Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

soxin6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
7,040
Huntington Beach, CA
I get what you are saying about Tatum but he should feel bad about this series. Fairly or not, he didn't get it done.

The way this ideally works is that he will be labeled with whatever all the chattering masses choose and then he internalizes that and comes prepared to steal souls next year and beyond.

Or maybe he proves his critics right. I am betting on him.
I am hoping that he takes this off season and works on his game and comes out even better next season. Tatum looked tired. He played a lot of minutes in the playoffs, during the season, and played with the Olympic team last summer. Maybe it all finally caught up with him, but he needs to find a way to bounce back and prove the critics wrong.
 

bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
20,618
St. Louis, MO
Poor Tatum series
Poor bench performance
Egregious turnover totals
Inability to finish at the rim

Those were the big 4.

and were 4-5 mins from being up 3-1.

Just be thankful Butler pulled up for 3 and missed. This is a picnic compared to that pain.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
27,579
Newton
This Celtics team had a ton of talent and heart. What they didn’t have was any gas left in the tank. We talk a lot about how incredibly they played since January – what we don’t talk about is what it took to get to that point.

I’ve said it on these boards a few times now but this team completely overhauled their system, with their switching defense move scheme and, particularly, the playmaking of Tatum and (to a lesser extent) Brown. It took a lot of failure—and a ton of minutes—to get it right. Posters regularly killed Ime in the first half of the season for playing the starters too many minutes. It wasn’t a mistake – it was a necessity, to get the guys to buy in and really understand the system intrinsically. And to turn Tatum into a superstar.

And it worked. The team was far and away the best in the NBA for the longest stretch this season. Tatum took the leap. Brown and him worked extremely well together. The defense was ridiculously good.

But it also came at a cost. Some players got hurt (Rob), others wore down (Tatum, Horford). It also meant Ime couldn’t develop his bench the same way – guys like Pritchard got no run until the final weeks of the season. Neismith got almost no run at all.

I mean, just look at this:

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1537648843206144006?s=21&t=NhKZdx7JV4837juBL_fs4Q


And that’s, I think, why they started to fade in the playoffs. They probably should’ve beaten the Bucks in 5 or 6 and the Heat in the same. But they were clearly exhausted at certain points, as early as midway through the Bucks series – guys were tired and the bench couldn’t be relied upon to really deliver for long stretches.

All that said, I’m super optimistic about this team. His tired Finals notwithstanding, Tatum took the leap and will be hungry for more. Brown is an incredible 1B who can also take over for long stretches. Smart is DPOY. Al is great and will be giving more minutes to Grant. If Rob can get healthy, I think they are the unquestioned favorites next year. Even if he doesn’t, I think they’re up there. And it’s going to get better from here. Because now the team can just execute the system and not have to learn it on the fly. And it’s a good fucking system with good fucking pieces.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Sep 9, 2006
8,101
SS Botany Bay
Do you see much value in ring chasers? Would a marginal upgrade over Pritchard have been helpful in his 10 minutes a game? Yes. Would it have made the difference? I don't think so. We need an upgrade over Smart or White or Horford or someone who was playing 20-30 minutes a night. I don't think we get that from a ring chaser.
This is how the 2008 title team got Posey, who was absolutely a difference maker.

The team needs a real PG, and Smart ain't it. White and Horford are fine. Horford needs a better backup, and White is fine in the proper role, rather than what they elevated him to in these playoffs. The ring chasers give you better depth that a team otherwise cannot afford, they have the skill and experience not to get made to look foolish like Pritchard (who I like, but still).
 

bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
20,618
St. Louis, MO
They probably played 3 extra games against MIL/MIA they shouldn’t have and it got them.

Great season, but need to proactive. Milwaukee will be tough and I expect Beale or Mitchell to land in Miami. Go get better.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,786
This is how the 2008 title team got Posey, who was absolutely a difference maker.

The team needs a real PG, and Smart ain't it. White and Horford are fine. Horford needs a better backup, and White is fine in the proper role, rather than what they elevated him to in these playoffs. The ring chasers give you better depth that a team otherwise cannot afford, they have the skill and experience not to get made to look foolish like Pritchard (who I like, but still).
Honestly a guy like Posey to take the defensive load off Tatum will have a bigger impact as it will free up Tatum to carry the offensive load. Much like prime Pierce this team's offense will run better with guards doing nothing more than handing him the ball in the frontcourt. They don't need a ball dominant guard. They need a long 6'8" guy that can play lockdown D and drain open treys.
 

Silverdude2167

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Oct 9, 2006
4,755
Amstredam
Man just so disappointing. 5 minutes from up 3-1 to losing in 6. They will be back next year, but you hate to mis opportunities, especially with the East being so good.

