Everton 23-24: You Don’t Own Me (Yet)

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Sunny von Bulow
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The 718
New thread for a new season.

Sean Dyche averaged about a half-point per game more than Lampard, although that's a low bar - Team Lampard (if you combined his Everton and Chelsea seasons, giving him his ppg average for the games he didn't manage) would have finished dead last in the league. I like Dyche a lot, more than I thought I would. I hope he sticks around.

Here's the squad. Departures in strikethrough, additions italicized. (L)=loan (inj)=currently out injured

Goalkeepers: Pickford, Begovic, Virginia, Lonergan

Pickford's on a new deal and says he wants to stay at Everton. He was very good last season. His reputation as a flake and wierdo is set and well deserved, but he has matured. Not thrilled with U21 graduate Joao Virginia as the #2 - he won't develop on the bench and his loans have been underwhelming.

Rumors for the rest of the window: a couple of Championship keepers floated as possible backups

Defenders: Coleman (inj), Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Keane, Godfrey, Holgate, Mina, Coady, Young, Mykolenko, Patterson, Nkonkou, Vinagre

Tark was the only outfield player in the league to play 90 x 38 last season. Excellent addition and he's the rock of the back four and the captain in Coleman's absence. Expect 6'4" youngster Jarrad Branthwaite to start alongside. He excelled at PSV Eindhoven last season, and has attracted interest from big clubs. He might help address the biggest problem with the defense - they're slooow up the gut. Conor Coady, now at Leicester, started alongside Tark under Lampard; Dyche preferred Keane. Both played passably well but both have the turning speed of an aircraft carrier and sides were able to just rip us apart with a simple ball over the top. The hugely gifted, lovable, but fragile Yerry Mina is gone. Holgate and Godfrey suck. Patterson was brought in to succeed Coleman at RB, but has had injuries himself and is raw. Myko is a good man-marker but has offered nothing going forward. I was not happy when they got 38 year old Ashley Young but he looks great, has plenty of attacking intent, can play both fullback positions, is a solid dude, and the Villa fans flooded the Everton boards to say that we'd love him and they never should have let him leave. James Garner, a midfielder by trade, was unexpectedly deployed at RB by the England U21 Euro squad, which won the tourney. He excelled there with some MOTM performances so it will be interesting to see if Dyche uses him there.

Young - Branthwaite - Tark - Garner is probably the best back four we have.

Rumors for the rest of the window: Holgate to Southampton; Maguire in from Utd. I'd like another CB.

Midfielders: Iwobi, Onana, Garner, Doucoure, Dele (inj), Gueye, Gomes, Gbamin, Davies, Townsend, Mills (L) Harrison (L)(inj)

Decent depth here. Harrison is a sound addition albeit likely out for a couple more weeks. Gueye is looking a little creaky over 90 minutes and offers zero in attack but can still break up attacks and hunt the ball at an elite level. Iwobi's end product is goofy but he makes things happen by just running at people. Onana is a star in the making. Forgotten man Dele got a lot of attention with his riveting interview about suffering abuse as a child and his struggles with addiction. He's recovering from injury, will likely not be match fit for some weeks, was truly dreadful on loan in Turkey, and we'd owe Spurs a lot of money if he played 10 more games for Everton, so I don't expect anything. Andros Townsend is likely to retire and Tom Davies has taken his skateboard to Sheffield.

Rumors: Onana to Utd but it's highly unlikely they'd sell. Gomes and Gbamin will likely be offloaded, they have no future at the club.

Forwards: Calvert-Lewin, Maupay, McNeil (inj), Gray, Danjuma (L), Chermiti, Cannon, Dobbin, Simms, Kean,

For the first time in a long time, DCL is pronounced fit. I am a complete fanboy so fingers crossed. Before his troubles last season he had a good health record. The side is just night-and-day better with him in it. Maupay just cannot fill in for him - it's unfair to him to expect him to be a target 9 - holdup man - the idea behind Maupay was that he could be a Richarlison - type pest, running at the goal to complement a classic hold-up player in DCL. But let's face it, he's been awful. He's something like 1-for-30 for shots in the box in his time with the club. I feel bad for him. Dwight McNeil had a breakout season under Dyche. Over the last quarter of the season his numbers, both actual and expected, put him among the league leaders. He scored and he created. Unfortunately he did his knee a bit in a friendly and will be out for a few weeks. Danjuma was all set to go to Everton last season but changed his mind at the last minute and of course famously sat on the bench at Spurs. To credit both him and the club he was refreshingly open about it, he said the club was a tire fire at the time and Lampard was obviously dead man walking, and the club kept its interest. Intriguing acquisition Youssef Chermiti is a 6'4" 19yo from Sporting - very raw, probably too raw to rely on right away which is why the rumors for Che Adams. Keep an eye on academy product Lewis Dobbin who tore it up in preseason and may have forced his way into the mix

