1. Pretty much the entire offensive line, except maybe Trent Brown.
2. Interior DL
3. Mac Jones, particularly on the INT.
2. Interior DL
3. Mac Jones, particularly on the INT.
Game 2 Mia, goats
- Thread starter AB in DC
- Start date
Hard to argue with any of those. Other than the INT, I thought Mac was decent in the 2nd half, as he was being pressured every single drop back, and many times had to throw on the run. But the INT was inexcusable (he wasn't under pressure), both on his part and Parker's.
I'll just note that Strange hadn't seen the field since the start of the training camp, so hopefully we'll see some improvement from him going forward.
One silver lining: Gonzalez was good use of a first round draft pick.
The O-line is probably the only real one.
If we have to go 3 deep, probably Douglas and Mac.
The defense was good, so was special teams. They held one of the best offenses in the league in check despite injuries.
The offense had a couple good drives but struggled badly outside of that. Mac was up and down, some of that was pressure, some was just execution.
If we have to go 3 deep, probably Douglas and Mac.
The defense was good, so was special teams. They held one of the best offenses in the league in check despite injuries.
The offense had a couple good drives but struggled badly outside of that. Mac was up and down, some of that was pressure, some was just execution.
1. Tackles
2. Guards
3. Center
I should add, I don’t think they’re necessarily underperforming, Just a real talent gap. Even Dante usually had some blue chippers to build on when he created his masterpieces.
2. Guards
3. Center
I should add, I don’t think they’re necessarily underperforming, Just a real talent gap. Even Dante usually had some blue chippers to build on when he created his masterpieces.
Last edited:
Mac giveth and Mac taketh away. Hard to call him a “goat” as I thought his good plays more or less equaled his bad ones.
Refs were terrible across the board tonight, missing penalties on both teams and then calling things on both teams that weren’t penalties. Final call was BS and I wish the refs had “let them play” but that’s not the NFL style.
Bottom line: it’s very, very hard to be successful in the NFL with a bad OL unless you have a HoF-level QB. The Pats don’t, so their offense is going to be bad until they improve the offensive line. It’s really as simple as that.
Refs were terrible across the board tonight, missing penalties on both teams and then calling things on both teams that weren’t penalties. Final call was BS and I wish the refs had “let them play” but that’s not the NFL style.
Bottom line: it’s very, very hard to be successful in the NFL with a bad OL unless you have a HoF-level QB. The Pats don’t, so their offense is going to be bad until they improve the offensive line. It’s really as simple as that.
It’s so weird. BB has always drafted tackles high and stock piled good players at that position. It’s clearly been a problem since 2019. There were tackles available in free agency.
Scar was always the glue that held the line together for 20 years - now we are just like every other NFL team
Another season, another game with boneheaded plays.
Both games had a handful of game changing boneheaded plays.
So...that.
That and the offensive line.
Both games had a handful of game changing boneheaded plays.
So...that.
That and the offensive line.
They had plenty of good linemen, too, over the years.
Their tackles in particular are not up to snuff, and this is the first game action for the projected starting guards since last year. It showed.
Yep, and the first year he “retired” (before coming back) their OL sucked too.
One would think he could have passed on whatever OL magic he had to someone else, but it really doesn’t seem to be the case.
It's not the coaching in this case. It's clearly the personnel. I'll give Strange as pass this one game, but the rest of the line couldn't do anything against a league average DL.
Strange was the one giving passes tonight. Right through to the QB. Heyoooo!
Seriously he was atrocious and I give him no breaks.
The Scar lines always seemed to play better than the personnel would suggest.
But, agree overall. Onwenu was so bad they had to bench him. That’s unacceptable.
We seem to have a big problem signing or drafting wide receivers the past few years.
1) OL - far too many negative plays for a unit that must be a strength for this team to be any good
2) Coaching - new week, same issues. Nothing ever gets fixed in a post-Brady world
3) Douglas - just a killer fumble and serious early game momentum shift
2) Coaching - new week, same issues. Nothing ever gets fixed in a post-Brady world
3) Douglas - just a killer fumble and serious early game momentum shift
They probably wanted to be paid more than he wanted to give them to come to New England.
