Copa Oro 2023: Better than a Non-league Summer Friendly, Sort of

thehitcat

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The right guy with the winner too. Carrasquillo was immense all game. Congrats @trekfan55 go do a couple laps of your neighborhood screaming your head off. You deserve a release.
 

trekfan55

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Looks like Mexico then.

Would like to exorcise that demon too. Hell, bring on Geiger too.
 

67YAZ

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Was it Jenny Chiu? I figured she'd be watching tonight.
Ha.

It was Christian Murillo. She works as a youth development coach for the Fire now.

There was a tornado warning earlier this evening, but after it blew through the weather was perfect. A friend called to see if I could fill in last minute since I live close and the storm kept a bunch of people home. I think players from like 4 different teams got together for this match.

Not sure if Murillo is a regular or was just around, but goddamn. She waltzed by my and scored a left footed, near post, upper 90 rocket. If I didn’t already drive a minivan & wear Costco pants, my ego would have been bruised. But it was fun to see real skill that close up.
 

McBride11

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Congrats @trekfan55. Hope yall take it home

Usa was completely outplayed. I cannot name one thing the USA did better. I cant even desribe what their offensive strategy was in this game, if they even had one. The Ferreira goal was mostly luck it seemed (great strike but that is not how that was drawn up).

Usa had some shiite PKs whereas Panama slammed most of them in the far corners, or at least more than halfway between Gk and post. The final one for Pan was gorgeous, Turner had no chance.


Edit - also the US coach looking like a suburban dad with his gray brooks brothers polo tucked into his levis sporting the white sneakers was just hilarious to me and my friend. Then you had the Panama coach in a lovely suit. I think Callaghan was anxious to hop in the minivan and get home to mow his lawn.
 

trekfan55

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Panama did play an excellent game. I missed most of the Tournament because I was in Israel and the time difference made it impossible. And the quarters vs Qatar were mostly on Shabat.

Looks like it pays off to keep the same coach after a WC Cycle.
 

InstaFace

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Ha.

It was Christian Murillo. She works as a youth development coach for the Fire now.

There was a tornado warning earlier this evening, but after it blew through the weather was perfect. A friend called to see if I could fill in last minute since I live close and the storm kept a bunch of people home. I think players from like 4 different teams got together for this match.

Not sure if Murillo is a regular or was just around, but goddamn. She waltzed by my and scored a left footed, near post, upper 90 rocket. If I didn’t already drive a minivan & wear Costco pants, my ego would have been bruised. But it was fun to see real skill that close up.
Fun story! According to fbref, she didn't play NWSL, but she did play in a women's world cup in 2015 so that's pretty cool. Started at CB vs Colombia (got a draw), subbed in late vs France (0-5 loss). ...OK Wiki says she was signed to the Red Stars reserves in 2019, but didn't play for the big team. But did play in Lithuania and made the Women's Champions League and started two matches against Barcelona at DM. Retired at 27 at the start of the pandemic. What a way to spend your 20s.

Either way I wouldn't want to be facing her with a bunch of beer leaguers on my side. But the handful of times I've played sports against someone numerous rungs above me on the ladder, it's just been great to watch them work. They just move differently than other humans.
 

trekfan55

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2-0 Mexico. Guess I can go to bed.

Surely most of you will join me rooting for Panama vs Mexico on Sunday right?
 

Zososoxfan

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I’m all set with Miazga. He looks like when you pick a tall guy because he’s tall and then he just sucks but at least he’s tall.
Agreed, he's just not good.

The problem with starting Cowell is they didn’t score and need to get one but now the only guy on the roster who could sub in and do something interesting is Cowell but he’s already gone.
He was a huge bright spot IMO. Modern futbol puts a huge value on a player like him who aggressively takes on defenders at speed at every opportunity, and he's a dogged presser too. Caught my eye for sure.

Love

Two things I know about Panama.

They have a great fucking canal, and they played a hell of a soccer game tonight.
[clappy emoji]

US fans after seeing El Tri waltz into the final.

