#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Thank you so much for posting this. Simply an awesome article, though I could have done without the "beloved Patriots" line at the end, as it kind of destroys the objectivity that was otherwise displayed.m0ckduck said:
The issue is that something like the deflation nonsense really isn't a PR disaster. To you and me out seems like it should be, but to the general public it isn't. Not even close.Red(s)HawksFan said:
I want to thank this thread profusely. i stayed on it real time, which turned out to be quite the commitment.
Thanks to ballgahzi, I have received a world class education in fascism and the modern media.
Ballghazzi is indeed a blueprint for modern mass manipulation, and i find it pretty disturbing.
The issue was never really the issue. I witnessed the great power of repeating several talking points again, and again.
There was only a few gatekeepers of information super vague NFL stemming after select "trusted insider leaks"
and then the same precise talking points from myriad angles.
The airwaves were (and mostly still are) literally filled with a mantra of "cheat" along with the resonant frequency of outrage
presented as the supporting evidence.
This was "just" about the game of professional football and no one will end up in a concentration camp gas chamber over it (hopefully not),
but i now have way way way more checks and balances in place before I ever go down the rabbit hole on any media event
be it sports related or not, and so should a lot of people that got swept up in this (they won't though...)
Integrity of the game? Integrity of a football game?
I think the integrity of serious journalists, and at least 2 famous science figureheads has been seriously compromised just to (presumably) get attention.
If the media is willing to trade their integrity over a football story, than what won't they sell it for?
Laziness can not justify what occurred here, at some point, inaction is pure inarguable collusion, and almost all of the media failed miserably.
As with spygate and now Ballghazzi, i never understood how people could be so unwilling to receive new/conflicting information from a different perspective.
I think the answer could be (in a great twist of irony) that the outraged masses do not want new/conflicting information because they are suspicious/afraid of being manipulated by some persuasive slickster looking to trick them...
I just wanted to follow my team, the NEP, and i am beyond ecstatic they won, they really earned it and deserve it.
But I also got a far bigger lesson as well.
Thanks to ballgahzi, I have received a world class education in fascism and the modern media.
Ballghazzi is indeed a blueprint for modern mass manipulation, and i find it pretty disturbing.
The issue was never really the issue. I witnessed the great power of repeating several talking points again, and again.
There was only a few gatekeepers of information super vague NFL stemming after select "trusted insider leaks"
and then the same precise talking points from myriad angles.
The airwaves were (and mostly still are) literally filled with a mantra of "cheat" along with the resonant frequency of outrage
presented as the supporting evidence.
This was "just" about the game of professional football and no one will end up in a concentration camp gas chamber over it (hopefully not),
but i now have way way way more checks and balances in place before I ever go down the rabbit hole on any media event
be it sports related or not, and so should a lot of people that got swept up in this (they won't though...)
Integrity of the game? Integrity of a football game?
I think the integrity of serious journalists, and at least 2 famous science figureheads has been seriously compromised just to (presumably) get attention.
If the media is willing to trade their integrity over a football story, than what won't they sell it for?
Laziness can not justify what occurred here, at some point, inaction is pure inarguable collusion, and almost all of the media failed miserably.
As with spygate and now Ballghazzi, i never understood how people could be so unwilling to receive new/conflicting information from a different perspective.
I think the answer could be (in a great twist of irony) that the outraged masses do not want new/conflicting information because they are suspicious/afraid of being manipulated by some persuasive slickster looking to trick them...
I just wanted to follow my team, the NEP, and i am beyond ecstatic they won, they really earned it and deserve it.
But I also got a far bigger lesson as well.
This is the hard reality for Pats fans. Don't expect vindication even if the NFL finds no evidence of wrongdoing.SumnerH said:
The only way it becomes a PR issue is if the investigation or subsequent reporting reveals that the league or the Colts were up to something truly nefarious. At this point, that's little more than a paranoid fanatasy.
Did I miss this a week ago? The league has come out and said they have evidence that the Patriots did this intentionally?