I'm just bitter now, but flip the paths GS and the C's have to take and I don't think GS is even in the finals.
 

reggiecleveland

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Mar 5, 2004
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They probably should’ve beaten the Bucks in 5 or 6 and the Heat in the same.
But they didn't, showing the same frustrating trend of not being ready, and not delivering when they had the series in hand. The Warriors were too good for that type of lapse. Shoulda coulda. This team had to finih a few minutes to be up 3-1. Thye seemed a way better team than the Heat and were a bit lucky to even survive that series.

Tatum took the leap and will be hungry for more.
I think he is a bit of a strange dude. Was bad for almost half a year. I worry when he isn't hitting 3s if he can still score. Too often I hear the dredded S word when I talk to hoops guys about him
He didn't seem mentally or physically tough too often.

Brown is an incredible 1B who can also take over for long stretches.
Agreed. He is much tougher than Tatum. He is not nearly as talented, but is much more aggressive and just keeps playing. He makes mistakes, but they are usually from being aggressive.

Smart is DPOY.
Yeah, he sucked tonight, but he had a fantastic year. Not sure he can do it again.

Al is great and will be giving more minutes to Grant.
He had some great games, but he isn't great. He played his ass off, but if isn't making 3s he is almost useless on O. A real warrior and a great leader, but he looked his age this series. If he could score on Curry down low they maybe win the whole thing. That was the big story, he was nonexistent in the paint on O. There was zero risk for the Warriors to switch Curry off onto the Cs 5.

If Rob can get healthy,

LOL
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,829
Celtics were +7 with Smart on the court tonight & -20 with him off. He was not the problem.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
Feel the same way I felt about the Sox last year. Didn’t expect much from the season/playoffs, but sad to see a run end like this because it doesn’t feel like a team that will necessarily have an easy and consistent road back.
 

bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
20,618
St. Louis, MO
Feel the same way I felt about the Sox last year. Didn’t expect much from the season/playoffs, but sad to see a run end like this because it doesn’t feel like a team that will necessarily have an easy and consistent road back.
They have a pretty lengthy window. Should get at least a couple more bites at the apple.
 

LesterFan

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Dec 12, 2010
15,225
Boston, MA
This hurts. Up 2-1 with Game 4 at home and they blew it. 55 turnovers the last 3 games is just unbelievable. They'll be back in the postseason for sure, but who knows when or if they'll get back to the Finals. The East won't be getting any easier any time soon and as always you're one key injury away from derailing your season. I just hope in a couple years we're not looking back at this season as the one chance they had and didn't get it done. And I feel for Tatum. He looked completely defeated in his conference and this will hang over him for a while.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,435
Unless I'm forgetting someone the last star players to win anything at Tatum's age or younger were Duncan and Kobe, and they had Robinson and Shaq.

Lebron didn't win until 27 when he had a super team. Curry didn't win until he was 26. Durant was 28 also on a super team. It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise that Tatum struggled in his first finals at 24, especially assuming he was playing at least somewhat hurt and getting little help.
 

bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
20,618
St. Louis, MO
Unless I'm forgetting someone the last star players to win anything at Tatum's age or younger were Duncan and Kobe, and they had Robinson and Shaq.

Lebron didn't win until 27 when he had a super team. Curry didn't win until he was 26. Durant was 28 also on a super team. It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise that Tatum struggled in his first finals at 24, especially assuming he was playing at least somewhat hurt and getting little help.
All true. But it’s also true that was probably the worst Finals performance ever by a first team all NBA player.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jan 31, 2006
12,096
around the way
All true. But it’s also true that was probably the worst Finals performance ever by a first team all NBA player.
This is the very definition of harping on the negative. If this team rolled over against Milwaukee or Miami, would you feel any better about it? Is anyone going to spend the offseason knocking the balls of Kyrie, KD, or Embiid? Giannis or Jokic?

Tatum went through top five players to get to the sixth game of the finals.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,435
This is the very definition of harping on the negative. If this team rolled over against Milwaukee or Miami, would you feel any better about it? Is anyone going to spend the offseason knocking the balls of Kyrie, KD, or Embiid? Giannis or Jokic?

Tatum went through top five players to get to the sixth game of the finals.
Yeah, he clowned Durant. Had a big series against Giannis including out dueling him in a must win road game 6. Went toe to toe with Butler.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Dec 24, 2002
49,851
I'm framing my thinking this way. This team went from looking like an extra from season 108 of The Walking Dead in early January to game six of the NBA finals five months later. What's done is done but that outcome was far beyond my ceiling for the team earlier this year.