Rumors: Gionto from Leeds. He badly wants the move and is trying to force his way out of town. He's submitted a written demand. I'm not sure if another wide-ish type player is what we need but I"m not going to complain about the club going after good attacking talent. Che Adams from Southampton. I'd be fine with this - he's not going to set the world on fire but he's a like-for-like replacement for DCL who can play with his back to goal. Some Italian club supposedly wants Maupay.

It doesn't sound like much and it's scandalous that they went into the first game without match-fit replacements for Dom but to be honest I like what they've done this window. It's been fiscally responsible and I'm good with all of the individual moves - whether there have been enough pieces added is debatable and there are still a few outgoings needed.

But I think that if DCL can stay healthy and/or they can get good forward play from elsewhere, this side will not go down and could challenge for top-half.

But the best part about this season is that I AM GOING TO THE NEXT HOME GAME.

69404

Mrs O, Teen O and I fly Thursday to Manchester. Game on Saturday, Goodison tour on Sunday, knocking around Yorkshire and Scotland for another week.

View: https://youtu.be/tKnG06-oYcg

NSNO
UTFT
 
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OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Welp.

Assuming DCL and Iwobi injuries aren’t long term andwith McNeil band Harrison both back soon, I’m less concerned about the attack than the defending, based on this beatdown at Villa. Tarkowski needs someone with pace beside him and Keane ain’t it. Patterson has looked awful, no positional awareness. Gueye is slow and Onana, for all his talent, has been a non factor at the 6. Nothing stopping Villa from having their way.
 

67YAZ

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The Athletic details the collapse of investment talks with MSP. My big take away is that Moshiri, in his ever increasing desperation, has cobbled together overly complex plans to regain finance for club and stadium…a real Rube Goldberg situation that requires some partner to pony up £150m plus to get the club over the next hill.

It will be a miracle if this club avoids administration. It’s a fucking travesty what Moshiri & Usmanov have done to a great club.
 

kobayashis bail bonds

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I'll be damned if I can make sense of the latest EFC financial news. It seems bad, but more than that, it seems impenetrably convoluted. The Evertonians I follow seem to think that this is the end, but they're a generally dour group already. And I honestly cannot tell *how* awful this is -- whether it's just run-of-the-mill Thursday awful for this club, whether it's an inflection point toward their relegation, or toward their administration, or toward their demise. I lack the willpower needed to disentangle it all.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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I'll be damned if I can make sense of the latest EFC financial news. It seems bad, but more than that, it seems impenetrably convoluted. The Evertonians I follow seem to think that this is the end, but they're a generally dour group already. And I honestly cannot tell *how* awful this is -- whether it's just run-of-the-mill Thursday awful for this club, whether it's an inflection point toward their relegation, or toward their administration, or toward their demise. I lack the willpower needed to disentangle it all.
Completely warranted.

I apply Occams Razor to the Gordian knot of Evertons suckitude like this:

Moshiri is a front man/ bag man for Usmanov.

once you accept this as true, it all makes sense.
 

67YAZ

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Anything that puts Everton on stable footing, see out the move to a new stadium, and provide Premier League support is a vast improvement.

But looking at this passage, there may be some very tense relations between these potential owners and the supporters.

70754
 

swiftaw

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Yeah, I read that too, and I was like "What?" They want to use the club to sell you cars and insurance? I'm not sure "Monetize the fans" is a phrase that gives fans the warm and fuzzies.
 

singaporesoxfan

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It doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, but as cringe it might be, it at least is a premise that requires that Everton be successful on the field, which was less clear with Moshiri/Usmanov. If Everton qualifies for Europe, I'd at least give them the courtesy of hearing out an Everton-branded sales pitch.

My bigger concern is 777's other clubs aren't currently doing well, but that doesn't seem to be an issue specifically with monetizing their brands.
 

shaggydog2000

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It doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, but as cringe it might be, it at least is a premise that requires that Everton be successful on the field, which was less clear with Moshiri/Usmanov. If Everton qualifies for Europe, I'd at least give them the courtesy of hearing out an Everton-branded sales pitch.

