+1]No football in the world is going to help you win by 38! Let it go and let Tom be great! On to the 2015 season
NFL=WWEivanvamp said:Suspended for what, exactly???? The commissioner HAS to be very very clear on this. The problem is, he won't be, because any specific charge is easily debunked or at least called into serious question.
If it were up to me I would have BB take every fucking ball out of play on each defensive snap all season long and DEMAND!! a gauge test each time.lars10 said:My question is... what's the likelihood that BB has multiple balls of opponents taken out of play every game to make sure that they're within spec? (is this possible?). Probably won't happen because the league will now change it's policy about how balls are handled/measured/etc. because they now care about that more than they did before they found out the Patriots may have been possibly taking advantage of their lack of caring about their previous policy.
This is why I think McNally may have needled them. Brady complained about the balls being overinflated and sometime they were, even past 13.5. They probably felt he's not going to complain if they are slightly under so let's just make sure we never have to hear him complain again. I just don't think Brady knew they were doing this. If he is so particular about the balls he would never put up with inexact needling leaving them with a random variances. He only cared about them being too high.geoduck no quahog said:
The most cited piece of "evidence" is that the large range of deviations among the Pat's footballs supports a theory that they entered the game with psi's all over the place (i.e., what would happen if they were needled), versus the Colt's 4 (or 3) footballs which clustered together as expected since they all entered the game within a small range.
Gorton Fisherman said:It continues to amaze me how casually the concept of a multi-game suspension for Brady is being tossed around in the media, and how seemingly accepting people are of the concept. Particularly in light of the fact that there is a specific NFL rule on the books specifying that the discipline for intentionally tampering with balls after inspection should include, but not be limited to, a fine of $25K. I haven't heard this rule or the $25K fine mentioned at all by any of the talking heads speculating on Brady's possible punishment. Why? Granted, the rule explicitly allows for a penalty greater than $25K. But shouldn't the $25K fine at least be the starting point for the discussion (as opposed to a 2-6 game suspension, which seems to be the most commonly-speculated penalty I've heard)? Wouldn't Goodell exceeding the base penalty by a significant amount be something that people should at least strongly question? Shouldn't there be discussion of why Brady's particular infraction is so heinous that it merits a punishment far in excess of the base discipline called for in the NFL's own rulebook? Especially since Brady isn't actually being accused by Wells or the league of participating in the tampering, but merely being "generally aware" of it. What am I missing here?
And BTW, I'll just re-state yet again that if Brady's crime is merely being "aware" of improper ball handling, it's not even clear to me what actual NFL rule he would have violated.
Maybe BB is just as pissed at Brady as he is at the league. He made a passionate defense of his organization. Even if you question all or part of the report, there is plenty there for a coach to be concerned about.If it were up to me I would have BB take every fucking ball out of play on each defensive snap all season long and DEMAND!! a gauge test each time.
NFL has more leaks than a off brand diaperLuckyBen said:And now with the fucking leaks again??? Jesus the NFL is a joke
I just made the same point in the punishment thread. They commissioned a fucking investigation that yielded a finding that Brady was probably aware that the equipment guys were fucking with the footballs. I honestly don't know what they hang a suspension on that doesn't cause the NFLPA to go nuts.Gorton Fisherman said:And BTW, I'll just re-state yet again that if Brady's crime is merely being "aware" of improper ball handling, it's not even clear to me what actual NFL rule he would have violated.
soxhop411 said:@RyanHannable: According to @garymyersNYDN, its now question of how many games will Tom Brady be suspended for, not will he at all http://t.co/CrhHSROs3j
What a fucking joke
ivanvamp said:Suspended for what, exactly???? The commissioner HAS to be very very clear on this. The problem is, he won't be, because any specific charge is easily debunked or at least called into serious question.
What specifically did he do to violate this rule?SemperFidelisSox said:But Brady isn't being suspended under the tampering of football rule. He's being suspended for violating the leagues policy on 'Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules'.
nattysez said:
"Tom Brady failed to fully cooperate with Mr. Wells's investigation, despite being given multiple opportunities to do so. Further, Mr. Wells determined that it was more probable than not that Mr. Brady was aware that, in response to his insistence that balls conform to his preferences, team personnel were deflating footballs below the required PSI. Mr. Brady's actions harmed the integrity of the league and of the games in which Mr. Brady participated. The statements of Mr. Brady and his representative after Mr. Wells's report were released are inappropriate at best and, frankly, are mostly notable for what they lack -- an unqualified denial that Mr. Brady broke the rules. As a result of the foregoing, Mr. Brady is hereby suspended without pay for the first xx games of the 2015-2016 NFL season."
Of course they won't. That's the precedent this opens up but we all know better.Harry Hooper said:As was noted above, apparently everyone in the NFL who is aware of a player doing steroids, not wearing the required pads on the field, importing Galapagos tortoises or whatever who doesn't drop a dime to Roger will be headed for suspensions.
ivanvamp said:Of course they won't. That's the precedent this opens up but we all know better.
J.McG said:
At least Myers's believes, based on his sources, that the suspension is likely to be on the lower end relative to the most dire predictions. He says at least 2 games likely, whether that's the original suspension length or it's a 3-4 games appealed down to 2 games. Full season suspension isn't even under consideration, 6-8 games unlikely.
He also seems to think both Belichick and the Pats organization as a whole could get dinged pretty heavily, although that seems to be speculation from Meyers rather than inside info.
