Game 3, Jets, Dark Clouds

[Saints Rest]

Like my classmate, Gordie Lockbaum, I can go both ways. So here is the first (hopefully of many) threads looking at the concerning aspects of a win.

Injuries —- always concerning:
Godchaux, Ekuale, Henry (maybe), Strange (maybe).

Killer instinct. This team didn’t need a come from behind drive, but they had multiple opportunities, both before and after the safety, to put the stake in but couldn’t do it.

JuJu. Is it time to start calling him Jonnu Smith-Schuster?

The return of unforced/dumb penalties. Ugh.

 

[axx]

They did almost lose to Zach Wilson.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

They did almost lose to Zach Wilson.

Characterize "almost". The Patriots held the lead the entire game.

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Characterize "almost". The Patriots held the lead the entire game.

You'd be singing a different tune if that deflected Hail Mary had been a little closer to Randall Cobb.

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

Jonnu Smith-Schuster needs a lot of love.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Like my classmate, Gordie Lockbaum, I can go both ways. So here is the first (hopefully of many) threads looking at the concerning aspects of a win.

Killer instinct. This team didn’t need a come from behind drive, but they had multiple opportunities, both before and after the safety, to put the stake in but couldn’t do it.

First off- Gordie was my first favorite football player- was he a finalist for the Heisman? I know (seem to remember that he was in talks)

I am trying to think that they could have done better end of game. They ran down clock, then took a shot for the first down. But I am possibly missing something.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Characterize "almost". The Patriots held the lead the entire game.

View: https://twitter.com/henrycmckenna/status/1706039300633055538


Somewhere between 5 inches and 2 feet? Can't tell if he would have been down short of the goalline or not.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

'Almost' is doing a lot of work for a would-be "helmet catch" level of grab.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

You'd be singing a different tune if that deflected Hail Mary had been a little closer to Randall Cobb.

The Jets did not almost beat the Patriots. And if my bull had uncles...

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

As close as it was to the actual player, it wasn't very likely that he'd catch that. I'd say the Gronk near-hail mary was more likely.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Dugger hit it right (back of endzone view) and Cobb was going left. It was impressive that Cobb could even get fingertips on it.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

'Almost' is doing a lot of work for a would-be "helmet catch" level of grab.

If Rham catches that ball the Pats might have dominated the score. We can go back to a lot of failed plays from this game and do what-ifs that radically changes the final score.

The reality is that the Patriots led the game throughout and Zach Wilson was seeing ghosts of ghosts. The negativity around these parts is now post-peak.

 

[Caspir]

The fact that JuJu got a multi year deal is sad. Otherwise, a win is a win and I love beating the Jets.

As close as it was to the actual player, it wasn't very likely that he'd catch that. I'd say the Gronk near-hail mary was more likely.

Too soon

 

[Cellar-Door]

As close as it was to the actual player, it wasn't very likely that he'd catch that. I'd say the Gronk near-hail mary was more likely.

yeah, but... lucky bounces happen, and so... yeah it was pretty close to being a loss. They dominated the game and should have won easily, but offense (and a bit of ST) failures to execute meant that the Jets got to be in a position where a bit more luck bounce and they win the game.

I think generally the takeaways from this game are much the same as what we already knew... the defense is good, the offense is not good. Beyond that hard to say much more going forward.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

If Rham catches that ball the Pats might have dominated the score. We can go back to a lot of failed plays from this game and do what-ifs that radically changes the final score.

The reality is that the Patriots led the game throughout and Zach Wilson was seeing ghosts of ghosts. The negativity around these parts is now post-peak.

It stinks and it sucks and it sucks

 

[tims4wins]

And if the refs reverse the PI calls the Pats win by 3 TDs. Whatever.

 

[Saints Rest]

First off- Gordie was my first favorite football player- was he a finalist for the Heisman? I know (seem to remember that he was in talks)

I am trying to think that they could have done better end of game. They ran down clock, then took a shot for the first down. But I am possibly missing something.

Gordie finished 5th as a junior in 86, and 3rd as a senior (in 87). IIRC, he lost to Bo and Vinny T.

 

[Reverend]

They did almost lose to Zach Wilson.

Hey! Take this shit to the Game Ball thread where it (apparently) belongs!!

 

[Reverend]

I didn’t like the play calling in the second half, which struck me as conservative and playing not to lose. I mean, I find that reasonable on an intellectual level, but I’m a big believer in Keep Doing What Got You Success In The First Place.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I didn’t like the play calling in the second half, which struck me as conservative and playing not to lose. I mean, I find that reasonable on an intellectual level, but I’m a big believer in Keep Doing What Got You Success In The First Place.

Most egregious example was punting on 4th and like 2 feet when a first ends the game.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Most egregious example was punting on 4th and like 2 feet when a first ends the game.

