Chavis Suspended 80 Games

sean1562

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is he even a prospect after this? he only had power, he has no position.
 

amh03

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He's issued a statement saying he would never intentionally take a banned substance, as reported on WBZ on the 6 o'clock news.
 

DeadlySplitter

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He's issued a statement saying he would never intentionally take a banned substance, as reported on WBZ on the 6 o'clock news.
As everyone who has done it says and ever will say.

You look at his numbers and any value he has may well have been steroid-boosted, after all.
 

sean1562

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He's issued a statement saying he would never intentionally take a banned substance, as reported on WBZ on the 6 o'clock news.
doesn't matter much in the end though, does it? pushes his development back at least a year, and throws his previous power numbers into question
 

DeadlySplitter

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This is the same substance Chris Colabello, aka AAA player turned one year wonder with the Blue Jays, got caught with
 

Marbleheader

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Oral Turinabol. Anabolic steroid. Serious old school East German stuff. Apparently the testing for this has dramatically improved over the past few years. So, likely AAAA guy looks for an extra edge and gets caught.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Sam Travis is our only depth now at 1B.
On the 40-man, yes. He was the only depth there before this suspension too.

Former big leaguer Mike Olt is at Portland. Josh Ockimey is as well, though he's currently on the DL (so was Chavis for what it's worth). It's not as though 1B is suddenly a big gaping hole in the organization.
 

Harry Hooper

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Can he play somewhere beyond the jurisdiction of MLB? Frontier League or Italy or Grebek's backyard?
 

sean1562

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im sure he can play somewhere, but for a prospect that literally only has power, this casts serious doubts on his long term future. i imagine this would drop him out of red sox top 10, let alone mlb top 100
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Can he play somewhere beyond the jurisdiction of MLB? Frontier League or Italy or Grebek's backyard?
Most national baseball leagues like Japan, Mexico, etc honor MLB suspensions. Independent leagues aren't obligated but generally do.

However, he's still under contract with the Red Sox organization so I imagine that if he plays anywhere without their permission, he'd be in violation of his deal. Probably not something he wants to do if he has any desire to play in MLB at some point.
 

curly2

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Sam Travis is our only depth now at 1B.
With Hanley the starter, Moreland the backup and Swihart getting at least a little work there in spring training, that shouldn't be a problem.

The bigger issue is that in a weak farm system, a top prospect may have been all a mirage, and has certainly lost his trade value.

The denial is comical considering the drug involved. A serious, East German steroid is not something that's going to show up in over-the-counter cold medicine.
 

Sampo Gida

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I have to imagine if Chavis was using last year he would have tested positive last year and been suspended. This drug lasts a long time in the body (weeks or months I forget) and is easily detected.

But if he could have went a whole year not getting caught one wonders how many are doing the same. Is getting caught the exception of is not getting caught the exception? In other words which is more statistically likely?

Players look just as strong as they did in the steroid era, maybe stronger. Maybe its just better training and for young kids w/o personal trainers that better training has a learning curve.

Must be hard for someone who has not had A paycheck since August to be suspended without pay although he probably will make more money working at McDonalds now.
 

mauf

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Chavis’s full statement (via Twitter, apologies to those who can’t see embedded tweets).

 

BoSoxLady

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There are supplements that don’t list Turinabol as an ingredient. The suspension is either a lab error or a supplement that he should have run by MLB. I know Michael. He’s deeply religious. He would not cheat. He’s crushed. I believe him.
 

thestardawg

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The world is full of deeply religious people who have made bad decisions.

Chavis was trending as a first round bust, who had a miraculous power year last year after showing zero signs of being a productive player in the previous years.

I'd be shocked if he didn't know.
 

johnnywayback

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Fascinated by the level of enmity towards a guy on people’s favorite team who seems like a good kid. It’s disappointing that this happened, and it hurts his value as a trade chip this summer, but, no, he’s not going to drop out of the Sox top 10, and, yes, there are plenty of ways he could have tested positive without intending to cheat. Yeesh.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I don't think being skeptical* of his denial necessarily indicates a "level of enmity", more like just realism (some might say cynicism; potayto, potahto) about human nature. And I agree that his religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with it.

It's a sad story, whether he's telling the truth or not. Which we will probably never know.

*Clarity edit: by "skeptical" I don't mean "believing that he's lying." I just mean "not taking it for granted that he's telling the truth."
 

BoSoxLady

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Religious people don't cheat? Interesting.
Sure they do but he’d be committing a sin and it would make him a hypocrite. I’m not naive but this kid preaches.
 

chrisfont9

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The world is full of deeply religious people who have made bad decisions.

