#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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    208

kartvelo

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bakahump said:
Being a Fierce cop is one thing.
 
Had he been fierce about things that matter.....like beating a woman in an elevator or your kids until their ass bleeds, thats one thing.
 
Hell I would commend him for spending NFL money to promote workplace intolerance of such causes and by shedding a light on some of societies ills.
 
Instead he is a fierce cop who does this?  We brought in a guy to clean up the city and he is handing out parking tickets while murders and rapists terrorize the night.
Or, suspending licenses and awarding jail terms for parking violations, to people who haven't been shown to have committed any parking violations.
 

bakahump

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The NFL has finally figured out how to stop the patriots.  Suspend all their starters.
 
No Starting Qb
No Starting Rb (though I can at least comprehend the reason for this one)
 
Whos next? Gronk? Edelman? Jones and Collins?
 
Maybe this was a rule I missed during the competition committee meetings?
 
How about they just make us 0-3 and lets them play from there.
 
The Irony....BB will have JG out there throwing for 300 yards and Jonas Gray running for 150 per game on the way to a 4-0 record.  The Media will be eating it up with "4-0 Patriots are on fire .....with Reinforcements on the way!"
 

bakahump

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kartvelo said:
Or, suspending licenses and awarding jail terms for parking violations, to people who haven't been shown to have committed any parking violations.
Brady has more likely the not double parked in his life.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Ed Hillel said:
He'd be banned from facilities, wouldn't he? Kraft should have them do something in Indy.
 
Is that the way it works? You're suspended a game so you can't be near the facility?  Well even better then - they should absolutely do it then.
 

wibi

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dcdrew10 said:
So the angry boy in me wants Brady to do everything short of committing a felony to exact retribution upon Goodell. And I mean burn everything to the ground, the Wells report, the NFL, Goodell's home, his dog, his reputation, etc.
 
But that won't do anything to change the public perception. Win in court and make it clear that at most he did was put pressure on the ball boys to make sure it was at 12.5 psi and they took it too far, which is what it seems like happened to me.
 
Unless Brady wins the court case completely he's already lost in the court of public opinion.  If he wins the court case because of a technicality he will still have lost in the court of public opinion. 
 

txexile

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lexrageorge said:
The chances of Brady and the NFLPA appealing a suspension is 100%.  
 
The only way this would lead to a lawsuit is if Goodell is foolish enough to appoint one of his lackeys as the arbitrator.  While theoretically possible, I cannot imagine even Goodell doing something that stupid. 
 
So this raises the question, Who does Roger Goodell turn to for advice on this? To uber-owners (like Kraft, were this not about the Patriots)? To his senior management team at the league office (like, cough, Kensil, if he can take some time off from his permanent job of leaking to the press)? To bulletin boards under a fake handle ("cheatazz cheatazz")? I have to assume, watching the carefully plotted leaks of the last five days that Roger is interested in hearing what the public has to say, if for no other reason than to see which way the wind is blowing. It's lonely at the top... does poor Roger have any place to turn for good advice?
 

kartvelo

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bakahump said:
Brady has more likely the not double parked in his life.
And if the fierce cop wants to suspend his license and throw him in jail for double parking, he's going to have to show some evidence beyond, "I just bet he probably did it when we weren't looking."
 

Hoya81

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txexile said:
 
So this raises the question, Who does Roger Goodell turn to for advice on this? To uber-owners (like Kraft, were this not about the Patriots)? To his senior management team at the league office (like, cough, Kensil, if he can take some time off from his permanent job of leaking to the press)? To bulletin boards under a fake handle ("cheatazz cheatazz")? I have to assume, watching the carefully plotted leaks of the last five days that Roger is interested in hearing what the public has to say, if for no other reason than to see which way the wind is blowing. It's lonely at the top... does poor Roger have any place to turn for good advice?
The Rooneys and Maras tend to be his go to owners outside of Kraft.
 

kartvelo

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txexile said:
 
So this raises the question, Who does Roger Goodell turn to for advice on this? To uber-owners (like Kraft, were this not about the Patriots)? To his senior management team at the league office (like, cough, Kensil, if he can take some time off from his permanent job of leaking to the press)? To bulletin boards under a fake handle ("cheatazz cheatazz")? I have to assume, watching the carefully plotted leaks of the last five days that Roger is interested in hearing what the public has to say, if for no other reason than to see which way the wind is blowing. It's lonely at the top... does poor Roger have any place to turn for good advice?
I nominate myself.
 