My bigger concern is 777's other clubs aren't currently doing well, but that doesn't seem to be an issue specifically with monetizing their brands.
It sounds like there are also some money questions. These guys snap up teams in financial distress and try to find ways to generate more income but don't seem to invest much in the teams from what I can tell. The article talks about their assets, but it may be that very little of it is liquid. They might not have the cash on hand to improve Everton the way they need to in order to keep it in the EPL. Moshiri clearly doesn't have EPL level cash without his Uzbek sugar daddy, but I don't know if these guys would be a huge improvement.
 

thehitcat

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This feels both like someone saying the quiet part out loud, so maybe not too bad, as well as someone who doesn't understand, despite their other clubs, the difference between owning a club and owning a franchise, which bodes poorly. I hope for the fan's sake that they do what is necessary in order to open the conversation about other club branded merchandise but I'm not holding my breath.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Generally Everton fan sentiment is running against 777, as bad as Moshiri is. The Liege fan protests are often cited.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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That whole “monetize the fans” thing is about as anti-Everton fan sentiment as you can get. If this fellow ever set foot in the Winslow Pub or the Hot Wok on match day he’d get an earful.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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What is this feud between Gray and Dyche?
Oh this- Gray posted on IG that the club didn’t appreciate him. Dyche basically said no one is bigger than the club. He was not much used after McNeil caught fire so it was clear he was going to be sold.
 

the1andonly3003

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It doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, but as cringe it might be, it at least is a premise that requires that Everton be successful on the field, which was less clear with Moshiri/Usmanov. If Everton qualifies for Europe, I'd at least give them the courtesy of hearing out an Everton-branded sales pitch.

My bigger concern is 777's other clubs aren't currently doing well, but that doesn't seem to be an issue specifically with monetizing their brands.
Isn't Sevilla in UCL?

Doesn't Dave Fishwick get a ton of business to his bus business at Burnley?
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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That whole “monetize the fans” thing is about as anti-Everton fan sentiment as you can get. If this fellow ever set foot in the Winslow Pub or the Hot Wok on match day he’d get an earful.
Think he'd get a little more than an earful


70783
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This was pretty much the highlight of our Goodison match day experience, accoutrements-wise-

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I've got some other pix that youze will enjoy, I'll post later.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Chairman of the Board Bill Kenwright has left the building.

72917

The #1 target of fan ire. Last of the old-school self-made local-hero club leaders.

More later on what this means. The 777 sale is on a knife edge due to concerns re: 777's financial strength.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Chairman of the Board Bill Kenwright has left the building.

View attachment 72917

The #1 target of fan ire. Last of the old-school self-made local-hero club leaders.

More later on what this means. The 777 sale is on a knife edge due to concerns re: 777's financial strength.
From the press statement:

Everton Football Club is in mourning following the death of Chairman Bill Kenwright CBE, who passed away peacefully last night aged 78, surrounded by his family and loved ones.

Everton’s longest serving chairman for more than a century, Bill Kenwright led the Club through a period of unprecedented change in English football.

A lifelong Evertonian, he became a board member on October 23, 1989, and then on Boxing Day 1999 his True Blue Holdings consortium acquired the Club. Initially vice-chairman, he succeeded his close friend Sir Philip Carter as Chair in 2004.

In his 19 seasons as Chairman, the Club secured 12 top eight finishes, including a top four finish in 2005, a run to the 2009 FA Cup final and European qualification on 6 separate occasions.

The club has lost a chairman, a leader, a friend, and an inspiration. The thoughts and prayers of everyone at Everton are with his partner Jenny Seagrove, his daughter Lucy Kenwright, grandchildren and everybody who knew and loved him.
He passed away on the anniversary of becoming a board member. As I've said before, Kenwright was like a nice version of Dan Snyder, a lifelong fan who bought the club he loved and was hated by the fans for what he did to it. The last few (Mosseri) years in particular really hurt his reputation - 12 top 8 finishes out of 19 would be very respectable, but they largely came at the start of his tenure.
 

