Kill him, do us all a favor and get rid of the yinzer. I live in Steeler country and they haven't shut up about Spygate for 8 years now.NavaHo said:
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Myt1 and others who have joined in, that you have concluded my points are incorrect does not convince me. That said, I will indeed try not to re-raise the points because I don't want to scratch the black board.
Yeah, true enough.
But, then again, saying what probably coulda gone without saying is kind of a SoSH hallmark....
The season can't come soon enough, especially with the Boston Red Sox being as joyful as they are to behold.
But, then again, saying what probably coulda gone without saying is kind of a SoSH hallmark....
The season can't come soon enough, especially with the Boston Red Sox being as joyful as they are to behold.
Two questions I have for those who are better versed than me:
1: How is what came out today about the NFL owners not wanting Goodell to settle not outright collusion? No shit other owners want the most successful player / franchise to be worse.
2. What is stopping Goodell from not making a decision til week 3 of the season? Brady can't play til the appeal is decided right? What if it's just not?
1: How is what came out today about the NFL owners not wanting Goodell to settle not outright collusion? No shit other owners want the most successful player / franchise to be worse.
2. What is stopping Goodell from not making a decision til week 3 of the season? Brady can't play til the appeal is decided right? What if it's just not?
1. Collusion is when teams agree not to bid over X or not to negotiate until a certain time or otherwise try to work together to impact players. At least, that's the typical application. Making Goodell aware of their views seems to me to be a cousin of collusion rather than collusion itself.Seels said:
2. Nothing, technically. There is nothing in the rules of the road that requires any time-table. That said, if Goodell delayed until the regular season started, I would assume that the NFLPA would attempt to obtaub, and likely succeed at obtaining, an injunction allowing Brady to play in the meantime. That may be incorrect but it seems like something that could happen in that a Court would not want to reward such gamesmanship from Goodell. That said, I think Goodell would not want to appear to be so craven and devious by waiting so long. Letting it drag out a few extra weeks over the summer is one thing. Trying to box Tom out of games by delaying the ruling into the season seems to be a bridge too far for even the Sheriff.
The chatter picks up every time the commissioner's office is about to make a decision stupider than the last stupid decision. What they're doing right now, in keeping with the Goodell administration's proud tradition of doing everything possible to screw up the best game that there is over the last 9 years, is floating trial balloons and focus grouping to figure out how they're going to be perceived when the punishment that was already conceived and decided in January is delivered.
The settlement talk is likely nothing more than further character assassination of the player(why would there be settlement talks if he's not guilty as he's proclaimed caller?) by the league office. Great sweatshop they're running there.
The settlement talk is likely nothing more than further character assassination of the player(why would there be settlement talks if he's not guilty as he's proclaimed caller?) by the league office. Great sweatshop they're running there.
Assuming of course he holds that promise. Of course, we've seen months of blackboard scratching so even a reduction would be merciful.DrewDawg said:
Also, I'm fairly certain these other influential owners were not present for the appeal hearing.lexrageorge said:
Last Friday before camps open in earnest. Perfect news dump scenario. Today's the day. (Ducks).
I know you're kidding, but we need to add the news dump nonsense to the trash heap that already includes "Kraft has pull with the other owners!" and "the NFL is terrified about what might come out in discovery!"cornwalls@6 said:
No you didn't. Rule 408 is published in many places. I'm still trying to figure out what sort of permissible purpose an offer by Goodell or the NFL (or by Brady and his people) would be fulfilled. I don't see one. And I read that piece, it seemed to me more likely that such an offer would easily fall on the not-admissible side.
Thread title suggestion: "Waiting for Goodolt"
cornwalls@6 said:
I know you're half joking, but last year the NFL announced the Ray Rice punishment on like the 2nd day of camp, and it was a total shitshow. I would think they would want to avoid this but then again, it is the NFL. So maybe they DO want to announce it on the 2nd or 3rd day of camp. Who the fuck knows.