WayBackVazquez

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By the way, a truly objective fact-finding investigation would be just as interested in text messages between, for example, Walt Anderson and his crew, Ravens and Colts officials, etc., as in Brady's cell phone. I don't recall reading any of those.
 

txexile

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Florio's latest:
 
NFLPA hopes Kraft pushes for neutral arbitration
 
Posted by Mike Florio on May 11, 2015, 10:52 AM EDT
 
 
 
For years, the NFL Players Association has lobbied for Commissioner Roger Goodell to permanently surrender his power to resolve appeals of player discipline. Last year, significant gains were made in that regard via, for example, the revised policy regarding performance-enhancing drugs.
 
In other areas, Goodell continues to have final say over player punishment. Most notably, he possesses that power under the Personal Conduct Policy. He also holds ultimate authority over the looming suspension of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for violation of the rules regarding the integrity of the game of football.
 
This time around, the Commissioner’s decision would sideline one of the league’s highest-profile players for one of the league’s highest-profile regular-season games. For that reason, the NFL Players Association hopes to find an unlikely ally in the push to nudge Goodell to designate a truly neutral party to resolve the appeal.
 
Per a league source, the NFLPA hopes Patriots owner Robert Kraft pushes for neutral arbitration. There’s already a sense within NFLPA leadership that Kraft wants Goodell to delegate the decision to an outside party.
 
It’s a sensible position for Kraft to take, as it relates to his team’s interests. A neutral arbitrator would review the proposed punishment but also would likely entertain any challenges to the underlying investigation, which from a scientific standpoint relies on the very unscientific reality that the two pressure gauges available at the AFC title game generated significantly different readings and disregards referee Walt Anderson’s “best recollection” that he used to inflate the balls before kickoff the gauge that generated halftime measurements that suggest no tampering.
 
But the precedent could be a dangerous one for the league. If neutral arbitration is required for Brady, why isn’t it required for every player?
 
Actually, neutral arbitration could be a good idea in this case because any lenience exercised by Goodell would be criticized as favoritism for one of the few owners who: (1) staunchly and publicly defended the Commissioner during the Ray Rice debacle; and (2) determines the Commissioner’s pay. But if Kraft actually wants neutral arbitration, it could mean that Goodell wants to disregard that obvious conflict of interest.
 
Regardless, the entire analysis tends to confirm the wisdom of the Missouri Supreme Court’s recent ruling that no Commissioner can exercise true independence when resolving disputes involving the people who employ and pay him.
 

Ralphwiggum

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BrunanskysSlide said:
 
The NFL is absolutely digging it's own grave on this one. At this point the damage has been done.  I hope they suspend Brady. I already have the feeling his texts will prove he knew something.  But, hopefully the ensuing appeal will reveal that Gooddell, the Colts, and NFL were equally bad actors in this.  
 
I agree with the perspective that the NFL could have handled this a lot differently and it would never have come to this.  This would undoubtedly have been better for the Pats, but beyond that I'm not sure the NFL is doing damage to its own brand here, certainly not more than was done in its handling of Ray Rice.  I think you have to face the fact that:
 
1.  The vast majority of the fans of the other 31 NFL teams think that the Pats and Brady cheated and want Goodell to drop the hammer on the Pats.  They don't give a shit about Four Lombardis, Dynasties, Legacies or anything of that ilk.  These represent like 90+% of the NFL's paying customers.  Just as many here are vowing to boycott or whatever if Brady gets suspended, I suspect you'd find similar posts on many different NFL Team message boards saying they are done with the NFL if Goodell shows favoritism towards Brady and doesn't drop the hammer on him.
 
2.  Clearly there is either a very vocal and powerful minority, or even a majority of Bob Kraft's fellow owners who wanted the Pats to get hammered over this, and do not see whatever reputational harm that Brady, BB, Kraft or the Pats suffer as being detrimental to them.
 
