#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[joe dokes]

If the Patriots accept any settlement that includes some level of punishment I will wholeheartedly change my current belief that they are 100% innocent.

The basic argument from the Patriots is that they did nothing wrong and the difference in PSI can be explained by the Ideal Gas Law. If that's 100% true and is what they fully believe as an organization, why accept any punishment if you're absolutely certain you did nothing wrong?

That's like getting arrested for robbery, swearing you had nothing to do with the robbery, but accepting a plea bargain for a shortened sentence. You know you had nothing to do with it and thus you're 99.9% certain there's zero conclusive evidence linking you to the robbery. Why accept any deal? You KNOW you're clean so you KNOW there's no concrete proof indicating otherwise. Fight the accusation and let a court prove your innocence.

 
People settle cases and plead guilty for all sorts of reasons. Why does the robbery suspect accept a deal?  Because he has a family at home, and he can do 3 months with a year probation guaranteed, or take his chances that a group of strangers will see the evidence the same way he does.  Or maybe the plea ends his legal fees at "merely shitty" whereas a trial would be "crippling."  In criminal cases, the person pleading guilty has to admit his guilt; if that's a problem he wont do it. (lets not get into "no contest" pleas).
 
The bottom line, again, is that intelligent people settle cases *all the time* based on things other than -- and certainly in addition to -- what appear to be the "merits of the case."

 

[Ed Hillel]

Light is finally making the argument so many of us have been waiting for. They're grilling him on the texts, and trying to get him to say they may have deflated the footballs, and he's saying unequivocably that the science suggests the footballs were not delfated so the texts don't matter, particularly since they are without context anyway.

 

[tim mccarver]

I just got an alert on my phone that Kraft is speaking at 1 pm.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Kraft will speak from the owners meeting in an hour. To me, that suggests he's accepted something.
 
 
Edit: I guess in one way the recent stuff put out by King and Schefter may indicate the Commish does want to pull the punishment back some.

 

[pappymojo]

Which is why Kraft needs to make it clear to the other owners that this could happen to each and every one of them too. Won't happen, of course, but if they had the ability to see the forest for the trees we wouldn't be in this mess.

 
I think that Kraft can also make the case that the NFL spent $5 million dollars on this investigation when the justification was based on false information and that specific NFL employees knew the data was false but did not speak up in advance to correct the error.  They were either incompetent or dishonest.  Either way it cost $5 million dollars and the one thing in the Wells Report that we can agree on is that the readings in the report do not match those that were reported in the January letter from the league. 

 

[Average Reds]

 
This competes with "OMG Brady and Jastremski talked three times after the investigate started, so they must be guilty!!" as the absolute dumbest thing dumbest thing associated with this mess.

 
You could pick 10 random minutes from Mike & Mike and hear things about this topic that would leave you dumbstruck with awe relative to the level of stupidity.
 

All good. Sorry for snapping back.

So I take it there have been athletes to sue for defamation. I'll have to investigate this search function I am hearing about

 
The issue is that it's incredibly difficult for any public figure to sue for defamation because you not only have to prove that the information was false, but that the person who leaked the information to a reporter knew it was false at the time the leak occurred. 
 
There are many additional levels of complexity here, but the long and short of it is that Brady. Kraft or anyone associated with the Pats (other than McNally and Jastremski, who may have a case as non-public figures) are probably out of luck in terms of filing a defamation action of any kind.
 
When things settle down, there could be an interesting discussion about McNally and JJ and their legal options.

 

[Stitch01]

If the Patriots accept any settlement that includes some level of punishment I will wholeheartedly change my current belief that they are 100% innocent.

The basic argument from the Patriots is that they did nothing wrong and the difference in PSI can be explained by the Ideal Gas Law. If that's 100% true and is what they fully believe as an organization, why accept any punishment if you're absolutely certain you did nothing wrong?

