Celtics Sign Tacko Fall

lexrageorge

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I'm curious: What does that mean for Tacko being exposed to offers from other teams? Unless the Celts cut him, are they guaranteed to keep him for at least a year, with rights to him beyond that, if they so desire? I'm not familiar with how the Exhibit 10 contracts work in that regard. Anyone know?
I believe the options for Tacko are the following:

a.) He can make the team as one of the 15 standard one-way players.

b.) His contract can be converted to a 2-way contract prior to the start of the regular season. If the Celtics do that, they would need to either waive one of Waters or Struss, or convert one of them to a standard NBA contract.

c.) They could waive Fall. If he reports to Maine and stays there for 60 days, he gets a bonus up to $50,000. He could be signed by another team either before or after that time.
 

NomarsFool

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I just don't think option "a" would be helpful for this development, aside from the significant financial implications for him, of course. Teams don't really practice during the regular season, and if he's not getting significant game time (which is what I'd expect) it would be sort of a lost year.
 

benhogan

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I just don't think option "a" would be helpful for this development, aside from the significant financial implications for him, of course. Teams don't really practice during the regular season, and if he's not getting significant game time (which is what I'd expect) it would be sort of a lost year.
I'd risk 4yrs at $4MM and give him the 15th spot. Play him at Maine and dress 14 players on the road to start the season. The team is 4 deep at Center and will struggle to find minutes for TL as is.

I'd let Brad and all the Celtic rocket scientists devise specialty inbound plays (which could be tried out in Maine games) where Tacko's length would be a difference-maker in high leverage situations. Use him as my 15th man by seasons end and playoffs. If he could make a difference on 2-3 plays a game while retaining his upside on the cheap I'd be thrilled. I see athleticism with a guy that runs extremely well for that size. He's mature/intelligent and could also audit some MIT/Harvard* classes with Jaylen and Grant.

I'd be interested to see if he could develop into a defensive weapon. The $1MM/yr would be paid for by attendance/interest at Maine Red Claw games alone, but I doubt the money is even an issue here.


*The Boston pro sports teams should combine to create a Specialty Program with Harvard/MIT for the young intelligent athlete to give them leverage after their playing days. This could turn into a draw for free agents if executed properly.
 
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the moops

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I just watched all of his summer league highlights again because it makes me happy.
I was skeptical of these highlights at first, considering the first highlight was him just grabbing a rebound, but yea It really does make you happy.

His most impressive play was one that resulted in a basket for the other team. Where he moved his feet quite well for a giant
 

chilidawg

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I'd risk 4yrs at $4MM and give him the 15th spot. Play him at Maine and dress 14 players on the road to start the season. The team is 4 deep at Center and will struggle to find minutes for TL as is.

I'd let Brad and all the Celtic rocket scientists devise specialty inbound plays (which could be tried out in Maine games) where Tacko's length would be a difference-maker in high leverage situations. Use him as my 15th man by seasons end and playoffs. If he could make a difference on 2-3 plays a game while retaining his upside on the cheap I'd be thrilled. I see athleticism with a guy that runs extremely well for that size. He's mature/intelligent and could also audit some MIT/Harvard* classes with Jaylen and Grant.

I'd be interested to see if he could develop into a defensive weapon. The $1MM/yr would be paid for by attendance/interest at Maine Red Claw games alone, but I doubt the money is even an issue here.


*The Boston pro sports teams should combine to create a Specialty Program with Harvard/MIT for the young intelligent athlete to give them leverage after their playing days. This could turn into a draw for free agents if executed properly.
I think you can only dress 13 for any one game.
 

mcpickl

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I'd risk 4yrs at $4MM and give him the 15th spot. Play him at Maine and dress 14 players on the road to start the season. The team is 4 deep at Center and will struggle to find minutes for TL as is.
The most the Celtics could've offered him is 2 years at the minimum on a standard contract.
The exhibit 10 contract he actually got can only be one year at the minimum.

I think they preferred the exhibit 10 to a standard contract since they can just convert the exhibit 10 to a two way contract without having to waive him.

Gives them the option to make Tacko the 15th man, or convert his deal to a two way contract if either Waters or Strus is the 15th guy(or just released).
 

benhogan

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The most the Celtics could've offered him is 2 years at the minimum on a standard contract.
The exhibit 10 contract he actually got can only be one year at the minimum.

I think they preferred the exhibit 10 to a standard contract since they can just convert the exhibit 10 to a two way contract without having to waive him.

Gives them the option to make Tacko the 15th man, or convert his deal to a two way contract if either Waters or Strus is the 15th guy(or just released).
ok, so they can't offer him a 4yr Edwards deal?
 