I completely agree that this whole thing is a shit show that Roger has bungled in the way that only he can bungle it, but unfortunately this time that bungling really only has a negative impact on the Pats and Pats fans, and the vast majority of the rest of the league's owners and fans really don't give a shit.
 

dcmissle

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If and when Goodell tries to dispense with a neutral arbiter and act as judge, jury and executioner, remember this portion of the statement from Yee, disseminated last week and crafted with care:

"One fact alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office's protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration.

"The league is a significant client of the investigators' law firm; it appears to be a rich source of billings and media exposure based on content in the law firm's website. This was not an independent investigation and the contents of the report bear that out -- all one has to do is read closely and critically, as opposed to simply reading headlines.

"The investigators' assumptions and inferences are easily debunked or subject to multiple interpretations. Much of the report's vulnerabilities are buried in the footnotes, which is a common legal writing tactic. It is a sad day for the league as it has abdicated the resolution of football-specific issues to people who don't understand the context or culture of the sport."

Any sane person advising Goodell tells him to steer this to a neutral. If Goodell's approach is, *WTF does Tom Brady think he is*, this is going to get very interesting in a hurry.
 

Harry Hooper

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Roger & Co. are determined to find that missing dollar:
 
Three men go to stay at a motel, and the man at the desk charges them $30.00 for a room. They split the cost ten dollars each. Later the manager tells the desk man that he overcharged the men, that the actual cost should have been $25.00. The manager gives the bellboy $5.00 and tells him to give it to the men.
 
The bellboy, however, decides to cheat the men and pockets $2.00, giving each of the men only one dollar.
 
Now each man has paid $9.00 to stay in the room and 3 x $9.00 = $27.00. The bellboy has pocketed $2.00. $27.00 + $2.00 = $29.00 - so where is the missing $1.00?
 
 
 
LINK
 

djbayko

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Ed Hillel said:
Regarding the texts/emails, the best solution would be to have a large firm with a good reputation vet for relevant information. Any personal leaks would result in the destruction of the company, you could even write out damages in a contract beforehand. If Brady is objectively innocent and cares deeply about his public image (he may or may not), he should probably do that on his own terms.
What large firm with a good reputation would accept this job though? Let's say they do nothing wrong, and Brady's phone gets hacked via some other method? That's a pretty big risk to take. Sure, it's usually nudes of female movie stars and models, but Tom's phone has a target on it right now.

Someone also raised the good point that Tom could have deleted texts, and Wells could draw negative inferences from this. I'd like to add that the deletion doesn't even need to be nefarious. I recently deleted the majority of my texts - whole conversations - because the pictures contained within were taking up GB of space and going through the miles of texts searching for and deleting individual messages would have taken forever.

Edit: Typo / mobile phone
 

joe dokes

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ivanvamp said:
 
Is that the way it works? You're suspended a game so you can't be near the facility?  Well even better then - they should absolutely do it then.
 
He could appear on the stadium bigscreen for banner raising festivities on opening night.
 

Bleedred

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If Brady is ultimately suspended, and he misses opening night, will the Krafts hold the banner ceremony for another game?   I hope to God they do, but I'm thinking they will not....as it would be too much of a f*ck you to the league (and I don't think Kraft has the stones...but maybe I'm wrong).  What I think they'll do is honor Brady at their next home game as the Super Bowl MVP.   
 

RedOctober3829

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Bleedred said:
If Brady is ultimately suspended, and he misses opening night, will the Krafts hold the banner ceremony?   I hope to God they do, but I'm thinking they will not....as it would be too much of a f*ck you to the league (and I don't think Kraft has the stones...but maybe I'm wrong).  What I think they'll do is honor Brady at their next home game as the Super Bowl MVP.   
#NoBradyNoBanner
 

Shelterdog

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djbayko said:
What large firm with a good reputation would accept this job though? Let's say they do nothing wrong, and Brady's phone gets hacked via some other method? That's a pretty big risk to take. Sure, it's usually nudes of femaleovie stars and models, but Tom's phone has a target on it right now.

Someone also raised the good point that Tom could have deleted texts, and Wells could draw negative inferences from this. I'd like to add that the deletion doesn't even need to be nefarious. I recently deleted the majority of my texts - whole conversations - because the pictures contained within were taking up GB of space and going through the miles of texts searching for and deleting individual messages would have taken forever.
 
All of them.  I'll bet anyone a nickel that a pretty good white collar practitioner was representing Brady in this matter--maybe only behind the scenes.

