Following Former Red Sox: 2015

Toe Nash

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Jul 28, 2005
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Yeah, over 560 MLB AB he now has a .336 BABIP. He doesn't hit the ball incredibly hard but he's fast -- Fangraphs credits him with 27 infield hits in his career and a 10.6 IFH%, which is I assume infield hits / groundballs. That would be in the top 20 most years.
 
I think so long as he keeps decent control of the strike zone and doesn't swing and miss too much, he can be fine at the plate even with zero power, at least until his footspeed dissipates.
 
Jul 10, 2002
4,279
Behind
And yet, Iglesias has accumulated 3.5 fWAR IN 186 Games and 616 PA's.  Xander has accumulated 1.1 fWAR in 210 Games and 823 PA's.
 
Iglesias has been pretty good.  I miss that glove.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Jul 13, 2005
11,382
Yoknapatawpha County
At least Hilly was in on the ground floor with Iggy, stuck it out when it looked like long odds for him to succeed. Rudy offers no actual perspective on anything and then circles back and takes shots depending on the outcome. Does he think Iglesias is better? Does he think Bogaerts will improve and overtake him? Who knows? Does it matter? More questions? Why not?
 
Good for Iggy. I was wrong, I figured he'd have cratered offensively by now.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
11,779
Rudy Pemberton said:
I was merely amused that in this thread, someone mocks Iglesias for a poor stretch with limited power that results in a just below 700 OPS, while elsewhere in this universe, a very similar performance by Bogaerts is seen as a sign that he's ready to bust out. That Iglesias has a higher career SLG than Xander is probably just an odd footnote at this point in time, that's all.
 
That Iglesias has a higher career slugging is a function of his ungodly amount of infield hits though; it doesn't mean he's got more power. 
 
If you are comparing power, then you compare ISO.
 
Though I agree with JtB, I'm floored that Iglesias continues to hit for a such a high average with still limited plate discipline and almost no power.  I was one of many on SoSH who thought he'd plateaued as a hitter.   Thankfully, message board posters aren't paid to get these things right.  However, GMs are paid to get them right, and as Francellis Montas continues to develop, while Heath Hembree shows no signs of being even as good a prospect as Alex Wilson who was ultimately traded due to the overcrowding of AAAA righthanded relief pitchers and Edwin Escobar heads to a date with TJS, this trade is quickly turning into a Schilling and Anderson for Boddicker level disaster.    Ben Cherington's seat continues to heat up.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
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Aug 22, 2009
19,310

LogansDad

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Nov 15, 2006
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Detts

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Jul 20, 2005
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soxhop411 said:
 
Some of the questions are pretty funny:
 
 
Is it kosher?

A:
 

No. It is used for porking.
Blowfish answered on October 23, 2013 


See all 2 answers








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Is it family friendly?

A:
 

your mom and I had a wonderful time.
PEn Name answered on January 10, 2014 

 







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Can I bathe in this?

A:
 

My friend, you can bathe in anything.
Darkwing Duck answered on November 12, 2013 


See all 10 answers





 


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Can I fill my hot tub with this?

A:
 

Only if your hot tub is 55 gallons or less.
 





 
edit:  Spoilered in  case people don't want to read it.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
19,963
Detts said:
 
 
Some of the questions are pretty funny:
 




Is it kosher?

A:
 

No. It is used for porking.
Blowfish answered on October 23, 2013 


See all 2 answers








  •  
  • 408 
    votes
  •  



Is it family friendly?

A:
 

your mom and I had a wonderful time.
PEn Name answered on January 10, 2014 

 







  •  
  • 207 
    votes
  •  



Can I bathe in this?

A:
 

My friend, you can bathe in anything.
Darkwing Duck answered on November 12, 2013 


See all 10 answers





 


  •  

  • votes
  •  



Can I fill my hot tub with this?

A:
 

Only if your hot tub is 55 gallons or less.





 
 
 
Uhm, did you mean to post that in this thread, Detts?
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
17,366
Newton
Is this where we get to say that Andrew Miller—the reliever we should have given Mark Texeira money to!!—is going on the DL with an ominous-sounding forearm sprain?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13053715/andrew-miller-new-york-yankees-closer-headed-dl-strained-muscle-forearm

Edit: See it was posted in the Yankees subforum but think it should belong here as well given the sturm und drang around him signing with the Yanks and being so lights out over the first two months of the season.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
49,460
San Andreas Fault
Good outing by Webster, no hitter into the sixth, gives up 2 runs, his BP holds and he gets a W. Rubby going tomorrow. No way he can finish off a sweep for AZ in SF, right? The way this season has gone for the Sox, why not?
 

