Derrick White, playoff alpha
- Thread starter benhogan
- Start date
I was being a little sarcastic.
JT is clearly the best player but it gets muddied beyond that.
KP unlocks a lot of actions for Brown & Tatum, and will be key at the end of games since his long 3s are basically unguardable.
I wouldn't argue with 3rd.
With two high utilization guys and 3rd moderately high utilization guy, the other two spots on the floor have to be focused on the things that move the needle that aren't directly reflected in finishing a possession with a shot: defense, distribution, taking high-percentage shots when the defense is over-correcting on JB/KT, and improving the shot quality for the high volume shot-takers. Its hard to imagine a player that does that better than this version of Derrick White. He's absolutely perfect for this iteration of the Celtics.
This may be a cop out but I think any of the top 5 can miss regular season games and the team will still win (yes, that includes Tatum).
Tatum is definitely the most important player....but I would also argue that if any of the top 5 were to miss the playoffs that it would be VERY hard for the Celtics to win the title...
I will say that Derrick White is the epitome of how I want the team to play. Quick decisions, quick with the ball and every movement has a purpose. I think he's the only Celtic player like that (Holiday is probably the closest to him).
I don't know how that translates to value within the team but I think it's worth pointing out
Tatum is definitely the most important player....but I would also argue that if any of the top 5 were to miss the playoffs that it would be VERY hard for the Celtics to win the title...
I will say that Derrick White is the epitome of how I want the team to play. Quick decisions, quick with the ball and every movement has a purpose. I think he's the only Celtic player like that (Holiday is probably the closest to him).
I don't know how that translates to value within the team but I think it's worth pointing out
Agreed with all of the above. I do love the fast decision making with White. I feel like that's something Pop tries to instill up and down the roster, no? Figure out what you want to do within half a second of getting the ball?
Good points. Derrick is a little more secure with the ball but Jrue is such a bull on defense,
This team is so much less drama-filled with a bunch of pro's that don't play-act.
I expect the NBA will start cracking down on the Vaudeville acts with Dray getting T'd up & tossed quicker
Jrue on offense is also everything we ever wanted Smart to be and more. Solid play while also deferring to Tatum, KP and Brown.. while also taking advantage of his mismatches.
I mostly remember this, but I didn't remember Aldridge, nor do I remember who responded to him with this, which made it even better: "What makes you think Lamar Odom has what it takes to make it in the competitive world of shoe sales?"
Henry Abbott, responding to David Thorpe's original quip.
https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4989/2008-nba-finals-liveblogging-game-6
All I want to know is which one of you is Neil Iyer?
This trade synopsis is hilarious.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford
This trade synopsis is hilarious.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford
It almost reads like something out of the Onion sports pages. It's so ridiculously over the top.
Well he did claim he was writing like a blowhard writer. Can almost picture CHB writing this one. Or Ron Borges.
Perk's got that
I'm impressed Neil collated so many mind-numbingly dumb takes in one concise article.
If you were trying to write a column today, looking back at the last three years and being completely wrong in every single move that you mention, this would be the column
I did like how the DW trade was the domino falling in the whole team being stripped down to the studs.
Derrick White with a season-high 30pts
2 blocks + 2 steals STOCKS!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv_C4B_HTkw
2 blocks + 2 steals STOCKS!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv_C4B_HTkw
unless they start using +/- just going to have to settle for Banners
White is the Celtics' Koji
He prefaced it by saying he was going into Blowhard Reporter mode. He hated the DW Trad, made a meal of it, & went down some hyperbolic roads
There was some '28 pick swap hand-wringing but on the whole, the trade was very well received around here
(if my memory is correct)
Too early for ON/OFF in my opinion, but Karalis shows some Derrick White love
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXQYMBfsT9w
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXQYMBfsT9w
View: https://twitter.com/jackfrank_jjf/status/1736086227344912512
Jackson Frank
@jackfrank_jjf
I think Derrick White has a legit All-Star case this year. Averaging 16-5-4-1-1 on 65% TS, creation/ball-handling duties up from the last couple years, still playing at an All-Defensive Team level. Has probably been Boston's 2nd-best player so far, +4.7 EPM (14th in the league).
Jackson Frank
@jackfrank_jjf
I think Derrick White has a legit All-Star case this year. Averaging 16-5-4-1-1 on 65% TS, creation/ball-handling duties up from the last couple years, still playing at an All-Defensive Team level. Has probably been Boston's 2nd-best player so far, +4.7 EPM (14th in the league).
Shooting 39% on his last 515 3s, since the start of the 2022 season, on 6 attempts/36. Inside-the-arc efficiency great too; nothing here is a fluke.
I think you could take Tatum, DWhite, and Jaylen, and surround them with a lot of different types of supporting casts and still get a championship-level team. Obviously Brad goes above and beyond in making the rest of that cast all-star level, but those 3 are the core engine.