I mean, I'm willing to give the guy some time, the line has never been close to healthy since he got here. Not sure how much the coach can upgrade a unit that can't practice.
Mac has to know the situation and not make that throw. It was a killer.
I will say it again. I think some have short memories here. Watch the 2001 season and tell me why that team was successful. Didn’t make mistakes and got some breaks. Not because they were dominant.
I will say it again. I think some have short memories here. Watch the 2001 season and tell me why that team was successful. Didn’t make mistakes and got some breaks. Not because they were dominant.
The 2001 season also started 0-2 so…
Mostly kidding but as down as I am on this team, if you squint right you can see a scenario where they clean up some of the boneheadedness and sloppy play and break off a nice winning streak. The frustrating is that last year’s team also made a lot of boneheaded and sloppy plays and despite a fair amount of turnover on both sides of the ball nothing seems to have changed. At a certain point that starts to call the coaching into question.
There was more than just that. That team could run the ball very well (Antowain Smith was a beast), and the D could hit in a way that literally isn’t allowed today.
They weren’t “dominant” but that was a very good team with good players all over the field. Do you think this 2023 is going to win 11 games and go to the SB like the 2001 team?
Not the way they are playing now no. They’ve lost to two 2-0 teams with a chance to tie/win on last possession and lost the TO battle. If they play cleaner this team has the talent and coaching to compete. If they don’t figure out how to make 3-5 more plays a game then this season won’t improve.
I don’t see it. The NFL produces close games. That’s just the way the league is. 10 games this week we’re decided by 1 score or less. This team likely wont play “cleaner” because they’re not good enough to do that. The OL is awful. The WRs have zero explosiveness. Mac can’t hit on a deep ball.
I thought the defense played well today. I think the offense has the talent to play better. If they don’t they don’t win.
I think that Klemm spent the week working on run blocking with that MASH unit of a line, because they did that pretty well. But the pass blocking was, well, about what I expected at this stage of the season with the people that we have.
I'm going with the OL for a team goat.
Just grateful to watch a professional OC try to make chicken salad out of this. It would look like Georgia against Tufts out there without all of the scheming to get the ball gone fast.
I'm going with the OL for a team goat.
Just grateful to watch a professional OC try to make chicken salad out of this. It would look like Georgia against Tufts out there without all of the scheming to get the ball gone fast.
WRs, OL.
I did a little experiment of who I would switch TEs and WRs with:
Bills, yes.
Fins, yes.
Jets, yes
Browns, yes.
Bengals, yes.
Steelers, yes.
Ravens, yes.
Broncos, eh? Not sure.
Chiefs, yes short term no long term.
Raiders, yes.
Chargers, yes.
Titans, no? Maybe better this year?
Jags, yes.
Colts, yes.
Texans, no? Maybe a tick worse? Maybe better?
Eagles, yes.
Cowboys, yes.
Giants, no.
Washington, yes.
Saints, yes.
Bucs, yes.
Falcons, yes.
Panthers, no.
Viking, yes.
Packers, yes.
Lions, yes.
Bears, yes.
49ers, yes.
Seahawks, yes.
Rams, no? Roughly equal?
Arizona, no?
I think for sure they are better than the Panthers and Giants. But that’s still only 6-7 teams I wouldn’t swap them for.
You could get around the OL if you had a bunch of quick twitch open quickly receivers. Or if you had a good OL this slower group of receivers would work better. The combination is putrid. One penalty derails drives. No one getting consistently open. Their 11 group of Henry, JJSS, Parker, and Bourne might as well be molasses.
I did an experiment looking back at the top 5 and 10 offenses through 2018. There were only 2 out of 30 teams in the top 5 who did it without at least one top shelf pass catcher, the 2018 Pats and the 2020 or 2021 Saints. Both had good OLs and had HOF QBs.
It was a little better for top 10 offenses. Still though it was around 15-25% range.
You can’t win consistently like this. Too much has to go right. They need both a better OL and better pass catchers but I’m going pats catchers first.