MarcSullivaFan said:
A Friday news dump is a real thing.
http://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/friday-news-dump/
It would depend on the specifics of the offer, and how and when it was conveyed, and the specifics of Brady's case in chief. I think a possible use would be evidence of Goodell's bias or any sort of delaying creating harm as we now approach training camp and the likelihood of irreparable harm analysis becomes more urgent.joe dokes said:
If, as MSF has said, the secret backdoor settlement offer scenario that was proposed would be considered an independent unfair labor practices violation, that would be an issue as well.
Basically, I don't think you'd have to be particularly adept at thinking around corners to get it in somehow, with some very real possibility of success and anyone who would be advising Goodell would be committing malpractice by giving him the shorthand illusion instead of describing the actual state of the law.
DrewDawg said:
Absolutely true, but I think C6 is suggesting that Goodell doesn't believe this story needs to be buried.
Edit: wrong guy!
As noted by others, was really just poking some light-hearted fun at the tropes we keep chewing on over and over here. I know news dumps have been a tactic used to bury negative stories in the past. Seems an antiquated notion in 500 chanel/social media/smart phone world to me, but who knows? I would have never imagined SLIGHTLY deflated footballs turning into a 6 month+ shit storm, so nothing the feckless idiots who run this league do would surprise me at this point.DrewDawg said:
Elcab suggested that if Goodell upholds the suspension and then gets overturned by District Court Judge, that it might lead to a sea change in opinion among media members.
I remain dubious that many mediots will see the light but, on the other hand, maybe he's onto something and it's already starting on some level.
There's nothing revolutionary here but it's still refreshing to read a voice from Philly with these sentiments:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150721_Goodell_got_another_one_wrong_on_Brady_suspension.html
Apologies if it has already been linked; I don't recall having seen it.
I remain dubious that many mediots will see the light but, on the other hand, maybe he's onto something and it's already starting on some level.
There's nothing revolutionary here but it's still refreshing to read a voice from Philly with these sentiments:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150721_Goodell_got_another_one_wrong_on_Brady_suspension.html
Apologies if it has already been linked; I don't recall having seen it.
https://twitter.com/edwerderespn/status/624561466595782656
@Edwerderespn: Asked likelihood of Tom Brady decision today. Told chances same as me breaking 80 from back tees at @Winged Foot. Translation: Zero chance
Poor @winged
@Edwerderespn: Asked likelihood of Tom Brady decision today. Told chances same as me breaking 80 from back tees at @Winged Foot. Translation: Zero chance
Poor @winged
This guy seems to be the Shaughnessy of Philly but this quote about eagles fans is pretty good.TheoShmeo said:
Agreed.tims4wins said:
Short of Sally Jenkins, that's as good a takedown of this whole farce as I've seen. And media members who are broadcast partners w/the NFL have basically punted (ha) on calling this shitshow out for what it is. So we're left to people from Yahoo who have the freedom to call it as it is.
LINK: http://sports.yahoo....-063247603.html
Cleary if the offer was illegal when made, that something.
But I don't see, even creatively, how, absent illegality it shows bias or anything else that makes it admissible
I disagree about real chance of success, but so what.
The "actual state of the law" remains that such offers usually don't come in. But yes, it would be malpractice to say "never."
My insistence on this comes from what seems to underpin a lot of posts -- that settlement is somehow unusual and suspicious.
It was an intentional play on that, but I liked the Waltzing -leisurely dancing around aspect that this story has evolved into.joe dokes said:
Dan Wetzel has been a voice of reason for a while now.
This article from May was posted up thread but as a reminder:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-the-nfl-let-deflate-gate-get-so-out-of-control-and-ridiculous-200459796.html
This article from May was posted up thread but as a reminder:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-the-nfl-let-deflate-gate-get-so-out-of-control-and-ridiculous-200459796.html
In a vacuum, I certainly don't think that and didn't intend to give that impression. There were a lot of other trappings that went on with the initial discussion, though.joe dokes said:
Cleary if the offer was illegal when made, that something.
