Man, I gotta think if the Jets were dumping Saleh there would've been a push notification on my phone Monday morning around 8 am.
End of an Era: Bill Belichick and Patriots to part ways
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Oh I doubt they do it, but Saleh is not a guy who they wouldn't be willing to replace in a heartbeat if they found the right alternative. I think for now, they figure, ride out this last year of Rodgers and if it goes poorly clean house with napalm... GM, Coach, Assistants, lockerroom attendents, landscapers... everybody.
Bill spent a large chunk of the pre-game on Sunday talking with Rodgers, then gave more of an embrace to Rodgers post-game than anyone else. I don't think Rodgers would be a non-starter for Bill. The rest of the Jets though probably present problems.
Have you had them checked recently? Always good to keep on top of your health.
Belichick's not going to the Jets, guys. He wouldn't do that, even if the state of the Jets was good. But it's very bad and the owner is a buffoon and Bill wouldn't go within 5 miles of working for Woody Johnson.
Rodgers is going to be 40, coming off a serious injury. One year, Peyton Manning was winning the MVP and then next year he got a serious injury and got benched for Brock Osweiler before getting the job back because Brock was just as bad.
Rodgers is going to be 40, coming off a serious injury. One year, Peyton Manning was winning the MVP and then next year he got a serious injury and got benched for Brock Osweiler before getting the job back because Brock was just as bad.
This forum can't help but self-flagellate and predict doom lately. It's OK everyone, we already paid our karmic debt in the 80s and 90s.
Never post, been lurking since 2001 and then became a member in 2005. Both forums…after Tim’s death in October, I was rocked. This feels even worse. The end of the greatest sports town run ever. And I got to witness and revel in it. Wow, there will never EVER be another like this in any era EVER. Just because. Thank you for all the great memories, laughs, and tears.
What an incredible press conference. Just on all fronts. The questions were good and the answers were better. I believed him, right down the line. The only time he was evasive was on the question whether Bill fought for his job, which was not a question he would ever have answered. Just a crazy throwback to a time when press conferences didn't seem like an absolute waste of time.
I know we say we're just like any other team now. And that's mostly true. But we do have a really good owner.
I don't have much sadness today with Bill leaving because I've relegated myself to expect this probably starting after the Dallas game. It's more of an appreciation for everything he's done. Everything great comes to an end and none of this 25 year run will ever, ever be replicated again. I'm also feeling that it needed to happen for this organization to start to move on and try to create the next great Patriots team.
Oh my god, the fucking pin. Felger and Mazz apparently were right to devote about 2 hours of coverage to the placement of the goddamn pin.
Rich Camarillo? I mean he was no Ray Guy, but I don't recall him really being the problem.
I didn't see it that way. It was a typical backwards-looking "now we know these were signs." Literally the only new thing in there is about Mayo. Which, while logical, was unsupported by any instances where BB's unease somehow manifested itself into action.
Lmao I LOVE this pin shit. Of all the things that have taken on a life of its own.
Analyzing anything Bill does at the coach’s breakfast is laughable. But then again, remember the orange juice….how did we not see this coming?! Robert prefers GRAPEFRUIT JUICE.
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Analyzing anything Bill does at the coach’s breakfast is laughable. But then again, remember the orange juice….how did we not see this coming?! Robert prefers GRAPEFRUIT JUICE.
IIRC, he seemed to have a really bad combination of long punts and short hang times. (That was when hangtimes were sort of newly recorded).
16 years! But that may have been what you meant.
Kraft said that Belichik did not have complete control originally but rather that it came after the 3rd Super Bowl. So, maybe that’s what you meant by 20 years (17) but I found it interesting that he earned complete control. And then, that that is what was his downfall- that it wouldn’t be fair to take that way from a decision maker.
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Rich Camarillo was first or second team all-pro four seasons (only one with Pats). He wasn't part of the problem at all.
I agree. I have to say, I LOVE Mike Reiss and adore his coverage of the team, and that piece felt beneath him. Not much news there (Kraft didn't attend a few road games!?).
Wouldn't have gotten as many clicks, but I would rather read a 5,000 word piece of untold stories or memories from his time covering Belichick, behind the scenes stories, etc.
I also didn't see the Reiss piece as anything close to a hit piece, I think it was just contextualizing a series of events that may have seemed small in isolation but painted the picture of a relationship that had probably deteriorated a bit. But yeah, Mike is a voice for ownership, has always been.
I wish I could find it, but didn't someone post a story in one of the 37 BB threads with that same information in it a few weeks ago? (That's the only reason it wasn;t new to me).
I'm fine with the Reiss piece. I'm sure the nostalgic stuff will come later. Two very accomplished men struggled under the weight of a really bad year. I didn't read it as a hit piece.
