Following Former Celtics & Cs Nostalgia

[InstaFace]

I occasionally see stuff about the Big 3 Era guys, or updates about recent Cs whom we're still wishing well, and there's nowhere to put it - everywhere is an awkward fit, whether it's the General NBA thread or the Celtics 2023-24 thread. I'll start off here with a couple.

Sad: Paul Pierce's LA home burglarized, loses watches, $100k in cash.

Most of the recent ex-Celtics are out injured, which includes Smart, TimeLord, Brogdon (tendinitis, hasn't played in 6 weeks), even Lamar Stevens (missed 5 games with an adductor strain).

One guy who's not? Isaiah Thomas, who just signed a 10-day contract with the Suns, at age 35.

Similarly, Kemba Walker (turning 34 in May) signed with AS Monaco in the EuroLeague for this season. Monaco is 3rd in the EuroLeague standings, behind only Real Madrid and Barcelona, and while Kemba's only playing 11 mins a game, he's shooting 37% on 3s, seems to still be a rotation player there. Monaco is the runaway leader in the French domestic league, with Wembanyama's former squad Metropolitans 92 going from being runner-up to Monaco last season, to being bottom of the table and in the relegation zone today.

Also looking up: Aaron Nesmith has crossed into positive-DARKO territory this year. He isn't just a pain in the ass to us only!

Spoiler: career trendline

Lastly, KG thought that he hadn't earned a jersey retirement from the Celtics, because he'd only gotten one championship for the team. Paul set him straight.

View: https://twitter.com/KevinGarnett5KG/status/1760701098644369525

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Kemba would surely be a full-time starter on most any other team it’s just that he’s playing behind Mike James in Monaco. Jordan Loyd is their 2-guard if anyone remembers him from the Celtics summer league team eons ago. Alpha Diallo, former Providence Friar, their starting 3

 

[The Social Chair]

The YouTube algorithm served this up to me and the NBC intro is a huge bummer.

Edit: you have to rewind the video back to the start.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mA2C5_L-Ixo&t=00s

 

[m0ckduck]

The YouTube algorithm served this up to me and the NBC intro is a huge bummer.

Edit: you have to rewind the video back to the start.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mA2C5_L-Ixo&t=00s

If DARKO had a career plots for players pre-1996, which player (from any era, now or then) would Reggie Lewis resemble through age 27 season? Who's an advanced stats comp for him?

Edit: Mikal Bridges? If Bridges had continued to evolve and hadn't hit a developmental brick wall in Brooklyn?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Most of the recent ex-Celtics are out injured, which includes Smart, TimeLord, Brogdon (tendinitis, hasn't played in 6 weeks), even Lamar Stevens (missed 5 games with an adductor strain).

I know it's not really the intent of this thread, but man, it's ironic that all of the hand-wringing post trade was whether the new-look Cs would stay healthy (pleasestayhealthy) but it's hard to imagine what our team would be like if POBOS hadn't made those moves - and Smart, TL, and Brogdon had gone down.

 

[bigq]

I know it's not really the intent of this thread, but man, it's ironic that all of the hand-wringing post trade was whether the new-look Cs would stay healthy (pleasestayhealthy) but it's hard to imagine what our team would be like if POBOS hadn't made those moves - and Smart, TL, and Brogdon had gone down.

It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.

He never kept a college kid on the roster more than 4 years. Fact.

 

[bakahump]

I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).

 

[astrozombie]

It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.

I wonder what Danny Ainge would have done in some alternate universe where he is still GM for the Celtics. I can't help but feel he would have held onto Smart due to loyalty, held onto TL hoping his value would come back (I love TL, but it won't - he's never going to be the pre-injury TL ever again) and never traded for Brogdon. Danny did a lot of great things, but I like what Brad is doing too, in part because he has, to your point, a knack for knowing when it's time to fold on something.

 

[changer591]

I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).

21 pts was good for 16th in the league back in 92-93. Just as a reference, Anthony Edwards was 16th last year at 24.6. No, Reggie Lewis was not an all-timer like Michael Jordon or many of the players in front of him, but he was damn good for the time and his death really killed the Celtics when he was their only true star. He might not have been an all-time, but I would say he was the equivalent of a very good 1b on a team that had no 1a.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).