Looking forward, more improvement is likely all the way around. Stevens seems to have a deft touch in terms of building around the core. They saw what we saw so help will be coming in some form - my hope is for another distributor/bucket getter and as many wings as they can find. Udoka is a very good coach and is likely to be even better with more seasoning.

Or maybe it all unravels, but I highly doubt it. My base case is that this core has several more deep playoff runs in them in the next few years.
 

m0ckduck

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Jul 20, 2005
1,987
I might be in the minority, but I think the Celtics team we saw against Brooklyn and Milwaukee would have won this series in 6 or 7 *. I'm for running it back, trusting in continuity and the natural improvement of young players. I don't think you reach the Finals with a young, banged-up roster and conclude after losing in 6 that the starting point guard needs to go (unless that PG is, say, Matt Maloney). Yes, they should upgrade the role players and— sure– kick the tires on more dramatic improvements. But bringing in a new playmaking PG likely causes as many new leaks in the boat (defense and chemistry) as are plugged by moving on from Smart's limitations as a facilitator.

One addition I'd like to see off the bench is that Toni Kukoc-type player— like what Goran Dragic gave the Nets off the bench in the playoffs. Veteran role player who can add offense and create his own shot in a limited capacity when the Jays are resting or one of them is struggling. (In 2024, maybe that's Gordon Hayward, depending on how his career trajectory plays out...)

* Edit: meaning, we would have beaten GSW had we played them in round 2.
 
Last edited:

Devizier

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Jul 3, 2000
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Seems to me that the Warriors got healthy and turned it on just in time. Celtics need depth, just looked gassed. Hard to watch. But damn, that was a great run. Get ‘em next year.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,955
Santa Monica
This Celtics team had a ton of talent and heart. What they didn’t have was any gas left in the tank. We talk a lot about how incredibly they played since January – what we don’t talk about is what it took to get to that point.

I’ve said it on these boards a few times now but this team completely overhauled their system, with their switching defense move scheme and, particularly, the playmaking of Tatum and (to a lesser extent) Brown. It took a lot of failure—and a ton of minutes—to get it right. Posters regularly killed Ime in the first half of the season for playing the starters too many minutes. It wasn’t a mistake – it was a necessity, to get the guys to buy in and really understand the system intrinsically. And to turn Tatum into a superstar.

And it worked. The team was far and away the best in the NBA for the longest stretch this season. Tatum took the leap. Brown and him worked extremely well together. The defense was ridiculously good.

But it also came at a cost. Some players got hurt (Rob), others wore down (Tatum, Horford). It also meant Ime couldn’t develop his bench the same way – guys like Pritchard got no run until the final weeks of the season. Neismith got almost no run at all.

I mean, just look at this:

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1537648843206144006?s=21&t=NhKZdx7JV4837juBL_fs4Q


And that’s, I think, why they started to fade in the playoffs. They probably should’ve beaten the Bucks in 5 or 6 and the Heat in the same. But they were clearly exhausted at certain points, as early as midway through the Bucks series – guys were tired and the bench couldn’t be relied upon to really deliver for long stretches.

All that said, I’m super optimistic about this team. His tired Finals notwithstanding, Tatum took the leap and will be hungry for more. Brown is an incredible 1B who can also take over for long stretches. Smart is DPOY. Al is great and will be giving more minutes to Grant. If Rob can get healthy, I think they are the unquestioned favorites next year. Even if he doesn’t, I think they’re up there. And it’s going to get better from here. Because now the team can just execute the system and not have to learn it on the fly. And it’s a good fucking system with good fucking pieces.
+1... Boston will run it back with some minor tweaks and get the benefit of Tatum, Brown, TL, Grant, PP potential age/experience improvement + a full season of White integration.

Memphis & the Mavs stepped up and will be future Western beasts. Denver/Pels could get healthy and be more involved. Phoenix will be back. GSW has some developing youngsters and Steph is ageless...The West will be much tougher next season (although the Flakers are toast)

The Nets got swept & the KD/Ky train will weather. Harden will torch Embiid's prime years. Heat will be good but Butler/Lowry should tick lower. Hawks are in the midst of a fire sale. The Raptors will be tougher.
BUT the East feels like Milwaukee and Boston for the next few seasons.

The game thread was completely hyperventilating, with threats of dealing Smart. Tatum overrated. Must add 3rd scorer to the bench. But far and away my favorite stupid post was unloading White at the cost of a first o_O

Luckily most of the unhinged moronic takes stay on game-day threads.
 
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128

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May 4, 2019
10,321
Jesus guys, this team just got to game 6 of the finals against an experienced team with 3 titles already and one of the best players (not just shooters) in the history of Earth. We're looking to dismantle the team? Seems like a few upgrades here and there a bit more internal growth might be what's needed.

