Forget Bolf, Let's Talk Frolf: The Disc Golf Thread

Red(s)HawksFan

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That FPO finish was great.
So was the MPO.

And screw spoilers, this was live sports two days ago. Really feel for Ella. Unfortunately, sometimes it is that kind of failure that you need to push you to the next level so you can succeed later. I think she'll get a win eventually, and it will be that much sweeter when she does. I'm rooting for it to be in the PacNW swing when she's closer to home.

On the other hand, Tattar is relentless. Even when she thought she was out of it (her own admission) she kept up the pressure and gave herself the chance on 18. Other players might have just played to protect their position (she was only up one on third with three holes left). Anyone who does beat her will have earned it.
 

Import78

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I still have the final round of the men’s to go. My wife is at a conference so I won’t be able to watch it until Friday.

It was tough to see Ella go OB on the last 3-4 holes. I guess I have to assume it was the pressure since she was doing so well before that. Plenty of pressure with Tattar stalking her like the terminator or the killer in a horror movie just slowly walking after you while you sprint away and somehow reeling you in.

I assume the only way to get past that is to experience it. I always find it funny how hard it is to reset my mental game mid round. Theoretically it shouldn’t be so hard, there are lots of breaks in game, both within and between holes. Those breaks should allow a reset, but I still struggle with it, the front/back split is the only time I can pull it off. Stupid brain.
 

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I still have the final round of the men’s to go. My wife is at a conference so I won’t be able to watch it until Friday.

It was tough to see Ella go OB on the last 3-4 holes. I guess I have to assume it was the pressure since she was doing so well before that. Plenty of pressure with Tattar stalking her like the terminator or the killer in a horror movie just slowly walking after you while you sprint away and somehow reeling you in.

I assume the only way to get past that is to experience it. I always find it funny how hard it is to reset my mental game mid round. Theoretically it shouldn’t be so hard, there are lots of breaks in game, both within and between holes. Those breaks should allow a reset, but I still struggle with it, the front/back split is the only time I can pull it off. Stupid brain.
100% to the bolded. Knowing how to play (and win) on a lead card or with a lead coming down the stretch is definitely a skill. It's just not the type of skill you can work on by yourself on a practice field or during a practice round. It can only be experienced. The trouble in disc golf is a lot of people rush their way to the pro level without taking advantage of the amateur levels to practice the mental stuff like dealing with pressure and closing the door with a tournament lead.

Some of that is just the culture of the sport. For many, many years the mentality in the game was to push players up as quickly as possible. Basically the first time you show any sign of success as a Novice, you were pushed to Intermediate, and on up until suddenly you're playing MPO with effectively a 903 rating (this was how it worked before ratings and a lot of veterans still can't break the mindset). I've seen a lot of players quit the game, at least competitively, because they found themselves pressured into MPO where they were paying higher entry fees and frequently finishing at the back of the pack. Now at least there's more respect for a player who wins at the amateur level and stays there until they feel and/or their rating says they're ready to be a pro. Leads to many more polished all around players joining the pro ranks ready to compete from the jump.

FPO is a bit different in that it's more a numbers thing than a peer pressure thing with women moving up quickly. Often women end up playing FPO simply because there are few to no amateur women to play with/against. And now with the boom of the sport, and the tour suddenly being a viable career, it seems like more women are going on tour without much of an amateur (or even much local pro) experience. Ella is definitely one of them. Within a year of starting to play the game, she was playing pro tour events. She played one tournament in an amateur division before jumping to FPO. She notched one FPO win in nine attempts before playing her first tour event in Vegas. She has 8 FPO wins so far, but only one of them was against what I'd call significant competition (2022 SeaTak Takeoff). Of the rest, the best player she beat was Zoe AnDyke (a good player but not an elite one). That's not a lot of preparation to know how to handle closing the deal not only with the best player in the world chasing you down but in front of a big crowd and a bunch of cameras and all that. Fortunately she's talented enough that she should get more chances to gain that experience and eventually break through.
 