View attachment 67382
Well played.

Fuerza Canaleros, y fuerza @trekfan55 !
 

rguilmar

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Big congrats @trekfan55. This isn’t the first time that Panama has outplayed and deservedly beaten the USMNT. I know you haven’t been able to watch much of this tournament, but they’ve looked really good throughout. Also, you have to be hopeful for WC26.

Just general USMNT thoughts:
The veteran CBs left a lot to be desired throughout the tournament, even Miles who i do like a lot. He’s not far removed from a long term injury, so he gets a pass for now. Long and Miazga just weren’t good. The Spanish language broadcasters said that they lack confidence on the ball, and the slow, conservative passing. Neal is showing a lot of promise, but he was hurt and has had some defensive issues (to be expected from such a young player). I’m cool with the Miazga and Long farewell tour though.
Both Reynolds and Jones showed some promise. I’m intrigued by the depth beyond the main 3 fullbacks.
None of the midfielders really showed a ton. Maybe Sands. Djordje had some flashes but went MIA too often. Busio worked hard but is just not it for me.
Ferreira is a very good soccer player. He’s somehow become the most divisive player in the player pool, which is getting ugly online. I’m not sold on him at the 9 but want to see him more withdrawn. I think he should continue to get looks.
Cowell impressed with his willingness to take players on, needs to work on the technical side. I so badly want Zendejas to play well, but he just wasn’t good. Possibly he was trying too hard, but probably time to let him focus on his club team.
Vazquez is the most likely player to star in a movie as a superhero. In soccer, he really needs to improve his hold up play. That’s been an ongoing thing for him, but will definitely determine how much (and if) he plays in Europe.
Appreciated the BJ said that he got the tactics wrong in the first half. Thanks for your service. Disappointed in myself for wanting Roldan on the field.
 

teddykgb

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Vazquez was an absolute butcher last night in ball retention and springing the counter attack. A few really obvious examples but pretty much nothing went right with the ball at his feet. May just be a bad day but he has no role in the international setup if he can’t be remarkably better at the basics of control and passing
 

InstaFace

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Once you take out the big-3 WC hosts, the only CONCACAF teams that have looked competitive have been Panama and Jamaica. And Jamaica, for all their glamour boys, plays like less than the sum of their parts (or they'd have won the USA game 3-1) and has a ticking clock to change that.

I don't know who's going to take the 6th slot for the confederation at the expanded WC (probably Costa Rica, maybe Guatemala) but it's either going to a team that miraculously put it all together in a hurry that we can't see coming today, or it's going to resemble a lifetime achievement award. No other country's football program seems to be developing elite-level talent or at least recruiting quality dual-nationals (c'mon Curacao and Suriname, get moving).

Panama reached their highest-ever Elo (1754, #29) during the 2013 Gold Cup, after the semifinal win over Mexico (2-1, for the second time that tournament!) and before the 1-0 loss to the USA in the final (Brek Shea!). For that tournament, their squad included:

- 2x VEN: MF Rolando Escobar and striker Gabriel Torres (who got a few trials with big-name UEFA teams, and probably would play in the Big 5 if he came up today)
- 2x COL: CB Roman Torres (captain) for Millonarios and MF Gabriel Gomez at Junior
- 2x URU: backup GK L. Mejia, and Cecilio Waterman who played against the USA last night
- 1x GUA: starting GK Penedo
- 1x SVK: MF Eybir Bonaga, at a mid-table Slovakian team
- 1x USA: 32yo Blas Perez played for FC Dallas
- 1x ESP: 20yo reserve striker Jairo Jimenez, on top-flight Elche's B-team
- 13x PAN: At least half the starters, and notably including CB Anibal Godoy, who of course has anchored the team forever including last night

So even at their peak, Panama never exactly had the cachet that got Big 5 teams to call them up, never produced a Keylor Navas or created the talent-development (and marketing) engine that the North American teams now have. Instead, then they relied on their domestic league being better than advertised, a number of players having solid CONMEBOL club careers, and their team being more than the sum of its parts from playing together more often (And, we must presume, coaching - then-coach Julio Valdes had had quite a career in the Big 5).