Kudos to Golden State for keeping up the pressure the last 2 games. Maintaining this level wasn't something that I saw coming, especially defensively. Congrats to @Sam Ray Not for the win, being right about Wiggins (holy fuck is he a 2-way menace).

Once Thompson woke up, we were in deep shit.
Great point about Klay. He didn't shoot well last nite, but the shots he hit were timely, and he had a fantastic series.

Also: Draymond was terrific last nite in every aspect of the game. The C's could have used another off night from him.
 
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lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
13,412
As do most here, I vividly remember the late 90s-2004 Red Sox vs. Yankees era. It was one of the most compelling ongoing storylines in baseball history, and just an incredible time to be a fan, even though it was extremely painful right up until the end.

And then the title happened, it was over, and that energy never came back. I would have thought that the title was the thing, and it certainly was amazingly cathartic. But it was still over.

This is a very specific, and special, era of the Celtics. The Nets trade was the start of it for those who enjoy teambuilding, and it really started during the 2017 IT run. Since then, there's been a direct narrative line running through to the team today.

That line is still intact. It's an awful emotional roller coaster ride, to the point that it's sometimes hard for me to watch the games...but it's compelling.

I don't know how long this will last, but it's still going, and I'm not taking it for granted. Of course I want a championship, but be careful what you wish for, and enjoy the ride.
 

lexrageorge

Member
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Jul 31, 2007
18,529
Great season; disappointing ending. Biggest concern is how long it takes them to get back to this point again. Being a team that perennially makes it to the ECF but falls short would be seen as failure, fair or not.

The Warriors were able to focus their entire defensive efforts in containing Tatum and Brown, daring the other players to beat them. Celtics left too many possessions on the floor as a result, either in turnovers or missed shots. Proof of fatigue caused by too many minutes over the course of the season and playoffs.

Upgrading the rotation players on the bench is a must item. They cannot count on organic growth from White, Pritchard, Theis, or Grant Williams, and only White was somewhat effective. Moving the latter 3 a couple of spots down the rotation would be a big help.

The Tatum narrative is going to suck until next year's playoffs. Just remember that he will win a title the instant he leaves Boston if it comes to that.

It will be interesting to see if Stevens is able to do anything with that $17M trade exception before it expires early July.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,955
Santa Monica
Jesus guys, this team just got to game 6 of the finals against an experienced team with 3 titles already and one of the best players (not just shooters) in the history of Earth. We're looking to dismantle the team? Seems like a few upgrades here and there a bit more internal growth might be what's needed.

Kudos to Golden State for keeping up the pressure the last 2 games. Maintaining this level wasn't something that I saw coming, especially defensively. Congrats to @Sam Ray Not for the win, being right about Wiggins (holy fuck is he a 2-way menace).

Once Thompson woke up, we were in deep shit.

Good season. Looking forward to the next.
Yep congrats to @Sam Ray Not and winning it with a "washed" superstar
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,736
People comparing GSW role players to BOS's role players seem to ignore that (1) GSW is paying a lot more in salary than BOS is (GSW has 4 guys making over $20M; BOS has 3) and (2) GSW's role players look a lot better because Curry proved to be unguardable 1 on 1.

TL's injury really hurt last night.

Will be interested in seeing what POBOBS does with the Fourmier trade exception. Also hoping White hires a shot coach over the summer.
 

Batman Likes The Sox

Not postscient
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2003
2,537
Madison, CT
This Celtics team had a ton of talent and heart. What they didn’t have was any gas left in the tank. We talk a lot about how incredibly they played since January – what we don’t talk about is what it took to get to that point.

I’ve said it on these boards a few times now but this team completely overhauled their system, with their switching defense move scheme and, particularly, the playmaking of Tatum and (to a lesser extent) Brown. It took a lot of failure—and a ton of minutes—to get it right. Posters regularly killed Ime in the first half of the season for playing the starters too many minutes. It wasn’t a mistake – it was a necessity, to get the guys to buy in and really understand the system intrinsically. And to turn Tatum into a superstar.

And it worked. The team was far and away the best in the NBA for the longest stretch this season. Tatum took the leap. Brown and him worked extremely well together. The defense was ridiculously good.

But it also came at a cost. Some players got hurt (Rob), others wore down (Tatum, Horford). It also meant Ime couldn’t develop his bench the same way – guys like Pritchard got no run until the final weeks of the season. Neismith got almost no run at all.