That's like getting arrested for robbery, swearing you had nothing to do with the robbery, but accepting a plea bargain for a shortened sentence. You know you had nothing to do with it and thus you're 99.9% certain there's zero conclusive evidence linking you to the robbery. Why accept any deal? You KNOW you're clean so you KNOW there's no concrete proof indicating otherwise. Fight the accusation and let a court prove your innocence.

Kraft has literally a billion dollars at stake with his franchise.  He's not at the arrested and waiting for trial stage, he's at the post conviction stage.  He doesnt necessarily have redress in the courts.  
 
Sure, the public is going to point at any deal and say "see, they did something wrong", but the public is going to say that anyways.  If Goodell says "I spoke with Brady, JJ, and McNally and now believe the Pats have fully cooperated. Preponderance of evidence still says blah blah blah integrity of the game meow chow. As a result, I am lifting Brady's suspension and taking a 2nd and 4th round pick instead of a 1st and 4th round pick".....this thing is over.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Interesting that the nugget about them testing balls in game leaked today and that a deal has seemingly been brokered.  I'm guessing that they'll defer the team punishment while the NFL gratifies its ego by doing a season long experiment to monitor in game PSI.  After the season most of the punishment will go away when Roger confirms the Ideal Gas Law does indeed exist.  
 
edit: I know that contradicts Schefter, so I'm probably way off base.

 

[Reverend]

Kraft has literally a billion dollars at stake with his franchise.  He's not at the arrested and waiting for trial stage, he's at the post conviction stage.  He doesnt necessarily have redress in the courts.  
 
Sure, the public is going to point at any deal and say "see, they did something wrong", but the public is going to say that anyways.  If Goodell says "I spoke with Brady, JJ, and McNally and now believe the Pats have fully cooperated. Preponderance of evidence still says blah blah blah integrity of the game meow chow. As a result, I am lifting Brady's suspension and taking a 2nd and 4th round pick instead of a 1st and 4th round pick".....this thing is over.

 
The public will say what the public will say. The reality, though, is that if the league cuts a deal, that's actually a tacit admission that they did something wrong.
 
I'm very surprised there are rumors of a deal before the appeal for this reason: Such a deal means they are aborting their own process.

 

[Shelterdog]

If the Patriots accept any settlement that includes some level of punishment I will wholeheartedly change my current belief that they are 100% innocent.

The basic argument from the Patriots is that they did nothing wrong and the difference in PSI can be explained by the Ideal Gas Law. If that's 100% true and is what they fully believe as an organization, why accept any punishment if you're absolutely certain you did nothing wrong?

That's like getting arrested for robbery, swearing you had nothing to do with the robbery, but accepting a plea bargain for a shortened sentence. You know you had nothing to do with it and thus you're 99.9% certain there's zero conclusive evidence linking you to the robbery. Why accept any deal? You KNOW you're clean so you KNOW there's no concrete proof indicating otherwise. Fight the accusation and let a court prove your innocence.

 
Lots of people in those circumstances take the deal, and they're generally not wrong to do so.

 

[DJnVa]

Kraft will speak from the owners meeting in an hour. To me, that suggests he's accepted something.

 

We're like 0 for 10,000 on guessing what things mean. I'd assume the league would announce any deal.

 

[Leather]

Sigh.
 
Get ready for a completely wrong explanation of Spygate.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

 
We're like 0 for 10,000 on guessing what things mean. I'd assume the league would announce any deal.

 
Yeah I'm wondering if there will be a press release between now and when Kraft speaks.

 

[PeaceSignMoose]

 
We're like 0 for 10,000 on guessing what things mean. I'd assume the league would announce any deal.

 
I swear to God that The Wells Report II will be focused on the Colts and we'll get our picks back and more.

 

[Padaiyappa]

 
We're like 0 for 10,000 on guessing what things mean. I'd assume the league would announce any deal.

Lets go to Sharks of Vegas! The will have the scoop..

 

[TheoShmeo]

Taking a deal is a decision that is based on weighing the costs and benefits of fighting.
 
