#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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Why? What did it change? Seems to have just confirmed the science/math discussed in this thread. (sorry if you're joking)Koufax said:
The balls aren't supposed to drop in pressure when it is colder out they do drop, the laws of physics have yet to be broken. The Colts balls didn't "stay the same", they were reportedly "in spec" which if they started off higher is certainly very possible.notfar said:
Let's be real. This is wonderful for the NFL's broadcast partners, but a nightmare for Goodell. There seems no way this will be sorted out by the game, so he faces the very real prospect of handing the trophy to so-called cheaters. The easiest game outcome for him is a Pats' blowout win, and although I think that is more likely that a Seahawks blowout win, it's not more likely than not. He had better hope for a spectacular game.
There is a decent chance the NFL was played by Harbaugh > Pagano> Irsay>Kravitz. Still, they were not the source of Mort's reports and some of the other reports. That came from someone within NFL office. Massive self inflicted wound.
There is a decent chance the NFL was played by Harbaugh > Pagano> Irsay>Kravitz. Still, they were not the source of Mort's reports and some of the other reports. That came from someone within NFL office. Massive self inflicted wound.
Maybe the league doesn't care if the balls change over the course of the game naturally. Maybe the rule is written just so that the balls meet specs at the time of testing, and they don't care of they drop over a few hours due to the environmental conditions. Because the rule never says anything about testing the balls again later on.doc said:
For the NFL to not say anything puts a black cloud over the Super Bowl that one of the teams cheated. If they don't announce something today, I don't know what the hell they're doing but what's new.tims4wins said:
I think the NFL knows the conditions will change. But the intent is that they change equally for both teams.doc said:
They really just need to release the information that is leading to the Mort and Peter King reports. If it is incorrect and both teams footballs moved a little but since the Pats started on the low end went out of acceptable range but Colts stayed in, it is no big deal. End of story. If there was minor fluctuation in the Colts footballs, but huge moves in the Pats then there is an issue.
Bob420 said:
I know Brady said yesterday that "12.5 feels perfect to me", but I sincerely doubt that any QB in the league has been concerned with the PSI of his game balls several hours before the game, or at any time after that. There is close to 0 doubt in my mind that Brady first heard of the 12.5 PSI standard within the last 96 hours.
And regardless of what they said, the onus is on the officials to complete inspections on these balls. Reports have leaked that the officials "properly" inspected the Patriots balls pregame, as well as the Colts balls (at least that's what Mort said). But until I hear pre and post game numbers on these balls it seems difficult to draw real conclusions on any of this (assuming that even those get released at some point).
Exactly, and that's the way too keep it. Temperatures can change over time, and you don't want to worry about chasing a moving target when it doesn't really matter. Just have a baseline measurement.ivanvamp said:
...And change the min/max to a much larger, reasonable range.
I believe that both Bill Belichick and Tom Brady told the truth yesterday, because I cannot fathom Bob Kraft allowing them to hold press conferences and lie to the world. If they had something to cover up, there's no way we would get the answers we got yesterday.
If natural causes can explain the loss of PSI in the Pats balls, I don't see why the Pats should have to explain why the Colts balls didn't deflate (assuming that they didn't). That's ridiculous. Go ask the Colts for an explanation. Maybe they used some gas other than ordinary air.
Brady should have went full Iverson inserting 'ball pressure' for practice. He could have listed all the compelling story lines on each team, but 'we talkin bout ball pressure'
I haven't responded to anything you've posted before because I felt you were trolling and it wasn't worth it but what you wrote here is exactly correct.Bob420 said:
I suspect they didn't measure before the game and just did a simple squeeze test, when the Colts complained they had to test and "shocked face" they were low.
Edit:WTF I used "hear" instead of "here"
No offense to you, but why do people keep saying this? Of course it's going to have a lot of pages and an absurd amount of views, it's a 'scandal' facing the Patriots that's garnered insane amounts of national and even international media attention. I'm not shocked at all that people are talking and thinking a lot about it (for various reasons) a little over a week before Brady and Belichick look to win #4.jsinger121 said:
Yes, it's a ridiculous issue, but given the team and timing, the amount of attention it's getting is not shocking at all.
Michael Silverman @MikeSilvermanBB 7m7 minutes ago
Pedro weighs in on #DeflateGate: 'There's no crying in football.' http://bit.ly/1zCPZNc #RedSox #Patriots
Pedro weighs in on #DeflateGate: 'There's no crying in football.' http://bit.ly/1zCPZNc #RedSox #Patriots
jsinger121 said:
So true. I have ducked in and out of this thread all week. Most of it is hilarious.
