Wave of mutilation: The latest injuries

Rovin Romine

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There was also the Verdugo Xander collision in May of '22. Xander said much later in the year that it was still negatively affecting his swing. He wasn't terrible, but there were few prime Xander months at the end of '22. He certainly had a very feast or famine '23, and there were shoulder injections. Cold start so far this year. . .
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Most of the season, actually. The collision was on April 11. Ellsbury returned for three games in May before going right back on the IL until August when he played 9 games and then was shut down again. 18 total games played that year. That was also a season in which Pedroia and Youkilis were lost for significant chunks of the season and Buchholz hurt himself running the bases, but I'm fairly certain Beltre had nothing to do with those injuries.
Oh Adrian hated all those guys for the head slaps. He wanted them all injured. He definitely had something to do with it
 

Van Everyman

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Most of the season, actually. The collision was on April 11. Ellsbury returned for three games in May before going right back on the IL until August when he played 9 games and then was shut down again. 18 total games played that year. That was also a season in which Pedroia and Youkilis were lost for significant chunks of the season and Buchholz hurt himself running the bases, but I'm fairly certain Beltre had nothing to do with those injuries.
My abiding memory of that collision was that Cafardo spent the rest of Ellsbury’s career in Boston questioning his toughness.
 

mauidano

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The best of a bad situation. I just kept thinking about Adam Duvall who had started super hot and then got hurt and wasn't quite the same afterwards.
The one difference there is Duvall was out for two months and it appears O'Neill may be out for just a day or two. Unless the bump screwed up his vision somehow, it seems unlikely that it will have a lasting effect.
 

Rovin Romine

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The best of a bad situation. I just kept thinking about Adam Duvall who had started super hot and then got hurt and wasn't quite the same afterwards.
Duval through April 9, 2023: 4 HR and batting .455/.514/1.030/1.544
O'Neill through April 15, 2024: 7 HR and .313/.459/.750/1.209

With luck O'Neill will continue and not become a trivia question.
 

radsoxfan

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E5 Yaz

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Garrett Whitlock said he was removed for precautionary reasons. He felt it during the third inning and doesn’t see it as something that will hold him back from his next start
 

DeadlySplitter

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I was getting excited a bit when Raffy stung that ball. Then I figured he must have tweaked the shoulder again. To hear that it's a non-trivial knee issue is indeed out of nowhere.
 

E5 Yaz

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"I've never had any issues with my legs. That happened today. I don't know what's going on....I don't know what to think about it I've never been the kind of player that's been injured obviously it's frustrating to deal with another pain." -- A dejected Rafael Devers after the game
 

donutogre

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I remember this group really going through it with injuries, but a glance at the GP numbers suggests that my memory doesn't quite match reality.

EDIT: I'm probably thinking of losing Ellsbury and Mike Cameron in short order?
I figured you were talking about 2010. I think between Ellsbury and Cameron there was also Youk and Pedroia missing significant time as well. Beckett also missed a fair bit of time, though the rotation otherwise held up pretty well. Probably how they managed to win 89 in a tough division. If a few things broke better that could have been another really good team... I remember thinking Tito did a great job getting as much as he did out of them.

I would also say that the 2010 team was far more talented than what we have out there, letting them absorb the injuries without it fully stripping them down, if that makes sense.
 

The Gray Eagle

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What a fun time this homestand has been. The Athletic sums it up:
The homestand began with the announcement of Trevor Story’s shoulder surgery. It continued with Nick Pivetta being sidelined with a flexor strain, and then reliever Isaiah Campbell went down with a right shoulder impingement. A day later, infielder Romy González went to the IL with a left wrist sprain after landing hard on the wrist on a diving play. During that stretch, Devers sat four games with a sore shoulder, the Red Sox stayed away from reliever Chris Martin as he dealt with tightness in his left (non-throwing) shoulder, and Tyler O’Neill collided with Devers on Monday, which resulted in eight stitches for a gash above O’Neill’s eye.
That’s not counting Vaughn Grissom and Rob Refsnyder, who began the season on the IL and have been rehabbing in Triple-A Worcester.

“It’s tough, man. It sucks. I’m not going to lie to you. It’s annoying,” Jansen said of the injuries. “That’s how it’s going for us lately.”

The Red Sox are amid a stretch of 19 games in 20 days, and on top of the slew of injuries, the team has committed a multitude of errors and mental mistakes.
Updates:
Before the game, Cora said O’Neill was banged up and likely to be out Wednesday but hoped he could return Thursday. Pivetta threw on flat ground for the third time in four days Tuesday before the game, and González took infield work at shortstop with his wrist taped. Campbell began strengthening work Tuesday after a few days of treatment and is hopeful his IL stay will be short. Martin pitched Tuesday night and appears to be back in action. Refsnyder went 1-for-3 with a homer in Triple A and is nearing a return to the Red Sox. Grissom, who missed all of spring training, also went 1-for-3 for Worcester but is further away, likely needing most of the 20 days allotted for the rehab assignment, which he began Friday.
 