"The league said Jan. 23 that evidence shows the Patriots intentionally deflated footballs in their 45-7 victory over Indianapolis that gave them the AFC championship and a trip to Arizona to face Seattle in a game they won 28-24."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12271531/indianapolis-colts-gm-tipped-nfl-patriots-deflating-footballs-troy-vincent-says
"The league said Jan. 23 that evidence shows the Patriots intentionally deflated footballs in their 45-7 victory over Indianapolis that gave them the AFC championship and a trip to Arizona to face Seattle in a game they won 28-24."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12271531/indianapolis-colts-gm-tipped-nfl-patriots-deflating-footballs-troy-vincent-says
SumnerH said:
I don't think it's PR disaster yet. But, I do think Goodell is between a rock and a hard place if he values his seemingly strong relationship with one of the NFL's most influential owners. This becomes a PR problem once the NFL decides no punishment for the Patriots. The public ain't gonna like that.
Mort on Mike and Mike right now, floundering with the stuff he's saying. No mention of the Rappaport report. Even specifically said that "the investigation was initiated by the league, not the media." Fuck that guy
semsox said:
He realizes that if the investigation comes up with nothing that he comes out of this looking like a fool. His initial report drove a lot of the conversation and now it looks like it was wrong. Why would anyone listen to him in the future?
Goodell reminds me of that high school teacher who has the most chatter-filled class in the school despite also handing out far more punishments for talking in class than a typical teacher. Put the same kids in a different class and they are quiet and not punished often.
That's our commish.
That's our commish.
Yeah, the only "evidence" is and ever has been that the balls were underinflated when inspected, a claim which has itself become less and less relevant since the adult scientists had their say and the initial Mort tweet has proven to likely be a sack of crap in the first place.
Aside from Grigson, the sore loser many times over, Mort has had the most damaging impact on this entire thing with two little tweets--one to spread misinformation and one to tell everyone how distraught the league was over it. Not that they were ever very trustworthy but thanks to Mort, his league sources now have roughly the same credibility as the ever popular "someone familiar with X's thinking."
edit: "Integrity" needs to go away. The word is meaningless coming from an organization and individuals who have none. This is classy LDT all over again.
Aside from Grigson, the sore loser many times over, Mort has had the most damaging impact on this entire thing with two little tweets--one to spread misinformation and one to tell everyone how distraught the league was over it. Not that they were ever very trustworthy but thanks to Mort, his league sources now have roughly the same credibility as the ever popular "someone familiar with X's thinking."
edit: "Integrity" needs to go away. The word is meaningless coming from an organization and individuals who have none. This is classy LDT all over again.
Yes... I heard same.
Bullet points:
Was not asked, nor did he comment on the conflict between his early reports and Rapoport's Sunday update.
All kinds of nothing there...
Bullet points:
- It was the league, not a media member, that initiated investigation into only the Patriots' footballs (very strange opening comment)
- Confirmed that it was Grigson who squealed
- Before game, each team submits "watch" list; Colts had inflation of Patriots' footballs on their list based on November game
- Don't know who initiated halftime activity of "gauging" footballs
- Footballs gauged at halftime, "Patriots' balls were thrown out... of course the Colts' balls were fine." (the Patriots' balls were not thrown out, they were re-inflated and put back into circulation per multiple other reports)
- Everyone agrees that this had no impact on the game
- It's not a matter of competitive advantage, it's a matter of integrity
Was not asked, nor did he comment on the conflict between his early reports and Rapoport's Sunday update.
All kinds of nothing there...
Well, it was Grigson who tattled to the league, so technically it's true the league initiated the investigation. But then someone leaked it to Kravitz and that's when things really blew up, so to speak.
Jed Zeppelin said:
So if it turns out that the info from the NFL was wrong, this will be the *second* time in less than a year that Mort was used by the NFL to spread an incorrect narrative only to be left hanging after the fact. I assume that he figured there was no way they'd do him so quickly after the Rice video debacle, and so he probably thought the info about the balls was rock solid, particularly if he was told that the league was "distraught" over the findings.
I get that his sources and relationship with the league are important, but doesn't he have to turn on them at some point?
A side point, but not only did Rapoport report all of this information, but he did so on nfl.com. Do you think the league is letting him do that if there's any false information there? Mort is a clownshow, and if it turns out he was wrong on this, at least this shitshow will end with his reporting "integrity" taking a huge hit.
I wouldn't classify as a PR disaster but I don't buy into the theory that this has been good for the league. Ratings for the Super Bowl were right around what you'd expect normally.SumnerH said:
You now have people thinking cheaters won the showcase game and even that it was fixed.
Many claim they are done with the NFL, that this was the last straw. I've heard the same from Pats fans. Between this, the hypocrisy of the league and player safety issues they've had enough.