Eh?soxhop411 said:@RyanHannable: According to @garymyersNYDN, its now question of how many games will Tom Brady be suspended for, not will he at all http://t.co/CrhHSROs3j
What a fucking joke
soxhop411 said:6-8 games is a fucking joke and would make me consider not watching the NFL
Captaincoop said:
It's absolutely unbelievable that they're going to let one of the game's all-time greatest players be suspended and publicly tarred-and-feathered over an issue this trivial.
genoasalami said:
You can say it is trivial ...and yes, they still win the game and the SB if the balls were OVER inflated...but, ya know ...changing the air pressure of footballs is really not a trivial thing .it gains a competitive advantage ...it just does....he put himself in a position to receive punishment...and a slap on the wrist and a 500k fine is not going to cut it ....he will be suspended, probably 4 games down to 2 games ...he will be fine ..the team will be fine..
I'm sure Cam was "generally aware" that his footballs were getting heated up as well.Captaincoop said:
How many games did Cam Newton and Teddy Bridgewater get for Heatergate? That would be a good starting point.
geoduck no quahog said:
The more I think about this stuff, the more troubling all of the data manipulation, though explicable, becomes. Another group could have easily come up with the conclusion that there simply wasn't enough reliable data to justify any kind of conclusion.
Seems to me that the Wells team came to a conclusion based on some pretty damning evidence concerning McNally and then took the best view of the science that supports that, which is not exactly kosher.
genoasalami said:
You can say it is trivial ...and yes, they still win the game and the SB if the balls were OVER inflated...but, ya know ...changing the air pressure of footballs is really not a trivial thing .it gains a competitive advantage ...it just does....he put himself in a position to receive punishment...and a slap on the wrist and a 500k fine is not going to cut it ....he will be suspended, probably 4 games down to 2 games ...he will be fine ..the team will be fine..
What exactly did Brady do to change the air pressure of the balls again? How exactly did he put himself in a position to receive punishment?genoasalami said:
You can say it is trivial ...and yes, they still win the game and the SB if the balls were OVER inflated...but, ya know ...changing the air pressure of footballs is really not a trivial thing .it gains a competitive advantage ...it just does....he put himself in a position to receive punishment...and a slap on the wrist and a 500k fine is not going to cut it ....he will be suspended, probably 4 games down to 2 games ...he will be fine ..the team will be fine..
There is a lot of sloppy reading and thinking in this thread. You can sell that to lots of people, but not to a hearing officer.Stitch01 said:What exactly did Brady do to change the air pressure of the balls again? How exactly did he put himself in a position to receive punishment?
Checked on this. No, JJ is not around for the ref inspection.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Is McNally alone with the refs when they test the balls or is JJ also there? I was under the impression they were telling McNally to make sure the refs knew the Pats wanted them at 12.5 PSI because McNally was the only one in the room with them.
I agree if JJ is also in the room when they're testing then the McNally stuff looks worse to the Pats case.
dcmissle said:"Awareness" is not an "action". It is a non-action. You can penalize a non-action only if there is a duty to act. Management has that; players do not.
Now refusal is an action. And if they penalize TB for refusing to turn over e-mails or texts, that is is different issue.
Except the Wells Report does not contain a finding that he changed the air pressure in the footballs. I mean, you can't hire a high- priced white-shoe law firm to conduct an investigation, have them spend almost four months investigating, have them produce a massive written report complete with detailed findings about the key Patriots players, coaches and employees allegedly involved, and then suspend a player for something that the investigation does not conclude he was involved in.genoasalami said:You can say it is trivial ...and yes, they still win the game and the SB if the balls were OVER inflated...but, ya know ...changing the air pressure of footballs is really not a trivial thing .it gains a competitive advantage ...it just does....he put himself in a position to receive punishment...and a slap on the wrist and a 500k fine is not going to cut it ....he will be suspended, probably 4 games down to 2 games ...he will be fine ..the team will be fine..
At the least, with a sample size that low you would switch to "non parametric" methods, which do not presume normal population distributions.speedracer said:
My stats knowledge is pretty rusty, but I'm pretty sure no responsible statistician would ever draw any conclusions from any sort of significance test where the sample size was 4.
tedseye said:At the least, with a sample size that low you would switch to "non parametric" methods, which do not presume normal population distributions.
Exponent ' s use of t - testing is pretty laughable, given the absence of any logging of data to support its assertion that the starting pressures were uniformly 12.5. That would be a mean of 12.5 and an SD of 0.0. Say what?
86spike said:Checked on this. No, JJ is not around for the ref inspection.
McNally's only ball related jobs are to carry the bag of balls to the red locker room and then to the field. He does not prep the balls.
He does apparently tell the refs "remember, Tom likes them at 12.5".
Yes, of course. Goodell saw which way the wind was blowing on possible penalties, and now he has to gauge public reaction to know now many games it should be.DrewDawg said:Eh?
I don't get it. Did a source tell him "ok, we figured out he'll miss games, now we're going back in to figure out how many."
TheoShmeo said:This isn't exactly a thunderbolt after Myers report but I just heard the same thing from someone connected to one one the networks. And it wasn't based on Myers.
Suspension, amount to be determined.
MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Thanks.
So it doesn't seem bad at all for Brady to bitch at JJ and for JJ to tell McNally to make sure the ref gets the pressure right. And Brady tells JJ he wants them at 12.5 PSI and asks for him to give them a copy of the rule book.
I don't see how they jump to any conclusions short of evidence (which I haven't seen) that Brady would have any clue McNally deflated balls (if he did). Brady never saw any texts about McNally being called "the deflator" far as we know.
Yeah, I vote no suspension.Ralphwiggum said:
Violation of what? The rule against being generally aware that the equipment guys were deflating footballs.
Although I voted no suspension, of course I wouldn't put it past Goodell to try to suspend him. I just don't see what he's going to hang his hat on to do so.