 
 

Eddie Jurak

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ShaneTrot said:
Is this guy really going to be ousted? He has made a fortune for the owners. He has handed off discipline to underlings.
Has he really? Or would the NFL have made a fortune even if they had hired someone who wasn't a clown?
 

Hoya81

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LuckyBen said:
I think Brady most likely had something on his phone that he was uncomfortable with Wells finding. How often does Brady get a new phone though? I highly doubt he's still on his iPhone 4. Who's to say he didn't get a new phone recently and felt that Wells would incriminate him on this fact. I just think Wells made it seem like this narrow scope, when in reality they would've had free range under these bogus terms. Anyways, my new prediction is one game that will probably be reversed, plus a hefty fine.
He recently was spotted buying an Apple Watch.
 

Ed Hillel

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RedOctober3829 said:
My revised prediction:
 
Brady--3 game suspension, $250,000 fine
Patriots--$250,000 fine and loss of 1st round pick
A first round pick would really be spectacularly over the top.
 

Ed Hillel

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Eddie Jurak said:
Has he really? Or would the NFL have made a fortune even if they had hired someone who wasn't a clown?
Hard to deny this stuff makes money, at least in the short term.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Just voted.  Here's what I think.  
 
Brady gets 4-8 game suspension.  Why?  Who the hell knows.  "For his involvement in deflategate".  No specifics mentioned.
 
Patriots get fined a half million dollars.  Why?  Who the hell knows.
 
Patriots lose a draft pick - either 2nd or 3rd round - in 2016.
 
Brady appeals and this thing drags out through the summer.  Hopefully Goodell gets his comeuppance.  But I'm not optimistic, even though logic and even a small semblance of rationality tells us that this entire thing is a frigging joke.
 

Otis Foster

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Shelterdog said:
 
All of them.  I'll bet anyone a nickel that a pretty good white collar practitioner was representing Brady in this matter--maybe only behind the scenes.
 
 
lambeau said:
Brady had several lawyers with him at his interview.
 
Anyone know who they were -Counsel for the NEP or independent counsel?
 

Shelterdog

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lambeau said:
Brady had several lawyers with him at his interview.
 
Sure. Was there a white collar guy, and if so who was he? I know that Brady's agent was there and I'm pretty sure the Pats' lawyers were there as well.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
 
 
Yeah it's like getting 2 years in jail for speeding when the minimum punishment is a written warning. Oh, and without any actual proof you were speeding.
 
As someone pointed out, it's like being the owner of the car but letting your kid drive, so you're in the passenger's seat.  The kid gets pulled over by a SWAT team, and he gets cited for doing three miles an hour over the limit.  When asked if they got him on radar, they say, no, we just think it's more probable than not that he was.  And oh, by the way, mister owner of the car, YOU are going to jail for 2 years for this.
 
That's what this is like.  
 

Peak Oil Can Boyd

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One thing that's been confusing to me since the report came out: if Brady was furious at the ball guys after certain games because the balls were overinflated, doesn't this imply that the McNally did NOT deflate them after inspection, or more specifically, was UNABLE to deflate them for whatever reason for those games?  Doesn't that point to this not being a consistent practice at home games?  Is it possible Brady was mad because he felt like they didn't make their best case for the lower limit during the inspection and just let the refs overinflate?
 

djbayko

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Shelterdog said:
All of them.  I'll bet anyone a nickel that a pretty good white collar practitioner was representing Brady in this matter--maybe only behind the scenes.
 
I think you (or I) are misunderstanding the suggestion I was replying to then. The suggestion, as I understood it, was for this firm to take responsibility for the contents of the phone. If any leaks occur, the company is at fault and there are damages, both financial and reputational.

But how does this company guarantee security of a phone that is not under their control before and after the job is completed? That's the risk I am referring to.

Edit: Typos / mobile phone.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Eddie Jurak said:
Has he really? Or would the NFL have made a fortune even if they had hired someone who wasn't a clown?
 
Commissioner of Professional Sports League is a pretty difficult job for most people to evaluate, though.  I'm not defending Goodell who to me seems completely incompetent.  But the NFL owners could pretty much have their pick of anyone to do that job considering his salary and they haven't made a change.  It is possible that the owners are all as dumb as he is, but we know there are a few smart ones, including Kraft, who have defended him.  Clearly there is something about his job performance that is either invisible to the normal person or that makes them appreciate him to the tune of $40 million a year or whatever.
 

