Derrick White, extends 4yrs/$125.9M

wade boggs chicken dinner

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White is playing 4 more mpg than last year (not nothing), but clearly Pritchard was the major recipient of swapping 2 guards (Smart/Brogdon) for 1 (Holiday). He's averaging 7 more mpg, which really doesn't show the whole picture since he had so many DNPs last year. It's more impactful to point out that he's already played more than twice as many minutes this year as last year (and unless I'm forgetting something, he was healthy all year).

I don't know if there's a way to see who was closing games last year, but IIRC White was in the closing lineup more often than not. Except for rare occasions, it was Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford. Moving Smart and Brogdon didn't change much there, I don't think.
A bit ago, I went back and watched some closing minutes from the MIA series and I was struck that the Cs generally played JT/JB/Al/Smart/MB. A couple of times I think GW was in there instead of MB. But no White.

NBA.com lets you sort by quarter. It's not the closing lineups but it's a proxy. Here are the mpg in the 4Q for the Cs during last year's playoffs:

79470
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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White gained a few minutes but the real benefit was that he was given the ball. Smart and Brogdan were both ball dominant and getting rid of them gave White the ball. Jrue has been amazing because he was willing to step back and do a little of everything.
Getting Jrue for MB/TL was also great because it replaced two guys who have injury history (and wouldn't be available right now if they were still on the Cs) with one guy who seems pretty durable.
 

benhogan

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A bit ago, I went back and watched some closing minutes from the MIA series and I was struck that the Cs generally played JT/JB/Al/Smart/MB. A couple of times I think GW was in there instead of MB. But no White.

NBA.com lets you sort by quarter. It's not the closing lineups but it's a proxy. Here are the mpg in the 4Q for the Cs during last year's playoffs:

View attachment 79470
nice work Wade

I imagine if you go back to the game thread the mouthbreathers were PO'd

Derrick averaged 23mpg over the first 3 games(when that series with Miami was lost) while shooting 9/16 from 3 :oops:
Excuse my French, but that's fukn criminal.
 

benhogan

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Derrick White has reached the 65-game criteria.
The Boston guard is now eligible for postseason honors. White was named All-NBA Defensive 2nd team in 2023.
He has 3 pending bonuses:
$250K: All-NBA Defensive (1st or 2nd)
$500K: 185+ 3-pointers made (currently 172)
$500K: 70+ games played

He reached the All-Defensive and games played bonus in 2023.

White is eligible to sign a four-year $123M extension in the offseason.
 

lovegtm

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sign me right up for $31M x 4 yrs! All the Wycbux!
That would be a bargain the day it was signed, if DWhite agrees to it. Even if Wyc starts to worry about his bux eventually, it's extremely tradeable as a very positive contract.

Given the 2nd apron restrictions on aggregation, extending Jrue and DWhite and using one or both of them later as a salary match/trade asset probably makes more sense than trading Jaylen at this point. Jaylen has gotten too good, too young, to be really tradeable now.
 

dhellers

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That would be a bargain the day it was signed, if DWhite agrees to it. Even if Wyc starts to worry about his bux eventually, it's extremely tradeable as a very positive contract.

Given the 2nd apron restrictions on aggregation, extending Jrue and DWhite and using one or both of them later as a salary match/trade asset probably makes more sense than trading Jaylen at this point. Jaylen has gotten too good, too young, to be really tradeable now.
Assuming the $$ aren't the problem, why would you want to trade anyone on this team? Of course, if they poop out in the playoffs you have to consider if something is missing, but until then the null should be "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Of course assuming $$ is not a problem is easier said then done. Hence a question: if the choice was between letting DW or JH walk, which one do you let go. At this point I value DW more -- youth and durability being the deciding factors.
 