SumnerH

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FPO is a bit different in that it's more a numbers thing than a peer pressure thing with women moving up quickly. Often women end up playing FPO simply because there are few to no amateur women to play with/against. And now with the boom of the sport, and the tour suddenly being a viable career, it seems like more women are going on tour without much of an amateur (or even much local pro) experience. Ella is definitely one of them. Within a year of starting to play the game, she was playing pro tour events. She played one tournament in an amateur division before jumping to FPO. She notched one FPO win in nine attempts before playing her first tour event in Vegas. She has 8 FPO wins so far, but only one of them was against what I'd call significant competition (2022 SeaTak Takeoff). Of the rest, the best player she beat was Zoe AnDyke (a good player but not an elite one). That's not a lot of preparation to know how to handle closing the deal not only with the best player in the world chasing you down but in front of a big crowd and a bunch of cameras and all that. Fortunately she's talented enough that she should get more chances to gain that experience and eventually break through.
She's also probably helped a little by having played Ultimate at a high level. It's not exactly equivalent, but she's been mentally successful in front of crowds under the lights and cameras at the college championships and at Worlds.
 

Import78

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She's also probably helped a little by having played Ultimate at a high level. It's not exactly equivalent, but she's been mentally successful in front of crowds under the lights and cameras at the college championships and at Worlds.
I think that’s true to some degree, but I think there is an important difference. With ultimate I was only really aware of crowds in between points, there wasn’t really enough time to think about them during points. Disc golf is a lot more like spring board diving in my experience (so relatable, I know). There are long pauses between your action so there’s a lot of time to get in your own head, no subbing out to catch your breath etc. you’re also the only thing happening when it’s your turn.

I found the Ultimate mind game easier to manage by a fair margin.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think that’s true to some degree, but I think there is an important difference. With ultimate I was only really aware of crowds in between points, there wasn’t really enough time to think about them during points. Disc golf is a lot more like spring board diving in my experience (so relatable, I know). There are long pauses between your action so there’s a lot of time to get in your own head, no subbing out to catch your breath etc. you’re also the only thing happening when it’s your turn.

I found the Ultimate mind game easier to manage by a fair margin.
Agreed. The mental side of things is a lot different in an individual sport where you have a good deal of time to think and re-think and re-re-think every decision, and replay and regret decisions after the fact. There's no one-size-fits-all solution to dealing with it either.

The experience of playing front of crowds and cameras in Ultimate can help, but I think it's a different thing when the camera is literally right on top of you and you know it's watching your every move. Easy enough to "hide" on an Ultimate field where the cameras are 50-100+ feet away and pointed almost exclusively at the disc and whoever has it at the moment. There's no hiding when a DGN camera operator is told to stay on you even when other people are throwing. I'm sure it's nerve-wracking if it's the third hole of the first round, let alone the last couple holes of the final round. But as evidenced by the likes of Tattar and Pierce and Allen, it's something that you can get used to and work through, same as anything else. It just takes experience.
 

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I'll unspoiler in a couple of days but I figure at least until post-production is out....

Paige Pierce having fun this weekend: rushing to finish her first round so she could head over to Willie Nelson's Luck Reunion (with Sierra Farrell!!), then calmly finishing out the round with little drama even with a bogie on 18. Kristin's unfortunate struggles in the last round helped make it low drama: hopefully some KT/PP duels with them both on their games are coming soon. Catrina came charging back after +7 in the first round, but it was just too much ground to make up.

But for at least one week FPO's results looked like a throwback to 2019: Paige Pierce, Catrina Allen, Jessica Weese, and Missy Gannon at the top of the standings.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'll unspoiler in a couple of days but I figure at least until post-production is out....

Paige Pierce having fun this weekend: rushing to finish her first round so she could head over to Willie Nelson's Luck Reunion (with Sierra Farrell!!), then calmly finishing out the round with little drama even with a bogie on 18. Kristin's unfortunate struggles in the last round helped make it low drama: hopefully some KT/PP duels with them both on their games are coming soon. Catrina came charging back after +7 in the first round, but it was just too much ground to make up.