I had never heard about the pin. It's a weird way to lead off the story. But, what is the deal there? Why did Bill do that? I'm not asking if it means anything. The implication that Bill does not support Robert's stuff seems a little extravagant for Reiss.
But does anyone else think it's fucking weird? He looks like a dope with a pin in the middle of his shirt. Clearly he was trying to say something. Just "I'm an iconoclast and nobody tells me what to do"? I guess I'm cool with that. That's our Bill -- and what made him great. But he looks absurd in that picture. Fucking weird.
Sorry, don't mean to rehash something that was a sports talk radio obsession or whatever, but I had never seen that.
I had never heard about the pin. It's a weird way to lead off the story. But, what is the deal there? Why did Bill do that? I'm not asking if it means anything. The implication that Bill does not support Robert's stuff seems a little extravagant for Reiss.
But does anyone else think it's fucking weird? He looks like a dope with a pin in the middle of his shirt. Clearly he was trying to say something. Just "I'm an iconoclast and nobody tells me what to do"? I guess I'm cool with that. That's our Bill -- and what made him great. But he looks absurd in that picture. Fucking weird.
Sorry, don't mean to rehash something that was a sports talk radio obsession or whatever, but I had never seen that.
This sucks. A lot. There is no guarantee the Pats next coach, or the one after, or the one after will be any good. Look at the high churn rate across the league and how BB frequently pantsed other ‘good’ coaches. Things can get a lot lot worse when this 5 year stretch moves into 10 and 15 years.
NOW - put on your tinfoil hats. I got this figured out. This is all a ruse.
Mayo becomes head coach but BB is the puppetmaster behind the scenes. Then early next year BB is brought back as head head coach.
Why?? So BB can avoid Hard Knocks obviously!
Hard Knocks wont follow new coaches (Mayo) and hard knocks will have committed elsewhere before BB pops up on the sideline.
‘BB always 1 step ahead.
NOW - put on your tinfoil hats. I got this figured out. This is all a ruse.
Mayo becomes head coach but BB is the puppetmaster behind the scenes. Then early next year BB is brought back as head head coach.
Why?? So BB can avoid Hard Knocks obviously!
Hard Knocks wont follow new coaches (Mayo) and hard knocks will have committed elsewhere before BB pops up on the sideline.
‘BB always 1 step ahead.
Maybe it's a scenario like this: some very earnest persons, working either for the Pats or the non-profit, sent out a barrage of emails and instructions with reminders about wearing the pin and exactly where on your shirt and whatnot. They over-saturated the messaging, and BB is kind of "enough with all the stuff about the pins" that really doesn't have anything to do with his feelings about Kraft or the cause. I posted that "Office Space" photo thinking along these lines.
I guess in thinking about it more, it is a weird thing for Reiss to lead with. Your scenario makes as much sense as anything else. I get emails like that all the time. I just suck it up and do what I'm told, but that's probably why I have 333 fewer NFL wins than Bill.
This is going to be so weird. Having a coach that wears the pin, that tries to give bullshit press conference answers, all that stuff. I'm going to miss Bill so much. I hope the next guy has a little personality at least. Something quirky or something. Like, I hate to admit it, but I kind of like Mike McDaniel. He's at least interesting occasionally. I hope we get interesting.
It just hit me and I started crying. Not sad tears, appreciative tears, tears of closure. I can’t believe all this happened, and it happened during the prime energy years of my life. Everything that happened…it really happened. Five lifetimes worth of memories in a quarter of a lifetime. I just cannot fathom all this happened. It’s too much. It’s more than we deserved.
Wow.
Wow.
If one subscribes to the idea that Tom left because the talent on offense was woefully inadequate for a twilight run at another ring (yes, cap issues, etc.), it’s a bit ironic that the same poor drafting on that side of the ball led to Bill’s departure, as well. If one were adapting a Greek tragedy, this might feature well as a particular GM’s Achilles heel.
Wow, you are right. I was thinking of 2008 but obviously that didn’t happen and would have been the 4th.
Anyway, so 20 years is exactly correct (2004 to today, not 2008). You’re right. I still think it is interesting that initially Belichik didn’t have full control and that it was a process. But especially with your correction, he did have full control for a vast majority of his tenure.
wiki can be merciless: William Stephen Belichick (/ˈbɛlɪtʃɪk, ˈbɛlɪtʃɛk/; born April 16, 1952) is a former American football coach.
This didn’t have roster control in the first few years stuff flies in the face of a lot of reporting done at the time, including Holley’s first book among them, Patriot Reign. Always thought Pioli did a ton of the leg work, was highly trusted, but ultimately BB had final say on roster decisions.