I did a little experiment of who I would switch TEs and WRs with:
Bills, yes.
Fins, yes.
Jets, yes
Browns, yes.
Bengals, yes.
Steelers, yes.
Ravens, yes.
Broncos, eh? Not sure.
Chiefs, yes short term no long term.
Raiders, yes.
Chargers, yes.
Titans, no? Maybe better this year?
Jags, yes.
Colts, yes.
Texans, no? Maybe a tick worse? Maybe better?
Eagles, yes.
Cowboys, yes.
Giants, no.
Washington, yes.
Saints, yes.
Bucs, yes.
Falcons, yes.
Panthers, no.
Viking, yes.
Packers, yes.
Lions, yes.
Bears, yes.
49ers, yes.
Seahawks, yes.
Rams, no? Roughly equal?
Arizona, no?
I think for sure they are better than the Panthers and Giants. But that’s still only 6-7 teams I wouldn’t swap them for.
You could get around the OL if you had a bunch of quick twitch open quickly receivers. Or if you had a good OL this slower group of receivers would work better. The combination is putrid. One penalty derails drives. No one getting consistently open. Their 11 group of Henry, JJSS, Parker, and Bourne might as well be molasses.
I did an experiment looking back at the top 5 and 10 offenses through 2018. There were only 2 out of 30 teams in the top 5 who did it without at least one top shelf pass catcher, the 2018 Pats and the 2020 or 2021 Saints. Both had good OLs and had HOF QBs.
It was a little better for top 10 offenses. Still though it was around 15-25% range.
You can’t win consistently like this. Too much has to go right. They need both a better OL and better pass catchers but I’m going pats catchers first.
Everyone on offense. They have a QB that can't elevate the team, an OL that can't block and/or is not healthy, a RB that looks slow, WRs that can't bail out the QB.
Can't score more than 25 points, can't move the ball more than 13 yards, boneheaded interceptions, untimely sacks, and game killing fumbles.
Matt Patricia maybe wasn't the problem.
Can't score more than 25 points, can't move the ball more than 13 yards, boneheaded interceptions, untimely sacks, and game killing fumbles.
Matt Patricia maybe wasn't the problem.
https://x.com/philaperry/status/1703638166731665501?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg
Perry:
Some NextGen Stats on Mac Jones...
Time to throw: 2.38s (3rd fastest in Week 2 so far)
Intended air yards: 9.1 (7th)
Completed air yards: 4.3 (24th)
Aggressiveness % (tight-window rate): 19 (5th)
Completion % over expected: 11.2 (6th)
That sums it up to me. Mac had to get the ball out fast to throw into tight windows because his guys weren’t getting open consistently, and while he attempted to go deep none of his guys made plays. Oh he also had a couple throws I’m sure he would like back.
Second week where Mac is going to be in the top 5 for quickest time to throw.
Perry:
Some NextGen Stats on Mac Jones...
Time to throw: 2.38s (3rd fastest in Week 2 so far)
Intended air yards: 9.1 (7th)
Completed air yards: 4.3 (24th)
Aggressiveness % (tight-window rate): 19 (5th)
Completion % over expected: 11.2 (6th)
That sums it up to me. Mac had to get the ball out fast to throw into tight windows because his guys weren’t getting open consistently, and while he attempted to go deep none of his guys made plays. Oh he also had a couple throws I’m sure he would like back.
Second week where Mac is going to be in the top 5 for quickest time to throw.
Why does this surprise you? These WRs scare no one and they cannot run block or pass protect.
The 2001 team definitely excelled situationally in ways it looks like this team cannot. They may yet get there but it seems miles away. The more accurate analogy is probably the 2000 team, which played lots of one score games but could not close them, lacked offensive explosiveness and generally looked overmatched.
I'm going to be positive. They have had chances to win or tie both of their games at the end so far against what most people consider two of the best teams in the NFL.
The schedule sucks, but if they keep playing like this they should win 10 games. Clean up the turnovers and they could challenge for the division (now you all can tell me I am insane).
