Fenway Sports Group in Talks to Buy Pittsburgh Penguins

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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He should move the team so Hartford can have an NHL team again

Fixed my wording.
I liked the original wording. Because after leaving Pittsburgh for Hartford, GM Eddie Johnston stripped the Whalers of two key players in Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelson (heart and soul of the franchise), shipped them off to Pittsburgh, and then left Hartford to become GM of Pittsburgh. As others have alluded to in their posts.
 

CaptainBergy

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Jan 17, 2021
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This is awful for boston sports. When the sox dont spend for whatever help they need and pittsburgh splurges in FA... ugh.
 

BigSoxFan

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Does anyone else own 2 franchises from 2 different locations similar to this? I'm pretty sure the NFL doesn't allow it unless it's in the same city.
Josh Harris and others own the Sixers and Devils. And Crystal Palace. They were looking into buying the Mets before Cohen. They’re pretty much trying to do something similar as Fenway Sports Group with their HBSE entity.
 

scottyno

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This is awful for boston sports. When the sox dont spend for whatever help they need and pittsburgh splurges in FA... ugh.
NHL has a salary cap and a salary floor, there isn't really that much they can do to splurge when they'd be spending it anyway.

Also the Sox have an almost 20 year history of spending under Henry, so not such why that would stop now. It should have very little if anything to do with Boston sports.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
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The owners only care about other investments and not the Red Sox. As proof, I offer the fact that they spent to the luxury tax threshold this year and went to game 6 of the ALCS.
 

sodenj5

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He should move the team so Hartford can have an NHL team again

Fixed my wording.
As cool as having a team move to Hartford would be, it seems pretty unlikely that it will be Pittsburgh in the near future. Their current arena is 12 years old and they signed a 30 year lease agreement with Pittsburgh as part of the deal.

Not saying these things can’t be negotiated, but seems pretty unlikely the Penguins will be relocating anywhere anytime soon.
 

Devizier

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As cool as having a team move to Hartford would be, it seems pretty unlikely that it will be Pittsburgh in the near future. Their current arena is 12 years old and they signed a 30 year lease agreement with Pittsburgh as part of the deal.
I haven’t followed hockey since I was a kid, and I’m obviously not following the Penguins. But, there are a few interesting dynamics at play.

One is that hockey is a rich person’s sport. It’s expensive to play and the NHL audience is the wealthiest among professional sports.

Coincidentally, there is a fair bit of hockey development going on in Pittsburgh. Aside from the Lemieux complex in Cranberry, the city is going to convert an old armory in Shadyside (a wealthy east end neighborhood) into a hockey complex. This is during a period where the surrounding neighborhoods are filling up with young wealthy tech workers. Pretty much the demographics you want for hockey.

The Penguins are still a slow (live) ticket in town, pretty much everything is except the Steelers, but there’s definitely room for growth there. Pittsburgh itself isn’t growing but it is becoming richer and has a lot of room to keep doing so, much like Boston >20 years ago. I’d be shocked if we see that level of growth though.
 

cshea

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This is awful for boston sports. When the sox dont spend for whatever help they need and pittsburgh splurges in FA... ugh.
An NHL team spending like drunken sailors in free agency will come in less than or close to, say, the annual value of the Eduardo Rodriguez contract. It's pocket change compared to MLB salaries.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It's not like they're buying the Scabs or (to pick another sport) the Jets or Colts or (to pick another sport) the Lakers or Sixers.
Anyone who was alive and sentient in the early 90s knows how bitterly those Bruins-Penguins playoff series were fought.

I don't like this. I don't like the Penguins. I don't like that the Red Sox ownership is now going to own a direct competitor to the Bruins. It sucks.
 

mikeford

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Aug 6, 2006
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I’m pretty sure Stan Kroenke’s wife owns the Avalanche. Daddy founded Walmart.
While this is technically true, it's literally only because the NFL has a rule about owning other major league sports teams in different NFL cities
Stan Kroenke purchased full ownership in the St. Louis Rams of the National Football League (NFL) in 2010. Since the NFL does not allow its owners to hold majority control of major-league teams in other NFL cities, Kroenke turned over day-to-day control of the Denver Nuggets and Avalanche to his son Josh toward the end of 2010. Kroenke had to sell his controlling interest in both teams by 2014.
Kroenke bought the Avalanche and he bought the Nuggets. Ann is just a convenient shell company, for lack of a better word.

