Celtics vs 76ers, Round 2 Discussion

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,950
Here
The 24 second violation was also a big miss, but I can’t blame the refs it was less than one tenth. I’ll just blame the system, because if that’s out of bounds or a shot I believe it gets reviewed. Why not a 24 second violation?
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,922
Can the NBA take a look at the Tucker play or are they just saying nothing to see here at this point and moving on? In no way is this a natural act (he wound up) and was 100% done with intent. I love Reggie, I don’t even think he saw Tatum was there. Ok Reg.

View: https://twitter.com/jose3030/status/1653210696660709376?s=46&t=Czjt40Px7cadfiCYc3CDtQ
If it was intentional, it was a no-look nutpunch. I'm not sure, in the moment, someone really would have the awareness to think about doing that.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,300
This is why I can't accept the "variance of one game" point some folks have made. Most of those turnovers were because of sloppy, unfocused play. And that extended to the defensive end as well.

The loss wasn't just 'Harden got crazy hot so what can you do?'.

Hopefully the team pulls it's head from its posterior for Game 2.
The point that many of us are making is that this is easily correctable…..and because it really was one game. And Harden was crazy hot. :)
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,351
around the way
More or less, but I think it's critical to note that while the defense was subpar last night, it was the 10 turnover differential between the two teams that hurt the most. You can't have that in the playoffs and expect to win, Embiid or no Embiid.
Agreed that our turnovers were a problem. But the main reason why there was such a big turnover differential was because we weren't creating any...because we weren't playing any defense.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,955
pawtucket
I can’t believe I am going to do this but I guess I am going to play the role of HRB here….

I think Tucker was gesturing angrily at Maxey that he needed to get back on defense (which is why he wildly threw his arm and pointed backwards)
Tucker was a wild man on Reed in timeout after Celtics got two offensive rebounds on same possession in final minute. His toughness cannot be quantified on a team that habitually has played soft in playoffs. Where Simmons shied from the ball, Tucker has become a very physical protector, a role Red Auerbach favored in the 1960s. Tucker played 37 minutes last night with a +5 scoring diff. He took zero shots. Set 50 picks, minimum. Dirty work.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,807
It's crazy, somehow all 4 of the Boston pro sports teams I root for, and the multiple college teams I root for, are all always on the receiving end of bad officiating in basically every game. At least that's what my fellow fans always say. And even crazier is that the teams we play also claim to be on the receiving end of bad officiating in those same games! But that doesn't seem possible, right?
This did make me laugh.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
28,247
Saskatoon Canada
After watching Miami New York 4th quarter I wondered if they were the two hardest playing tough defensive teams I had ever seen, then I realized the Celtics had just lowered my expectations.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,555
I hate the two minute report lol, but the play was a five point swing.

View: https://twitter.com/stoolgreenie/status/1653493753922084865?s=46
If the refs make the simple call there, we're here talking about how the Celtics played in their asses for the 1st half, but then got it together in crunch time.

The Cs played like dogshit, and Harden got really hot, but they also got completely jobbed by the refs in this one.

Wrt the Tatum nutpunch: it is impossible for me to imagine a universe in which that happens to LeBron and it doesn't get reviewed.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,555
After watching Miami New York 4th quarter I wondered if they were the two hardest playing tough defensive teams I had ever seen, then I realized the Celtics had just lowered my expectations.
Complete dogshit effort, especially relative to their physical talent. This is harkening back to the Late Brad Stevens Era.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,064
Portland, Maine
It was posted in the game thread that Smart is questionable with a chest contusion for tonight. Not sure if he's more banged up than that but even in the Hawks series I thought he didn't look himself. He can turn it on in key moments but his ability to stay in front of good players and harass them seemed to be...lacking this playoffs. So much of the defense starts with him and I wonder if that's had a large effect.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,300
It was posted in the game thread that Smart is questionable with a chest contusion for tonight. Not sure if he's more banged up than that but even in the Hawks series I thought he didn't look himself. He can turn it on in key moments but his ability to stay in front of good players and harass them seemed to be...lacking this playoffs. So much of the defense starts with him and I wonder if that's had a large effect.
This is gamesmanship season. Last night both Randle and Brunson were Game Time Decisions and Miami could only smirk so long before declaring Butler out as it didn’t seem possible he’d be ready. Smart chest won’t stop him from playing even if he had to find Gilbert Mudge to clear him if I had to guess.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
Wow, I am stunned by this. I would 100000000% hold him out if I am Doc Rivers. If I were a Sixer fan, I’d want them to hold him out!
Philly accomplished what they came to do. They got 1 at Boston. They are completely playing with house money. If they get beaten down tonight, they have in their back pocket that Embiid wasn’t playing and morale will still be high going into Game 3.