Was that the first and 2 feet where they ended up punting, and then getting 2 points off of?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Was that the first and 2 feet where they ended up punting, and then getting 2 points off of?

That was later on. I think the play I am thinking of was when it was 13-3 with about 10 mins to go and we had 4th and 1 at their 45. We punted and Jets went on that 5 minute drive to cut lead to 13-10.

You get 1 more yard and you’re taking another 2-3 mins off at least and potentially more.

Think it was worth doing that rugby scrum play again. Glad it worked out regardless but struck me as a really conservative move.

 

[normstalls]

You mean the one where they slammed Mac to the ground well after the whistle and then another Jets player pushed him to the ground, yet…. No flag. That one??

 

[luckiestman]

You mean the one where they slammed Mac to the ground well after the whistle and then another Jets player pushed him to the ground, yet…. No flag. That one??

Mac instigated that. Sauce also says Mac gave him nut shot.

 

[Reverend]

Mac instigated that. Sauce also says Mac gave him nut shot.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that Mac was asking for that.

 

[streeter88]

I didn’t see any mention (might have missed it?) of the weather and how it could have factored into conservative play calling on the second half. Anyone who was there - how bad was the wind and rain?

 

[Helmet Head]

Mac instigated that. Sauce also says Mac gave him nut shot.

That’s all well and good but what CJ Mosley did well after the whistle is a penalty in the modern day NFL. Most QBs get that call. It’s pretty clear that Mac has a reputation around the league of being dirty and won’t get the benefit of the doubt most of the time.
I also think the refs hate him cause he is constantly complaining to them.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Most egregious example was punting on 4th and like 2 feet when a first ends the game.

I was listening on the radio and Zolak immediately said, "that's going to come back and bite them. You see." And then the Jets marched down the field for their only touchdown. Momentum, etc., matters and you have to wonder if that put a little life in Jets sails and took some out of the D's.

Regardless of the W/L outcomes, it's more fun to be a fan of an aggressive team. You have to have the horses, obviously, but there was an aspect to the Pats of them just robbing teams of their confidence — maybe that was all Brady, but whatever it was, they don't have it right now. That doesn't mean they can't find it over the course of a season. It seems like the D is going to keep them in games. Maybe Zeke and Rham and the OLine can find a way to make this the kind of team that softens Ds up and then robs them of their will in the Fourth? You don't have to squint too hard to see it coming together.

 

[BaseballJones]

The score was close and yes that Hail Mary came kinda close to working. But the Pats utterly dominated that game.

Total Yards: NE 358, NY 171
First Downs: NE 17, NY 12
TOP: NE 31:52, NY 28:08

It was remarkable that the Jets were even close.

 

[tims4wins]

The score was close and yes that Hail Mary came kinda close to working. But the Pats utterly dominated that game.

Total Yards: NE 358, NY 171
First Downs: NE 17, NY 12
TOP: NE 31:52, NY 28:08

It was remarkable that the Jets were even close.

I wrote it yesterday but it was kind of a tale of 2 PIs. Flip the PI calls and the Pats win by 3 scores.

 

[BaseballJones]

I wrote it yesterday but it was kind of a tale of 2 PIs. Flip the PI calls and the Pats win by 3 scores.

Something like that for sure. It's incredible that they didn't call the DPI on the Jets on that long play by NE. Jets CB pushed him first, and then smacked him in the helmet, all while not looking at the ball (his back was completely turned to the ball). Not playing the ball at all, only playing the man. It was textbook DPI, right in front of the ref. No call. Huge play in the game - cost them 3 points minimum, maybe 7.

 

[cshea]

I thought Stevenson had a terrible game. The early drop that may have led to points. Felt like there were a few runs where he missed the hole and ran into the back of an OL and got stopped for no game or a loss. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I haven't loved his performance through 3 games. Never thought I would be happy to see Zeke getting more carries.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I thought Stevenson had a terrible game. The early drop that may have led to points. Felt like there were a few runs where he missed the hole and ran into the back of an OL and got stopped for no game or a loss. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I haven't loved his performance through 3 games. Never thought I would be happy to see Zeke getting more carries.

I'm kind of with you. Stevenson hasn't really looked that good to me so far. I know it's not all his fault due to the state of the OL but he's averaging 2.9 Y/A, which is awful. Zeke is at 4.4 Y/A behind the same OL. Rham's longest run of the season is 12 yards. This offense needs him to be more dynamic. We know he's better than this.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I wrote it yesterday but it was kind of a tale of 2 PIs. Flip the PI calls and the Pats win by 3 scores.