In reality, all of this is owned by KSE:
Los Angeles Rams
Denver Nuggets
Colorado Avalanche
Colorado Rapids (MLS)
Colorado Mammoth (Lacrosse)
Arsenal F.C.
Arsenal W.F.C.
Los Angeles Gladiators (E-sports)
Los Angeles Guerrillas (E-sports)
 
Jul 16, 2005
16
As cool as having a team move to Hartford would be, it seems pretty unlikely that it will be Pittsburgh in the near future. Their current arena is 12 years old and they signed a 30 year lease agreement with Pittsburgh as part of the deal.

Not saying these things can’t be negotiated, but seems pretty unlikely the Penguins will be relocating anywhere anytime soon.
I grew up in Connecticut, so it gives me no pleasure at all to say that Hartford will never have another NHL team
 

Awesome Fossum

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The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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As cool as having a team move to Hartford would be, it seems pretty unlikely that it will be Pittsburgh in the near future. Their current arena is 12 years old and they signed a 30 year lease agreement with Pittsburgh as part of the deal.

Not saying these things can’t be negotiated, but seems pretty unlikely the Penguins will be relocating anywhere anytime soon.
Looking forward to the announcement that the Pittsburgh Penguins will be moving to Worcester, who will build a new stadium called Polar Arena for the team in Main South. The marketing possibilities are endless!
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
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It's fun to hear what your voice really sounds like.
Was at the Museum of Science with my kids a few years ago, could not find this exhibit. Or the one that explains ocean waves. Was pissed.
 

mauf

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I grew up in Connecticut, so it gives me no pleasure at all to say that Hartford will never have another NHL team
Leaving aside whether the market is big enough (it’s borderline), I don’t know where you’d put the arena. Downtown Hartford has declined to the point where I don’t think it’s a viable site. The Buckland Hills area of Manchester has the infrastructure, but is too far from the affluent suburbs west of Hartford where you’d need to find the bulk of your season-ticket holders. Somewhere around Farmington would be ideal, but I don’t think there’s a suitable piece of land to be had.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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First cousin to "My name is Karen".
The little girl in the NE Aquarium commercial was ALSO named Karen.

Remember the frightened mother screaming when her daughter stuck her hand in starfish tank, "HE'LL BITE YOU KAREN!"?

This is every Karen's origin story and why they are always so uptight and frantic in the wild.


EDIT: Underrated line, "OH Dah-dee you have great surprises!" I bet Mom was nodding her head in agreement, "You have no idea, Karen."
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
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Leaving aside whether the market is big enough (it’s borderline), I don’t know where you’d put the arena. Downtown Hartford has declined to the point where I don’t think it’s a viable site. The Buckland Hills area of Manchester has the infrastructure, but is too far from the affluent suburbs west of Hartford where you’d need to find the bulk of your season-ticket holders. Somewhere around Farmington would be ideal, but I don’t think there’s a suitable piece of land to be had.
Tear down XL and rebuild?

Or what about that land to the northeast of the Plainville Big Y? What kind of land is that?
 

shaggydog2000

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Leaving aside whether the market is big enough (it’s borderline), I don’t know where you’d put the arena. Downtown Hartford has declined to the point where I don’t think it’s a viable site. The Buckland Hills area of Manchester has the infrastructure, but is too far from the affluent suburbs west of Hartford where you’d need to find the bulk of your season-ticket holders. Somewhere around Farmington would be ideal, but I don’t think there’s a suitable piece of land to be had.
I'm sure there is a mall in the area they can tack it onto.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Anyone who was alive and sentient in the early 90s knows how bitterly those Bruins-Penguins playoff series were fought.

I don't like this. I don't like the Penguins. I don't like that the Red Sox ownership is now going to own a direct competitor to the Bruins. It sucks.
In the big picture, the Red Sox already ARE a direct competitor to the Bruins (their NESN partnership notwithstanding).