But for at least one week FPO's results looked like a throwback to 2019: Paige Pierce, Catrina Allen, Jessica Weese, and Missy Gannon at the top of the standings.
Paige not only rushed out after round 1 to go to Willie Nelson, but she spent her post-round 2 afternoon wedding dress shopping (I believe accompanied by Missy Gannon). The funny part of that is that back home in Florida, Paige's fiancée Alyssa was also wedding dress shopping. They apparently were unaware that their individual plans coincided until Paige's plans were mentioned on the broadcast. Paige is living her best life and winning tournaments and it's nice to see.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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There has been a long running debate in the sport about live vs post-production in terms of the best way to watch tournaments. Today is a huuuuge checkmark on the live side of the ledger. Second weekend in a row with the winner coming from outside the lead card. And very nearly had the winner come from a card that wasn't even covered by a post-production crew.

There will be a lot of talk about the course. I think it was a little raw but ultimately did its job well. The tour needs more courses like it that keeps a bigger chunk of the field in contention right to the end.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Spoilering for the benefit of those who don't/can't watch until the post-production releases, or who chose to watch that sorta important traditional golf tournament instead.
Three Elite Series events in a row that the winner comes off the chase card. To put it in perspective, it's the second time Simon has done it and that ties for the all-time record. It just hasn't happened that often. Finishing the round with 8 straight birdies, and none of them requiring an iffy putt, is one hell of a way to take it down.

FPO wasn't quite as exciting as far as the winner, but I an really impressed at how deep the field is starting to get with a whole bunch of people finishing near the top who we don't often see there. Way more fun to watch tournaments when it isn't always the same 4-5 players at the top week after week.
 

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Spoilering for the benefit of those who don't/can't watch until the post-production releases, or who chose to watch that sorta important traditional golf tournament instead.
Three Elite Series events in a row that the winner comes off the chase card. To put it in perspective, it's the second time Simon has done it and that ties for the all-time record. It just hasn't happened that often. Finishing the round with 8 straight birdies, and none of them requiring an iffy putt, is one hell of a way to take it down.

FPO wasn't quite as exciting as far as the winner, but I an really impressed at how deep the field is starting to get with a whole bunch of people finishing near the top who we don't often see there. Way more fun to watch tournaments when it isn't always the same 4-5 players at the top week after week.

What's going on in MPO these days is quite exciting. It used to feel like McBeth and Wysocki were a clear cut above the rest of the field, but now there are about 10 different players who you might expect to win on any given weekend. Plus, there are SO MANY good younger players, like Gannon Buhr, and Kyle Klein.

The "explosion" for disc golf during the pandemic appears to keep reverberating. The local scenes where I live in B.C. have totally mushroomed during the last 3 years, and now we have PDGA certified events almost every weekend all summer throughout the Interior of BC. 3 years ago, I think there were maybe a dozen or less events a year. The way things are going, between hugely increased public participation, a boost in funding and production to the Pro level broadcasts, and the emerging increase in competition, I am now officially (unbelievably??) wondering if disc golf might become a fairly major sport, not just for recreational players, but also as a pro sport. I know ESPN has shown coverage from 1-2 tourneys in the past, but all this growth makes me feel like we might start seeing it on broadcast TV soon.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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What's going on in MPO these days is quite exciting. It used to feel like McBeth and Wysocki were a clear cut above the rest of the field, but now there are about 10 different players who you might expect to win on any given weekend. Plus, there are SO MANY good younger players, like Gannon Buhr, and Kyle Klein.

The "explosion" for disc golf during the pandemic appears to keep reverberating. The local scenes where I live in B.C. have totally mushroomed during the last 3 years, and now we have PDGA certified events almost every weekend all summer throughout the Interior of BC. 3 years ago, I think there were maybe a dozen or less events a year. The way things are going, between hugely increased public participation, a boost in funding and production to the Pro level broadcasts, and the emerging increase in competition, I am now officially (unbelievably??) wondering if disc golf might become a fairly major sport, not just for recreational players, but also as a pro sport. I know ESPN has shown coverage from 1-2 tourneys in the past, but all this growth makes me feel like we might start seeing it on broadcast TV soon.
I won't believe that regular broadcast TV coverage is on the horizon until we start seeing regular weekly highlights/recaps on Sportscenter or results reported on the scrolling tickers (ESPN, FS1/2, CBS Sports, any of them). Heck, I'd even settle for a tab on the front page of ESPN.com. Maybe I'm jaded when it comes to that because coverage on TV has been "right around the corner" for disc golf since before I started playing 25 years ago. There have always been folks who believed we were right on the cusp of mainstream TV coverage since the days when the only video coverage of any event was a 90 minute VHS of the final 9 holes of the World Championship, released 4-6 months after the tournament ended.