lovegtm

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Assuming the $$ aren't the problem, why would you want to trade anyone on this team? Of course, if they poop out in the playoffs you have to consider if something is missing, but until then the null should be "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Of course assuming $$ is not a problem is easier said then done. Hence a question: if the choice was between letting DW or JH walk, which one do you let go. At this point I value DW more -- youth and durability being the deciding factors.
As Brad showed last summer, there are many reasons you might want to trade someone on the team, even someone well-liked and perceived as valuable.
 

lars10

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As Brad showed last summer, there are many reasons you might want to trade someone on the team, even someone well-liked and perceived as valuable.
Yeah.. but this years team is almost incomparable to last years in a lot of ways.. Sone of the players are the same but they’re all as good or better than last year’s version. I guess the only thing that’s always going to be a worry is KPs ankles.. hard to see, currently, where they can improve
 

lovegtm

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Yeah we are now potentially talking about one of the great teams in NBA history.
Definitely, and it's been my favorite season as a fan in a long time.

However, the greatest (regular season) team in history went out and got Kevin freaking Durant the very next year. Everyone always wants to upgrade, and so I don't think it's ever premature to think which salary slots and player value could enable that.
 

jayhoz

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Derrick White has reached the 65-game criteria.
The Boston guard is now eligible for postseason honors. White was named All-NBA Defensive 2nd team in 2023.
He has 3 pending bonuses:
$250K: All-NBA Defensive (1st or 2nd)
$500K: 185+ 3-pointers made (currently 172)
$500K: 70+ games played

He reached the All-Defensive and games played bonus in 2023.

White is eligible to sign a four-year $123M extension in the offseason.
He hit the 185+ made 3 pointer threshold last night.
 

bakahump

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"2023-24, That was the year I paid for the kids college, annnnnd got a championship"
 

lovegtm

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It's just a matter of whether he'll accept the ~$30M/yr extension or not at this point. Cs will offer it.

It's pretty clear that they are going to extend everyone they think is a value contract at their number, and then figure out the tax/apron situation once those extensions actually hit. I think very very strong chance Hauser gets extended, for this reason.

It's always better to trade a guy into Detroit/San Antonoio's space later for pick(s) than to lose him for nothing. This wasn't applicable in Grant's case, because the contract would have been for this season, with an immediate tax impact. Although even there, you could argue that it would have been better to match any reasonable RFA offer and trade into cap space pre-deadline. They didn't have to do a S&T, which is the only way Dallas could get to the salary number they did, as opposed to MLE.
 

lovegtm

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The more I think about it, DWhite would have to turn down a ton of money to extend this summer. Detroit or San Antonio would easily throw a 4 year near-max at him in summer 2025, no? The Spurs are probably a playoff team if they have him and developed Wemby, and Detroit could be too, if Cade/Duren development breaks right.
 

InstaFace

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The more I think about it, DWhite would have to turn down a ton of money to extend this summer. Detroit or San Antonio would easily throw a 4 year near-max at him in summer 2025, no? The Spurs are probably a playoff team if they have him and developed Wemby, and Detroit could be too, if Cade/Duren development breaks right.
How many teams out there would look at him as a max player, though? We see his value, but that's because his complementary skills are so apparent in an environment that we've got. He's not going to be a team's alpha scorer, and as a distributor he's pretty good but not flashy in the way that max PGs are. Board Man may get paid, but Tenacious D Man With Good Decisions does not necessarily get paid.

You can get a lot of guard talent at $30M / year, and at the 30%-max cap that he'll be eligible for, you can get all-NBA level players. Jalen Brunson came to NY for 4 years @ $26M. VanVleet to Houston for 3 yrs @ $43M (!) last year. Kemba came to us for 4 years @ $35M via S&T, after his first all-NBA campaign in 2019. James Harden was an FA last year, before the option shenanigans - would you max a 34yo Harden? Clippers might be about to. We might feel that passionately about Derrick White, but I think it'd be hard for an owner to sell him as their team's star or co-star as one of their only max deals. Tough for an agent to credibly advise him that a $40M+ max or near-max deal is out there if he waits it out till the next year.
 

lovegtm

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How many teams out there would look at him as a max player, though? We see his value, but that's because his complementary skills are so apparent in an environment that we've got. He's not going to be a team's alpha scorer, and as a distributor he's pretty good but not flashy in the way that max PGs are. Board Man may get paid, but Tenacious D Man With Good Decisions does not necessarily get paid.