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

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Al Zarilla said:
Good outing by Webster, no hitter into the sixth, gives up 2 runs, his BP holds and he gets a W. Rubby going tomorrow. No way he can finish off a sweep for AZ in SF, right? The way this season has gone for the Sox, why not?
Neither of them is pitching in any way that would help the Sox.  So who the hell cares if AZ sweeps SF?
 

BestGameEvah

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Oct 21, 2012
1,089
Josh Donaldson apparently credited Jonny Gomes with showing him the right way to approach the game.
Gibbons called Donaldson a game changer... on the field and in the clubhouse.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
11,779
richgedman'sghost said:
Funny Plympton 91 seems pretty quiet all of s sudden. Cat get your tongue?
 
Even if Miller misses a season from this point on recovering from TJS, at "waste" of $10 million, they'd still have been better off using that $10 million to enjoy 2 months of flawless relief pitching and then rehab Miller rather than signing Masterson.
 
I simply have a different view of risks and rewards than others here.  All baseball players are a risk of injury or underperformance, they don't become more or less so after signing long-term contracts.  And if paying Allen Craig $27 million over three seasons to play in Pawtucket isn't going to cripple the team, then neither would missing out on one year of a relief pitcher at roughly the same salary.
 
Though one of the reason I was so pro-Miller was because he had no history of arm injuries.  And, because of his ineffectiveness as a starter and fluke foot injury in 2013, he had never been abused, which should have, by all the SABR reasoning, made him a lower risk than many others to have an arm injury.  So there's that.
 
But hey, it's so awesome that the Red Sox bullpen has been flawless in 2015, and they obviously didn't need Miller anyway.  They should obviously keep following the "Shit against the Wall" strategy that is working out so well for them.  AMIRITE!
 

bosox79

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Dec 22, 2002
10,122
Have you ever bothered looking at other teams bullpens and where the pitchers come from plympton? I'm guessing no.

Paying big bucks to middle relievers is always stupid. Kinda like signing fat guys on the decline to $100mil contracts.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
11,779
bosox79 said:
Have you ever bothered looking at other teams bullpens and where the pitchers come from plympton? I'm guessing no.

Paying big bucks to middle relievers is always stupid. Kinda like signing fat guys on the decline to $100mil contracts.
 
On the successful teams, I see a lot of converted starters with upper 90s fastballs--Betances, Miller, Britton, Hunter, Davis.  I don't see many of those in the Red Sox bullpen.  In the Sox bullpen, I see a bunch of soft-tossers (Layne, Breslow), low-to-mid-90s fastballs (Ogando, Tazawa, Barnes) and tricksters (Uehara and Wright), hence the term "shit up against a wall."
 
I'd also note that despite the characterization by the two trolls up above, Miller himself argued against going on the DL and the move was termed precautionary.   It sounds like putting MIller on the DL was a prudent move by a first-place team that knows they've got a chance to win in the playoffs this year with MIller and Betances shortening games to 6 innings the way the Royals did last season.   That's what winning organizations can afford to do in early June--plan for October instead of planning for the next fire sale like the Red Sox.
 

bosox79

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Dec 22, 2002
10,122
Tazawa and Barnes are failed starters. Also go look at who the top 10 relievers were in 2012 and 13 and how many of them are still good. All teams bullpens are made of failed starters and journeymen. Even KC. It's a complete crapshoot.
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
11,779
bosox79 said:
Tazawa and Barnes are failed starters. Also go look at who the top 10 relievers were in 2012 and 13 and how many of them are still good. All teams bullpens are made of failed starters and journeymen. Even KC. It's a complete crapshoot.
 
For lazy or untrained analysts, perhaps it does look that way.   I bet when done correctly, it's no more of a crapshoot than any other aspect of a game that has a fairly large random component.   The volatility of bullpen performance is likely related to the small sample size and the overwork, the former can be overcome with robust scouting and analysis, the latter with intelligent management of resources.  I bet if you looked at 60 IP samples for starting pitchers they'd show just as much variation as relief pitchers--exhibit A--look at Drew Hutchison or Taijan Walker for April vs. May.   It may look like a crapshoot ex post, but if you're giving me only 60 innings to look at, then ex ante I still want the guy with the better stuff and worse numbers on the mound over the guy with mediocre stuff and good numbers.   Just because there's large variance doesn't mean you don't want to start with the highest expected value.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Jun 26, 2006
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Plympton91 said:
 