The translation from then to now isn't easy, but I'd consider Reggie Lewis as equivalent to JB currently (and Ant Edwards as mentioned above, but he should ascend further upward before his prime). Very similar as well in that Reggie was a nice scorer who could make tough shots, but not a true playmaker making others better. So picture Jaylen as the best player on the team with no JT or Porzingis, then losing him suddenly. That would be a drop from a first or second round playoff team to bottom 3 in the conference (despite D White's best efforts) really quick.

 

[Koufax]

Oddly, I was at the game when he collapsed. In that game -- and that game only -- he looked like Michael Jordan until he crumbled. Otherwise, he was very good but not great.

 

[bigq]

I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).

He was very good. He was a switchable wing who played both sides of the ball well. I remember Michael Jordan saying that Lewis was one of the best defenders he went up against noting that he had big active hands. Lewis and Bias were supposed to be the bridge to continued Celtics excellence post Bird, Parish and McHale.

 

[Devizier]

I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?

I mean, no. But he was a local guy and therefore kind of a hero. Similarity scores are kind of junk but Kerry Kittles is on Lewis’ list of comparables and it’s not the worst one. Lewis was a good not great player, but was getting better as he aged. Not hard to see a healthy Lewis accumulating some good career numbers if he lived.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I mean, no. But he was a local guy and therefore kind of a hero. Similarity scores are kind of junk but Kerry Kittles is on Lewis’ list of comparables and it’s not the worst one. Lewis was a good not great player, but was getting better as he aged. Not hard to see a healthy Lewis accumulating some good career numbers if he lived.

His comps are pretty fucking bonkers. Not sure what value we can take from them.

 

[Devizier]

His comps are pretty fucking bonkers. Not sure what value we can take from them.

He rebounded like a guard?

 

[Jimbodandy]

He rebounded like a guard?

Ha. Yeah that's fair. That's a bunch of guards. But straight scorers, ball-handling distributors, classic shooters, different eras, mix of HoF guys and meh. Fascinating mix.

 

[InstaFace]

His comps are pretty fucking bonkers. Not sure what value we can take from them.

View attachment 79732

Remember, Bk-Ref comps are based on similarity of overall value and shape of career (length vs peak, etc), based purely on win shares - not on playing style or position or responsibilities, nor even on similarity of common box-score rate stats.

Baseball-Reference comps are much more about the comparability of constituent stats. I don't know why they didn't try a similar approach with basketball.

 

[The Social Chair]

Mikal Bridges is a good comp.

Reggie was really good in 1992 playoffs. He averaged 28 ppg during that run.

He probably would be better remembered if they won game 7 against Cleveland and played the Bulls in the ECF.

 

[bosockboy]

He should have been the Pippen to Bias’ Jordan.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

He should have been the Pippen to Bias’ Jordan.

A broke man’s Pippen? We forget that prime Scottie was a Top-5 player in this league. Lewis was approaching his prime when he died and was maybe what a Top 20-30 player? That’s different levels right there.

 

[bosockboy]

A broke man’s Pippen? We forget that prime Scottie was a Top-5 player in this league. Lewis was approaching his prime when he died and was maybe what a Top 20-30 player? That’s different levels right there.

Different yes, but we’ll never know what Pippen would’ve been if he were drafted by, say, the Clippers.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Different yes, but we’ll never know what Pippen would’ve been if he were drafted by, say, the Clippers.

Injured?

 

[snowmanny]

Different yes, but we’ll never know what Pippen would’ve been if he were drafted by, say, the Clippers.

Or the SuperSonics

 

[InstaFace]

Paul puts his foot in his mouth again, on Undisputed:

https://awfulannouncing.com/college-basketball/paul-pierce-white-girl-caitlin-clark-lsu.html

"She [Caitlin Clark] didn’t do this to some other little white girls that were over in Colorado or wherever. She did it to some girls from LSU who we thought were some dogs!"

View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1775181311113634300


I get he was trying to give her the highest compliment he could muster, but... yikes.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Meh. Let's be real, that's how all the old timers talk about Larry Bird.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Speaking of Ex Celtics and the Rick Pitino coaching/drafting tree...Chauncey Billups made the Hall of Fame.

What?

 

[Euclis20]

Speaking of Ex Celtics and the Rick Pitino coaching/drafting tree...Chauncey Billups made the Hall of Fame.

What?

The 2004 Pistons team (known for being the only title team with no real stars) now officially had two HOFers in their absolute prime (and a HOF coach). Sometimes I really like that the basketball hall of fame is more inclusive than the other major sports HOFs, other times...meh.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/allthesmokeprod/status/1776020339262152728

 

[InstaFace]

That's great, Allen thought he was gonna get Pierce's ass there, and he ended up getting got.