This thing we do where everything goes perfectly after an alleged miss call is weird. The missed PI in the first half was most likely a 3 point impact. The one in the fourth quarter? Who knows. Maybe 0, maybe 4, maybe 7. The Jets probably kick so 4 seems most likely. But if they don’t, maybe they score. Maybe they draw a penalty. But three score game? It’s just make believe.

What we know, taking could have been out of it and looking at what the Patriots actually did with the situation presented, the offense was brutal in the second half and fourth quarter particularly. The good news is that they did enough to win and did not need the offense to do more than it did.

If you are bullish on the team, there was enough to see here. If you are not, there was evidence there too. But these takes where they allegedly dominated but were again thwarted by the nasty refs do not resonate with me. Five punts and three points in the second half is not dominating anything. The Patriots protected the ball and hung on and made the Jets try to beat them by beating their strength. Good enough to get the job done so off we go to see what happens next.

 

[Cellar-Door]

This thing we do where everything goes perfectly after an alleged miss call is weird. The missed PI in the first half was most likely a 3 point impact. The one in the fourth quarter? Who knows. Maybe 0, maybe 4, maybe 7. The Jets probably kick so 4 seems most likely. But if they don’t, maybe they score. Maybe they draw a penalty. But three score game? It’s just make believe.

What we know, taking could have been out of it and looking at what the Patriots actually did with the situation presented, the offense was brutal in the second half and fourth quarter particularly. The good news is that they did enough to win and did not need the offense to do more than it did.

If you are bullish on the team, there was enough to see here. If you are not, there was evidence there too. But these takes where they allegedly dominated but were again thwarted by the nasty refs do not resonate with me. Five punts and three points in the second half is not dominating anything. The Patriots protected the ball and hung on and made the Jets try to beat them by beating their strength. Good enough to get the job done so off we go to see what happens next.

Yeah, I think there is a lot of excuse making about how we could have won every game we lost or won by more, and it's always the refs.

The Patriots were clearly much better than the Jets yesterday... they also came moderately close to a terrible collapse at the end. The domination part is good, the failure to capitalize on opportunities is bad. Single games don't usualy mean much, the question is the patterns over multiple games.

 

[Bowhemian]

I thought Stevenson had a terrible game. The early drop that may have led to points. Felt like there were a few runs where he missed the hole and ran into the back of an OL and got stopped for no game or a loss. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I haven't loved his performance through 3 games. Never thought I would be happy to see Zeke getting more carries.

Watching some of his carries I was having flashbacks of Laurence Maroney.

 

[tims4wins]

This thing we do where everything goes perfectly after an alleged miss call is weird. The missed PI in the first half was most likely a 3 point impact. The one in the fourth quarter? Who knows. Maybe 0, maybe 4, maybe 7. The Jets probably kick so 4 seems most likely. But if they don’t, maybe they score. Maybe they draw a penalty. But three score game? It’s just make believe.

What we know, taking could have been out of it and looking at what the Patriots actually did with the situation presented, the offense was brutal in the second half and fourth quarter particularly. The good news is that they did enough to win and did not need the offense to do more than it did.

If you are bullish on the team, there was enough to see here. If you are not, there was evidence there too. But these takes where they allegedly dominated but were again thwarted by the nasty refs do not resonate with me. Five punts and three points in the second half is not dominating anything. The Patriots protected the ball and hung on and made the Jets try to beat them by beating their strength. Good enough to get the job done so off we go to see what happens next.

I’m not blaming the refs, and I’m also not trying to see things through rose-colored glasses. I think I have a very healthy and realistic view of what this team is and isn’t. I was merely trying to explain how the yardage disparity didn’t lead to a score disparity despite no turnovers from the Pats or Jets ST scores. Those two plays had a massive effect on of the game. Not sure that is really debatable.

 

[cshea]

Watching some of his carries I was having flashbacks of Laurence Maroney.

The Next Gen stats say Stevenson gets -0.93 yards over expected per attempt, 8th worst among qualifiers and he is -42 yards above expected on the season. I know there are OL issues and they played 2 pretty good fronts but that's not good. Elliott is at least coming close to getting what is blocked for him (-0.19 yards over expected per rush).

 

[Jimbodandy]

Rham had stone fingers yesterday too. Not a good game.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Special teams. A duck hook on one FG, a bad miss on another. Punting brought back memories of last year- got baile(y)d out by some good bounces.

Oh- conditions were bad? Weird.

 

[tims4wins]

Special teams. A duck hook on one FG, a bad miss on another. Punting brought back memories of last year- got baile(y)d out by some good bounces.

Oh- conditions were bad? Weird.

I blame Cardona more than Ryland. YMMV.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I blame Cardona more than Ryland. YMMV.

I am too- also the conditions. But that apparently doesn’t factor into other equations.