CodPiece XL

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Various non tabloid as well as tabloid UK news papers going all out with the story that Everton face a 12pt deduction due to breaches of FFP. No idea if it happens but doesn’t sound good.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Carragher raised the double standard that would be given the outstanding charges facing City... but I am resigned to nothing ever coming of things like shell company sponsorships or player sales between teams with ownership groups acting as mutual slush funds, so long as it's adequately lawyered
 

CodPiece XL

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Carragher raised the double standard that would be given the outstanding charges facing City... but I am resigned to nothing ever coming of things like shell company sponsorships or player sales between teams with ownership groups acting as mutual slush funds, so long as it's adequately lawyered
I think he said something along the lines of if Everton are punished and all things being equal, Man City would land up in the 5th division.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This is *supposedly *what the PL asked for. The decision is up to an independent body which is not bound by what the Pl says re: either guilt or penalty. It smells like improper attempts to influence them in the court of public opinion.
 

CodPiece XL

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This is *supposedly *what the PL asked for. The decision is up to an independent body which is not bound by what the Pl says re: either guilt or penalty. It smells like improper attempts to influence them in the court of public opinion.
No idea what the eventual outcome will be. I just thought it strange that the more “ intelligent “ newspapers were running with it. If it was the daily mirror or daily mail I wouldn’t have bothered posting. I guess we will find out soon enough ( this week I guess).
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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They are running the story, I don’t blame them, what is lost in the game of telephone is that the PL has no power and not even an official role.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Correction: the PL is the complainant so they are presenting the prosecution side. But they are not the arbiter.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This is some Bullshit.

IMG_5644.jpegIMG_5645.jpegIMG_5646.jpeg
They’re just getting around to looking at Chelsea. If it’s 10 points for Everton, Chelsea should end up in the ninth tier.

There is no stay pending appeal, as I understand, so we’re now in 19th.

Even if this stands NFW we’re going down. We’re one of the form clubs in the league and all they’ve done is galvanize the fans.
 
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OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Always think of Jerry Tarkanian-

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we’re the kind of club to make an example of.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This is the prevailing sentiment on the Everton boards

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SocrManiac

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Everton getting slapped almost instantly while City continue to thumb their nose at the league is some shit.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Everton getting slapped almost instantly while City continue to thumb their nose at the league is some shit.
73945

maybe I'm looking at it through my Everton bias but I think this is going to be a PR nightmare for the PL.

It was an independent body that made the 10-pt decision. Everton's appeal goes to the PL. Wouldn't be suprised if the league cuts it substantially. This slots right in with the narrative of the corruption around VAR, etc. and compares verrrrry unfavorably with the Super League (non) penalty.
 

Royal Reader

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I'd be absolutely fuming if I were a Leicester or Leeds fan. It was beyond obvious that Everton were spending beyond their means the last 2-3 seasons. But of course, the penalty doesn't get applied until the season when the relegation battle isn't close and there'll be no actual consequence.

The good news is that if this is what happens with the equivalent of a guilty plea on one charge, they have to relegate City once Abu Dhabi's lawyers run out of ways to delay things any further.
 

67YAZ

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I’ll also add that the UK gov & EPL found a way to pretty surgically target Roman & minimize the impact on Chelsea.

But much like NCAA penalties, this is going to hit the current players & staff as well the die hard supporters while the real culprits skulk away.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I'd be absolutely fuming if I were a Leicester or Leeds fan. It was beyond obvious that Everton were spending beyond their means the last 2-3 seasons. But of course, the penalty doesn't get applied until the season when the relegation battle isn't close and there'll be no actual consequence.

The good news is that if this is what happens with the equivalent of a guilty plea on one charge, they have to relegate City once Abu Dhabi's lawyers run out of ways to delay things any further.
Southampton, Leicester, Leeds and Burnley are going to sue Everton.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/17/everton-deducted-10-points-premier-league-guilty-financial-fair-play-breach

The problem centres around the club’s initial spend on their new stadium at Bramley Moore Dock. Everton believe they have a number of mitigating factors, which they explained to the commission. One issue Everton faced was having to pull out of a lucrative naming rights deal for the stadium with Alisher Usmanov’s holding company, USM, which was worth about £200m, after Russia invasion of Ukraine.

The ruling surpasses the nine-point deduction handed to Portsmouth in 2010 for going into administration. Middlesbrough are the only other club to have been punished in this manner. They received a three-point deduction for postponing a fixture against Blackburn at short notice, saying they were unable to field a team because of injury and illness.

Everton said in a statement: “The club believes that the commission has imposed a wholly disproportionate and unjust sporting sanction

… Everton maintains that it has been open and transparent in the information it has provided to the Premier League and that it has always respected the integrity of the process. The club does not recognise the finding that it failed to act with the utmost good faith and it does not understand this to have been an allegation made by the Premier League during the course of proceedings. Both the harshness and severity of the sanction imposed by the commission are neither a fair nor a reasonable reflection of the evidence submitted.