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Can anyone here provide an explanation of how the contract rules work for back-of-the-roster guys? I can’t be the only person who never paid much attention before now to the 15th spot on the C’s active roster and the process for stashing guys in the G-league.

I’m guessing the C’s can give Fall a contract with the big club and send him to Maine along with Waters and Strus, since 1st rounders with guaranteed contracts get sent to the G-league all the time, but I don’t really understand the process.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Can anyone here provide an explanation of how the contract rules work for back-of-the-roster guys? I can’t be the only person who never paid much attention before now to the 15th spot on the C’s active roster and the process for stashing guys in the G-league.

I’m guessing the C’s can give Fall a contract with the big club and send him to Maine along with Waters and Strus, since 1st rounders with guaranteed contracts get sent to the G-league all the time, but I don’t really understand the process.
During the regular season, an NBA team can have up to 15 guys under regular NBA contracts at any one time. The Celtics have recently sometimes had only 14. (An NBA can dress 13 players for a game).

They can also have up to 2 guys on "2-way" contracts. A guy on a 2-way contract can play in the G-league or NBA, but he can only spend up to 45 days (days, not games) with the NBA team. Once he hits that mark the NBA team must either keep him in the G-League or give him a regular NBA deal. Players on 2-way deals are not eligible for the playoffs. The Celtics have Max Strus and Tremont Waters on 2 way deals.

During the offseason and training camp, NBA teams are allowed to exceed 15 regular NBA contracts, but once the season startes they need to trade or cut players who don't make the team.

There are also training camp only deals, like the one the Celtics signed Tacko Fall to. Fall will go to camp witht he Celtics and then go to the G-League. Part of the deal with Fall's contract is that if he spends a couple of months with the Red Claws he gets a $50,000 bonus.
 

Smokey Joe

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During the regular season, an NBA team can have up to 15 guys under regular NBA contracts at any one time. The Celtics have recently sometimes had only 14. (An NBA can dress 13 players for a game).

They can also have up to 2 guys on "2-way" contracts. A guy on a 2-way contract can play in the G-league or NBA, but he can only spend up to 45 days (days, not games) with the NBA team. Once he hits that mark the NBA team must either keep him in the G-League or give him a regular NBA deal. Players on 2-way deals are not eligible for the playoffs. The Celtics have Max Strus and Tremont Waters on 2 way deals.

During the offseason and training camp, NBA teams are allowed to exceed 15 regular NBA contracts, but once the season startes they need to trade or cut players who don't make the team.

There are also training camp only deals, like the one the Celtics signed Tacko Fall to. Fall will go to camp witht he Celtics and then go to the G-League. Part of the deal with Fall's contract is that if he spends a couple of months with the Red Claws he gets a $50,000 bonus.
At the beginning of the regular season, the Celtics must...
1. Guarantee the contract. Then it is a regular minimum contract that counts against the cap and takes up a roster slot. or
2. Convert the contract to a two way contract or
3. Waive Tacko. Then he can be signed to a G-league contract and if he stays with the Red Claws for 60 days he gets the 50K. The Celtics no longer have his NBA rights if they do number 3. and any team can offer him a contract and sign him if they want.
 

mcpickl

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ok, so they can't offer him a 4yr Edwards deal?
No.

As Eddie Jurak said, Edwards signed with the last of the Celtics cap room.

They went over the cap when they officially signed Kanter with the room exception.
 

Imbricus

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At the beginning of the regular season, the Celtics must...
1. Guarantee the contract. Then it is a regular minimum contract that counts against the cap and takes up a roster slot. or
2. Convert the contract to a two way contract or
3. Waive Tacko. Then he can be signed to a G-league contract and if he stays with the Red Claws for 60 days he gets the 50K. The Celtics no longer have his NBA rights if they do number 3. and any team can offer him a contract and sign him if they want.
Thanks, SJ. This is exactly what I was looking for.

This doesn't sound great though. They've already got two guys on two-way contracts, and that's all they get right? And they don't seem to want to put him on the roster. If they waive him, that leaves him open for some other team to poach, right?
 

JohnnyTheBone

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Thanks, SJ. This is exactly what I was looking for.

This doesn't sound great though. They've already got two guys on two-way contracts, and that's all they get right? And they don't seem to want to put him on the roster. If they waive him, that leaves him open for some other team to poach, right?
My guess is that Max "Dizzazz" Strus is not long for the team. They'll waive him and give the 2-way contract to Tacko.
 

mcpickl

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My guess is that Max "Dizzazz" Strus is not long for the team. They'll waive him and give the 2-way contract to Tacko.
My guess is Max "No Nickname Needed" Strus stays on his two way, one of Tacko/Waters is their 15th guy and the other is the second two way guy.
 

benhogan

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At the beginning of the regular season, the Celtics must...
1. Guarantee the contract. Then it is a regular minimum contract that counts against the cap and takes up a roster slot. or
2. Convert the contract to a two way contract or
3. Waive Tacko. Then he can be signed to a G-league contract and if he stays with the Red Claws for 60 days he gets the 50K. The Celtics no longer have his NBA rights if they do number 3. and any team can offer him a contract and sign him if they want.
Thank you Smokey Joe, Ed Jurak and mcpickl.