Plus, BB had ample knowledge of the Carroll-Grier dysfunction. Perhaps it was a matter of BB with final say on day 1, but actually got more say over who staffed the personnel side over time?
how would BB have had “ample knowledge” of that dysfunction? I guess Kraft could have told him, but he wasn’t with the organization when that stuff played out and I don’t think he’s especially close/connected to either Grier or Caroll
Not a secret to anyone in the NFL and add in Parcells' experience in Foxborough too.
Going entirely from memory, no Google, but...I think I remember him (when he was a current or recent All-Pro) and Tony Franklin drinking a bunch at training camp/in your state, and then Camarillo getting into a "heated discussion" with Andre Tippett, who was dining in the same establishment. It was never reported as such, but there were hints that an N-word might have been used. Leading to Tippett (who might have had a black belt - again, memory) breaking Camarillo's nose. And the Pats cutting him. In what was just another day at training camp for the Sullivan Pats.
I don’t know if this story is true or not but I can’t think of many more dangerous things in the world than to call peak Andre Tippett that word.
That may be true about Chaff, but how are we arguing that somehow BB didn't mishandle the Mac situation last year and this year? Those are kind of undeniable facts. Add to that the fact that what YOU say about Mac is also pretty hard to counter, and it was a recipe for disaster.
Meh, the situation was less than ideal for Mac, but the idea that BB totally ruined him is just silly, plenty of QBs succeed or thrive in bad situations, in neither year was the situation uniquely bad, Mac's mental toughness and ability to deal with pressure and adversity were unusually bad.
Yeah he’s about the last guy in the world I’d want to upset. Huge, world class athlete. Multiple degree black belt.
I think I remember a sack one time where the QB was trying to fall out of the way, and Tippett basically did a mid-air flip, touching the QB down with his back.
I might be imagining that. I was in awe of Tippett when he played for the Pats.
It may be the power of suggestion, but I think I remember that too. Tippet was a freak of nature in that era, and remains one of my favorite Patriots of all time. I can only imagine the intoxication involved that affected the judgement of a punter enough to start shit with the man.
I was 18 during their '85 run, and man, was it magical. Surreal even. Even with a stellar regular season, no one dared even imagine a Super Bowl appearance. After beating Cincinatti at home to clinch a playoff berth and an 11-5 mark, the fans ripped down the goalposts, and several were electrocuted while marching them down the street. At that point, the Pats hadn't won a playoff game since 1963, four years before I was born. When they were in the AFL.
Then came the road warriors. Off to the Meadowlands they went, walking out with a 26-14 triumph. Next up the Raiders, a 27-20 win so improbable that almost 40 years later I am still gobsmacked. Speaking of smacked, the only time I had any respect for Pat Sullivan was watching him trash the Raiders while bleeding from the gash Matt Millen put on his forehead with his helmet. Mosi Tatupu was a beast that day, as I'm sure @doldmoose34 would attest. Still a top 10 game in Pats history for me. I started to believe New Orleans was in reach.
Next up, the Fish. I will never forget Tippet at the rally they held before heading south promising that they were going down there to "rip their faces off". And rip them off they did. Miami turned the ball over six times, four fumbles and two Marino picks. Tony Eason threw the ball just twelve times, going 10-12 for 71 yards. The ground game was insane, picking up 255 yards on 59 attempts. They just ground the dolphins into the dust. The Fish were squished.
We all know what happened next, but it is still by far the least painful Super Bowl loss I've experienced. What. A. Run.
This all started off thinking about Tippet, but it also reminds me just how unbelievable it is that this once joke of a franchise, whose fans were so excited to even get to the dance that goalposts ended up as an electrical conduit, has now given to us all that it has. It also reminds me that success is fragile and vulnerable. In '85, it was 22 years since a playoff win. After '85. it was over a decade until the next playoff win. I've learned to take nothing for granted.
The Belichick/Brady era is by far the most impressive display of consistent excellence that I've ever witnessed, and my gratitude is almost immeasurable. Yesterday hit me in a way that I didn't expect and that transcended football.
That said, I'll always treasure that first taste of glory, on par with the years they won the Lombardi except for the first.
I mean, the Bears weren't losing that year. I'll also note, they've won nothing since.
As I said, I've learned to take nothing for granted.
https://www.patriots.com/news/the-1985-patriots-historic-journey-to-the-franchise-s-first-ever-super-bo-128196
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2015/10/28/squish-the-fish-1985-patriots-run-one-of-the-greatest-in-nfl-history/
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I remember that and it didn’t surprise me that Camarillo was acting like an idiot.
I grew up in Foxboro and the local Jaycees used to hold a fundraiser pancake breakfast where various Pats would be the waiter for each table. One year we had Stephen “Brickhouse” Moore, who was quiet but very nice.
Camarillo was there and acted like a douche. Was a dick to kids who asked for autographs, made snide comments about people, etc.
Getting his ass kicked by Tippett was glorious.