Now I think very few, if any, will actually stop watching but this is another ding in the league armor.
Not a big one but these little dings start to add up.
I didn't think so. But the language ESPN used is pretty clear/strong and I wonder what was actually released from the NFL on Jan 23.soxin6 said:
For ESPN the time spent discussing deflated balls >> time spent discussing last play of Super Bowl >> time spent discussing the Super Bowl Champion Patriots
First of all, the mainstream media stopped putting effort into this story a long time ago.
There are two sets of people who still care: Pats fans who all now realize that the whole thing was a joke precipitated on the Pats because of sore loser Baltimore and Indy staff AND jealous idiots who have made zero attempts to wrap their tiny brains around what actually happened and are looking for something to get worked up about.
I listened to Mike and Mike for about half an hour this morning and a little talk radio on my way home last night.
80% of the press last night seemed to be about Carrol's decision.
100% of the air time on M&M this morning was about Johnny Manziel.
There are interesting, compelling things going on in the world of sports. The mainstream sports media isn't in the business of spending much time on it. It's all about whatever they decide is the most sensational story of the moment. Whatever.
There are two sets of people who still care: Pats fans who all now realize that the whole thing was a joke precipitated on the Pats because of sore loser Baltimore and Indy staff AND jealous idiots who have made zero attempts to wrap their tiny brains around what actually happened and are looking for something to get worked up about.
I listened to Mike and Mike for about half an hour this morning and a little talk radio on my way home last night.
80% of the press last night seemed to be about Carrol's decision.
100% of the air time on M&M this morning was about Johnny Manziel.
There are interesting, compelling things going on in the world of sports. The mainstream sports media isn't in the business of spending much time on it. It's all about whatever they decide is the most sensational story of the moment. Whatever.
So the ballboy in question turns out to be "elderly" and ducks into the bathroom with the balls to take a whiz and it takes him 98 seconds. Being kinda elderly myself, I know it would take me at least 98 seconds to find my dick. NFW I'm gonna be able to deflate 12 footballs in that short of a timeframe. The Pats see old dude do this on the security cameras and immediately turn it into the NFL.
Question: How does old dude taking a whiz transform into "a person of interest" which is lawyer speak for perp?
Question: How does old dude taking a whiz transform into "a person of interest" which is lawyer speak for perp?
Ed Hillel said:
To whom will his integrity take a hit?
The residents of SOSH? There is a great group of people here, that are intelligent and have waded through the BS to get a real understanding of this story. But so what? We won't like Mort. He won't cry for us.
The general public? There is a slight degree of nuance and understanding required here to really grasp that Mort's tweets were full of shit. Expecting the masses to use that minuscule amount of brain power to understand this is not likely a reasonable expectation.
Other media members? Maybe in the short term, but if he is still bringing clicks and eyeballs then ESPN won't care. And next time he breaks a story the other media dogs will be waiting to hump the shit out of tweet.
Mort is a fool and a joke, but no one will care. Expecting anything else would be a case of underestimating the Stupidity of Americans. Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans.
C4CRVT said:
It wasn't 100% Manziel when I tuned in for a few minutes. They teased the Mort appearance around 8:15 with Greenberg saying something to the effect of 'the story of Super Bowl 49 won't be closed until we have the Wells report'. Unless the NFL buries the Wells report by releasing it on a Friday evening during March Madness or something, ESPN is almost certainly ready for a full day coverage when it does come out, complete with the standard questions about Belichick's and Brady's legacies.
H78 said:
Like it or not, this thing's hanging around until the NFL figures out how to tie a face-saving bow on it.
I totally understand, but as a Pats fan what I'm saying is no matter what happens this whole thing has proven to be a complete joke. Goodell docks us a pick? This is a joke. Nothing happens at all? This is still a joke. We won the Super Bowl. The balls used in that game were guarded better than the White House lawn. Brady had one of the greatest Super Bowl performances ever using those footballs against arguably one of the best defenses ever. He shut this whole thing down with his play; anyone who hangs on to the Deflategate thing is just doing so because they have an ax to grind, and as Pats fans, I think we can now openly mock those people because of what happened in SB49. My conscience is totally clear no matter what Wells (lol) reports.drleather2001 said:
This is officially a non-story to anyone who can connect 'A' and 'B.' In a way I hope Goodell has no evidence but still docks us a low pick, because it'll give Kraft the resolve he needs to start the movement that'll get rid of him once and for all.