That said, I think the coverage is in a great place as is. Streaming is the future and that's where they already are, and DGN has only continued to improve its product. The only thing I wish for now was a seamless transition from each segment of coverage. Now that they've started doing a pre and post game show, I'd love to not have to flip manually from the pre-game stream to the round stream to the post-game stream. Minor thing though.
 

McDrew

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I'm happy with the number of different people on coverage cards this season. Different styles are awesome to see.

Jumped 732->754 last update. 3 of my last 4 rounds have been 790+. Good progress in that direction so far this year.
 

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What's going on in MPO these days is quite exciting. It used to feel like McBeth and Wysocki were a clear cut above the rest of the field, but now there are about 10 different players who you might expect to win on any given weekend. Plus, there are SO MANY good younger players, like Gannon Buhr, and Kyle Klein.
Cutting the opposite way, a TON of the MPO players seem like total jerks, or at best clueless like Ricky. It's great to have Simon and Thomas Gilbert out there, but FPO just generally seems so much easier to root for (obvious Cat issues aside).
 

Import78

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Cutting the opposite way, a TON of the MPO players seem like total jerks, or at best clueless like Ricky. It's great to have Simon and Thomas Gilbert out there, but FPO just generally seems so much easier to root for (obvious Cat issues aside).
Agreed, when I went to a tournament one of the things I noticed was that until the final round the men were nice enough. The fpo were much friendlier and generally looked happier. One caveat to that is that we were following a card with Ohn and Missy.
Only Ricky from the lead card went to the autograph table after the final round. You probably don’t need me to tell you he won, the other three guys left in a seeming huff. All four of the fpo women were there and all 4 were very chatty. I think the only other MPO player who went to the table was McBeth from the chase card and he was quite friendly as well.
 

Sausage in Section 17

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Cutting the opposite way, a TON of the MPO players seem like total jerks, or at best clueless like Ricky. It's great to have Simon and Thomas Gilbert out there, but FPO just generally seems so much easier to root for (obvious Cat issues aside).
I was commenting on the competitive aspects, which in FPO are a bit boring lately, with seemingly everyone playing for 2nd when Tattar is on her game.

I know we talked about this last year, but I guess I'm not picking up on the acrimony in MPO. I haven't heard any comments or seen any "jerkish" behavior, but I usually just watch post-production highlights.

My personal feeling is that whatever is going on in MPO would have to be pretty bad to equal what Cat Allen and Sarah Hokom did to Natalie Ryan. If neither of them never win another title, I won't cry.
 

McDrew

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They set up the "Gold" layout at Milo for the Beaver State Fling that starts the 18th. Went and played it last night. It is going to look so good on camera and a few of the franken-holes (one hole's tee-box to the next hole's basket) are absolutely going to be score separators.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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They set up the "Gold" layout at Milo for the Beaver State Fling that starts the 18th. Went and played it last night. It is going to look so good on camera and a few of the franken-holes (one hole's tee-box to the next hole's basket) are absolutely going to be score separators.
It indeed looked good on camera. Even more encouraging for the future of the BSF is the live broadcasts were fairly strong. Two of the knocks on the event and why it has been in danger of dropping off the tour was the lack of good cell signal for live broadcasting and the two course set-up led to the tournament format being two rounds on Friday (one on each) then a round a day on Saturday and Sunday. The tour doesn't like shotgun start rounds. It bodes well that the gold course set-up worked so well and the broadcasts were generally flaw-free (signal-wise).