People often settle rather than fight, and they do so when they think they are 100% right.
 
If the Pats and Brady settle, it will likely be based on many factors, including the economic costs and distraction of this thing, as well as the desire to move on and get it out of the constant public conversation.  And of course, the desire to see this thread locked.
 
But no one should conclude ANYTHING about the Pats and Brady's level of innocence.  It's a cost/benefit analysis, and little more. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

Kraft is going to step out in front of the building and 3 words into his speech the building is going to explode. He's going to try to act shocked, but a manaical laugh will slip out at some point.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Taking a deal is a decision that is based on weighing the costs and benefits of fighting.
 
People often settle rather than fight, and they do so when they think they are 100% right.
 
If the Pats and Brady settle, it will likely be based on many factors, including the economic costs and distraction of this thing, as well as the desire to move on and get it out of the constant public conversation.  And of course, the desire to see this thread locked.
 
But no one should conclude ANYTHING about the Pats and Brady's level of innocence.  It's a cost/benefit analysis, and little more. 

 
 
I'm going to be very disappointed if the Pats accept anything other than some BS obstruction crap that comes hand-in-hand with a total exoneration of the deflate charges. 

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Someone needs to transcribe the last hour with Matt Light on Zolak and Bertrand. That was really good stuff. 

 
The audio is now up on their page.  Matt Light parts 1 and 2.  I'll have a listen and put down some notes and snippets as I can.

 

[Bone Chips]

Matt Light is just killing it on 98.5. He even brought notes. This is a must-listen.
 
Getting into the PSI numbers now, and how the Colts' footballs lost more air than the Patriots' footballs.

I clearly tuned in too late. He just ended his spot by calling someone an "escape goat". And he wasn't joking.

 

[cshea]

If there was some sort of deal in place, I'd imagine it would be a joint announcement with Goodell.

 

[PseuFighter]

Admit I'm a little down on this whole thing if it results in any kind of a deal, if they're 100% convinced that they did nothing wrong. Any deal, at least to me, indicates that they did, in fact, do something wrong. I think a lot of Patriots fans are going to read it that way, and the media's going to have a field day with it. Was really hoping they'd be going to war.

 

[Van Everyman]

No, it's like getting convicted for robbery, exhausting your appeal and the Governor saying, "I'll cut your sentence a bit if you just let this go and quit casting our system of justice in a bad light".

Kraft has very little leverage and is a practical man.

I disagree. Kraft is well respected amongst his peers. He can threaten going nuclear. The owners meetings are happening right now. The report and the process have come under fairly heavy fire in the last week. His legal leverage is really only one part of it – he's going up against not a peer but an employee.

I actually think he has the most leverage he's going to have right at this moment because he can call the whole thing off if the terms are acceptable. My father who is an attorney thinks this is the moment to get the picks and suspension reduced (perhaps to just the 4th) and vacated respectively albeit with an admission about some "misunderstanding" on DoritoDink and McNally's parts that, combined with the reduced sanctions, accepts some role in the ordeal, without admitting full guilt. You could also clarify that after much discussion both sides have come to the understanding that the other acted in good faith: that the League simply wanted to get to the facts and that the Pats were trying to be cooperative but also respectful of their employees' privacy.

If Kraft and Goodell can agree to that, the mouthbreathers on both sides will remain unsatisfied but it will allow both parties to return to business as usual and accept some kind of victory that comports roughly with the known facts: that something seemed suspicious and the balls were more or less out of compliance but that Brady wasn't directly involved and there was a lot people on both sides didn't and perhaps still don't totally understand.

As a Pats fan who thinks it's more probable than not that the team did nothing wrong, I could accept that.

 

[nolasoxfan]

 
You could pick 10 random minutes from Mike & Mike and hear things about this topic that would leave you dumbstruck with awe relative to the level of stupidity.
 
 
The issue is that it's incredibly difficult for any public figure to sue for defamation because you not only have to prove that the information was false, but that the person who leaked the information to a reporter knew it was false at the time the leak occurred. 
 