I mean, just look at this:

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1537648843206144006?s=21&t=NhKZdx7JV4837juBL_fs4Q


And that’s, I think, why they started to fade in the playoffs. They probably should’ve beaten the Bucks in 5 or 6 and the Heat in the same. But they were clearly exhausted at certain points, as early as midway through the Bucks series – guys were tired and the bench couldn’t be relied upon to really deliver for long stretches.

All that said, I’m super optimistic about this team. His tired Finals notwithstanding, Tatum took the leap and will be hungry for more. Brown is an incredible 1B who can also take over for long stretches. Smart is DPOY. Al is great and will be giving more minutes to Grant. If Rob can get healthy, I think they are the unquestioned favorites next year. Even if he doesn’t, I think they’re up there. And it’s going to get better from here. Because now the team can just execute the system and not have to learn it on the fly. And it’s a good fucking system with good fucking pieces.
This entire post needs more love though I don't think it will get much this morning. This is exactly where I am. Maybe not the unquestioned favorites -- depends on who is healthy on other teams like GSW as well, but NOBODY would choose to face this squad if healthier next year in the playoffs and if they don't have to exhaust themselves all second half of the year to get to a reasonable regular season record.

Plenty of cynics out there who watched the whole season with us. I respect that, and I just don't see it this way. We're talking about an extremely young team here with a first year coach who won the ECF and two finals games.

Plenty of latecomers out there or maybe folks who are irrationally upset who will say things that demonstrate their complete lack of knowledge (for example, the many calls in here to trade the DPOY). No respect for that.

This will sound crass, I know, but last night was probably the first time I actively thought to myself "I wish Kobe was still alive" because I think his guidance off the court between games might have helped Tatum. Shoulder injury and suffocating defense might have won out anyway, but I'd like to be in a universe where at least that kind of mentoring was possible. People really like Tatum in the NBA, clearly, maybe more than they like anyone else on the Celtics, and maybe because they know what kind of star he might be over the next decade. When he got that dunk and hung on the rim last night, Draymond, of all people, kind of protected him landing and they gave each other a respectful tap on the back after he was down. A lot of that respect in the post-series hugs as well throughout the ECF march (maybe last night too, I didn't stay up past the 0:00).

Brown, Smart, and R.Williams are three exciting players. Any team would kill to have any one of them. That's four killers on a team returning next year.

How they round out the rest of the team and find the right sixth man is big going forward. Would LOVE to see them focus on getting another veteran in here like Horford that can amplify the winning mentality. That's my main wish for next year. Can't wait for game one of the season.

And one last thing - there was a lot of physically visible head hanging and a ton of ref complaints in this playoff. Would LOVE to see that erased entirely from next year's squad, though I will note that I think those behaviors reduced somewhat once we were into these finals compared to the regular season and early playoffs.

Let's go get it in 2023, C's.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
8,629
The part that surprised me in this series is how much GS' defense messed up the Celtics after Game 1. The Celtics survived the incredible rim presence of the Bucks, and the hacking physicality of Miami, and I expected that the Warriors would feel like a relief - and in Game 1, it definitely was. I know that GS is a good defensive team, they aren't the Nets - I'm completely aware of that. But, I'm still puzzled why they seemed to be so much more effective against the Celtics than other teams. What exactly was the kryptonite here?

The Celtics seemed to miss a heck of a lot of shots at the rim, but I wouldn't say it was from getting fouled and not getting the whistle. 3 point shooting wasn't good in most of the series, that's for sure. I don't think the W's blitzed Tatum more than the other teams on the road here. What was the difference?
 

Jimbodandy

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Jan 31, 2006
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around the way
The part that surprised me in this series is how much GS' defense messed up the Celtics after Game 1. The Celtics survived the incredible rim presence of the Bucks, and the hacking physicality of Miami, and I expected that the Warriors would feel like a relief - and in Game 1, it definitely was. I know that GS is a good defensive team, they aren't the Nets - I'm completely aware of that. But, I'm still puzzled why they seemed to be so much more effective against the Celtics than other teams. What exactly was the kryptonite here?

The Celtics seemed to miss a heck of a lot of shots at the rim, but I wouldn't say it was from getting fouled and not getting the whistle. 3 point shooting wasn't good in most of the series, that's for sure. I don't think the W's blitzed Tatum more than the other teams on the road here. What was the difference?
IMO, they had two guys who could play our two best players straight up in Dray and Wiggins. That's the difference. Being able to lock up the two scorers with no help. Same as why we waltzed Brooklyn really. Not that Durant and Kyrie didn't have their moments, but the series was never in question.

At the end of the day, Golden State's defense was fantastic, and they had Steph Curry to be able to shoot through and over ours.
 