The schedule sucks, but if they keep playing like this they should win 10 games. Clean up the turnovers and they could challenge for the division (now you all can tell me I am insane).
The goat is the OL. They can't play offense the way they want to play and have that protection. If you're asking Mac to be a point guard in a team with few weapons, he needs more time, otherwise we'll have this festival of 5 yard completions followed by a punt whenever someone drops a ball or there's a sack/penalty. You can't need perfect execution on offense for 8+ plays every time you touch the ball in order to score. And that's their offense right now. They can't overcome anything that goes wrong. Actually thought Mac was better than last week. Sidelines/deep throws are still a major issue but he for the most part was his best pass protector and made some plays in the second half. Defense did their job as well.
On the last play, a 4th down they had to get, the OL let basically a free rusher directly up the middle. He was barely touched as he ran directly at Mac, that just can’t happen. Mac got a decent ball out quickly and took a solid hit but had zero time to do anything else. Atrocious play by the OL.
1. OL. A regression. Last week, they were able to form a pocket and let Mac set up (even if he didn't have much time) and he was able to work with that. This week, the first drive stalled because Strange helped Andres with one block while letting his own guy come in clean. ANd there were more plays where Mac dropped back and found pass rushers right there with him. It felt more like last season than last week.
2. Douglas. Costly fumble.
3. The replay officials. When an OL receives a lateral, puts his head down, and drives through contact to within 6 inches of a critical 4th down conversion, and the refs call it a first down on the field, you do not fucking reverse them.
Mixed game for Mac. Threw a bad interception and, once again, had a chance to drive for a game typing TD late but failed. Yes, the line sucked, but at some point a QB has to make plays with the game on the line, and Mac is 33 starts into his career having never really done that. He had some good moments in this one, showing that he could improvise and make plays on the move, even if the TD was illegal ecause of blocking downfield.
2. Douglas. Costly fumble.
3. The replay officials. When an OL receives a lateral, puts his head down, and drives through contact to within 6 inches of a critical 4th down conversion, and the refs call it a first down on the field, you do not fucking reverse them.
Mixed game for Mac. Threw a bad interception and, once again, had a chance to drive for a game typing TD late but failed. Yes, the line sucked, but at some point a QB has to make plays with the game on the line, and Mac is 33 starts into his career having never really done that. He had some good moments in this one, showing that he could improvise and make plays on the move, even if the TD was illegal ecause of blocking downfield.
I would just like to see them win a game before projecting 9, 10 wins, whatever. 1-3 looks like the best case scenario start right now. They'll only challenge for the division if Mia and Buff have health issues at key positions and they themselves manage to stay healthy (already not happening at OL and CB).
Douglas got 6 offensive snaps, zero after his bad fumble. I don't think the coaching staff could afford to do that.
It’s the OL. If they keep protecting like this, it’s a 4/5 win team with the schedule they’re playing. You just can’t be having your QB under pressure from multiple directions in under 2.5 seconds. The rest of the offense is league-average but it plays down if they have no time to do anything.
I was very optimistic this team was being underrated heading into this season. They still may be a decent team if they can protect at all. But the offensive line was terrible, and they don’t have the skill position guys to bail out that kind of line.
I was very optimistic this team was being underrated heading into this season. They still may be a decent team if they can protect at all. But the offensive line was terrible, and they don’t have the skill position guys to bail out that kind of line.
I'll pile on to the OL and WRs. I dont know if Thornton will make much difference but they need his speed.
The Douglas fumble was definitely huge but I cant kill him for it. That was a viscous sledgehammer from the blindside. Not many guys hold on to that ball. Credit to a perfect hit on that one.
Honorable mention to the NFL schedulers. Hate playing Miami at home in Sept, it takes away the cold weather advantage.
The Douglas fumble was definitely huge but I cant kill him for it. That was a viscous sledgehammer from the blindside. Not many guys hold on to that ball. Credit to a perfect hit on that one.
Honorable mention to the NFL schedulers. Hate playing Miami at home in Sept, it takes away the cold weather advantage.