Lukiewerle

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I think Roger's ego was bruised and he goes haywire because of a combination of the public denials by Brady, Belichick, the public request for apology by Kraft, the overall media shitstorm, and most importantly the supposed "history of cheating."
 
Belichick suspended for the year, Brady suspended for 8 games, Loss of 1st round draft pick and 500K fines all around.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Lukiewerle said:
I think Roger's ego was bruised and he goes haywire because of a combination of the public denials by Brady, Belichick, the public request for apology by Kraft, the overall media shitstorm, and most importantly the supposed "history of cheating."
 
Belichick suspended for the year, Brady suspended for 8 games, Loss of 1st round draft pick and 500K fines all around.
 
I hope you're correct. Why not blow the whole thing up into even more of a complete shitshow? Would be fun to watch since the actual football games don't matter anymore.
 

riboflav

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Punishment:
 
Patriots must forfeit first two games of the 2015 season.
Patriots must start back-ups in all Jets and Colts games for 2015 season. Back-ups must play at least 50% of the snaps. Determination of who constitutes a back-up is determined by NFL officials in consultation with Colts and Jets ownership.
Patriots must vacate all previous accomplishments from the time Kraft assumed ownership of the team. All wins, Super Bowls, AFC titles, etc. are vanquished. 
Brady serves a one-year suspension and must swear allegiance to Goodell in order to play in 2016.
Ghost serves an 8-game suspension and Patriots are not allowed to sign any designated kicker to replace him without the NFL's consent.
BB is given the Pete Rose treatment and issued a lifetime ban.
Kraft is never allowed again to speak with or be in the same room as Goodell.
 
Let's see how close I get.
 

DJnVa

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Brady 4 games, team fine of some number that really doesn't matter, 4th round pick forfeiture.
 
Upon appeal, Brady immediately reinstated, fine reduced to $25,000, pick returned to NE.
 

Oppo

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BB and Brady suspended for the year, go win championship in Canada.
Pats lose 1st rounder and $1 million
 

EL Jeffe

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  • Goodell will label the team with a "culture of cheating." The phrase "integrity of the game" is likely to be used between three and 500 times in his announcement.
  • Brady: Suspended 8 games (later appealed down to 0 games).
  • Gisele: Will tweet something vaguely snippy directed towards the league.
  • Belichick: Suspended 4 games (McDaniels will be the interim coach.)
  • The Tweedle Brothers will be banned for a season.
  • Team: $500,000 fine.
  • Forfeiture of their 1st round pick in 2016, and 2nd round picks in 2017 & 2018.
  • (Additionally, Goodell will not allow Belichick to draft a safety in the next two drafts, resulting in great front office turmoil.)
  • 40% of the media will say the Patriots got off way too lightly and will be outraged that the four Super Bowl championships have not been vacated
  • Florio will pen several columns indicating the punishment was legitimate, and also several columns indicating that this was no big deal and he can't understand the public's outrage.
  • Tom Curran will be apoplectic.
  • Mike Reiss will thoughtfully and earnestly question everything about this episode.
  • Mike Reiss will be fired and will go work for Bill Simmons.
  • The Patriots will be whistled for 47 accepted penalties in the Colts game. In the first half.
  • The public, not understanding how fumble statistics work, will continue to suspect the Patriots of cheating over the next several seasons.
  • Sharks of Vegas will continue to be a SOSH punchline for the next several years.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Kraft should punish himself for not learning his lesson with Roger at their first rodeo in 2007. Not sure how somebody as dumb as Roger has been able to play Kraft for a fool on multiple occasions. 
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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Since Roger is not competent enough to run a lemonade stand much less the NFL, I will not hold him responsible if this debacle goes even further to shit.
 
It will be on Bob Kraft to make this right once the expected unjust decision is rendered.
 
I am hopeful we see the same defiant Bob Kraft that demanded an apology and not the one that authorized the timid statement that was released just after the Wells report came out.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Kraft should punish himself for not learning his lesson with Roger at their first rodeo in 2007. Not sure how somebody as dumb as Roger has been able to play Kraft for a fool on multiple occasions. 
 
Right. Because Kraft should know about the PSI of footballs during game day.