“The Club will also monitor with great interest the decisions made in any other cases concerning the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules.”

Manchester City have been charged with more than 100 alleged breaches of the rules by the Premier League but are yet to have a verdict amid legal wrangling on both sides. City have denied wrongdoing. Chelsea are under investigation for alleged breaches relating to the era of Roman Abramovich’s ownership.

Steve Rotheram, mayor of Liverpool city region, said: “This is an excessive and grossly unfair punishment for a single charge – and makes a rod for the PL’s back in future. I’ll be supporting the club in their appeal.”
Everton spent too much money, but they have valid defenses. But-for the $200M writeoff when Usmanov got defenestrated, they'd be in compliance; and there are legit disagreements re: accounting treatments for the capital expenditure and interest for the stadium.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This is really what’s going on.

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Everton are being served up as a sacrificial lamb to try to head off aggressive government regulation
 

Joe D Reid

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Everton are being served up as a sacrificial lamb to try to head off aggressive government regulation
Sunak included the proposed creation of a governmental football watchdog in the King's Speech. If the PL thinks that a clownshow is the way to head that off, well...good luck, I suppose.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Its certainly a disproportionate punishment if we're going on past precedent. They only gave Pompey a nine point deduction for going into administration.

I do think it comes in a good year for Everton and that they'll be well clear of the drop by February. Still very harsh and understandably infuriating for Everton fans.

I realize this is the Everton thread but I do think the PL has established a benchmark here that does tie their hands a bit in the City and Chelsea cases. Of course the cynic in me says never underestimate the willingness of the PL and powers-that-be in football to let those clubs slide on their obvious financial bullshit. But the PL must know that giving Everton a 10 point deduction will just make it that much harder in the court of public opinion to let either of those clubs off lightly in the end.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Its certainly a disproportionate punishment if we're going on past precedent. They only gave Pompey a nine point deduction for going into administration.

I do think it comes in a good year for Everton and that they'll be well clear of the drop by February. Still very harsh and understandably infuriating for Everton fans.

I realize this is the Everton thread but I do think the PL has established a benchmark here that does tie their hands a bit in the City and Chelsea cases. Of course the cynic in me says never underestimate the willingness of the PL and powers-that-be in football to let those clubs slide on their obvious financial bullshit. But the PL must know that giving Everton a 10 point deduction will just make it that much harder in the court of public opinion to let either of those clubs off lightly in the end.
Absolutely and other than a few hardcore Leicester and Leeds fans and Everton haters the commentary online is overwhelmingly that this is way too harsh. The amount Everton were deemed to be over was 19M. That’s one player.

Even Sky, to take a second hand post at face value, is saying it’s harsh. Sky loves the big clubs.

I’m predicting a reduction to 4-6 pts.
 

DJnVa

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1-Yes, that's good business.
2-We can figure out what Richarlison has actually been worth...
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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1-Yes, that's good business.
2-We can figure out what Richarlison has actually been worth...
Yeah Everto have many good arguments in their favor but the idea that other clubs held them over a barrel is shrug emoji- that’s how the world works
 

Theodoric

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Honestly, this doesn't seem too bad for Everton. The number of points seems a bit harsh--6 is probably more fair--but the timing more than makes up for it. The bottom three are so dire that you'll still stay up. Six points last season would have meant relegation. Six points next season, with almost certainly better promoted clubs, could put you in the mix again.

I'd be more concerned if I were a Chelsea or City fan. Setting a precedent that FFP violations have real teeth can't be good for them.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Honestly, this doesn't seem too bad for Everton. The number of points seems a bit harsh--6 is probably more fair--but the timing more than makes up for it. The bottom three are so dire that you'll still stay up. Six points last season would have meant relegation. Six points next season, with almost certainly better promoted clubs, could put you in the mix again.

I'd be more concerned if I were a Chelsea or City fan. Setting a precedent that FFP violations have real teeth can't be good for them.
I think that's right. If Everton ends up staying up despite this, then I kind of regard it as a win-win. Precedent is set and maybe there is some actual deterrence. It seems to me that what would really effect change is a process that cannot be delayed indefinitely by those with nearly unlimited legal fees to spend. You want due process and fairness, but I wonder if there's any opportunity for the league to impose something a little more streamlined in terms of agreed upon dispute resolution.