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Man, if only they'd acquire pitchers with proven track records of health of making 25+ starts a year the past three years. Guys like Gerrit Cole Sandy Alcantara Framber Valdez Max Scherzer Lucas Giolito who never get hurt. Then they could put Whitlock in the bullpen where he definitely could never ever pull an oblique muscle.
 

Harry Hooper

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You put Whitlock in the bullpen not to protect his health but to lessen the disruption to your staff when he misses time (as is his wont).
 

mwonow

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Is Joe Jacques the human white flag or the last man standing? Or is it context-dependent? I've lost track.
 

simplicio

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Almost the last man standing; the actual last man (uninjured and on the 40 man) is Uwasawa, who started yesterday in Wooster and will presumably be up to take Whitlock's next start.
 

uncannymanny

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Man, if only they'd acquire pitchers with proven track records of health of making 25+ starts a year the past three years. Guys like Gerrit Cole Sandy Alcantara Framber Valdez Max Scherzer Lucas Giolito who never get hurt. Then they could put Whitlock in the bullpen where he definitely could never ever pull an oblique muscle.
Correct! What they should do is have the thinnest possible pitching staff they can with no ability to withstand injury. And obviously, there’s no middle ground here. Maybe I’ll add some guys who haven’t ever gotten hurt in a comma separated list to make my point!
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Man, if only they'd acquire pitchers with proven track records of health of making 25+ starts a year the past three years. Guys like Gerrit Cole Sandy Alcantara Framber Valdez Max Scherzer Lucas Giolito who never get hurt. Then they could put Whitlock in the bullpen where he definitely could never ever pull an oblique muscle.
Which is better to have in this new era of pitcher injuries, the guys you crossed out who suffer catastrophic Tommy John injuries and miss an entire season once every 3-4 years or a guy like Whitlock who, through various smaller injuries, misses 10 starts every season? Not saying this to be snarky - it's a legitimate thing I'm wondering about. Both outcomes are bad if you're trying to build a contending rotation, but which is worse?
 
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simplicio

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The Whitlock one. Testing your starting depth sucks in the moment but long term it's an opportunity. In 2022 we got unplanned looks at Crawford, Winck and Seabold. None of them were good, but the two of them displayed enough promise to jump start ML careers after some adjustments.

But it would have really sucked if we needed to rely on them for the full season that year. Beyond the not being good yet part, depth guys like that are most often not ramped up to even throw a full season as a starter.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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You put Whitlock in the bullpen not to protect his health but to lessen the disruption to your staff when he misses time (as is his wont).
Bingo.

Whitlock has missed time in the rotation three years running. At some point the chaos such missed time causes to the rotation outweighs the benefits of having him start in the first place. He's yet to crack 80 IP in a season so going all in on his remaining in the rotation for 150 IP+ was a courageous bet, to put it mildly.

In any case here's to hoping he misses only the 10 days.
 

joe dokes

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Bingo.

Whitlock has missed time in the rotation three years running. At some point the chaos such missed time causes to the rotation outweighs the benefits of having him start in the first place. He's yet to crack 80 IP in a season so going all in on his remaining in the rotation for 150 IP+ was a courageous bet, to put it mildly.

In any case here's to hoping he misses only the 10 days.
IMO, it's the same reasoning (disruption & uncertainty) that supported moving on from Sale and supports moving Whitlock to the pen.

Of course, the less-predictable injuries to the otherwise durable Pivetta AND Giolito left them with little wiggle room to drop the "6th" starter from the rotation.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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IMO, it's the same reasoning (disruption & uncertainty) that supported moving on from Sale and supports moving Whitlock to the pen.

Of course, the less-predictable injuries to the otherwise durable Pivetta AND Giolito left them with little wiggle room to drop the "6th" starter from the rotation.
Oh for sure. I guess we can say there are two kinds of injuries, expected and unexpected. Pivetta and Giolito fall into the latter category.
 

Fishy1

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This is way overthinking things, IMO. There's going to be disruption to your starting staff regardless. That's major league baseball. You have the best starters start because you want your best guys throwing the most innings. The Sox have some good depth down at AAA between Criswell, Uwasawa, Fitts, and Gambrell. They'll pitch, that's what they're there for. (I'm really agnostic on all of those AAA guys, but they all deserve something of a shot).

Anyways, agreed that hopefully Whitlock won't miss more than a couple turns through the rotation. He was on his way to the best start of the year when he went down.