If Joel plays tonight and looks bad and the Celtics win I think that’s a pretty crushing defeat. They still split and now have home court but I think the morale and confidence of the team and fans would take a huge hit
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,351
around the way
This is gamesmanship season. Last night both Randle and Brunson were Game Time Decisions and Miami could only smirk so long before declaring Butler out as it didn’t seem possible he’d be ready. Smart chest won’t stop him from playing even if he had to find Gilbert Mudge to clear him if I had to guess.
Too soon

edit: oops WBCD beat me to it
 
Last edited:

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,490
Los Angeles, CA
Wrt the Tatum nutpunch: it is impossible for me to imagine a universe in which that happens to LeBron and it doesn't get reviewed.
Yes, and Lebron would have rolled around on the ground, writhing in pain until the review was called for. And I'm not even really complaining about that. The fact is that players have to act and embellish when something bad happens in order to get the refs' attention. The fact that the refs saw Tatum in a fetal position and told Mazzula "We can't review it just because you want us to" is mind boggling. Isn't that exactly what happens all the time, to make sure a potential hostile act isn't overlooked?
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,871
Imaginationland
Wow, I am stunned by this. I would 100000000% hold him out if I am Doc Rivers. If I were a Sixer fan, I’d want them to hold him out!
Philly accomplished what they came to do. They got 1 at Boston. They are completely playing with house money. If they get beaten down tonight, they have in their back pocket that Embiid wasn’t playing and morale will still be high going into Game 3.

If Joel plays tonight and looks bad and the Celtics win I think that’s a pretty crushing defeat. They still split and now have home court but I think the morale and confidence of the team and fans would take a huge hit
If he's ready, he's ready. The counter to this is, if he plays and they win, they've put themselves in a great position to take the series. They've stolen home court, but Boston is still the betting favorite.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,955
pawtucket
If he's ready, he's ready. The counter to this is, if he plays and they win, they've put themselves in a great position to take the series. They've stolen home court, but Boston is still the betting favorite.
They also force Boston to prepare for the Embiid offense AND the offense where Harden takes 30 shots. Embiid probably won’t play more than 20 minutes tonight. If he stiffens up at halftime, he’s done for night. Auerbach would lock away all the exercise bikes so Embiid couldn’t ride one next to the bench.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
Bill Simmons has Chris Mannix on his podcast today and they talk about the Celtics. Neither of them broke anything new or said anything particularly noteworthy but they did bring up something that I had forgot about..

It’s a pretty massive whiff on Brad, Joe; or both of them that they never hired an assistant with more experience (or one who had been a head coach). Stoudamire leaving middle of the year and not being replaced has made it much more noticeable as well.

They’ve effectively lost their top 3 assistants and I don’t believe they’ve replaced any of them? Is that right?
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,656
Maine
They may have naively/realistically thought that Mighty Mouse was gonna stick around all year. I think an argument could be made for both sides.
And not sure how good Candidates, and what kind of "Fit" they would be mid season to Replace Stoudamire. So hard to ding them on that too much.

As far as the beginning of the season, people where freaking out that the Celts where somehow witch hunting Ime and/or this was all a big nothing and that Ime would be back. So what "quality" assistant wants to come into that "Mess". 1. "is boston being an ass to its coach? I dont need that headache" 2. "Why do i want to come back to work for the interim guy? Is Ime going to retain me"?

(I say "mess" even as I think the Celts handled it as well as possible.....had everyone a crystal ball then the candidate pool would/could have been larger. "Yup Ime was a guilty of SOMETHING, And Yes you can stay on and work for CJM beyond an Interim year".)

Seems like MMQB to say they should have hired more help. For 1/2 the season they were the best team in the NBA. Then DS left....and at that point who you gonna get.

Lest we forget that Brad has "some experience". And who knows what kind of collaboration he and Joe have (outside of ingame obviously). Maybe the decision was made that between them and the coaches left (including DS before his surprise departure) there would be plenty of experience.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
32,018
They’ve effectively lost their top 3 assistants and I don’t believe they’ve replaced any of them? Is that right?
According to BRef, that's correct. Current staff (all were there last year) is:

Kenny Graves Coaching Associate
Art Horne Performance
Tyler Yeaton Strength and Conditioning
Aaron Miles Assistant Coach
Tony Dobbins Assistant Coach
Ben Sullivan Assistant Coach
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
They may have naively/realistically thought that Mighty Mouse was gonna stick around all year. I think an argument could be made for both sides.
And not sure how good Candidates, and what kind of "Fit" they would be mid season to Replace Stoudamire. So hard to ding them on that too much.