You can get a lot of guard talent at $30M / year, and at the 30%-max cap that he'll be eligible for, you can get all-NBA level players. Jalen Brunson came to NY for 4 years @ $26M. VanVleet to Houston for 3 yrs @ $43M (!) last year. Kemba came to us for 4 years @ $35M via S&T, after his first all-NBA campaign in 2019. James Harden was an FA last year, before the option shenanigans - would you max a 34yo Harden? Clippers might be about to. We might feel that passionately about Derrick White, but I think it'd be hard for an owner to sell him as their team's star or co-star as one of their only max deals. Tough for an agent to credibly advise him that a $40M+ max or near-max deal is out there if he waits it out till the next year.
The FVV deal is indicative of what a "we need credibility" team will pay for a good guard, and the cap is only going up.

Usually bad teams don't even have guys who are worth throwing that money at. If one is available, they can pay him.

I don't think DWhite's value is much of a secret in the league anymore.
 

ManicCompression

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The FVV deal is indicative of what a "we need credibility" team will pay for a good guard, and the cap is only going up.

Usually bad teams don't even have guys who are worth throwing that money at. If one is available, they can pay him.

I don't think DWhite's value is much of a secret in the league anymore.
I think the difference there is that FVV signed a really short deal. Bad young teams have a different challenge in which all the young guys have to sign their own extensions on a timetable, so d white at 40 mil over 4 makes a young team exorbitantly expensive faster than normal.

So he could potentially get a 2-3 year deal at 40 a year, but the overall contract value from one of these young teams would probably be less than what the Celtics could extend him for.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Weird fact: White only has five 30+ point games in his NBA career, but his 2 highest scoring games (38 and 36 [with the Spurs]) have come in the playoffs. His other 3 (33, 30 and 30) are with Boston either last year or this year.
 

lovegtm

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For Brad Stevens, trading for DWhite was the equivalent of drafting an All-Star with the 25th pick. One of those out-of-nowhere moves that changes franchise trajectory significantly.
 

Eddie Jurak

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White finished 16th in the NBA in blocked shots. More blocks than Giannis and Bam, among many others. Also 16th in blocks per game, 24th in block percentage. Cleaning the glass puts White at the 100th percentile in blocks by a combo guard with a percentage of 1.8%. Al Horford, who had the same block percentage, rated at slightly above average for a center (55th percentile).
 

benhogan

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With KP out they should lean into more Derrick White shots & offensive initiation (G4). Get DW up over 40mpg with the 2nd most FGA. They'll need his shooting efficiency along with his ball security.

It's up to CJM to make this happen, since the JAYs will take it upon themselves to vacuum up those shots.
 

RorschachsMask

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With KP out they should lean into more Derrick White shots & offensive initiation (G4). Get DW up over 40mpg with the 2nd most FGA. They'll need his shooting efficiency along with his ball security.

It's up to CJM to make this happen, since the JAYs will take it upon themselves to vacuum up those shots.
Tatum ended with 9 shots lol, he hasn’t seemed too intent on taking anyone’s shots.

White is incredible.
 

radsoxfan

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I just hope the Jrue contract doesn't have any impact on our ability (or lack thereof) to keep White.

I think PP + some offseason pickup can replace most of what Jrue gives us more easily than we can replace White.

Let's hope we don't find out.
 

lovegtm

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I just hope the Jrue contract doesn't have any impact on our ability (or lack thereof) to keep White.

I think PP + some offseason pickup can replace most of what Jrue gives us more easily than we can replace White.