Know what was proven over the last two weeks? Bill Belichick is great at his job. Tom Brady is great at his job. Fuck, Malcolm Butler is great at his job. Roger Goodell, no matter what happens with 'Deflategate', has proven to be awful at his job. That's all I need to happily move on from all of this garbage.
I came here to call the Colts' GM a whiny little spot of nothing, but I changed my mind on the way in. I totally understand him calling BB on footballs and making it a national story. After all, BB made the squishy-soft Colts D line a national spectacle - on live national TV!
Assuming that the investigation finds that the Patriots did nothing wrong, this is how I would approach it if I were in charge:
The investigation has determined that the NFL Patriots did NOT intentionally deflate any footballs prior to or during the AFCC game. The scientific and video evidence supports everything said by both Coach BB and Tom Brady, and the Patriots have been nothing but 100% cooperative during this entire process. We would thus like to publicly apologize to Coach BB, Tom Brady, Bob Kraft, the entire New England Patriots organization, and NEP fanbase. We also apologize for allowing the story to become the sensational mess that it became. After mishandling previous investigations, we were overly-sensitive to ensure that we took adequate time with this investigation. Unfortunately, this allowed numerous unfounded media leaks to guide the story's narrative, and in the process one of our model organizations was unjustly dragged through the mud. Again, we would like to offer our apologies to BB, TB, and BK especially, and more importantly offer our congratulations to the New England Patriots for their well-earned, hard-fought victory in the Super Bowl. We are on to the NFL Draft -- Tampa Bay is on the clock.
The investigation has determined that the NFL Patriots did NOT intentionally deflate any footballs prior to or during the AFCC game. The scientific and video evidence supports everything said by both Coach BB and Tom Brady, and the Patriots have been nothing but 100% cooperative during this entire process. We would thus like to publicly apologize to Coach BB, Tom Brady, Bob Kraft, the entire New England Patriots organization, and NEP fanbase. We also apologize for allowing the story to become the sensational mess that it became. After mishandling previous investigations, we were overly-sensitive to ensure that we took adequate time with this investigation. Unfortunately, this allowed numerous unfounded media leaks to guide the story's narrative, and in the process one of our model organizations was unjustly dragged through the mud. Again, we would like to offer our apologies to BB, TB, and BK especially, and more importantly offer our congratulations to the New England Patriots for their well-earned, hard-fought victory in the Super Bowl. We are on to the NFL Draft -- Tampa Bay is on the clock.
I realize as a lurker my opinion probably means less then nothing but this thread is an awesome clearinghouse for sanity, nuance, and outrage concerning this nonsense assault on the Patriots legacy via an utter fraud of an investigation.
Until Goodell hopefully meekly admits he's got nothing I think the thread's utility remains.
Also Grigson can go eat a bunch of scum for being the worlds biggest cry baby. It would be the ultimate justice for the Pats to open up the title defense against the Colts. They might try and score 100.
Until Goodell hopefully meekly admits he's got nothing I think the thread's utility remains.
Also Grigson can go eat a bunch of scum for being the worlds biggest cry baby. It would be the ultimate justice for the Pats to open up the title defense against the Colts. They might try and score 100.
jimbobim said:
I think the Pats will open at home and the Colts game is in Indy. I know Baltimore opened in Denver last season but that had to do with the Orioles playing at home at the same time.
If it turns out that the NFL had nothing on the Pats then Chris Collingsworth should be fired. He's a darn good analyst but his ominous tone at the end of the Superbowl was such a turd in the punchbowl that it should be the end of the line for him if he was just making it up when he intimated that he had some deep dark secret that he couldn't reveal on national TV.
Since the Colts made an issue of this before the game, and presumably asked for the halftime measurements, it seems likely to me that they inflated their balls to 13.5 psi for contrast.
The outdoors would take them to 12.0, but about 5 minutes after bringing them in at halftime they would be warming up to around 12.5--thus passing the test that the Pats' balls failed.
Would the Colts be smart enough to know this?
The outdoors would take them to 12.0, but about 5 minutes after bringing them in at halftime they would be warming up to around 12.5--thus passing the test that the Pats' balls failed.
Would the Colts be smart enough to know this?
Koufax said:
I didn't hear any of this, so what did he say? Is it possible he was referring to his earlier comments that the NFL would regret opening up a whole can of worms league-wide with its handling of this investigation?
