More scoring than Draymond sure, but doesn't really pass the ball. And I'm really not sure about DPOY, except that it of course is based on rep. I don't see any real argument for Bam as a top 5 defender. He is super versatile there though.
Celtics vs Da Culture - Round 1 (FIGHT!)
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Yeah given the years they've put together, Rudy Gobert probably has more of an argument for another DPOY than Bam would to get his first. Bam has never even made all-defense first team.
(fake edit: and lo, DARKO has Gobert first in D-DPM, followed by Nurkic, Draymond, Alex Len?!, Hartenstein!, and Brook Lopez. LEBRON has Gobert first in defense by a mile, followed by Claxton, Wembanyama, Isaac, and Bitazde. But remember, Gobert is the most overrated player in the league, according to the players!)
(fake edit: and lo, DARKO has Gobert first in D-DPM, followed by Nurkic, Draymond, Alex Len?!, Hartenstein!, and Brook Lopez. LEBRON has Gobert first in defense by a mile, followed by Claxton, Wembanyama, Isaac, and Bitazde. But remember, Gobert is the most overrated player in the league, according to the players!)
I think you have something weird on your D-LEBRON, Wemby is 1st at 2.97, then Rudy (2.86), AD(2.65) and Bam(2.6).
I went here, and then applied the season filter for 2023-24, which is same as I usually do for LEBRON data. And yet I see minutes counts on that data that do look suspiciously low. Perhaps that has an old version of the dataset, and they haven't pushed the rest of the season to it yet? Are you going to a different page, behind the paywall?
I used this: https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/ which is what I've always used.
Edit- I can't get your link to load, so not sure if it's the same.
He probably will this year now that it is position-less. He is no Rudy Gobert, but he's been a top 5 defensive player for several years running
+1 If we can't bash Heat players unfettered what are we doing here?
Replacing a key cog from the greatest NBA offense of All-Time for Bam's 53% eFG would be malpractice.
Bam for KP is probably close to a neutral exchange on the court. They'd legitimately challenge Minnesota as the best defense in the league (and I'd 100% take Bam over Gobert in the playoffs), and the offense just might still be #1, if not by as significant a margin. Even if the ceiling is a bit higher with Porzingis, I'd make the swap only because Bam is a couple of years younger and infinitely more durable. He's missed just 52 games over the last 6 seasons, and 22 of those games were when he injured his thumb in 2022. He's got his limits (just like KP), but he's also proven that he can stay healthy and effective over multiple finals runs. That's still an open (and very important) question for KP.
The question was for "just these playoffs"?
There is no way I'm giving up the 8-out shooting Boston owns at the moment, no matter how many moving screens Bam is permitted. Or one of the most efficient post-up scorers in the NBA. Or KP's size/drop defense/rim protection.
Agreed KP's injury/Games Played issue tilts the equation to Bam over the long term. But then again Boston acquired KP for a bag of donuts & Bam was a hard NO for Lillard last summer
Bam is one of the best switchy Centers in the NBA, but I'll just reiterate what I first said, any list that rates Bam or Gobert higher than Jaylen Brown is laughable.
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Not trying to get into this too much but I did this too because I couldn't watch it live.
The push was pretty light, you can see his upper body move but he literally takes a half step from there and it doesn't seem to have affected his gait or act like some kind of rocket booster. He doesn't really jump: he planted his left foot right under Tatum and presumably was going to shift all his momentum upwards, but he just barely stepped on Tatum's foot so couldn't. He was basically running through Tatum but didn't mean to bowl him over like that. It is a deliberately rough play though. spoilered for image size
Good article breaking down how JT got his 10 assists (with film!): https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/042224-how-tatum-picked-apart-miamis-defense-for-game-high-10-assists
It's super hard with any metrics to unpack how much of a guy's defensive stats are based on his teammates. Both Miami and Boston had stellar defenses this year. Some of that is because of Bam and KP, respectively. But some of that was because of their teammates. Hard to unpack.
I say that because the defensive numbers show us a career progression of Bam being a far superior defender than KP, while the latter is rated as being equally good right now. To be completely fair, that's probably in part due to the system and his teammates, so point Bam, no question. The resume is great.
But offensively, they are just completely different guys. I'm with you on this. I do not want to give up a guy who can and does hit unblockable 27 footers on a regular basis, nevermind that he also possesses a fantastic post game and is a one-man zone breaker.
Anyone wants to nominate Bam as the choice for the next five years, no beef with that at all. He doesn't carry KP's injury history and massive height (which is itself an elevated risk factor). But right now, and in a 3-year window, I just don't get the comparison.
Personally, I wouldn't trade any of the top4 on this team (Tatum/Brown/KP/White) for Bam, contract status notwithstanding. I don't think that I'm on an island on this.