Today, their squad for this tournament has 6x UEFA (including GER-2 and POR-2, nothing fancy, +1 loanee), 8x CONMEBOL, 2x MLS (Godoy and Carrasquilla, +1 reserve), 1x Liga MX (MF Barcenas, who got 3 loans to the Segunda recently), 5x Central America (3 CRC + GUA + HON), and... 0 actual domestic players! Just MF Yaris on the books of a domestic club but loaned out to Spain.

So that's a dramatic shift in the domestic emphasis of the team. They've gone from a mostly-domestic squad with a few guys getting a chance in CONMEBOL, to a group getting to play in competitive leagues in both South America and Europe. And while they might not generally play anywhere super fancy or be part of transfer talk on Football Twitter, they're playing in competitive, professional leagues with good funding and support (Ecuador, Venezuela, which both rank below Costa Rica and Honduras).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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What is the new rule going into effect?
It's going to be a trial in some countries. It's the Arsene Wenger rule. Player is in an offside position only if his whole body is past the second last defender. (Actually -- it's billed as "whole body," but I think actually the rule is that some body part with which a goal legally can be scored needs to be level to or behind the second last defender to keep a player in onside position.)
 

Humphrey

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It's going to be a trial in some countries. It's the Arsene Wenger rule. Player is in an offside position only if his whole body is past the second last defender. (Actually -- it's billed as "whole body," but I think actually the rule is that some body part with which a goal legally can be scored needs to be level to or behind the second last defender to keep a player in onside position.)
Found it. Yes, you are right, including what I highlighted.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Found it. Yes, you are right, including what I highlighted.
Yeah, I think in most cases for a player running forward it will be the trailing foot or heel. The import of the legal-body-part requirement will probably be that if your arm is behind you as you run, it won’t keep you on.
 

Humphrey

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Yeah, I think in most cases for a player running forward it will be the trailing foot or heel. The import of the legal-body-part requirement will probably be that if your arm is behind you as you run, it won’t keep you on.
So I don't think you'll see this change at lower levels until spring of 2025, quite a ways off. High school perhaps a year later as they inexplicably have their own rule book.
 

rguilmar

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Judging by the anthems, Mexico is at home and Godoy is an intense player. Neither is a surprise.
 

rguilmar

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Panama are getting chances. Doesn’t look like this will be straightforward for Mexico.
 

rguilmar

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Jorge Sánchez with a beautiful move. Then he dives in the box. The ref gave him a warning but should’ve given him a card.
 

67YAZ

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Panama did well that half, but were trading numbers on the counter for defensive solidity. I suspect Mexico will start pushing hard for a goal soon and some good chances will open up for Panama. Gotta take one of those suckers.
 

Cellar-Door

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I am going to be so mad when West Ham signs Edson Alvarez and he gets torched every week. The Eredivisie must just have nobody with pace, becasue every time I see him on Mexico it's like watching a CB emergency deputized into midfield, big, slow and skill-free
 

trekfan55

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Checking in.

Taking my blood pressure meds now. We were all resigned when Mexico scored. Not so much again.
Also, that could have very well been called a Penalty vs Panama.

I feel a change is coming at halftime, Geiger in at ref. Half kidding.
 

67YAZ

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Ohhhh. His body was just pointed the wrong direction. But Panama have come out strong.
 

rguilmar

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Mexico can’t build through the midfield at all. The Univision announcers summarized it as Mexico has 3 CMs but look like they have 2, and Panama has 2 CMs playing like 3. Part of it is a function of Edson dropping as a CB in the buildup. But this ain’t your dad’s Mexico.
 

rguilmar

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He didn’t touch him but I don’t think you can review a yellow.
Edit: yellow given to Godoy instead and no red