Let's hope we don't find out.
If White will agree to an extension (a huge if now), I imagine they lock him up and figure out who gets traded later. He's still under contract next season for a smaller number.

Any possibility some team goes crazy and offers him a max? His value is skyrocketing.
Not a FA until 2025, but I don't see how a team like San Antonio or Detroit wouldn't throw 4/170 or something at him then, barring injury/massive decline.

It's going to be tough to get him extended this summer, even though everyone is wishcasting it.
 

m0ckduck

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Remember, guys, he's not one of the NBA's top 100 players according to ESPN circa October. Maybe we could trade him + a 2nd to Charlotte and acquire that Grant Williams guy (#97).
 

benhogan

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If White will agree to an extension (a huge if now), I imagine they lock him up and figure out who gets traded later. He's still under contract next season for a smaller number.


Not a FA until 2025, but I don't see how a team like San Antonio or Detroit wouldn't throw 4/170 or something at him then, barring injury/massive decline.

It's going to be tough to get him extended this summer, even though everyone is wishcasting it.
Detroit will have used up all their cap on signing Tobias Harris, D'Angelo Russell, and Bruce Brown by then ;)

DW doesn't seem like the kind of guy that will turn down $123MM gtd to announce Brinks Trucks are making their way to his house in a year. BUT if he does he deserves it.

Funny to look back and see Derrick struggled to get minutes in the playoffs last season averaging 23mpg over G1, G2, & G3 against Miami.
 

lars10

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Detroit will have used up all their cap on signing Tobias Harris, D'Angelo Russell, and Bruce Brown by then ;)

DW doesn't seem like the kind of guy that will turn down $123MM gtd to announce Brinks Trucks are making their way to his house in a year. BUT if he does he deserves it.

Funny to look back and see Derrick struggled to get minutes in the playoffs last season averaging 23mpg over G1, G2, & G3 against Miami.
One of JMs worst coaching decisions.. it was clear to everyone that White needed to play more but JM was loyal to Smart to a fault.
 

Van Everyman

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One of JMs worst coaching decisions.. it was clear to everyone that White needed to play more but JM was loyal to Smart to a fault.
Ehh, it’s possible (likely?) the dynamic was more complicated than we know. Thankfully Brad took matters into his own hands to resolve it.
 

lexrageorge

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One of JMs worst coaching decisions.. it was clear to everyone that White needed to play more but JM was loyal to Smart to a fault.
I dunno, a rookie coach trying to earn credibility with a star-laden roster coming off a Finals victory is going to find it impossible to make the reigning DPOY 2nd fiddle to the new guy. And Coach Joe also had to work Brogdon into the rotation as well. And White got minutes once Brogdon got hurt against Miami.
 

InstaFace

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I dunno, a rookie coach trying to earn credibility with a star-laden roster coming off a Finals victory is going to find it impossible to make the reigning DPOY 2nd fiddle to the new guy. And Coach Joe also had to work Brogdon into the rotation as well. And White got minutes once Brogdon got hurt against Miami.
And he was a beloved local legend, too. Even Bill Belichick waited a year or two before benching and trading Bernie Kosar. I'm coming around to the position that the Smart dilemma was solved the only way it could be, or at the only level that it could be.

Although it's also true that White did start most playoff games that year, and his minutes went marginally up (28 to 29mpg) from the regular season to the playoffs. So the extent of his neglect may be a bit overplayed.
 

Justthetippett

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Ehh, it’s possible (likely?) the dynamic was more complicated than we know. Thankfully Brad took matters into his own hands to resolve it.
Yeah, I think regardless of what Joe did, the players would have had some issues to sort out among themselves. Marcus wasn't going to check himself into games (although he may have tried!) but he would have likely made a lot of noise. Brad solving this was one of his crowning achievements to date.
 

benhogan

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And he was a beloved local legend, too. Even Bill Belichick waited a year or two before benching and trading Bernie Kosar. I'm coming around to the position that the Smart dilemma was solved the only way it could be, or at the only level that it could be.

