Oh, it can get so much worse did you see the post above with SF having 3 winning seasons in 16 years?
Strap in, if you think this is the worst it can get.
End of an Era: Bill Belichick and Patriots to part ways
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Strap in, if you think this is the worst it can get.
You have to wonder what happened here.
Brady was a great QB, no doubt the GOAT, but those Tuesday meetings where he and Bill, one of greatest defensive minds of all time would go over that weeks oppenent and Bill gave him all sorts of insight as to how to attack their defense.
In year two of Mac Jones, it was reported he went outside the organization for help because he was frustrated with the offense led by Patricia and Judge, two coaches that were not great offensive minds.
This year Bill seemed "cold" towards Jones, I'd hate to think he did not advise him like he did with Brady as he took a huge step backwards, several as a matter of fact.
I'll always be grateful towards Bill and the NINE trips to the Super Bowl and SIX wins on his watch, the greatest coach in my lifetime.
Kraft and Fredo had better get this choice right, both GM and coach, the future of the organization depends on getting both right.
If Bill goes to another organization and wins another Super Bowl, the greatest QB and coach in the game will have gone on to success elsewhere.
That's going to leave a mark.
Good luck Bob.
That's not worse. That's more of the same. They have 0 playoff wins in 5 seasons.
They were 4-13 this year. It is not guaranteed to get better of course but it can't get much worse. It can only stay bad, at worst.
Like everyone else here, I hope the turnaround is quick and the Pats are once again in the conversation for top team in the AFC (and NFL overall). But if people think it can't get worse, holy smokes it can get a lot, lot, lot worse. We all hope it doesn't. But it could.
I don't think it's particularly close. Fields is a good QB, who can do things on the field that help his team. Is he in upper echelon? No, but he's solid.
Mac and Zap are legitimately bad.
How can it be worse than the fewest points in the NFL?
32 out of 32. You can't go lower than last.
Are you assuming the D maintains its excellence? It very well might, but they can get worse by getting worse on that side of the ball, can't they?
You could have the worst offense *and* the worst defense. You could win 1 game instead of 4. You could get blown out in 75% of your games instead of most of them being competitive (not pretty but competitive). You could have many years of catastrophe instead of one.
It could get a lot worse.
Man they weren't great, but you're describing a 5 year stretch in which the team was essentially .500 (41-42 in the regular season). It can get SO much worse.
They have cap money, the 3rd pick in the draft (and the 2nd pick in the 2nd round) and somewhat decent core on the defense with Gonzalez returning. Things might actually get better!
How much worse than 4-13 can they get?
I guess they could go 0-17. But I doubt that. Even Carolina won 2 games this year. Scored more points than the Pats, too, and that team was a running joke in 2023.
For all the talk of Bill's bad drafts, and not trusting him to draft well going forward, it's relevant to bring up the fact that 2024 would've been the best draft capital he's ever had with the Patriots. A top 3 lottery pick, with near the top of every round picks to follow that. For the majority of his tenure, he's been trying to extract maximum value out of low, and occasionally middle of the round picks(when he wasn't being absurdly stripped of 1st round picks). And often doing a damn good job of it. But years of that catches up, and a bottoming out, especially when Mac turned out to be a bust, was inevitable. And in the calm light of day, probably even necessary. It seems short-sighted for fans, and the Krafts, to not want to see what he could have done with that capital.
As a Jets fan, I would say that sure, it can't really get much worse on an individual season basis, but when it's year in and year out, it's worse in the sense that every year you go into it already somewhat resigned and assuming you won't really be paying attention. You have losing seasons and mess them up at the end by winning pointless games, you trade up to draft quarterbacks and halfway through their first season you already know the next 2 are ruined because he's not good enough and it will take years to fully unfold and everyone to get fired.
You see good players drafted and become embittered and want out within 18 months. It happens with every single one of them. You see them leave and win Super Bowls with your least favorite team, like the best Jets defensive player ever (and probably most skilled player ever depending how you feel about Namath), Revis.
You never see good quarterback play. This is why Aaron Rodgers was exciting to Jets fans this year - not because most folks really thought they were Super Bowl contenders, but because we would get to watch a very good quarterback. We haven't had one essentially ever, and have gone through 4 separate three-year QB cycles since our last somewhat competent one in Pennington. Sanchez-Geno-Darnold-Wilson.
The Jets are an outlier, so I certainly don't expect the Patriots to follow their pattern, even just from a statistical probability perspective. That's just how it can get worse, basically. I know Patriots fans that followed the team prior to the mid 90s have felt that same way.
A lot. You seem hung up on the record. It's important, but doesn't tell you everything.
I enjoyed a bunch of games this year. They were bad but not the absolute dregs when you look at more than just the offense. And serious and season ending injuries on both sides of the ball didn't help.
If you can't at least acknowledge the possibilty that there's still a lot of hill they could slide down, I don't know what else I can tell you.
Bruh my college years were how much worse they can get. 1989-1993.
5-11
1-15
6-10
2-14.
The last few years have been disappointing but they are nowhere near the nadir of the franchise.
Straw man? More like pure snark.