Can't not share the shot of the weekend either...final round, first hole, FPO lead card:

View: https://twitter.com/DiscGolfProTour/status/1660384138736664577
 

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I always thought her form was kinda goofy looking, but it works for her. And that's a heck of an ace.
It certainly is unorthodox. Unorthodoxy in form was a lot more common when she came up into the sport (mid/late 90s) because there was no such thing as Youtube where one could see "proper" form, let alone instructional videos and specific drills to hone and streamline technique. Everyone was more or less on their own to figure things out and the only way to know if it was "right" was if it worked.

These days, it's all clones of different players. There are McBeth clones and Simon clones and Eagle clones. It's like back in the day when all the Little Leaguers were adjusting their batting gloves and tapping their toes in the batters box like Nomar.
 

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For the sake of anyone that prefers the post-production, I'll spoiler...

What a story with the Dynamic Discs Open winner Parker Welck. Joined the tour this year, hasn't had a top 15 finish yet (only four career wins at any level), but just walked in a win over the best player on tour so far this year. Lowest rated player ever to win an elite series event. Fun to watch.

FPO was a fun watch too. Was pulling for Holyn to get her first win, but the island hole #16 did her in in regulation and the playoff. Hailey King was a deserving winner.
 

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Meanwhile McBeth calmly throws a -14 round at Konopiště. But

Niklas Anttila put up back-to-back -12 rounds to win[/quote]
 
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McDrew

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Pier: Avoid after 4PM on weekdays and on weekends after 10AM. That's when its packed. Otherwise, do go play it. Well laid out, good signage/directions, easy to get to. The trees are huge, but there are also lines you can feasibly throw. I play it once or twice a week.
Hornings: 3 courses in 1 location. Hard to play solo because of the blind shots and ground foliage. Lots of great holes throwing up/down hills and around a bunch of trees. The cell coverage on the courses is garbage. I meet a friend and play Canyon (middle) and Highlands (short) at 4PM after work one day a week. Very wooded course. Not busy on weekdays. Gets packed on weekends. about a 30 minute drive west.
Milo McIver: BSF course. Milo is gorgeous. It is also very tough. Play the full 27 (there are maps on Udisc that interrupt the east course for a west course loop). Good mix of open/wooded holes. A little bit of a drive, but you can also play Timber park at the same trip for another 21. 40 minute drive south.

Dabney, Champoeg, Timber, LL Stub Stuart, and Buxton Woods are all good visits too, but these 3 are the one's I feel are the best representations of the area.
 

Sausage in Section 17

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How did you like Horning’s Hideout? I will be visiting the area this fall and was interested to try it.
Horning's is a must play in my book. I used to do a camping/disc golf trip there every year with my buddies. I agree with McDrew that the Highlands (ace runs on every hole) and Canyon courses are most fun. The other course is a bear of a Pro course, and unless you can throw 400ft., and have 4 hours, you could skip it.

Milo McIver: BSF course. Milo is gorgeous. It is also very tough. Play the full 27 (there are maps on Udisc that interrupt the east course for a west course loop). Good mix of open/wooded holes. A little bit of a drive, but you can also play Timber park at the same trip for another 21. 40 minute drive south.
Agree with all....except Timber Park is less than 15 minutes away in Estacada, and honestly, unless you're a Pro, is more fun than Milo, YMMV.

edit- And I'd happily wait in line for a while to get to play at Pier Park, nearly any time. That's got to be top 5 in terms of most beautiful courses.
 

Import78

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Just signed up for a three disc tournament in Fitchburg in September. I haven’t seen one of these before, but it seems like low key fun. You get three discs from a manufacturer and they are the only discs you can use for the tournament. Hopefully it’s entertaining.

Also, later this week I’m playing at least one round in Davos, Switzerland. Looks like a fairly basic course, but the views will be awesome.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Just signed up for a three disc tournament in Fitchburg in September. I haven’t seen one of these before, but it seems like low key fun. You get three discs from a manufacturer and they are the only discs you can use for the tournament. Hopefully it’s entertaining.