There are many additional levels of complexity here, but the long and short of it is that Brady. Kraft or anyone associated with the Pats (other than McNally and Jastremski, who may have a case as non-public figures) are probably out of luck in terms of filing a defamation action of any kind.
 
When things settle down, there could be an interesting discussion about McNally and JJ and their legal options.

Indeed.  Would the lawyers here care to weigh in?  If innocent, what sort of legal recourse do these two have?

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
You could pick 10 random minutes from Mike & Mike and hear things about this topic that would leave you dumbstruck with awe relative to the level of stupidity.
 
 

 
Doesn't that describe any conversation that takes place on Mike & Mike?
 

Kraft has literally a billion dollars at stake with his franchise. 

 
Can you explain this?  Yes, he may have to pay $1m in fines and he may lose two draft picks that could make his franchise perform worse in the short term.  But if he tries to sell the team in five or ten years, are you suggesting that this incident will cause potential buyers to pay less than they otherwise would?

 

[loshjott]

If there was some sort of deal in place, I'd imagine it would be a joint announcement with Goodell.

 
Exactly.
 
From now on, I'm expecting the worst. At every juncture, from the initial Kravitz tweets, to the NFL leaks, to the content of the Wells Report, to the penalties, things have turned out worse than I expected.

 

[PseuFighter]

Indeed.  Would the lawyers here care to weigh in?  If innocent, what sort of legal recourse do these two have?

 
IANAL, but if they're at will employees, my guess is they have none. I imagine it comes down to their contracts?

 

[Stitch01]

 
Doesn't that describe any conversation that takes place on Mike & Mike?
 
 
Can you explain this?  Yes, he may have to pay $1m in fines and he may lose two draft picks that could make his franchise perform worse in the short term.  But if he tries to sell the team in five or ten years, are you suggesting that this incident will cause potential buyers to pay less than they otherwise would?

I'm saying going through a quixotic fight with the NFL in court in violation of its bylaws can come with consequences and it's a helluva lot easier for is to sit here and say "exoneration or die fighting" than is is for Kraft to actually make that decision.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I clearly tuned in too late. He just ended his spot by calling someone an "escape goat". And he wasn't joking.

 
I heard "scape goat," but he was talking about how he was on the NFLPA board when Vincent was interviewed to lead the NFLPA, and then the next thing you know he has a cushy NFL FO job. I'm not sure how that made anyone a scape goat, but he was pretty well-spoken the rest of the interview.

 

[Reverend]

I disagree. Kraft is well respected amongst his peers. He can threaten going nuclear. The owners meetings are happening right now. The report and the process have come under fairly heavy fire in the last week. His legal leverage is really only one part of it – he's going up against not a peer but an employee.

I actually think he has the most leverage he's going to have right at this moment because he can call the whole thing off if the terms are acceptable. My father who is an attorney thinks this is the moment to get the picks and suspension reduced (perhaps to just the 4th) and vacated respectively albeit with an admission about some "misunderstanding" on DoritoDink and McNally's parts that, combined with the reduced sanctions, accepts some role in the ordeal, without admitting full guilt. You could also clarify that after much discussion both sides have come to the understanding that the other acted in good faith: that the League simply wanted to get to the facts and that the Pats were trying to be cooperative but also respectful of their employees' privacy.

If Kraft and Goodell can agree to that, the mouthbreathers on both sides will remain unsatisfied but it will allow both parties to return to business as usual and accept some kind of victory that comports roughly with the known facts: that something seemed suspicious and the balls were more or less out of compliance but that Brady wasn't directly involved and there was a lot people on both sides didn't and perhaps still don't totally understand.

As a Pats fan who thinks it's more probable than not that the team did nothing wrong, I could accept that.

