback combined with the GOAT head coach. They covered for each other. They helped each other grow and improve. They got the best out of each other. And the results were the greatest 20 year run in NFL history.

 

[brendan f]

At that time they were up by 10 and the Jets had barely moved the ball a foot their last three possessions. Relying on the defense was the right call. They just didn't execute. I do agree BB does this quite a bit. It's consistent with his "don't lose games" philosophy, which is fundamentally conservative but also has served him pretty well.

My point is people are complaining the offense barely put up any points but when you have a coach who plays ultra-conservatively, he's asking for few points and basically asking for the game to be close. Similarly, the problem with a "don't lose games" philosophy is that you actually give your team a greater chance to lose (with an unforced error or a fluke) because the game is still close when your team could have put it away. We almost saw it at the end of this game with the Hail Mary.

 

[8slim]

This game was BB's perfect game. He won with his defense and special teams. The problem is it's 2023 and all the best teams overwhelm you with their potent offense. I would rather have a top-ten offense and a middling defense than a top-five defense and a bottom-of-the-basement scoring offense.

Agreed. Even very good defenses eventually give up points in today’s NFL. The game is purpose built to favor offense.

Last year’s Wind Bowl vs. Buffalo was BB’s vision of football perfection.

 

[lexrageorge]

I just wonder why they aren't using the sidelines on punts in which he isn't using all of his leg. I feel like this kid is good enough to punt one out of bounds inside the 15, at worst, whenever he wants from those spots on the field. Why even take the chance on a touchback or a return?

There's gotta be some analysis on sideline kicks like that I haven't seen.

He did punt out the sideline after the Pats last drive.

It’s difficult to control where a punt goes out of bounds and even harder to control what the officials see. Punt the short ones high enough and the result is likely a fair catch.

 

[Justthetippett]

Agreed. Even very good defenses eventually give up points in today’s NFL. The game is purpose built to favor offense.

Last year’s Wind Bowl vs. Buffalo was BB’s vision of football perfection.

BB saw this trend coming in the early 2010s. Those teams were almost all offense. He's now trying to zag again, but it's not really clear what the direction is, particularly on offense. The defense is lighter, faster, etc. with more hybrid players. He's kept up with the trends there. The offense is...not.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

BB saw this trend coming in the early 2010s. Those teams were almost all offense. He's now trying to zag again, but it's not really clear what the direction is, particularly on offense. The defense is lighter, faster, etc. with more hybrid players. He's kept up with the trends there. The offense is...not.

I think on offense, his zag was to try to go bigger/heavier to take advantage of smaller defenses . It hasn’t exactly worked , but with that kind of offense you don’t really need game breakers, just make it a slog fest

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think on offense, his zag was to try to go bigger/heavier to take advantage of smaller defenses . It hasn’t exactly worked , but with that kind of offense you don’t really need game breakers, just make it a slog fest

I don't think it's exactly that, I think Bill knew he wasn't going to have an elite QB anymore and tried to build an offense to help a young QB... good running game, TEs, a jumpball WR, YAC guys, etc.

Problem is... Harry didn't translate at all as a YAC guy, and never learned routes well enough to create separation... Jonnu and Henry both couldn't block well enough to run the stuff he wanted to... Parker as always couldn't stay healthy. THornton same thing.

 

[tims4wins]

But how hard could it have been to play Wilson, amirite?

View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1707083679162413481?s=46

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Maybe he had to check his ego and throw a bunch of picks and balls into the dirt and what not?

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

But how hard could it have been to play Wilson, amirite?

View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1707083679162413481?s=46

Maybe he was playing Garrett Wilson by yelling at Zappe between reps.