Derrick White has about as good a chance at making the ASG as I do because counting stats reign supreme when it comes to All Star selection, but I buy the argument that he's the Celtics' second most important player. Trading Smart so White could start is probably Brad's best move to date. That he was able to get Porzingis in return is gravy.
Hasn't Draymond Green made 4 teams with "nothing special" counting stats?
Sorry to tell you, but he has a much better chance of making the ASG than you do.
Draymond started making all-star teams after GS won their first title, and he was a nightly triple double threat during his string of 3 straight from 2016-2018, averaging 12/8/7, and 3 stocks per game. The points are obviously nothing to write home about, but in combination with everything else, he had several years of fairly impressive numbers (especially the assists for a big man). White has him beat in scoring, but 16/4/5 with 2.2 stocks, even with super high efficiency and all-nba level defense, isn't going to get anyone to the all-star game.
RIP Marcus but
more minutes/bigger role at the end of games for Derrick White
+ 2 Firsts
+ KP (on a discounted extension)
+ unloading Gallinari
should get Brad Executive of the Year
I don't get combining steals and blocks into "stocks", even if Scal explained it yesterday and we all want to sound like we're up on the latest lingo. They are not the same thing, in one very important way: a steal ends an opposing possession and gets one for you, usually with a live ball for transition (very high value). A block might do that, but it might get put back or result in a foul or a bunch of other stuff... it only gains you a possession sometimes, and when it does, it's only a fast break a low percentage of the time. Sending it into Row G only for the opponent to take possession again (with a few fewer seconds now) is not worth a whole lot - except to the 'Gram.
Fair enough (though I wasn't listening to the Celtics feed yesterday, Scal didn't invent the stat). All-star level Green averaged more blocks per game and more steals per game than White by a decent margin, is the point. White doesn't have anywhere near good enough counting stats to have even a punchers chance at the all star game, prime draymond isn't a useful comp.
You are 100% correct. Steals > Blocks.
Scal just thought it was a "nice" story about White's dad posting the # of Derrick's blocks + steals (STOCK) on Twitter/X.
Papa White is proud of his son, & Scal just finds it funny/cute.
His Dad also recently started using the term STOCK Exchange to describe the combo for Jrue/Derrick backcourt.
More of a human interest story than anything analytical is how I took it at least
I would say that a block negates a high scoring probability opportunity for the other team, whereas the expected value of a possession for your team isn’t that high. Steals are still better, don’t get me wrong, but taking away a layup is quite valuable, too.
You also gain equity in future possessions by showing that there is resistance at the rim especially if you're an "intimidating" big man. White gains less equity here than say a big who deposits your shot into the 6th row.
DW has a special talent for the block from behind. It’s not frequent enough to get in people’s heads as they drive to the basket “I wonder if the Buffalo is coming behind me” but I’d like to think so.
Combining them is basically a simple model, rule of thumb type thing. It doesn't make mathematical sense to combine OBP and SLG either, but it is useful. I don't think it is an attempt to claim that they have equal value.
Obviously, as has been discussed, the offensive and defensive value of steals and blocks could be modeled more precisely, as can the value of getting on base and hitting for extra bases in baseball.
I love DW and his Ts% is among the league leaders for anyone who shoots as much as he does but I would say that he's the 2nd "best" player only if that word means "efficient". JT, JB, and KP open so much up for him. It's great that he constantly and efficiently takes advantage of the siruations and he deserves all the recognition he grts but IMO, he has not been the Cs 2nd "best" player.
His dad took that term from the fantasy basketball community, it’s been around for a bit. Steals and blocks are the two hardest stats to get that count in standard leagues. So it’s a term that is used when a player might not give you many points or boards, but provides value in the “stocks” categories.
I imagine STOCKS! is code for Great Defender, much like POINTZ! is code for Great Offender.
Rhyme time
Wow great comp!! Christie was often thought of a 2/3 or a "pure 2" but he actually was more of a 1 and played the point in college. He never really showed it in the NBA since he played with such pure 1's like Stoudamire and Bibby in that era where 1's were 1's. If he played today his game would be very similar to White's as a combo.
Another guy his game reminds me of it is, gulp......
Danny Ainge.
It’s not a perfect comp because their styles are different, but Lowry. A guy who took a bit to really break out, but was a big time winning player, awesome defensively, and advanced stats loved him, much like they always have White.
Agreed on all counts. Most of what White contributes, in switching and recognition, ball decisionmaking, shot and drive deterrence, etc isn't measured very well (except for the chasedown blocks). Someday we will have the stats sufficient to prove that he's an all star level player, but we don't today.
Wish they had an Availability Award though.
And "Stonks" is Steals + Bonks (personal fouls). Surely Marcus Smart leads the league in Stonks, at least over the last N years.I imagine STOCKS! is code for Great Defender, much like POINTZ! is code for Great Offender.
Rhyme time