As far as the beginning of the season, people where freaking out that the Celts where somehow witch hunting Ime and/or this was all a big nothing and that Ime would be back. So what "quality" assistant wants to come into that "Mess". 1. "is boston being an ass to its coach? I dont need that headache" 2. "Why do i want to come back to work for the interim guy? Is Ime going to retain me"?

(I say "mess" even as I think the Celts handled it as well as possible.....had everyone a crystal ball then the candidate pool would/could have been larger. "Yup Ime was a guilty of SOMETHING, And Yes you can stay on and work for CJM beyond an Interim year".)

Seems like MMQB to say they should have hired more help. For 1/2 the season they were the best team in the NBA. Then DS left....and at that point who you gonna get.

Lest we forget that Brad has "some experience". And who knows what kind of collaboration he and Joe have (outside of ingame obviously). Maybe the decision was made that between them and the coaches left (including DS before his surprise departure) there would be plenty of experience.
I think a lot of coaches would have taken the top assistant job, especially if the compensation was there. Brad Stevens was a coach himself, it’s not like it’s some hired accountant or basketball guy that doesn’t know what coaching is like. I highly doubt anyone would look at this job and think it’s one that’s unfair to the coaches. Mannix said they had discussions with Vogel and a couple of other people but Vogel didn’t want to move cross country for the job (Vogel was the only name he specifically said).

And the whole point of hiring an assistant with experience is for in-game help. Mazzulla’s clear weakness is in-game adjustments, an assistant with experience would help with that.

When Udoka was hired, it was a talking point that there was no assistant who had ever been a head coach before and if he needed that sounding board. That didn’t prove to be correct…however, it’s still shocking that they essentially lost their top 2 assistants and literally brought in no one else. I’m going to give them a pass for Stoudamire because who could have predicted that but losing 2 is enough
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,734
Bill Simmons has Chris Mannix on his podcast today and they talk about the Celtics. Neither of them broke anything new or said anything particularly noteworthy but they did bring up something that I had forgot about..

It’s a pretty massive whiff on Brad, Joe; or both of them that they never hired an assistant with more experience (or one who had been a head coach). Stoudamire leaving middle of the year and not being replaced has made it much more noticeable as well.

They’ve effectively lost their top 3 assistants and I don’t believe they’ve replaced any of them? Is that right?
They promoted one player enhancement coach to assistant coach and added new player enhancement coaches, so essentially they replaced Hardy, but yeah down 2 assistants with no backfill for Joe, and losing a coach mid-season.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
I’ve mentioned a couple times that not grabbing a Vogel or Stotts seemed like a mistake.
Those two would be ideal…but really they just needed to hire someone with a lot of experience coaching in the NBA in some capacity. I am honestly dumbfounded that they didn’t. It’s a complete unforced error and made Joe’s job that much tougher
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,675
I agree with you guys, with one big caveat: CJM's mentor and an excellent, experienced NBA coach is already employed by the team and could be doing all sorts of things behind the scenes just like we want this theoretical assistant to do. Or, Brad may not be...but it is quite conceivable he's part of the answer.

I acknoweldge we don't know, and also that it doesn't help much in-game...so I still would have preferred they brought someone in (or, in 'as well as Brad')
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,300
According to BRef, that's correct. Current staff (all were there last year) is:

Kenny Graves Coaching Associate
Art Horne Performance
Tyler Yeaton Strength and Conditioning
Aaron Miles Assistant Coach
Tony Dobbins Assistant Coach
Ben Sullivan Assistant Coach
That is correct and these are all Ime hires, many of whom will likely join him in Houston once our season is finished, so expect a mass exodus and an entirely new staff for Joe/Brad to bring in.

I can’t blame Brad for what happened as we had a good HC and two high quality assistants entering camp. It cannot be said enough how badly Ime fucked us over. But meh, at the end of the day it’s the talent and leadership on the floor that is going to determine our fate. That leadership from Smart and Tatum was lacking in G1 by the lack of dog in this team.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,351
around the way
I agree with you guys, with one big caveat: CJM's mentor and an excellent, experienced NBA coach is already employed by the team and could be doing all sorts of things behind the scenes just like we want this theoretical assistant to do. Or, Brad may not be...but it is quite conceivable he's part of the answer.