I was in a business meeting in 2005 with a Red Sox exec on the business side, and he said; “We compete daily with one of the best run, most successful sports organizations on earth”, to which my boss at the time replied, “Yeah, the Yankees are tough”…

To which the Red Sox exec laughed and replied; “I don’t mean the Yankees, I’m talking about the Patriots…”
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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In the big picture, the Red Sox already ARE a direct competitor to the Bruins (their NESN partnership notwithstanding).

I was in a business meeting in 2005 with a Red Sox exec on the business side, and he said; “We compete daily with one of the best run, most successful sports organizations on earth”, to which my boss at the time replied, “Yeah, the Yankees are tough”…

To which the Red Sox exec laughed and replied; “I don’t mean the Yankees, I’m talking about the Patriots…”
This pisses me off.

The Red Sox are not competing with the Patriots; most people follow both teams. Unless the Red Sox official meant that the Patriots' unprecedented success put extra pressure on the Sox to perform well.....which is the way it should be. The local teams should ALWAYS support each others' successes, and having the Sox and Pats drop the puck at a Bruins game, for example, strengthens the local community ties between the clubs.

The local teams are NOT in competition with each other. Fans follow all of them and there is considerable overlap there.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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This pisses me off.

The Red Sox are not competing with the Patriots; most people follow both teams. Unless the Red Sox official meant that the Patriots' unprecedented success put extra pressure on the Sox to perform well.....which is the way it should be. The local teams should ALWAYS support each others' successes, and having the Sox and Pats drop the puck at a Bruins game, for example, strengthens the local community ties between the clubs.

The local teams are NOT in competition with each other. Fans follow all of them and there is considerable overlap there.
So what happens when the C's and Bruins play on the same night? They are competing for the same eyeballs.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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So what happens when the C's and Bruins play on the same night? They are competing for the same eyeballs.
So what? They ought to play their best and win games. That will get plenty of eyeballs.

And it's easier than ever to follow two games at once with streaming or other services.

The whole question reeks of outdated thinking. It's unacceptable to me to have the local teams at each other's throats. Win games. Support the other teams. The fans follow all of them.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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This is mind blowing. I have no idea how I never made this connection. And yes, I did just check to see if it was the same Karen in both commercials (it is not).
I was blown away too.

This pisses me off.

The Red Sox are not competing with the Patriots; most people follow both teams. Unless the Red Sox official meant that the Patriots' unprecedented success put extra pressure on the Sox to perform well.....which is the way it should be. The local teams should ALWAYS support each others' successes, and having the Sox and Pats drop the puck at a Bruins game, for example, strengthens the local community ties between the clubs.

The local teams are NOT in competition with each other. Fans follow all of them and there is considerable overlap there.
Wait a second, of course the Red Sox are in competition with the Patriots. And the Celtics. And the Bruins. And the MCU. And Netflix. And xBox. And Playstation. And Star Wars. And HBOGo. And Disney+. The average consumer has X amount of money to spend on entertainment, if the Red Sox don't provide that entertainment, most people will go elsewhere. There are so many reasons NOT to watch a team, every team is always in direct competition to have that spotlight on them, that all-important buzz to themselves.

It's one of the reasons why I was so pissed off when they traded Mookie.

And if you don't think that Robert Kraft looked north and said, "WE want to be New England's team" by knocking off the Red Sox, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure Henry respects Kraft and Wyc and Jacobs, but he wants every cent of every sports fan in the region. And the others do too! It's business. Sure, there is going to be overlap and sure the owners play nicely with each other, but I doubt one bit that John Henry would cry if the Pats moved to Santa Fe and the Celts pulled up stakes for Billings, Montana. Two less franchises to compete with.

It's been this way forever. Tom Yawkey wouldn't let the Braves use Fenway while the team tried to find a new place to play. With all of the other bullshit that asshole did, he pretty much pushed the Braves out of town so that he could have Boston all to himself.
 
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Fred not Lynn

Dick Button Jr.
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Jul 13, 2005
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This pisses me off.

The Red Sox are not competing with the Patriots; most people follow both teams. Unless the Red Sox official meant that the Patriots' unprecedented success put extra pressure on the Sox to perform well.....which is the way it should be. The local teams should ALWAYS support each others' successes, and having the Sox and Pats drop the puck at a Bruins game, for example, strengthens the local community ties between the clubs.