I am a die hard Cowboys fan. (Kid in the '70's) I root for the Pats next, mostly due to my eldest son who is a rabid Pats fan.
I think the balls were under inflated on purpose, and am completely bemused at the hysteria. (both in the media and here*)
Like prior posters, I think it akin to pine tar. All teams adjust the ball to their QB preference. I have no idea, but guess that some (many?) QB's like the balls inside the guidelines, (high or low) so no big deal for those teams.
Rogers obviously likes them over, Brady under.
Seriously - who gives a shit. ANY football fan worth a salt knows this is a joke. Any non football fan - Who gives a shit? Their opinion is far less important, and they will vanish into the woodwork in a week.
Super Bowl? I hope the Pats POUND the Seahwaks, (I have an irrational dislike for Carroll)
If the SB champs are the Pats - EVERY real fan will know that they were the best team this year. And again, who cares about the rest.
*All the stuff about the atmosphere, bladders, Blount falling in the ball, is crazy. It is okay to just say they under inflated. In fact, I wish the Pats led with that, fully understand why they can't.
Finally, as discussed here ad nauseam, the NFL is a joke. Roid up the players, dispose of them, tamp down the head injuries as much as possible, look the other way at ever possible legal infraction by the players, etc, etc. Then ham fist an utterly ridiculous never enforced transgression. At least they destroyed the Colts.
And a game has an ending...which this "scandal" does not seem to have any time soon.pappymojo said:
Just saw the video of Brunell crying. Something's not right there. Loved ones should intervene.
I really, really, though after BB's PC yesterday that this was ready to fade into the ether, or at least for another story to start to take its place.
But...no. It's gotten worse, which just didn't seem possible.
I'm going to go to my grave irritated about this, whenever someone mentions Tom Brady or Bill Belichick to me. Such a manufactured scandal.
But...no. It's gotten worse, which just didn't seem possible.
I'm going to go to my grave irritated about this, whenever someone mentions Tom Brady or Bill Belichick to me. Such a manufactured scandal.
Ferm Sheller said:
It's like when grampa is driving on the curb, stopping at green lights and forgetting to put the car in "park" before he tries to get out of it. Someone in the family needs to nut up and stop him from driving.
Admit the thought has crossed my mind, though I don't think it would be Plan A.tims4wins said:
Say the commish thinks they're guilty, but can't prove it. One option would be to bring the hammer down anyway as noted in his memo re: lower burden of proof. This would risk backlash from Kraft and possibly other owners (Rooney?) who may view the penalty as excessive or unwarranted. That said, a viable approach (per Roger's worldview, at least) and the public at large would be pleased since the Patriots are already deemed guilty outside of New England.
The other option in the absence of evidence would be to sit tight and let the Patriots twist. Some unknown fact might materialize or someone with direct knowledge may come forward - leading to the hammer coming down. If not, he can quietly issue the slap on the wrist or issue a statement about inconclusive evidence on a Friday night in March. The media coverage will be light (especially compared to the last few days), few casual fans will hear that there wasn't enough evidence and that will be that. What will most of America remember? That B&B likely cheated their way into the Super Bowl and both the franchise and their legacies are tarnished - even in the absence of actual wrongdoing. Perhaps one would say Roger would need to be twisted to take this approach, but if he's convinced he is right, it is not inconceivable.
Meanwhile, everyone's attention is on this during the off-week and ratings for the game itself will be sky high.
Of course, I'll put a huge caveat on all of this tinfoil hat talk. If there is some wrongdoing they can prove, it's quite possible that the league office simply is taking (a lot of) time to get their ducks in a row (as noted upthread).
Ed Hillel said:
Doesn't matter. This isn't about whether it impacted the game, if the rule even matters one bit, or if the deviation in question was meaningful in any way. This is about lynching Brady and BB and the mob is assembled.
I'm still waiting for the huge investigation and punishment of the Carolina Panthers for tampering with footballs during a game, getting caught on national television doing so, and receiving only a "stop doing that" from the NFL.
You know, the same organization that is now investigating the Patriots for *possibly* tampering with footballs during a game, though there's not actually any real evidence of it.
You know, the same organization that is now investigating the Patriots for *possibly* tampering with footballs during a game, though there's not actually any real evidence of it.
Speculation:
1. After testing, NFL was prepared to bring down the hammer, as Theo indicated from two unconnected sources.
2. Somebody told the NFL office that live is more complicated than measurements.
3. Whatever interviews they did were at best inconclusive from a discipline standpoint.
4. Light turns from green to yellow in NFL office.
5. Meanwhile, Pats tell NFL office you cannot leave us twisting in the wind. If you won't say something, we will. NFL remains silent. You get BB and TB press conferences
6. Light turns from yellow to red, until after the SB.
Here we are. NEPs have to find shelter in their work, and get through media day as best they can.