Although it's also true that White did start most playoff games that year, and his minutes went marginally up (28 to 29mpg) from the regular season to the playoffs. So the extent of his neglect may be a bit overplayed.
I only mentioned G1, G2, & G3 against Miami since those games were crushing to the Celtic's last season.

and I'm not blaming CJM. Smart was, for the 1,000,000X, the "Heart & Soul" of the Celtics, a local legend,* and the de-facto Captain. The counterpoint is Derrick did shoot 45.5% (50/110) from 3 in the playoffs last year and provided All-NBA defense all season long. People can make up their mind and I can see both sides of the argument.

When the season ended, Brad acted quickly by adding key players, with the Smart & Brogdon trades, while clearing the runway to see White's All-Star level ceiling. Clearly, Brad had a feeling, for a while, that White was this player.

The vast majority of this Board loved Smart, but completely understood what Brad was up to (maybe a handful of detractors), even though the NBA media was telling us something else.

Cellar 1
NBA Media 0

*not sure this has been mentioned but does the Smart trade have similar vibes to the Nomar trade?
better on many levels IMO
 

InstaFace

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Well, the Nomar Trade had a more immediate payoff, but I do sorta see the parallels. Nomar was a bigger star for the Sox than Smart had ever been for the Celtics though.
 

dhellers

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I just hope the Jrue contract doesn't have any impact on our ability (or lack thereof) to keep White.

I think PP + some offseason pickup can replace most of what Jrue gives us more easily than we can replace White.

Let's hope we don't find out.
After seeing the not-surprising fragility of KP, and DW's not-surprising brilliance, is it sensible to let KP walk in 2026, and use that 30m to help sign DW?

The only question about DW is how good would he be as a center of attention . If he got the kind of extra attention given to the Jays, how would he respond?

Its an unfair comparison, but Jordan Poole was useful as 4th banana, but the epitome of empty calories as a lead scorer. (Unfair because DW is damn good in all aspects of the game).
 

lovegtm

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After seeing the not-surprising fragility of KP, and DW's not-surprising brilliance, is it sensible to let KP walk in 2026, and use that 30m to help sign DW?

The only question about DW is how good would he be as a center of attention . If he got the kind of extra attention given to the Jays, how would he respond?

Its an unfair comparison, but Jordan Poole was useful as 4th banana, but the epitome of empty calories as a lead scorer. (Unfair because DW is damn good in all aspects of the game).
There are a lot of teams who have another guy who's the center of attention, and who could really use DWhite. Spurs with Wemby, Detroit with Cade, Atlanta with Trae....I'm sure I can find more.
 

Ed Hillel

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I think they’ll sign White and trade Brown in 2 years or so to shed the major salary. Wyc will eat a massive bill for a year or two.
 

lovegtm

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I think they’ll sign White and trade Brown in 2 years or so to shed the major salary. Wyc will eat a massive bill for a year or two.
This is the most likely scenario, but by signing DWhite, they'll have left themselves the flexibility to deal any combination of:
- JB
- DWhite
- Jrue
- KP
depending on who is performing well, what other teams' needs are, which other players on the roster develop, etc

I'd be shocked if one or more of those guys isn't dealt within 2 years.
 

benhogan

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I think they’ll sign White and trade Brown in 2 years or so to shed the major salary. Wyc will eat a massive bill for a year or two.
In 2 years I'd guess Tatum, Brown, White, KP-expiring along with team-friendly deals on PP, Hauser, Luke.

BUT I could see the trade yield on Brown being too massive for Brad to ignore at some point.

Tatum ended with 9 shots lol, he hasn’t seemed too intent on taking anyone’s shots.

White is incredible.
Tatum 16-points on 9 shots is a fantastic sign of growth.

I'd guess CJM leaned into a more pronounced role for Derrick White with KP out, which is the correct approach.