Also, later this week I’m playing at least one round in Davos, Switzerland. Looks like a fairly basic course, but the views will be awesome.
Three disc challenge rounds are fun. I run one myself every year (Trilogy Challenge). Low key is the truth. Since everyone is using the same equipment, and presumably most of them haven't thrown those particular molds before, no one should really be coming in expecting to shoot their personal bests so the pressure is off.

My unsolicited advice would be to not feel obligated to use all three discs in the round. In my experience, one of the three is always an ill fit for any given player. Sometimes it's the driver, sometimes it's the mid, sometimes it's the putter. The mistake I usually see players make is that they insist on throwing the disc they think is appropriate for the distance (driver for long shots, mids for medium, putter for short, etc) even if the disc doesn't suit their style. If the mid works for you and you're struggling with the driver, stick with the mid even on the longer shots/holes. Especially at a course like Coggshall where the rough can be rough but the fairways are fair. Throw what will keep you on the fairways and you'll have more fun. :)

Oh, and enjoy Davos. Regardless of the course, it's cool just to be able to say you've thrown discs there.
 

Import78

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Three disc challenge rounds are fun. I run one myself every year (Trilogy Challenge). Low key is the truth. Since everyone is using the same equipment, and presumably most of them haven't thrown those particular molds before, no one should really be coming in expecting to shoot their personal bests so the pressure is off.

My unsolicited advice would be to not feel obligated to use all three discs in the round. In my experience, one of the three is always an ill fit for any given player. Sometimes it's the driver, sometimes it's the mid, sometimes it's the putter. The mistake I usually see players make is that they insist on throwing the disc they think is appropriate for the distance (driver for long shots, mids for medium, putter for short, etc) even if the disc doesn't suit their style. If the mid works for you and you're struggling with the driver, stick with the mid even on the longer shots/holes. Especially at a course like Coggshall where the rough can be rough but the fairways are fair. Throw what will keep you on the fairways and you'll have more fun. :)

Oh, and enjoy Davos. Regardless of the course, it's cool just to be able to say you've thrown discs there.
Helpful reminders here. I was playing a course for the fifth time or so and I hadn’t been scoring where I thought I should be so I decided to play a (mostly) putter round. I think I threw 3 driver shots, only on quite long but wide open holes. Every other shot I threw was a putter. Knocked 3 strokes off my best score. I’m hoping to get to the tournament a little early so I can at least throw the discs once or twice. But it will depend on when my buddies want to get on the road.
 

McDrew

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edit- And I'd happily wait in line for a while to get to play at Pier Park, nearly any time. That's got to be top 5 in terms of most beautiful courses.
Its the biggest reason I moved to St. Johns. I get to take a long lunch and play with no wait 3 times a week. I shot +5 in the shorts today (beating my prior PB of +9)
 

Import78

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Glow season starts next weekend. Anyone have recommendations on a UV disc charger?
I just use a blacklight flashlight. One of my regular playing buddies made some kind of LED string light for his bag so discs charge up while in the bag. It works ok, but I don't think it gets the disc evenly.
 

Sausage in Section 17

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I just use a blacklight flashlight. One of my regular playing buddies made some kind of LED string light for his bag so discs charge up while in the bag. It works ok, but I don't think it gets the disc evenly.
Combining a black light flashlight with glow in the dark tape creates endless cool design possibilities.

73338
 

McDrew

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Outshot my rating by 42 and 53 points in my first 2 tournament rounds of the year. I took everything 10 speed and higher out of my bag for the winter and focused on throwing slower discs better. It worked.
 

Import78

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Played my first tournament of the year on 3/2. It was a one day Berg only tournament. Managed to win the MA40 division with an -3 over 2 rounds. It was a lot of fun, and I find myself reaching for the Berg more than before.

I’ve also spent some time working on my form with slow mo video which is very helpful, highly recommend it if you’re into form work and have the space. I set up a net in my basement and I try to do 10 minutes 3-4 times a week to try and focus on certain things. Some of it disappears when I’m on the box, but I can feel some of it sticking as well.
 

McDrew

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My realtor is the treasurer of the disc golf club here in Portland, so he understood the assignment of "I want to live near a course". I'm a mile from Pier Park. I'm gonna get to play it 150+ times a year.