1. After testing, NFL was prepared to bring down the hammer, as Theo indicated from two unconnected sources.
2. Somebody told the NFL office that live is more complicated than measurements.
3. Whatever interviews they did were at best inconclusive from a discipline standpoint.
4. Light turns from green to yellow in NFL office.
5. Meanwhile, Pats tell NFL office you cannot leave us twisting in the wind. If you won't say something, we will. NFL remains silent. You get BB and TB press conferences
6. Light turns from yellow to red, until after the SB.
Here we are. NEPs have to find shelter in their work, and get through media day as best they can.
Worth noting, given that Brunell is broke, that he spent about half of his time bawling about how "this is our livelihood."Ferm Sheller said:
Methinks there was a bit more going on there.
ivanvamp said:
So many frustrating angles to this, as a Patriots fan. And, like Spygate, the more you bring in the myriad contradicting evidence as to why NE shouldn't be punished, the more crazy you sound, because the media is peddling the simple, satisfying, answer of: They cheated again!
I find the King article concerning. If what he is writing means the following then it doesn't look good:
-all balls tested with a gauge pre-game and found to be properly inflated
-at halftime only pats balls found to be deflated
-pats balls replaced with backup pats balls that were tested and passed inspection
-pats balls and colts balls used in second half tested after game and found to be properly inflated
In that case, if we accept the above as true, that means the only reasonable explanation is that someone deflated the footballs. I don't think the odds of a rogue ball boy are high and I don't think Goddell will even need more proof at that point. He'll drop the hammer on the Pats.
-all balls tested with a gauge pre-game and found to be properly inflated
-at halftime only pats balls found to be deflated
-pats balls replaced with backup pats balls that were tested and passed inspection
-pats balls and colts balls used in second half tested after game and found to be properly inflated
In that case, if we accept the above as true, that means the only reasonable explanation is that someone deflated the footballs. I don't think the odds of a rogue ball boy are high and I don't think Goddell will even need more proof at that point. He'll drop the hammer on the Pats.
Brady and Belichick were telling the truth yesterday because if they were not they both went all-in on a massive lie that will be far too easy to expose at some point.
You don't need sperm on Andrew Luck's dress to prove that Brady had sexual relations with these balls.
This is true also because it still is just a stupid story about something for which there is not an actual advantage. If they had cheated Brady could have said, "yeah, I apparently like the balls below 12.5 but I did not know the rule. I am getting my comeuppance for my crack about the Ravens."
The problem is that the idiot sports media is itself completely all-in on it being a cheating scandal. They can't really back themselves out not only because doing so shows that they are not 'journalist' at all but total hacks, but doing so also is something of an admission that all of these former players, coaches and people around other teams are so totally owned by the Pats.
If they back out now it just proves that they are all a bunch of sore losers.
I wonder what Pete Carroll is saying to Seattle actually.
You don't need sperm on Andrew Luck's dress to prove that Brady had sexual relations with these balls.
This is true also because it still is just a stupid story about something for which there is not an actual advantage. If they had cheated Brady could have said, "yeah, I apparently like the balls below 12.5 but I did not know the rule. I am getting my comeuppance for my crack about the Ravens."
The problem is that the idiot sports media is itself completely all-in on it being a cheating scandal. They can't really back themselves out not only because doing so shows that they are not 'journalist' at all but total hacks, but doing so also is something of an admission that all of these former players, coaches and people around other teams are so totally owned by the Pats.
If they back out now it just proves that they are all a bunch of sore losers.
I wonder what Pete Carroll is saying to Seattle actually.
If the NFL can gather no tangible evidence of actual tampering with the balls after the officials checked them before the game, they should fine the Pats and be done with it. This whole thing has become 10x the story of the biggest football game of the year, which is bad for the NFL. Fine them and say something along the lines of "as an organization, the Patriots are responsible for the balls they use during the game and as a league we will be taking measures to make sure ball pressure is a more closely monitored thing in the future."
The longer this thing lingers, the worse it looks for the NFL, as people keep dredging up Ray RIce and the Spygate debacles. These 2 weeks should be about building up to the greatest spectacle in sports. Instead, 50 people are screaming questions at Brady about how he likes his balls.
The longer this thing lingers, the worse it looks for the NFL, as people keep dredging up Ray RIce and the Spygate debacles. These 2 weeks should be about building up to the greatest spectacle in sports. Instead, 50 people are screaming questions at Brady about how he likes his balls.