 

[InstaFace]

Grant Williams responds to the remarks about him by Mike Gorman

View: https://youtu.be/ZfRKbYsr5pg?si=IT9pBDcI-fucVcMR

 

[Bosoxian]

TheSometimes I really like that the basketball hall of fame is more inclusive than the other major sports HOFs, other times...meh.

The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?

 

[Euclis20]

The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?

Longest tenured owner in NBA history (41 years now). He did what a hundred other guys have done (bought a team), now he just refuses to die or sell. That's something, I guess.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?

Longest tenured owner in NBA history (41 years now). He did what a hundred other guys have done (bought a team), now he just refuses to die or sell. That's something, I guess.

The first thing wasn’t that he only bought the team, and he certainly didn’t do it the way others did, but he saved NBA basketball in Indiana by doing so. After the ABA merger the team was a financial disaster. The owner at the time couldn’t find a buyer and were about to turn the team over to the NBA. Simon didn’t want to buy it and take on all of their debt and couldn’t find an investor but ultimately bought it himself. Carlisle also spoke about how Simon has done so much behind the scenes but didn’t go into details. If an owner deserves to be in it is him.

 

[InstaFace]

Time Lord asked the Cs not to do a tribute video for him on Sunday.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1777102235391991852


Perhaps for reasons known only to him, such as his foreknowledge of a big game for him when visiting next season.

 

[InstaFace]

Grant Williams talks about his recent career and what's gone on in his eyes - and how he wanted a Celtics tribute video, and was disappointed he didn't get one. Among many other things.

View: https://youtu.be/M-_usNP4Pfg

 

[InstaFace]

Kemba Walker retires, after a year in Europe at Monaco. College champion, 4-time all-star. Happy trails.

 

[Kliq]

Kemba Walker retires, after a year in Europe at Monaco. College champion, 4-time all-star. Happy trails.

His knees went and that was it, very sad. Brutal luck for the Celtics, with IT and Kemba back-to-back of being super easy to root for, undersized guards who had their primes cut short by injuries.

 

[astrozombie]

Kemba Walker retires, after a year in Europe at Monaco. College champion, 4-time all-star. Happy trails.

I was a big Walker fan and was so bummed the injuries did him in.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1808562266213617672

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

That's great

Kemba is beloved in Charlotte. Great for that franchise to have him around

 

[InstaFace]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this will do. Ray Allen talks Celtics to Sports Illustrated, says we have to remember to give credit to Danny Ainge for building the present situation we're in, etc. good stuff here.

https://www.si.com/fannation/wrestling/mma/ray-allen-on-conor-mcgregor-hes-one-of-the-best-ever

It also says he's patched up his relationships with KG, PP and the team itself, and is now welcomed back. Does not appear as of the same can be said for Perk, of course, but at least it's nice that Ray and his teammates have let bygones be bygones.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Ray took a lot of flak for leaving and before that for forgetting how to shoot in G7 but ultimately if KG never got hurt the Celtics cruise to at least two titles and quite possibly the threepeat after which I’m pretty sure nobody would’ve given two shits what any of the players decided to do next.

Glad they’ve mended things. The guy is responsible for one of the best/funniest sports moments any of us have ever witnessed.

 

[Van Everyman]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this will do. Ray Allen talks Celtics to Sports Illustrated, says we have to remember to give credit to Danny Ainge for building the present situation we're in, etc. good stuff here.

https://www.si.com/fannation/wrestling/mma/ray-allen-on-conor-mcgregor-hes-one-of-the-best-ever

It also says he's patched up his relationships with KG, PP and the team itself, and is now welcomed back. Does not appear as of the same can be said for Perk, of course, but at least it's nice that Ray and his teammates have let bygones be bygones.

I loved this bit, when they ran into Jordan who told them the hard part was repeating:

“Later in the night, MJ talked about how the hardest part of repeating is the role players no longer want to be role players,” said Allen. “It makes sense. They’re spending all summer hearing how great they are, and then you come back wanting more minutes, more touches. All of a sudden, you’re not doing the same things you did last year to get the team to this place. It’s why you see the destruction of teams after they win championships.”

 

[Euclis20]

Maybe I missed this at some point, but Avery Bradley is working for the Jazz FO in player development:

View: https://twitter.com/GwashburnGlobe/status/1812315289461334061