But I don't see, even creatively, how, absent illegality it shows bias or anything else that makes it admissible
I disagree about real chance of success, but so what.
The "actual state of the law" remains that such offers usually don't come in. But yes, it would be malpractice to say "never."
My insistence on this comes from what seems to underpin a lot of posts -- that settlement is somehow unusual and suspicious.
troparra said:
Eh, I think we can all agree that there were some weird circumstances regarding the AFCCG.
In a vacuum, I certainly don't think that and didn't intend to give that impression. There were a lot of other trappings that went on with the initial discussion, though.
If there was this much pro bono legal work going on outside as there has been in this thread, the world would be a better place.
I don't agree with Wetzel on that part but I think a lot of folks believe -- based largely on Brady's refusal to turn over the phone records after his counsel was given the chance to cleanse the unrelated stuff -- that Brady did something wrong and STILL think that whatever he did wasn't proved sufficiently to give him such an out of whack penalty.troparra said:
My point is that even those who start from a premise that is not sympathetic to NE should also view Goodell as handling this thing completely as backwards in every respect. I can disagree with Wetzel regarding his Brady suspicions and still applaud that he understands and is willing to say that Goodell is a total clown.
I know the exponent report has been beaten up ad naseum but has anyone actually assumed the science was accurate and what the "competitive advantage" is if their science is correct? If I recall correctly we are talking about on average a .2 PSI discrepancy between what the Ideal Gas Law suggested the Pats balls should have been vs the Exponent calculations.
First off I would like to see how long it takes to deflate a football .2 PSI and if you can consistently do this.
Second I would love to see how much of an impact a .2 PSI deflation makes on the football itself. Compression testing and some sort of grip test would be great.
Third I would like to compare the difference of .2 PSI vs. everything else that is allowed to be done to a football in the "prepping" process. Take for instance Eli Manning's footballs, who I believe has one of the more rigorous prepping routines, and compare the overall tactile properties of his balls vs. a normal football deflated .2 PSI less.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the difference between Eli and a out of the box slightly deflated football is massive in favor of a prepped ball. Given that there is zero enforcement on prepped balls this seems ridiculous.
Essentially Brady was a passenger in a car pulled over for speeding. On one radar gun the car was going 66 in a 65 and the other gun reading they were going 67 in a 65. Neither gun had been calibrated in months and cars were blowing by them at 70+. The owner of the car was given 20yrs + massive fines and Brady was given 5yrs despite being on record telling the driver to drive 65.
First off I would like to see how long it takes to deflate a football .2 PSI and if you can consistently do this.
Second I would love to see how much of an impact a .2 PSI deflation makes on the football itself. Compression testing and some sort of grip test would be great.
Third I would like to compare the difference of .2 PSI vs. everything else that is allowed to be done to a football in the "prepping" process. Take for instance Eli Manning's footballs, who I believe has one of the more rigorous prepping routines, and compare the overall tactile properties of his balls vs. a normal football deflated .2 PSI less.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the difference between Eli and a out of the box slightly deflated football is massive in favor of a prepped ball. Given that there is zero enforcement on prepped balls this seems ridiculous.
Essentially Brady was a passenger in a car pulled over for speeding. On one radar gun the car was going 66 in a 65 and the other gun reading they were going 67 in a 65. Neither gun had been calibrated in months and cars were blowing by them at 70+. The owner of the car was given 20yrs + massive fines and Brady was given 5yrs despite being on record telling the driver to drive 65.
I forget my vote. I believe it had the suspension sticking at 4 games, but if not, I'd switch it to that column now.
I expect an in-your-face affirmance next Monday with all the bells and whistles. A statement over RGs signature wrapping the League in the American flag and offering a full throated defense of fair competition. In the spirit of same, and to preserve the virgin season, it will call on TB to lay down his arms, get with the program and take his medicine for the benefit of all, Tom included.
If they had the balls to subject RG to reporters' questions, I think they would have a press conference over this, but they don't so they won't. Do not, however, rule out an extensive interview on NFLN and with a few of ESPNs garden gnomes, perhaps beginning with Mike & Mike at 9:00.