 
I'm having trouble imagining a deal that wouldn't: 1) Indicate that the NFL had somehow fucked up the investigation; and/or 2) Underscore the fact that Goodell thinks he can exercise almost unchecked power, which has been a problem for them in front of third party arbitrators/judges of late.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I'm saying going through a quixotic fight with the NFL in court in violation of its bylaws can come with consequences and it's a helluva lot easier for is to sit here and say "exoneration or die fighting" than is is for Kraft to actually make that decision.

 
Yeah I agree with that.

 

[Ed Hillel]

98.5 just quoted Jason Cole, who I believe is at the meetings, saying that it does sound like the punishment is going to be reduced. Not sure where Brady lies in all this.

 

[kartvelo]

Indeed.  Would the lawyers here care to weigh in?  If innocent, what sort of legal recourse do these two have?

IANAL, but if there's any deal or other outcome that implicitly accepts the premise that there was wrongdoing, I'd think it'd be hard for them to convince anyone that they'd been falsely accused. Who exactly would be testifying to that for them?

 

[joe dokes]

Admit I'm a little down on this whole thing if it results in any kind of a deal, if they're 100% convinced that they did nothing wrong. Any deal, at least to me, indicates that they did, in fact, do something wrong. I think a lot of Patriots fans are going to read it that way, and the media's going to have a field day with it. Was really hoping they'd be going to war.

 
When you lose a war, you're dead.
 
If "any deal, to you, means they did something wrong,"  all anyone who has experience resolving legal and legal-ish disputes can say is "NO, it doesn't."  The rest is up to you.

 

[DJnVa]

98.5 just quoted Jason Cole, who I believe is at the meetings, saying that it does sound like the punishment is going to be reduced. Not sure where Brady lies in all this.

 

If they're reducing the punishment without actually having to go through the appeal...well, that would be interesting.

 

[soxhop411]

Ken Fang ‏@fangsbites  49s49 seconds ago
ESPN and NFL Network will air Robert Kraft’s news conference at the NFL Spring Owner’s Meetings at 1 pm ET.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Crap. I have a meeting at 1. I hope this leaks early.

 

[joe dokes]

On to Pittsburgh.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Crap. I have a meeting at 1. I hope this leaks early.

 
Sucks having a job, right buddy?

 

[kartvelo]

 
I'm having trouble imagining a deal that wouldn't: 1) Indicate that the NFL had somehow fucked up the investigation; and/or 2) Underscore the fact that Goodell thinks he can exercise almost unchecked power, which has been a problem for them in front of third party arbitrators/judges of late.

Goodell has gone all in at every step, on the suspicion, evidence, conclusions, and punishment. After many months spent getting to that point, how can he possibly admit that the NFL (meaning he) fucked things up from the start?

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

 
If they're reducing the punishment without actually having to go through the appeal...well, that would be interesting.

Yea, I wonder who takes the fall there?  Do they admit that the Wells report was a piece of crap and the Pats have done enough to prove that it was?

 

[Super Nomario]

I disagree. Kraft is well respected amongst his peers. He can threaten going nuclear. The owners meetings are happening right now. The report and the process have come under fairly heavy fire in the last week. His legal leverage is really only one part of it – he's going up against not a peer but an employee.

I actually think he has the most leverage he's going to have right at this moment because he can call the whole thing off if the terms are acceptable. My father who is an attorney thinks this is the moment to get the picks and suspension reduced (perhaps to just the 4th) and vacated respectively albeit with an admission about some "misunderstanding" on DoritoDink and McNally's parts that, combined with the reduced sanctions, accepts some role in the ordeal, without admitting full guilt. You could also clarify that after much discussion both sides have come to the understanding that the other acted in good faith: that the League simply wanted to get to the facts and that the Pats were trying to be cooperative but also respectful of their employees' privacy.

If Kraft and Goodell can agree to that, the mouthbreathers on both sides will remain unsatisfied but it will allow both parties to return to business as usual and accept some kind of victory that comports roughly with the known facts: that something seemed suspicious and the balls were more or less out of compliance but that Brady wasn't directly involved and there was a lot people on both sides didn't and perhaps still don't totally understand.