Seabass

has an efficient neck
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Oct 30, 2004
5,370
Brooklyn
I’ll never understand all of the turnovers. The Warriors play great D, but it felt like most of the turnovers were completely self inflicted -- dribbling into 3 guys, throwing the ball away, entry passes that never had a shot, just shooting themselves in the foot over and over and over again. Get rid of half of the unforced errors and they win it in six.

That being said, Steph won this championship. The guy is staggering.
 

chilidawg

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Jan 22, 2015
6,399
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The part that surprised me in this series is how much GS' defense messed up the Celtics after Game 1. The Celtics survived the incredible rim presence of the Bucks, and the hacking physicality of Miami, and I expected that the Warriors would feel like a relief - and in Game 1, it definitely was. I know that GS is a good defensive team, they aren't the Nets - I'm completely aware of that. But, I'm still puzzled why they seemed to be so much more effective against the Celtics than other teams. What exactly was the kryptonite here?

The Celtics seemed to miss a heck of a lot of shots at the rim, but I wouldn't say it was from getting fouled and not getting the whistle. 3 point shooting wasn't good in most of the series, that's for sure. I don't think the W's blitzed Tatum more than the other teams on the road here. What was the difference?
IMO, they had two guys who could play our two best players straight up in Dray and Wiggins. That's the difference. Being able to lock up the two scorers with no help. Same as why we waltzed Brooklyn really. Not that Durant and Kyrie didn't have their moments, but the series was never in question.

At the end of the day, Golden State's defense was fantastic, and they had Steph Curry to be able to shoot through and over ours.
I agree that the most surprising thing about the finals was how well GS defended the C's. Maybe Jimbo is right here. Wiggins sure seemed to have Tatum's number. I thought Brown did pretty well creating shots, but struggled when attacking the paint and the help defense collapsed on him. We just struggled so much to consistently create good looks.

Biggest disappointment for me is that they didn't play their best down the stretch. As someone pointed out up thread if the team that beat Milwaukee and the Heat showed up they had a good chance at a title. Maybe GS was just that good defensively, I don't know.

Looking forward to next year, we're on to the off season. Build some depth, get another ball handler, develop the kids.
 

lexrageorge

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Wiggins deserves a lot of credit for clamping down on Tatum; really made him uncomfortable by the mid-point of the series. Tatum still has Top 5 potential, and part of reaching that potential is learning to adapt when facing a strong 1-on-1 defender.
 

Captaincoop

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Unless I'm forgetting someone the last star players to win anything at Tatum's age or younger were Duncan and Kobe, and they had Robinson and Shaq.

Lebron didn't win until 27 when he had a super team. Curry didn't win until he was 26. Durant was 28 also on a super team. It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise that Tatum struggled in his first finals at 24, especially assuming he was playing at least somewhat hurt and getting little help.
Wade in 2006, in his third season at 24.

But also, next year will be Tatum's 6th year, he's not new to the NBA. It's hard to compare guys who were rookies at 22 with ones who were rookies at 19. Bird won a title in his second year, Magic in his first, Michael and Steph in their 6th.

He can keep getting better, and I certainly wouldn't give up on him turning the corner. But he's deeper into his career than it seems.
 

benhogan

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Upgrading the rotation players on the bench is a must item. They cannot count on organic growth from White, Pritchard, Theis, or Grant Williams, and only White was somewhat effective. Moving the latter 3 a couple of spots down the rotation would be a big help.

The Tatum narrative is going to suck until next year's playoffs. Just remember that he will win a title the instant he leaves Boston if it comes to that.

It will be interesting to see if Stevens is able to do anything with that $17M trade exception before it expires early July.
Good point, the C's should definitely add using the exception(s)...I doubt Brad will forget about the defensive job by Grant on Durant/Giannis or the fact that Pritchard shot lights out from 3 over the 2nd half of the season. Expecting continued improvement from 2nd/3rd-year bench players coming off a long playoff run isn't out of the realm of possibility.

If Brad wants to trade them I'm sure there are 29 other teams that would have interest.

What's the Tatum narrative? He is first-team All-NBA, 24, and was worn down (injured) by the finals. I guess Skip Bayless or Stephen A will have a narrative but remember they get paid by getting clicks from 29 other fan bases.

Wiggins deserves a lot of credit for clamping down on Tatum; really made him uncomfortable by the mid-point of the series. Tatum still has Top 5 potential, and part of reaching that potential is learning to adapt when facing a strong 1-on-1 defender.
good to hear he still has Top5 potential

The Tatum learning machine is still fully operational at age 24
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Wade in 2006, in his third season at 24.