I don't know how old you are, but believe me, it can get A LOT worse than the last few years.
That said, the time may very well be right. I'm just not as sanguine as many seem to be about the speed of any return to relevance.
Kraft and/or BB basically chose who got this scoop. No one else was well placed enough to serve as a definitive source.
Says something about the rise of national media vs. local, at least when it comes to NFL coverage. Thirty years ago, there’s no way this story breaks through someone like Dr. Z. at Sports Illustrated rather than through someone at the Globe or Herald (most likely, Will McDonough). But I don’t think that’s a reflection of the quality of anyone’s work.
Edit: Obviously, Reiss is local, but he works at ESPN. BB and Kraft wanted to give the story to ESPN. No one else had a chance.
Second edit: ESPN is wall-to-wall Saban right now. Guess they’re letting that cycle finish before starting a new one with the press conference at noon.
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This forum seems to think the Krafts are the Sullivans now I guess. There will be talented people running the football organization. That doesn't mean there's a Super Bowl coming soon but let's give the doom & gloom crap a rest.
Vrabel lost in 2021. McDaniels is one though. One of the others is a connection. The other was the only guy aside from McDaniels to go 3-0.
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I spend a lot of time in Cleveland. Browns fans are passionate. Since BB left Cleveland, the Browns have had 12 head coaches, including 2 interims.
And of those 12, the only two with winning records are Stefanski(26-24) and interim Gregg Williams(5-3)
It can get a lot worse.
And of those 12, the only two with winning records are Stefanski(26-24) and interim Gregg Williams(5-3)
It can get a lot worse.
Curran called this first, so it doesn’t exactly undermine that to have one of the only a few people privy to the discussions leak the news of the presser to Schefter. Curran can still say ‘I had this first, congrats on knowing the date/time of the presser.’
Of course it can get worse, but that is not a reason NOT to make a change if it is time for a change.
The case for BB relies heavily on his track record being more important than his age and recent performance. I think I disagree but the case can be made for sure. But if the Krafts have reached the conclusion that it is time to move on “it could get worse” is not a good reason not to pull the trigger.
The case for BB relies heavily on his track record being more important than his age and recent performance. I think I disagree but the case can be made for sure. But if the Krafts have reached the conclusion that it is time to move on “it could get worse” is not a good reason not to pull the trigger.
Come on, 13-4, and bang through the playoffs. Easy beans!
Seriously, though, I'm just not sure how much it means to BB. He could want it so bad he can taste it, or like me see it as icing on a cake that doesn't need any more. Edit: Or, he thought he'd be a lot closer by now, but along came Mac....
You're allowed to say fuck here. When you say fu** everyone knows what you're saying anyway. So, you know, fuck it. Just say it. It's that kind of day.
Well, the thing I'm hung up on is what caused the Pats to move on from Belichick. So I guess I agree with Kraft.
When the Pats were losing to the Colts, Chargers, Commanders, and Raiders, and barely scoring any points, I can't say it was awesome. I won't even include Game 17 because that loss was a great loss. But it was ugly.
I am very much not saying it is guaranteed to get better. But I personally think it will, people are acting like Belichick is the only person in the world who can get good results in NE. Judging by a lot of teams in the NFL, this is not accurate. I have faith, they have a lot of cap, and the 3rd pick. Sometimes you need a new voice.
This has happened to every legendary coach in the history of the NFL. It was always going to happen to Bill. It happened. We're onto 2024.
Talk about a huge offseason.
1. Find a GM
2. Find a Head Coach
3. Find a Franchise QB
4. Find an Offense
1. Find a GM
2. Find a Head Coach
3. Find a Franchise QB
4. Find an Offense
I have no problem with any of that, but you still won't tell us why 2024 and beyond might not be worse.
I wonder about that as well. He's already left Shula in the dust on any thinking persons list of all time great coaches. I don't think a longevity/counting stat record changes that at all. Hell, I don't even think Shula is number two. I'd put Walsh, Gibbs, and Lombardi ahead of him. Maybe Paul Brown as well.Come on, 13-4, and bang through the playoffs. Easy beans!
Seriously, though, I'm just not sure how much it means to BB. He could want it so bad he can taste it, or like me see it as icing on a cake that doesn't need any more. Edit: Or, he thought he'd be a lot closer by now, but along came Mac....
I might actually put that at the top, or at least closer to it.
Sure, it could get worse. If you have Jimmy Haslam (He had a good year this year, I am sure he will fuck it up) as your owner, or Tepper, or Snyder, or Woodie Johnson, it can stay terrible. The Krafts have been great owners, they are not perfect but I have faith that they will make good decisions going forward. Their track record is they make good hires.
Thank you. In BB's first year, here things actually did get worse. Quite a bit worse, in fact, than the previous few years. I think, I hope, that everyone understands that there's nobody available with anything close to his resume, which means there is more than a little risk to this move.
There's just not a lot to compare this to, historically. I'd like to think it works out like it did in Dallas when they showed Landry the door for Johnson, but I don't think there's a GM in 2024 out there willing to give the Pats a truckload of picks for Rhamondre Stevenson to jumpstart things here.