As a Pats fan who thinks it's more probable than not that the team did nothing wrong, I could accept that.

What has changed since the report came out and the initial punishment that makes you think the Patriots will get off with a small fraction of their original punishment? Looks to me like wishful thinking. Kraft isn't likely to bite the hand that feeds him (more than half his net worth is from owning the Patriots) and the other owners aren't likely to rally around him if he does. Why would Goodell back off now?

 

[TheoShmeo]

Any lawyer who has represented a client who wished he had pursued or consummated a deal after it was too late -- after a judge/jury had ruled/rendered a verdict in both criminal and civil contexts -- knows first hand and rather unpleasantly that accepting a deal, and taking the decision out of the hands of a judge, jury or arbitrator, is often the best course of action.
 
And so does anyone who has ever been in that client position.
 
Similarly, out of court workouts/debt restructurings often get done for just the same reason.  Sometimes it's better to control the outcome rather than accept the risk that a third party might rule adversely, and to control costs and time spent on a possibly, though not assuredly, better resolution in court.

 

[lambeau]

Schefter just tole Cowherd he thinks Kraft will announce he's accepting his penalties despite his innocence.
They had a long talk Saturday night at Sean McManus' Soho birthday party and hugged it out.

 

[aksoxfan]

 
Ken Fang ‏@fangsbites  49s49 seconds ago
ESPN and NFL Network will air Robert Kraft’s news conference at the NFL Spring Owner’s Meetings at 1 pm ET.
 

Guess I will delay my morning bike ride to watch; and prepare to be pissed off.....

 

[Stitch01]

That's the smart money bet with possibly Bradys suspension going bye bye on appeal.
 
The only thing that will really make me unhappy is if he gives any indication that Brady should drop his appeal.  If he says "Ive decided to move on', cant really blame him.

 

[cshea]

Apropos of nothing, but isn't the fact the league hasn't reprimanded the Pats over the Wells Report Context almost and admission that they screwed up and the Report is junk? I mean, in season of an organization criticizes officials or whatever, they get fined almost immediately.

 

[ernieshore]

Admit I'm a little down on this whole thing if it results in any kind of a deal, if they're 100% convinced that they did nothing wrong. Any deal, at least to me, indicates that they did, in fact, do something wrong. I think a lot of Patriots fans are going to read it that way, and the media's going to have a field day with it. Was really hoping they'd be going to war.

 
I agree with this. I understand the argument about taking a deal when you have to, but most of the general public already believe the Pats cheated anyway, and the tide in the media and league seems to be turning some against Goodell, so go all out and try to prove what total garbage this whole process has been. Plus, any deal better have some provisions about how the league handles future accusations and investigations, since much of this punishment's severity apparently came from leftover feelings about Spygate. In other words, the next time the Ravens lose, they better not be able to cook up some accusation that Gostkowski uses too light of a cleat - and then the Pats end up get docked 3 picks and $5 million without any recourse. 
 
Though in saying this, if they get Brady off the hook totally - I could live with that. 

 

[joe dokes]

What has changed since the report came out and the initial punishment that makes you think the Patriots will get off with a small fraction of their original punishment? Looks to me like wishful thinking. Kraft isn't likely to bite the hand that feeds him (more than half his net worth is from owning the Patriots) and the other owners aren't likely to rally around him if he does. Why would Goodell back off now?

 
"Given the cost and uncertainty of the appeals process and potential litigation, the parties have agreed to resolve this case in a mutually agreeable manner...." 

 

[Salem's Lot]

Schefter just tole Cowherd he thinks Kraft will announce he's accepting his penalties despite his innocence.
They had a long talk Saturday night at Sean McManus' Soho birthday party and hugged it out.

 
I don't know how any Patriots fan could except this from the owner. He needs to fight this. What's next? taking down the banners because somebody had their socks too high? When you except getting railroaded, you're going to keep getting railroaded.