Don Buddin's GS said:
This isn't true. A person of interest is often a potential witness or other non-suspect.
SumnerH said:
Which only makes it technically correct, because most of the public does think of it as a potential perp.
I completely agree. I live in CT and have to interact with obnoxious Jets and Giants fans on a daily basis. I've been hearing about Spygate for 7 years and if I have to hear more bitching about cheating and tainted legacies I don't think I could take it.JimD said:
Fight it tooth and nail and don't accept one iota of guilt or punishment, even if the punishment is meaningless. You're defending your entire brand - your legacy.
On Mike and Mike today Mortenson speculated that the league would be checking surveillance cameras from other games to see if there was a "pattern" of suspicious activity by the Patriots, and again mentioned the regular season game against the Colts and that lower psi balls were on the list of issues that Indianapolis had asked the refs to look out for in the playoff game.
snowmanny said:
If that's the case, and no one should really trust Mort anymore, then Goodell really wants to find something, ANYTHING. He knows a PR problem awaits him if he cannot punish the Patriots. And he most certainly does not want to apologize because that is simply not part of his personality. Yes, the best way out of this for a coward like Goodell is to find at least the slightest trace of wrongdoing and hope it's enough to ward off Kraft's attempt to go for his job.
snowmanny said:
What's becoming clear is that Mort and Rappaport are dealing with different sources ... perhaps sources with different agendas. There's so much back room information floating around that it's best not to look at what is leaked, but why that kind of information would be leaked.
Consider this report from Mort: If the NFL finds that the Patriots ball attendant takes a whizz every time after he gets the footballs from the refs, they can claim a "pattern," which can lead to that lower threshold of proof of "suspicious activity" ... even if they can't prove the attendant deflated the balls.
I think it's a mistake at this stage to believe the agenda in play is to determine what happened in the AFC championship game. The people involved on all sides are playing a much higher-stakes poker game.
This is going to make for an interesting 'pattern' since the Indy game was on the road.snowmanny said:
At this point though I also wonder what the point could possibly be. The world is stuck with the Pats as the winners what good does it do to force some stupid, trumped up charge against them?E5 Yaz said:
The smartest, easiest thing to do is to end the whole thing and claim (as I suppose they could 'honestly' do) that this shows just how serious they are about the integrity of the game.
Plus the guy in the bathroom was identified as a gameday employee.
At most he worked 10 days at Gillette this year between regular season and playoffs. To think Belichick or Brady even knows who Billy Bladder or Peter Prostate is is preposterous, like just about everything else.
Oh... I'm a 52 YO man... 80 seconds if we're still keeping score, and I didn't have any foul weather gear to navigate.
At most he worked 10 days at Gillette this year between regular season and playoffs. To think Belichick or Brady even knows who Billy Bladder or Peter Prostate is is preposterous, like just about everything else.
Oh... I'm a 52 YO man... 80 seconds if we're still keeping score, and I didn't have any foul weather gear to navigate.
wiffleballhero said:
That the Patriots won the Super Bowl with properly inflate footballs is meaningless to this discussion.
We've got a league that fails repeatedly to properly address wife-beating, child abuse, animal cruelty, drug addiction, PEDs, long-term effects of concussions and tasteless on-field antics. Deflategate gave it perfect cover when the spotlight burned brightest. The league will find the Patriots culpable, fine them, take a pick away and perhaps suspend Belichick and/or Brady. That will sate the bloodlust of the large segment of fans pissed off by this overblown controversy.
Reality has nothing to do with this
I think the Patriots winning has inoculated them against the possibility of a suspension or serious draft pick loss.
Such an action would call into question the legitimacy of the Super Bowl, which in turn would shine the light back on the NFL to prove why they didn't do more to fix it, which could attract congressional attention and advertiser unease.
That would result, eventually, in the finding that this was all a bunch of half-assery that never should have been an issue in the first place.
I anticipate that, in 3 weeks, a report will be issued and talked about and the Patriots will get a $25,000 fine. Which would still be stupid.
Such an action would call into question the legitimacy of the Super Bowl, which in turn would shine the light back on the NFL to prove why they didn't do more to fix it, which could attract congressional attention and advertiser unease.
That would result, eventually, in the finding that this was all a bunch of half-assery that never should have been an issue in the first place.
I anticipate that, in 3 weeks, a report will be issued and talked about and the Patriots will get a $25,000 fine. Which would still be stupid.