Chavis was trending as a first round bust, who had a miraculous power year last year after showing zero signs of being a productive player in the previous years.

I'd be shocked if he didn't know.
Personally I'm torn. It seems unfathomably stupid to just load up on a steroid that stays in the system so long, something an MLB high draft pick would be too sophisticated to just go out and do. The only logical conclusions are that testing is spotty so he ran what he thought was a reasonable risk, or he got a contaminated supplement. In the former case, if you told me that testing is bad and the sport is riven with steroid cheats, I guess I wouldn't be shocked. Surprised, though. And even in the tainted supplement case, if he was using supplements that were not on a list confirmed as safe to use, then it was a sloppy move on his part.
 

Rasputin

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Supplements aren't regulated by the FDA or anyone else and they routinely have ingredients that only remotely resemble what they claim to have.
 

StuckOnYouk

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I admit that maybe I'm a sucker but after reading his apology I tend to think it was some kind of accident and he didn't intentionally do anything wrong. If he did, then he's one hell of a liar.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Supplements aren't regulated by the FDA or anyone else and they routinely have ingredients that only remotely resemble what they claim to have.
And in his apology he claims he has searched for an answer as to how he could have tested positive but may never know. If it was a secret ingredient in a supplement he was taking, then he would know the answer because I’m sure he’d have turned over the supplements to try to explain how it’s a misunderstanding. So basically, he’s blaming it on a false test.
 

curly2

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Fascinated by the level of enmity towards a guy on people’s favorite team who seems like a good kid. It’s disappointing that this happened, and it hurts his value as a trade chip this summer, but, no, he’s not going to drop out of the Sox top 10, and, yes, there are plenty of ways he could have tested positive without intending to cheat. Yeesh.
No enmity intended in my post. I hope BSL is right and that he didn't do it.

The thing that struck me as hard to swallow is that he said he's been trying to figure out for months how it happened. If it was from a supplement, it would seem like it would be easy to pin down.

On a related topic, it would seem as if MLB and MiLB should find a reputable company and come up with the "official" protein supplement of baseball -- one that's regularly and thoroughly scrutinized for its ingredients -- so that anybody who tests positive can't put the blame on a supplement.
 

MikeM

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Supplements aren't regulated by the FDA or anyone else and they routinely have ingredients that only remotely resemble what they claim to have.
This is true on the surface, and why it's always the go-to explanation people use in the immediate aftermath of getting popped. The devil however is usually found in the details and a greater understanding of what it is they were allegedly taking.

For starters, oral Tbol by itself in a normal cycling dose already produces a mild enough effect as far as steroids go, and is even somewhat easy to under dose to no real effect. So the hypothetical scenario where a supplement company is making the effort at putting trace amounts of it (which is going to provide absolutely no benefit to their product, except to up the base cost on their end) doesn't really add up. Plus in those somewhat unique event when they are finding it as an unlisted ingredient in a large enough dose to be worthwhile, it's never in somebody's Mega Man multivitamin, Optimum Whey protein powder, or their C4 pre-workout. It's going to be a relatively edgy/shady company who is almost always pitching that product around a "Legal Steroids!" platform.

On that note, color me *extremely* skeptical that a cycle of tbol by itself would really have that much of a substance effect on a guy's ability to hit a baseball btw. Much less completely account for Chavis' turn around season last year. The strength gains over what I'm guessing is a relatively shorter period of time, which has to potentially beat what I believe is currently estimated at one random drug test an offseason for 40 man guys, just aren't that sick or game changing without stacking it with something like a Test injectable.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Not questioning your analysis, but would ask for your expertise. Posts like that carry a lot more weight with some credentials behind them. I’m a novice/bystander but I tend to agree with your statement. I like to see people with the nuts weigh in and comment on this kind of thing so that these things don’t spiral. Much like Radsox or Drs on orthopedic stuff or a hundred others on different topics. Background makes sprawling threads tighten up and speculation to minimize.
 

Sampo Gida

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He signed for $1.87M.
After taxes thats probably 1 million left. Probably handed over a chunk to his parents. Maybe lived high for a bit hence the poor start to his career. Over 3 years I imagine thats pretty much gone and he has to watch his pennies and getting more motivated to make some money
 

MikeM

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Not questioning your analysis, but would ask for your expertise. Posts like that carry a lot more weight with some credentials behind them. I’m a novice/bystander but I tend to agree with your statement. I like to see people with the nuts weigh in and comment on this kind of thing so that these things don’t spiral. Much like Radsox or Drs on orthopedic stuff or a hundred others on different topics. Background makes sprawling threads tighten up and speculation to minimize.
I wouldn't consider it an area of expertise by any means, especially as I've gotten older and aged away from keeping daily tabs on this stuff (or what is the latest/greatest methods people are using nowadays to stay ahead of drug testing for that matter). I did spend my entire 20s and early 30s doing regular field research on the subject matter though, and have firsthand experience with the substance in question as both a former bodybuilder enthusiast and somebody who dabbled around in a fair amount of personal training for probably half of that time period.
 