The news dump trope will join Bob-Kraft-the-influential-owner on the trophy rack of absurdities.
Hope I'm wrong about all this, but I'm getting the popcorn ready.
I expect an in-your-face affirmance next Monday with all the bells and whistles. A statement over RGs signature wrapping the League in the American flag and offering a full throated defense of fair competition. In the spirit of same, and to preserve the virgin season, it will call on TB to lay down his arms, get with the program and take his medicine for the benefit of all, Tom included.
If they had the balls to subject RG to reporters' questions, I think they would have a press conference over this, but they don't so they won't. Do not, however, rule out an extensive interview on NFLN and with a few of ESPNs garden gnomes, perhaps beginning with Mike & Mike at 9:00.
The news dump trope will join Bob-Kraft-the-influential-owner on the trophy rack of absurdities.
Hope I'm wrong about all this, but I'm getting the popcorn ready.
If this happens, I really hope Bob Kraft has the intelligence to keep his mouth shut beyond comments about "letting the process run its course." Frankly, I hope he keeps his mouth shut regardless of the decision, as I think he's a very unsympathetic figure and he comes off as a bit of an ass. Comments beyond "process" and standing behind TB will only make things more of a headache.dcmissle said:
MarcSullivaFan said:
Sorry for the snark. I did actually read the lengthy discussion, but I think I just got lost somewhere between the beginning of that convo and:
MarcSullivaFan said:
Another data point
Chiefs CB Sean Smith docked 3 games
Smith received 2 years probation and a 3-game suspension after he pleaded guilty last month to a DUI charge, a source tells ESPN's Adam Schefter. Smith signed with Kansas City in 2013 and has started all but 1 game in his 2 years with the team.
3 games for DUI, 4 games for DFG!
Chiefs CB Sean Smith docked 3 games
Smith received 2 years probation and a 3-game suspension after he pleaded guilty last month to a DUI charge, a source tells ESPN's Adam Schefter. Smith signed with Kansas City in 2013 and has started all but 1 game in his 2 years with the team.
3 games for DUI, 4 games for DFG!
The run of the mill off field behavioral suspensions don't resonate with me as particularly useful comps. Maybe I'm just inured to that stuff at this point, and I do think that there is a relevant difference between those and on the field issues.tims4wins said:
4 games for an initial PED violation (I think that's what it is) seems to be more directly, but not perfectly, comparable.
Put differently, if Brady actually had ordered the code red, I don't think four games would be particularly draconian punishment.
This is the organization that announced a handful of PED suspensions on the afternoon of July 3rd. They'll happily try to bury stuff they don't want to talk about. Fortunately, Rog is available to the media at any time.cornwalls@6 said:
If there is no deal, I think you will be right and will be very surprised by anything other than a strident affirmation of the penalty.dcmissle said:
But while I don't expect a last minute deal, I would not be surprised by one either. And I'd pay a lot of American dollars to watch the internal Brady camp and Brady/NFLPA discussions if Goodell offered them a reduction down to one game in exchange for global peace.
You forgot the part about the other passenger who was whistling the theme to "Speed Racer."j44thor said:
No one suggested that settlement talks in general are somehow unusual or suspicious. What people have suggested is that based on what we know about this case, the elements for a settlement are simply not there. And that using a back channel to try and entice Brady to accept a limited suspension is an unwise path that Goodell would not use.joe dokes said:Cleary if the offer was illegal when made, that something.
But I don't see, even creatively, how, absent illegality it shows bias or anything else that makes it admissible
I disagree about real chance of success, but so what.
The "actual state of the law" remains that such offers usually don't come in. But yes, it would be malpractice to say "never."
My insistence on this comes from what seems to underpin a lot of posts -- that settlement is somehow unusual and suspicious.
The reason there is little chance of a settlement in this case is that it's been pretty clear for some time that Brady is a pawn in a much larger battle. Once Goodell allowed the fiasco to turn into a public spectacle and spent $5 million on Ted Wells, he had to hold someone accountable. And the moment Brady refused to turn over his phone, he became the target.