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A winter's day
In deep and dark December
You are alone
Gazing from your window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow
You are a rock
You are (not on) an island
In deep and dark December
You are alone
Gazing from your window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow
You are a rock
You are (not on) an island
"Just for these playoffs" doesn't change my answer. Bam has played in 70 of 72 possible playoff games, and he played more than twice as many playoff games in last year's run (23) as KP has in his entire career (11 including this past weekend). He's about as reliable as you can get, which is just a massive advantage. He's not KP on offense (almost no one is), but right now he's basically a more athletic version of prime Al Horford, without the 3 point shooting. We know that kind of player would fit well with this group.
Agreed that any list that puts Bam or Gobert above Brown is ridiculous.
That's pretty fair. There are some minor differences but overall I like it.
The other thing, at least from a team building perspective, is that he doesn't really demand the ball or even seem to want that many shots. That's pretty unique in a player as good as he is and can be very valuable on the right roster...of course we are seeing the downside of it right now with Butler injured and Bam forced to be the #1 option
Rob Williams who can score would be fantastic to behold. I'd still rather have Porzingis. Being able to go 5 wide 8 guys deep is a huge advantage.
No problem with anyone feeling the urge to hedge injury bets here though. Swap out KP for BA, and I'd have no huge issue with it, because the window here is not just one year. I get what Euc is saying.
Put me down for oceanfront property on Jimbo Island
and Yes I'd take Derrick White over Bam today, tomorrow, and for the next 3 years
Any team not paying attention to the Celtic's O-Rtg & Net Rtg this season, while grabbing their pearls and screaming "they shoot too many 3s!" is going to be left in the dust.
NBA Three-point efficiency & demand for shooters is only going in one direction.
Bam vs Jaylen riles me up a lot less than a list that has Sabonis sniffing the top 25.
Nobody tell him about the all-NBA teams last year.
No but seriously, it would depend a lot on team context for me, there are a lot of ways to frame the question.
If I'm starting an expansion team, I take Jaylen every time, because two way wings who can create their own shot are like the first thing you need in a successful team, and when JT is out, JB has proven that he can score however much we need him to. Bam has to be in the right type of team construction to be successful. If you have a roster with a lot of athleticism and you plan to switch everything, maybe Bam is your guy. The Celtics are probably better when Brown is sitting than when Porzingis is sitting, so maybe that's an argument for needing a Bam more in that situation.
We could probably go around the league and ask ourselves "would this team rather trade their center for Bam, or their #2 scorer for Brown?", and see where they come out. Teams with a superstar center are obviously opting for Brown. But how many teams are there who have plenty of wing depth and scoring and need tighter man D, post play and a passing fulcrum in the middle, and so would opt for Bam? I think for example GSW takes Bam, as do the Clippers, and so on... but I think it's probably a minority of the league - I think most opt for Brown.
And that's before considering that Brown is signed for 3 more years than Bam is, in terms of asset value.
By eyeball.......they have been ahead by 20 as much (13%) as they have been down >4 Pts (somewhere around 13%)
Long way to go but IF this team runs through the playoffs (EC they should, Finals will be the challenge if Denver) to a Title they are in the discussion of GOAT.
Celtics current money line to win this series is -50000. The next closest team with odds like that to win are the Nuggets at -2000 (i.e. Boston is 25x more likely to advance at this point than Denver, unless I flat out don't know how to read lines). Has any team ever had odds like this heading into game 2?
I am officially petrified of this game. Get ready for a war boys and girls! The dreaded adjustment game.
I was worried about the Heat in this series before seeding. This isn’t going to be easy especially if we lose tonight. They grind and they don’t quit despite the talent imbalance between the two teams.
C's just need to tighten the on-ball defense/intensity... little too relaxed tonight
Someone should tell Coach Joe that leaving Herro all alone at the 3 point line is fucking dumb.
Finally somebody else on this board who shows some respect for the Heat. We've seen this movie before.
This was always the game we could lose after the G1 blowout when Miami flew in off an elimination game win unprepared mentally or physically. Long term we should still be fine even if we don’t come back without Butler. Much like the Nuggets/Lakers series though it’s the worst possible first round matchup. I stand by that.
Some NBA teams, unlike the Celtics tonight, think it is a good idea to defend those shots.
Anyway...
- Regular season Celtics: 37-4 on their home court.
- Playoff Celtics (Ime/Joe era): 12-13 on their home court.
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Just as @HomeRunBaker predicted. Will be good to see how this team responds. Disappearance of the new guys was brutal tonight.
Not a great game, also not particularly concerning. Yes they came out flat, yes when MIA shot a huge number of 3s and hit a ton they resorted to ISO ball too much and stopped taking 3s of their own. It happens. Probably good for them to get this one out early in the playoffs to focus them going forward.
You’d think the 4th quarter mini scare in Game 1 would do the trick. It, did not.
I’ll be a lot more concerned if they lose, or even barely win, Game 3 in a more straight up game.
That's pretty much how I see it, though I worry about how the C's will handle the inevitable close game. The Heat are going to be loose, because they expect to win and nobody will kill them if they lose. All the pressure is on Boston.