But also, next year will be Tatum's 6th year, he's not new to the NBA. It's hard to compare guys who were rookies at 22 with ones who were rookies at 19. Bird won a title in his second year, Magic in his first, Michael and Steph in their 6th.

He can keep getting better, and I certainly wouldn't give up on him turning the corner. But he's deeper into his career than it seems.
It's pointless to do any of these comparisons. Tatum only played at or near his general physical peak this season and is now in his physical prime as an NBA player. He only figured out how to be a lead creator this season (really half a season). We are at the beginning of what will in all likelihood be considered his best 4-5 seasons. He is really not deeper into his career than it seems. You can't just count the seasons while discounting maturation.
 

lexrageorge

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Good point, the C's should definitely add using the exception(s)...I doubt Brad will forget about the defensive job by Grant on Durant/Giannis or the fact that Pritchard shot lights out from 3 over the 2nd half of the season. Expecting continued improvement from 2nd/3rd-year bench players coming off a long playoff run isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Grant and Pritchard will be 24 and 25, respectively. Physically, they are what they are. Bench players are the easiest to upgrade, and their competition in the East will also be taking steps to upgrade their rosters. This team was one missed shot from having to prevail in OT in Game 7 of the ECF, and the Heat will be aggressively trying to utilize their Butler window before it closes.

If Brad wants to trade them I'm sure there are 29 other teams that would have interest.
Well, that should help drive up the asking price ;)

What's the Tatum narrative? He is first-team All-NBA, 24, and was worn down (injured) by the finals. I guess Skip Bayless or Stephen A will have a narrative but remember they get paid by getting clicks from 29 other fan bases.
Had at least one poster mention that "basketball people" are whispering "soft". I call bullshit, but there will be a "soft" narrative that develops in the local media.

good to hear he still has Top5 potential

The Tatum learning machine is still fully operational at age 24
My point was that he is not yet Top 5, first team All-NBA notwithstanding. To get there, he will have to (a) stop barking at the refs after every missed drive to the hoop; and (b) learn to play better when defended by a Wiggins. Chance of both of those happening are still good, IMO.
 

Fishy1

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I really enjoyed the hell out of watching this team. They were an absolute unparalleled viewing experience in the second half of the season and in the playoffs they blitzed past Brooklyn, beat Milwaukee in a series they easily could have lost, and played their tails off against Miami.

Losing this series was tough, but I can't complain. They played two exhausting seven games series before this one, but they're young, they're dedicated, and I'm confident they'll get better. Tatum alone made a leap as a playmaker in the playoffs, averaging around six assists against elevated defenses. He was nails until he wasn't. There's no doubt he had a rough series, but I don't think it's fair to hold that against him: he was playing an outrageous number of minutes and looked exhausted out there a lot of the time, at least to my eyes.

Taking a healthy GSW, even at the tail-end of their dynasty, to six games is no small feat: two out of their three championships were 4-0 and 4-1, the other was 4-2 (their first). The only other team to take them to six games this playoffs was Memphis. The Celtics ran into a juggernaut, there's no way around it.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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People comparing GSW role players to BOS's role players seem to ignore that (1) GSW is paying a lot more in salary than BOS is (GSW has 4 guys making over $20M; BOS has 3) and (2) GSW's role players look a lot better because Curry proved to be unguardable 1 on 1.

TL's injury really hurt last night.

Will be interested in seeing what POBOBS does with the Fourmier trade exception. Also hoping White hires a shot coach over the summer.
How does the exception work? If a player is signed to a multi-year deal, is it only concerned with the current year of the contract? This could be the worst idea in the world, but Duncan Robinson makes 16.9 next year and the exception is 17.1. Any hope that bringing our boy back to NE could help him regain his stroke, or is that ludicrous? Part of me thinks that if Miami is happy to get out of his deal, we should run.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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Extremely disappointing loss. This is up there with the 2019 Bruins. They were the better team.

They need to grow up, but I'm afraid Smart is on the Dustin Pedroia timeline, the way he throws his body around. Horford as well. It's a shame. We coulda won it.

Only thing I can think of is maybe Ime was in over his head, as a first year head coach. Kerr has been here befeore.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Only thing I can think of is maybe Ime was in over his head, as a first year head coach. Kerr has been here befeore.
I think that VanEveryman has it right, the Celts were tired. I mean, if you watched the games you could tell that they were absolutely exhausted. It has nothing to do with Ime being "in over his head". He took a team that was 11th in the Conference in January to Game Six of the NBA Championship. Sometimes the other team is just better.
 

128

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Extremely disappointing loss. This is up there with the 2019 Bruins. They were the better team.

They need to grow up, but I'm afraid Smart is on the Dustin Pedroia timeline, the way he throws his body around. Horford as well. It's a shame. We coulda won it.