Once Brady was suspended, the issue of his actual innocence or guilt was tossed aside and this became a battle about the commissioner's power. And in that scenario, the union is strongly incentivized to hold firm against what is seen as the commissioner's propensity to be inconsistent to the point of incoherence when wielding his disciplinary authority.
None of this means that Brady doesn't have free will to make his own choice. But if we assume that he is innocent and take into account who he is, what he has already accomplished in his career, how much time he has left and the rather high probability that he'll be able to get an injuction allowing him to play while he fights on, there's really no incentive for him to settle unless that settlement includes the suspension being vacated.
I generally agree that there will be no settlement and that Brady will not settle at anything less than a total elimination of the 4 game suspension.Average Reds said:
But I disagree that there is no incentive to settle.
Settling now, if he is offered one game:
- Brings immediate certainty to a cloudy picture;
- Allows him not to deal with lawyers and union officials;
- Allows him to focus 100% of his non-family/discretionary time on football...not that I think he is spending a lot of time on this, but it's more than zero;
- Eliminates any risk that the net result of the Court process is a penalty more than one game;
- Gives him the peace of mind associated with ending this; and
- Enables him to know that, for the most part, he will not have to deal with media requests or questions related to this issue, presumably after one last flurry. At the very least, it wont be hanging over every other conversation, which it will be until it's resolved.
I am well aware of the reasons why Brady should not settle, even at one game. My point is that there are indeed reasons to cut a deal even without total victory on the games. Not that I think Tom Brady will be persuaded by those reasons.
I agree with the periodic sentiment expressed here that very few of the substantial number of leaks related to this saga have had any semblance to what ultimately transpired and also that each time we think we know how something is going to go, it goes worse for Brady/the Patriots, beyond reason. That said, I believe this is 100% a P.R. war, with Goodell's only interest being how he will be perceived and how he can leverage this situation to strengthen his position and his job security. So much discussion on this board looks at the legal aspects of this, but that's not the field where this is being played, especially if you're to buy into the concept, as I do, that Goodell cares not at all about losing in court because he doesn't take a beating for that in the media and among fans.
Brady's and the NFLPA's trump card if Brady did nothing wrong is taking his story to the media in a huge way. I think that is why Goodell is taking so long; they're conceiving a media strategy on this and they're trying to consider all available tactics of Brady and the NFLPA and how to counter them to Goodell's advantage. Letting this extend to after training camp opens limits Brady's ability to be available to the media because his time otherwise will be occupied.
Definitely there is a subtle, but definitive change in tone of the media coverage at this point, with many more now questioning Goodell's handling of the situation. If all he cares about is his strength and positioning and he knows this is going to court and he risks nothing by losing in court, why would he do anything other than leave it at 4 games?
Brady's and the NFLPA's trump card if Brady did nothing wrong is taking his story to the media in a huge way. I think that is why Goodell is taking so long; they're conceiving a media strategy on this and they're trying to consider all available tactics of Brady and the NFLPA and how to counter them to Goodell's advantage. Letting this extend to after training camp opens limits Brady's ability to be available to the media because his time otherwise will be occupied.
Definitely there is a subtle, but definitive change in tone of the media coverage at this point, with many more now questioning Goodell's handling of the situation. If all he cares about is his strength and positioning and he knows this is going to court and he risks nothing by losing in court, why would he do anything other than leave it at 4 games?
It's even worse than that; there's nothing wrong with having a ball that is below the psi limit so long as it was over at pre-game measurement and you didn't tamper with it. So, in your example above, it would have to be something like "the driver went into a one-mile long tunnel at a time the cop thinks is 'about 1pm, give or take' and exited the tunnel (by one clock) at 1:00.9 pm and by a second at 1:00.8 pm. The speed limit in the tunnel is 60 mph. The cop writing the ticket says "I don't know that you sped, or when it began, but I know it's after 1:01 now so I'll assume those things and write you the ticket"