Marciano490

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I wouldn't consider it an area of expertise by any means, especially as I've gotten older and aged away from keeping daily tabs on this stuff (or what is the latest/greatest methods people are using nowadays to stay ahead of drug testing for that matter). I did spend my entire 20s and early 30s doing regular field research on the subject matter though, and have firsthand experience with the substance in question as both a former bodybuilder enthusiast and somebody who dabbled around in a fair amount of personal training for probably half of that time period.
I don’t think anyone ever runs orals without an injectable test under it, do they?

I’m always skeptical of these claims; I think there are enough hotlines and resources to test products, and with everything at stake and all the times people have grabbed for this excuse, you’d think professional athletes would take advantage.
 

Sampo Gida

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Interesting related article on how Turinabol turned up in US sold supplements

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/sports/baseball/turinabol-dopers-new-drug-is-an-old-one-used-by-east-germany.html

Its also curious why Chavis did not mention supplements as a possible reason. Not every batch would be contaminated and he probably disposes old packaging so nobody can prove it was not from a supplement, even if it would not help him

That may be to his credit though.

I'll give him the benefit the doubt just like so many have given Papi the same. We will never know for sure
 

MikeM

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I don’t think anyone ever runs orals without an injectable test under it, do they?
Nobody I know that took an even somewhat educated approach to taking steroids and wanted to make some legitimate gains.

I mean at the core I guess I can understand some of the surface appeal of tbol here for these minor leaguers getting popped taking it. Especially after factoring in the effect being on-cycle can have on somebody from a mental and everyday lifestyle pov (which I'd honestly go as far as to suggest might play the bigger role in these "breakouts" of hitters who already had the base talent to begin with, but that's a different debate). Cheaper, no bloat, less notable side effects, pisses out faster then a lot of other stuff, and some people ultimately just aren't comfortable going the needle route. Especially when you take the needle idea off paper and actually put it in perspective of a 21yo with a syringe in their hand for the first time, not wanting anybody else to know and trying to ideally stick themselves from behind at what can be an awkward angle.

But still, it really doesn't add up as anything but a fairly dumb risk choice imo. It might be 2 weeks before that tbol even kicks in, so at a fairly conservative non-liver killing 4 weeks after that for mild gain allowance, you are still looking at 9 week totals after running a bare minimum (3 additional weeks) post cycle therapy. Which while clean bulked might put 10lbs on. That is ultimately risking a lot for so little.
 

Reverend

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After taxes thats probably 1 million left. Probably handed over a chunk to his parents. Maybe lived high for a bit hence the poor start to his career. Over 3 years I imagine thats pretty much gone and he has to watch his pennies and getting more motivated to make some money
 

shaggydog2000

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No enmity intended in my post. I hope BSL is right and that he didn't do it.

The thing that struck me as hard to swallow is that he said he's been trying to figure out for months how it happened. If it was from a supplement, it would seem like it would be easy to pin down.

On a related topic, it would seem as if MLB and MiLB should find a reputable company and come up with the "official" protein supplement of baseball -- one that's regularly and thoroughly scrutinized for its ingredients -- so that anybody who tests positive can't put the blame on a supplement.
This company works with the MLBPA to certify supplements:

http://www.nsfsport.com/certified-products/

The spiked supplement excuse doesn't carry water any more, although it is the fall back for athletes that get caught.
 

biollante

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Can this stuff be in my multi-vitamins ? I am getting ready to play my kids in whiffle ball and need a boost. I don't see how it is possible that this stuff could end up in supplements, unless it was East German supplements.
 

Average Reds

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I'll give him the benefit the doubt just like so many have given Papi the same. We will never know for sure
First, no one deserves the benefit of the doubt. Players are all pushing the edge and blurring the distinction between what is a PED and what is an acceptable supplement and management is urging them on. When one of them is "caught," that doesn't make them a bad person relative to other players. It means that they were either careless about what they put in their body or that just aren't good enough and needed extra help.

Second, this really isn't anything like the situation with Ortiz. Feels strange that I need to point that out, but there you have it.
 

Byrdbrain

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After taxes thats probably 1 million left. Probably handed over a chunk to his parents. Maybe lived high for a bit hence the poor start to his career. Over 3 years I imagine thats pretty much gone and he has to watch his pennies and getting more motivated to make some money
You are making some pretty serious assumptions here based on exactly nothing.