The local teams are NOT in competition with each other. Fans follow all of them and there is considerable overlap there.
“Perform well” means a lot of different things. There’s field-of-play perform well, but there’s so many other areas on the business side where a sports org needs to “perform well”, and both the Kraft Group and FSG are industry leaders, building on each other’s success in a competitive way - to the benefit of all New England sports fans.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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So what? They ought to play their best and win games. That will get plenty of eyeballs.

And it's easier than ever to follow two games at once with streaming or other services.

The whole question reeks of outdated thinking. It's unacceptable to me to have the local teams at each other's throats. Win games. Support the other teams. The fans follow all of them.
Yes, but both discretionary dollars and minutes are finite.
 

scottyno

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This pisses me off.

The Red Sox are not competing with the Patriots; most people follow both teams. Unless the Red Sox official meant that the Patriots' unprecedented success put extra pressure on the Sox to perform well.....which is the way it should be. The local teams should ALWAYS support each others' successes, and having the Sox and Pats drop the puck at a Bruins game, for example, strengthens the local community ties between the clubs.

The local teams are NOT in competition with each other. Fans follow all of them and there is considerable overlap there.
Every single time any person decides to buy a ticket to a game or buy an article of clothing supporting a team or watch a game or even read an article on a team website or social media post (to a much lesser extent) the local teams are competing with each other. They're actually probably more relevant competitors with each other than you seem to think the Bruins and Penguins are.

That has nothing to do with players supporting other teams in their same city, which is something that has been going on for years in Boston.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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So what? They ought to play their best and win games. That will get plenty of eyeballs.

And it's easier than ever to follow two games at once with streaming or other services.

The whole question reeks of outdated thinking. It's unacceptable to me to have the local teams at each other's throats. Win games. Support the other teams. The fans follow all of them.
This all started with someone quoting what a Red Sox executive said 16 years ago. Times have certainly changed since then. Worth noting also that that time period coincides with the "Monster" that Seth Mnookin wrote about feeding. A book that also said that the Red Sox front office at the time was intent on making front page headlines (sports section or not) 365 days a year. So yeah, it might be outdated thinking.

But at the same time, you're thinking like a fan and they're thinking like a business. Others are correct that discretionary dollars and time are finite. Anything that keeps eyeballs from straying is good for business, including other teams/entertainment not attracting eyeballs.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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Why are some here pissed at FSG for buying the Penguins? Why should they give a rat's ass about the Bruins or any other team for that matter when it comes to business ventures that make sense for them? If they look at it as a sound investment that they will make money in, that's the only thing that matters. I could care less that they will own the Penguins while I'm a Bruins fan. It really doesn't matter at all. FSG is in the game to make as much money as possible in all corners of the sports world and that's what they're doing. It's not going to affect my viewing of the Red Sox or the Bruins knowing that the Red Sox owners own a Bruins rival team. I'm not going to turn on the TV and even remember who owns what team. All I care about is that my favorite teams win.
 

bg1025

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Oct 30, 2013
229
Leaving aside whether the market is big enough (it’s borderline), I don’t know where you’d put the arena. Downtown Hartford has declined to the point where I don’t think it’s a viable site. The Buckland Hills area of Manchester has the infrastructure, but is too far from the affluent suburbs west of Hartford where you’d need to find the bulk of your season-ticket holders. Somewhere around Farmington would be ideal, but I don’t think there’s a suitable piece of land to be had.
Prior to it being sold, and also having water isssues, I always thought the old Uconn campus in WH would’ve been an ideal spot. Close to blueback/ WH center, and a stones throw from the Farmington valley. Would’ve attracted major interest.
 

OnTheBlack

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Dec 23, 2020
98
A lot of fandom clouding business judgement. The Bruin's are a much bigger threat to the bottom line of the Red Sox than the Penguins. They compete in the same market for the same discretionary entertainment dollars. What would be interesting from a business perspective is for a group like Fenway to own multiple teams in the same market. I'd imagine there is a lot of synergies to underwrite if that were the case. Bundling tickets, cross-promotion, local tv contract bargaining power, etc...