Only thing I can think of is maybe Ime was in over his head, as a first year head coach. Kerr has been here befeore.
I agree that Boston could have played better, but how could anyone have watched how the Warriors shot and defended in this series, and seen how deep their bench was, and not concluded that they were the superior team?
 

Auger34

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I think that VanEveryman has it right, the Celts were tired. I mean, if you watched the games you could tell that they were absolutely exhausted. It has nothing to do with Ime being "in over his head". He took a team that was 11th in the Conference in January to Game Six of the NBA Championship. Sometimes the other team is just better.
The lack of bench really limited anything Ime could do. I still maintain its probably not smart to play 2-3 of them at a time like he was doing but that’s not the main reason they lost and he had to try to steal minutes somewhere.

Tatum had a bad series but, IMO, the series was lost because Boston’s bench got completely clowned by the Warriors bench. I mean, yesterday Otto Porter and Jordan Poole made a bunch of important shots. Porter specifically hit two open 3’s when it seemed like the Celtics had all of the momentum.
Pritchard/White/Williams didn’t contribute anything close to that.
 

Return of the Dewey

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Tatum had a bad series but, IMO, the series was lost because Boston’s bench got completely clowned by the Warriors bench. I mean, yesterday Otto Porter and Jordan Poole made a bunch of important shots. Porter specifically hit two open 3’s when it seemed like the Celtics had all of the momentum.
Pritchard/White/Williams didn’t contribute anything close to that.
This is where I'm at. All series (and really playoffs) long, I longed for that guy who can come of the bench and just seems automatic from 3. I had hoped that PP would be that guy, but he really faded.
 

benhogan

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My point was that he is not yet Top 5, first team All-NBA notwithstanding. To get there, he will have to (a) stop barking at the refs after every missed drive to the hoop; and (b) learn to play better when defended by a Wiggins. Chance of both of those happening are still good, IMO.
Nobody likes the incessant Tatum whining/giving up on plays with his arms raised after a TO in the lane. It sucked and was copied by others (like Grant/Smart). I'd expect JT/Drew Hanlen will go into the lab, watch video, and figure out a strategy. If Tatum continues to get bigger/stronger, as he has done every off-season, he will play through contact more which should draw a better whistle.

Is Wiggins (and for that matter Steph/Bjelicia) lockdown defenders or was a young Tatum worn down/injured & frustrated by trying to master the role of PG/ball initiator? Bruce Brown, PJ Tucker, Butler, Giannis, J'rue Holiday are pretty good defenders, was Tatum soft there?

Also as noted numerous times, Tatum's minutes played this season, Olympics, COVID season, and Bubble playoffs have been pretty extreme over the last 24 months

A Tatum is soft narrative would only be perpetrated by those with an agenda that benefits from that POV. If it gets loud enough I'd expect it to fuel him, so not really bothered if the national NBA media (TNT/ESPN) runs with it. Gosh, he's made so many eat their words relentlessly for years now it's pretty funny when someone steps forward and doubts him.

Lets' see where he stands ranking-wise next April when it really starts mattering again. I don't know if he's #3 or #15 now, but he's pretty damn close to leading a Championship team.
 
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Auger34

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Nobody likes the incessant Tatum whining/giving up on plays with his arms raised after a TO in the lane. It sucked and was copied by others (like Grant/Smart). I'd expect JT/Drew Hanlen will go into the lab, watch video, and figure out a strategy. If Tatum continues to get bigger/stronger, as he has done every off-season, he will play through contact more which should draw a better whistle.

Is Wiggins (and for that matter Steph/Bjelicia) lockdown defenders or was a young Tatum worn down/injured & frustrated by trying to master the role of PG/ball initiator? Bruce Brown, PJ Tucker, Butler, Giannis, J'rue Holiday are pretty good defenders, was Tatum soft there?

Also as noted, Tatum's minutes played this season, Olympics and COVID season, and Bubble playoffs have been pretty extreme over the last 24 months

A Tatum is soft narrative would only be perpetrated by those with an agenda that benefits from that POV. If it gets loud enough I'd expect it to fuel him, so not really bothered if the national NBA media (TNT/ESPN) runs with it. Gosh, he's made so many eat their words relentlessly for years now it's pretty funny when someone steps forward and doubts him.

Lets' see where he stands ranking-wise next April when it really starts mattering again. I don't know if he's #3 or #15 now, but he's pretty damn close to leading a Championship team.
His next step is consistency and consistently figuring out how to impact the game when his shots not falling. (That and working on finishing at the rim)
Game 1 was a perfect example of this. He couldn’t throw the ball into the ocean but he was still damn good out there.