For lazy or untrained analysts, perhaps it does look that way.   I bet when done correctly, it's no more of a crapshoot than any other aspect of a game that has a fairly large random component.   The volatility of bullpen performance is likely related to the small sample size and the overwork, the former can be overcome with robust scouting and analysis, the latter with intelligent management of resources.  I bet if you looked at 60 IP samples for starting pitchers they'd show just as much variation as relief pitchers--exhibit A--look at Drew Hutchison or Taijan Walker for April vs. May.   It may look like a crapshoot ex post, but if you're giving me only 60 innings to look at, then ex ante I still want the guy with the better stuff and worse numbers on the mound over the guy with mediocre stuff and good numbers.   Just because there's large variance doesn't mean you don't want to start with the highest expected value.
60 inning samples for starters will have less observed variance because they're not independent. Better stuff / worse numbers sounds like you're advocating for Kelly as closer? If bullpen pitching really is predictable with the right mix of scouting and analytics, there should be teams who have had good bullpens over multiple "generations" of bullpen arms. Who are those teams?
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
11,779
kieckeredinthehead said:
60 inning samples for starters will have less observed variance because they're not independent.
 
The same relief pitcher over multiple seasons is not independent either.  And there are ways to correct for the dependence anyway.
 
 
kieckeredinthehead said:
 
Better stuff / worse numbers sounds like you're advocating for Kelly as closer?
 
Does Kelly have better stuff than Uehara?  I'm using stuff generically, to include command and secondary pitches, not just radar gun readings.
 
kieckeredinthehead said:
 
If bullpen pitching really is predictable with the right mix of scouting and analytics, there should be teams who have had good bullpens over multiple "generations" of bullpen arms. Who are those teams?
 
Your assertion is not at all accurate (you've left out that such analytics may not have been developed yet, and that teams also would have to adopt a sufficiently forward-looking program of protecting the health of their relievers instead of treating them all like Joe Torre treated Scott Proctor or Terry Francona treated Keith Foulke). Your test also is inexact.  What you'd want to test is whether, adjusting for the admittedly higher variance of relief pitcher performance, some organizations have on average better bullpen performance--not whether the team has a better bullpen every year.  That test would also have to adjust for organizational turnover in scouting and analytics staff. 
 
The only data I can find readily available is total bullpen ERA, which is inadequate, since it can be skewed by the bottom of the bullpen, when what we're interested in is identifying the top of the bullpen.  Though, if pressed, Tampa Bay seems to be doing quite well over the past decade at building the top half of their bullpens; and they're one of the most statistically savvy organizations out there. 
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Plympton91 said:
 
Your assertion is not at all accurate (you've left out that such analytics may not have been developed yet, and that teams also would have to adopt a sufficiently forward-looking program of protecting the health of their relievers instead of treating them all like Joe Torre treated Scott Proctor or Terry Francona treated Keith Foulke). Your test also is inexact.  What you'd want to test is whether, adjusting for the admittedly higher variance of relief pitcher performance, some organizations have on average better bullpen performance--not whether the team has a better bullpen every year.  That test would also have to adjust for organizational turnover in scouting and analytics staff. 
 
The only data I can find readily available is total bullpen ERA, which is inadequate, since it can be skewed by the bottom of the bullpen, when what we're interested in is identifying the top of the bullpen.  Though, if pressed, Tampa Bay seems to be doing quite well over the past decade at building the top half of their bullpens; and they're one of the most statistically savvy organizations out there. 
 
That "treatment" won the Red Sox a World Series.  Also, it's never been determined that Foulke's usage in 2004 caused his problems in 2005 and beyond.  It could have been that Foulke just got old and injured at the same time.  The same thing will likely happen to Andrew Miller long before it happens to either Joe Kelly or Ed Rodriguez.  
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
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lexrageorge said:
 
That "treatment" won the Red Sox a World Series. 
 
Granted, but it was akin to pitching a starter on one day of rest.   If managers regularly did that to starters, they'd break down more often too.
 
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MentalDisabldLst

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And if Francona had done it in any situation other than "we're a few outs / one game from elimination and our bullpen is hosed and dammit our team isn't going down without throwing our best reliever out there", I'd join your criticism of it.  But he has no history of abusing pitchers, and if any situation ever called for it, it was that single case.
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
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MentalDisabldLst said:
And if Francona had done it in any situation other than "we're a few outs / one game from elimination and our bullpen is hosed and dammit our team isn't going down without throwing our best reliever out there", I'd join your criticism of it.  But he has no history of abusing pitchers, and if any situation ever called for it, it was that single case.
 
I'm not really criticizing it; just offering the general willingness of teams to work relievers in ways they'd never work starters as one of the things that contributes to the perceived inconsistency of relief pitching relative to starting pitching.  It would be something a team with a long-term investment in a reliever could control in order to limit the injury risk on the back end of the contract.  Unless I'm missing some, almost all of the small number of recent four-year contracts to relievers actually have worked out fairly well (Downs, Affelt, Benoit, Papelbon), which suggests that there might be something to that.