I acknoweldge we don't know, and also that it doesn't help much in-game...so I still would have preferred they brought someone in (or, in 'as well as Brad')
Yeah I'm surprised that teams have this many coaches as it is. I know that we're in an era of specialization, and I don't begrudge teams for having extra coaches and shit. But back in the 80s, didn't the team have like two assistants for a 12-man roster?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,698
Yeah I'm surprised that teams have this many coaches as it is. I know that we're in an era of specialization, and I don't begrudge teams for having extra coaches and shit. But back in the 80s, didn't the team have like two assistants for a 12-man roster?
Back in the 80s, there was a lot less money involved in the sport. When teams are severely limited what they can spend on players, an obvious way to invest in your billion dollar team is spending on more coaches.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,351
around the way
Back in the 80s, there was a lot less money involved in the sport. When teams are severely limited what they can spend on players, an obvious way to invest in your billion dollar team is spending on more coaches.
Agreed. Great way to spend money. Just saying that they can probably get by at this point of the season. They won't be implementing new offenses and schemes in the playoffs. Maybe try out a new action, switch between a bunch of actions that they already play (less drop perhaps). Try more Grant or less Al or something. Fewer things to worry about now, even though the stakes are higher. Team is baked.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
That is correct and these are all Ime hires, many of whom will likely join him in Houston once our season is finished, so expect a mass exodus and an entirely new staff for Joe/Brad to bring in.

I can’t blame Brad for what happened as we had a good HC and two high quality assistants entering camp. It cannot be said enough how badly Ime fucked us over. But meh, at the end of the day it’s the talent and leadership on the floor that is going to determine our fate. That leadership from Smart and Tatum was lacking in G1 by the lack of dog in this team.
First of all, all of this is prefaced by saying yes, fuck Ime. I will be rooting very hard for him to be an absolute disaster the rest of his career.

I can understand not replacing Will Hardy when he left. They still have Ime, you can effectively make Joe the lead assistant and promote Stoudamire. Once the Ime stuff happens, they should have brought in someone else.

And, just to be clear, I think an experienced assistant was needed for in-game situations specifically. I think the between game stuff Joe has handled really well.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,300
First of all, all of this is prefaced by saying yes, fuck Ime. I will be rooting very hard for him to be an absolute disaster the rest of his career.

I can understand not replacing Will Hardy when he left. They still have Ime, you can effectively make Joe the lead assistant and promote Stoudamire. Once the Ime stuff happens, they should have brought in someone else.

And, just to be clear, I think an experienced assistant was needed for in-game situations specifically. I think the between game stuff Joe has handled really well.
Everyone who wanted jobs already had jobs at that point. How can they bring anyone in at that point when nobody is available? The first guy who became available, Steve Silas, has been with the team and Brad for the last several weeks.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,330
Everyone who wanted jobs already had jobs at that point. How can they bring anyone in at that point when nobody is available? The first guy who became available, Steve Silas, has been with the team and Brad for the last several weeks.
Frank Vogel and Terry Stotts were two named above. Mike D’Antoni is another.

Again, they don’t HAVE to have head coaching experience. Ron Adams didn’t have any NBA head coaching experience yet he was invaluable to Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,300
Frank Vogel and Terry Stotts were two named above. Mike D’Antoni is another.

Again, they don’t HAVE to have head coaching experience. Ron Adams didn’t have any NBA head coaching experience yet he was invaluable to Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr
Meh, if these guys wanted assistant jobs they would have had them. If they didn’t have offers over the summer something else was up. I don’t believe for a second that Vogel or Stotts would come in as an assistant at this stage of their careers.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
8,192
Brogdon shouldn’t be guarding Harden. JB or Smart, with a small dose of JT if necessary.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,845
Melrose, MA
Well. Incredible intensity from the opening tip, when they weren't getting bounces, right into garbage time. Despite Tatum spending most of the game in foul trouble and not producing much in short minutes. Also clear adjustments on defense. First blowout of the playoffs, and a well-deserved one.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,950
Here
That was better. Embiid seemed timid and the Sixers can't afford to have him be like that if he's going to be on the floor. Whether that's confidence from injury or the injury itself, we shall see.
 
Last edited:

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,865
It’s quite a bit premature but maybe Brad will pull a Riley/Popovic move and force Mazzulla out and go back to the sideline himself.
If Brad had won one, that might be justified, but he hasn't. Get an old head to whisper in Mazzulla's ear next year. Hey, didn't Coach K always regret not coaching the Cs?!?!
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,922
If it was intentional, it was a no-look nutpunch. I'm not sure, in the moment, someone really would have the awareness to think about doing that.
I take it back. He did the same no look punch tonight on Brown. Must be a "skill" he has picked up over his years in the NBA.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,490
Los Angeles, CA
I take it back. He did the same no look punch tonight on Brown. Must be a "skill" he has picked up over his years in the NBA.
Really? Wow, I didn't see that. Got a vid?

Edit: Oh, are you talking about Tucker's retaliation after he thought he was fouled? I thought that was more of a chest/shoulder strike than any sort of swinging arm/fist nut punch.