EDIT:
Any pitcher is a ticking time bomb. Look around the league at the guys who are going down. It's often the guys who have been most durable whose arms fall off. Gerrit Cole is one of the latest examples. Giolito another.

Yes, Whitlock may have been more likely to go down than the others over the last few years, but anybody's arm can blow up. In fact, the more innings these guys pitch the MORE likely it is they'll go down for a long time. I think they should try to get as much out of Whitlock as they can because there's a good chance he gets injured regardless. The point is to win games.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yes, I completely agree you want your best pitchers throwing the most innings. I guess where the issue arises is HOW to get those pitchers throwing the most innings possible. It may well be that Whitlock isn't able to throw more than 80 innings in a season for whatever reason. The question then becomes, how can we maximize the impact of the innings he does provide? If he can only go 80 innings, is it better to have those innings come in high-leveraged situations? Can they somehow get 120 innings of somewhat lesser leverage, and if so is that worth the tradeoff?

There's a lot of moving parts here.
 

Fishy1

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Yes, I completely agree you want your best pitchers throwing the most innings. I guess where the issue arises is HOW to get those pitchers throwing the most innings possible. It may well be that Whitlock isn't able to throw more than 80 innings in a season for whatever reason. The question then becomes, how can we maximize the impact of the innings he does provide? If he can only go 80 innings, is it better to have those innings come in high-leveraged situations? Can they somehow get 120 innings of somewhat lesser leverage, and if so is that worth the tradeoff?

There's a lot of moving parts here.
It's likely he would have been in the bullpen to start the year until Giolito went down.

Anyway, I just think it's likely a mistake of being too clever by half to fiddle too much this way. Yeah, he's been injured for parts of each of the last few seasons, and that stinks, but since it's pretty much unknowable what's going to happen to a guys arm...if he can start and you need him to start and he can be effective, you start him.

The league is littered with guys who are injured for a few years straight, and then break out for 150 innings plus. 120 innings, even 150 innings as a starter, are still on the table, FWIW, for Whitlock, if he only misses 3 starts here.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to fall for induction and assume that this guy has been injured in the past, he's therefore going to be injured in the future, over and over. That may be true, but even the guys who are chronically injured have the occasional season where they throw 28-30 starts. If we missed out on that because we wanted to avoid uncertainty and tell him, no way can you start, you're too injury-prone, I think that would be a mistake. A pitcher can still get hurt throwing max effort out of the bullpen, after all.

Anyways, if we even get 20 or 25 starts from Whitlock, the way he's throwing, that'll be more than worth it. He's been that good to start the year.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It's likely he would have been in the bullpen to start the year until Giolito went down.

Anyway, I just think it's likely a mistake of being too clever by half to fiddle too much this way. Yeah, he's been injured for parts of each of the last few seasons, and that stinks, but since it's pretty much unknowable what's going to happen to a guys arm...if he can start and you need him to start and he can be effective, you start him.

The league is littered with guys who are injured for a few years straight, and then break out for 150 innings plus. 120 innings, even 150 innings as a starter, are still on the table, FWIW, for Whitlock, if he only misses 3 starts here.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to fall for induction and assume that this guy has been injured in the past, he's therefore going to be injured in the future, over and over. That may be true, but even the guys who are chronically injured have the occasional season where they throw 28-30 starts. If we missed out on that because we wanted to avoid uncertainty and tell him, no way can you start, you're too injury-prone, I think that would be a mistake. A pitcher can still get hurt throwing max effort out of the bullpen, after all.

Anyways, if we even get 20 or 25 starts from Whitlock, the way he's throwing, that'll be more than worth it. He's been that good to start the year.
Part of my issue with it is that the Sox' problem for the past few years has been not getting enough innings from the starters for a variety of reasons. I am hoping that with Bailey on board they can figure out a program that puts their most durable pitchers in the best position to eat up a lot of innings.

Your other point is interesting: at what point does a team pivot from attempting to maximize a pitcher's innings due to injury? I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't know if Whitlock is at the point where the team should consider pivoting on him. Certainly from his own POV he'd rather start as that is where the big money will be.
 

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I was always hoping that Whitlock would settle into the setup/closer role because he was so good in '21 and part of '22. He's got great stuff, I just don't know that he's durable enough to go more than 4 innings at a time.
 

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I was always hoping that Whitlock would settle into the setup/closer role because he was so good in '21 and part of '22. He's got great stuff, I just don't know that he's durable enough to go more than 4 innings at a time.
I think this is a piece that is hard to understand, at least for me. Is it more strain to throw 80-100 pitches every 5 days, or 1 max effort inning 3-4 times/week?