 

[cshea]

Special teams. A duck hook on one FG, a bad miss on another. Punting brought back memories of last year- got baile(y)d out by some good bounces

I'd put the first miss more on Cardona for a bad snap. He also had a bad snap on the 57-yarder but given the conditions and Ryland's experience I don't think that was a very high percentage kick in the first place. If it wasn't the end of the half they probably never attempt it. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on it. I was impressed by Ryland's leg, looked like those 48-yaders would've been good from 60.

I thought Barringer was fine. 4 of 8 punts inside the Jets 20, don't think there was any touchbacks. Late in the game he had a few punts from deep in our territory maybe you'd like a little more distance on but I didn't think it was anywhere near as bad as last year with Palardy and the dregs.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Cardona gets a D, regardless of the conditions. If you're paying a guy the most in football to do one thing, I sort of think the expectation is that he'll be worth it. Any replacement level long snapper should be ok in good conditions. You pay Cardona for yesterday. I'm glad it didn't cost the game.

 

[Humphrey]

Gordie finished 5th as a junior in 86, and 3rd as a senior (in 87). IIRC, he lost to Bo and Vinny T.

Tim Brown won it in 87, McPherson from Syracuse (the qb, not the coach, LOL) was second. Because they were selling him as a two way player, '87 didn't play out in his favor; he didn't end up playing defense that much, his team was too good to really need him there.

 

[Humphrey]

This thing we do where everything goes perfectly after an alleged miss call is weird. The missed PI in the first half was most likely a 3 point impact. The one in the fourth quarter? Who knows. Maybe 0, maybe 4, maybe 7. The Jets probably kick so 4 seems most likely. But if they don’t, maybe they score. Maybe they draw a penalty. But three score game? It’s just make believe.

What we know, taking could have been out of it and looking at what the Patriots actually did with the situation presented, the offense was brutal in the second half and fourth quarter particularly. The good news is that they did enough to win and did not need the offense to do more than it did.

If you are bullish on the team, there was enough to see here. If you are not, there was evidence there too. But these takes where they allegedly dominated but were again thwarted by the nasty refs do not resonate with me. Five punts and three points in the second half is not dominating anything. The Patriots protected the ball and hung on and made the Jets try to beat them by beating their strength. Good enough to get the job done so off we go to see what happens next.

Couldn't understand why they couldn't run a successful short pass play on the last two third downs (excluding the one under a minute where you run it no matter what). Had enough time to throw deep or medium deep, which was low percentage. The defense can't cover every single short route, can they?

I also would have gone for it 4th and short after the first qb sneak didn't quite make it. At about the Jets' 45, they hadn't moved the ball at all up to that point.

 

[8slim]

Cardona gets a D, regardless of the conditions. If you're paying a guy the most in football to do one thing, I sort of think the expectation is that he'll be worth it. Any replacement level long snapper should be ok in good conditions. You pay Cardona for yesterday. I'm glad it didn't cost the game.

Agree completely. I hate the "you had one job" memes, but he literally has one job. And he has to be able to do it well in all weather and field conditions. He had two crummy FG snaps out of 4, that's not at all acceptable.

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

I feel like I've seen improvement from Mac this year. I would love to see him given some legitimately dynamic playmakers, a #1 WR. Pop is interesting, I'm excited to see more from him. All of that said, I can't bear the 3rd and 4 or 5 or 6, and Mac instantly opts to throw it LONG. This offense, as currently constructed, is clearly designed to make its way steadily down the field. TAKE THE SHORT STUFF to convert the 3rd down to get the team close enough for points.

 

[rodderick]

I feel like they "almost lost" this game in the same way they "almost won" the Miami game last week or the Bengals game last year. The Patriots were the better team throughout, the Jets never really got in the game and then at the end some things bounced their way and they ended up having a shot. This to me was much closer to a 23-3 win than a loss. Now, it would have been great if our offense didn't give the Jets the ball three times at the end needing only a TD to win the game, but I'm down on the offense in general every single game, so don't want to repeat myself.

 

[tims4wins]

I feel like they "almost lost" this game in the same way they "almost won" the Miami game last week or the Bengals game last year. The Patriots were the better team throughout, the Jets never really got in the game and then at the end some things bounced their way and they ended up having a shot. This to me was much closer to a 23-3 win than a loss. Now, it would have been great if our offense didn't give the Jets the ball three times at the end needing only a TD to win the game, but I'm down on the offense in general every single game, so don't want to repeat myself.

This is well put. Nearly every NFL game could end up a one score game if you flip 1-2 plays. The Pats have to own the fact that they probably should have been up more than a score at the end. But if they play that game 10 times with similar stats, I would guess like 1 or 2 end up as Jets wins, a couple end up close Pats wins, and like 5-6 end up Pats by double digits.