I think option 3 means the end of the Tacko Celtic era...Between Europe, China leagues or an NBA rebuilder, he'll have better offers/opportunities then stick around for $50k.

I'm with JohnnyBones.
How much projection is left in 23yr old Max Struss, who looked defensively slow in Vegas which means he'd be an absolute statue in the NBA?
 

mcpickl

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Thank you Smokey Joe, Ed Jurak and mcpickl.

I think option 3 means the end of the Tacko Celtic era...Between Europe, China leagues or an NBA rebuilder, he'll have better offers/opportunities then stick around for $50k.

I'm with JohnnyBones.
How much projection is left in 23yr old Max Struss, who looked defensively slow in Vegas which means he'd be an absolute statue in the NBA?
About the same amount as when they signed him a whole month ago.

Seems unlikely they wouldn't even let the guy get through opening day after signing him, especially when they don't need the roster spot.
 

TripleOT

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My guess is Max "No Nickname Needed" Strus stays on his two way, one of Tacko/Waters is their 15th guy and the other is the second two way guy.
Tacko Fall is the one who doesn't need a nickname. "Dizzazz" Strus is an awesome one for Max doubters.
 

Jimbodandy

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My guess is Max "No Nickname Needed" Strus stays on his two way, one of Tacko/Waters is their 15th guy and the other is the second two way guy.
I like the sound of this. And despite being a crazy Tacko fan, Waters is probably closest to being potential emergency roster help next year. For what he can do, he is more NBA ready imo. Strus and Tacko need seasoning before being at all useful. Waters to the 15, and Tacko/Strus on the 2ways. From your lips to Danny's ears.
 

benhogan

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About the same amount as when they signed him a whole month ago.

Seems unlikely they wouldn't even let the guy get through opening day after signing him, especially when they don't need the roster spot.
that's fine... Apple Strus doesn't see the snowmelt in Maine next Spring
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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No.

As Eddie Jurak said, Edwards signed with the last of the Celtics cap room.

They went over the cap when they officially signed Kanter with the room exception.
I think Javonte Green got the last part of the Cs cap. Going from memory, they actually had some room left but when they signed Kanter it disappeared - of course, my memory could very well be faulty.
 

benhogan

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I think Javonte Green got the last part of the Cs cap. Going from memory, they actually had some room left but when they signed Kanter it disappeared - of course, my memory could very well be faulty.
I thought they had $1.1MM for the 15th spot after Edwards signed, extended Yabu, and they rescinded Theis?

 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Thank you Smokey Joe, Ed Jurak and mcpickl.

I think option 3 means the end of the Tacko Celtic era...Between Europe, China leagues or an NBA rebuilder, he'll have better offers/opportunities then stick around for $50k.

I'm with JohnnyBones.
How much projection is left in 23yr old Max Struss, who looked defensively slow in Vegas which means he'd be an absolute statue in the NBA?
Tacko could have signed with any team anywhere before signing with the Cs. He still needs a ton of work and the worse thing he could do for his development is sign a NBA contract and sit on the bench for a year. Also, Tacko targeted the Cs when he signed and nothing has changed along those lines.

My guess is that Tacko plays the 60 days in Maine, picks up the $50K, and re-evaluates. Strus and Waters remains the two-way players. It will be interesting to see what happens when the 60 days are up.

Strus has a NBA-ready body (and we know how DA likes those) and appears to be a NBA-level shooter. Plus he plays super hard. Granted he's not 7'6" and can't dunk a ball on his tip toes but he's perfectly cromulent for a two-way player.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I thought they had $1.1MM for the 15th spot after Edwards signed, extended Yabu, and they rescinded Theis?

OK, you made me look it up. I might be wrong about the following but I believe the Cs had $1.1M for their 15th spot after they rescinded Theis but once they resigned him, they are now over the cap. This article - https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/07/boston-celtics-officially-sign-tacko-fall-tremont-waters-max-strus-javonte-green.html - says that the Cs are out of cap space and SportsTrac has them about $10MM over the salary cap line.

Will defer to anyone who actually knows what they are talking about.
 

benhogan

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Tacko could have signed with any team anywhere before signing with the Cs. He still needs a ton of work and the worse thing he could do for his development is sign a NBA contract and sit on the bench for a year. Also, Tacko targeted the Cs when he signed and nothing has changed along those lines.

My guess is that Tacko plays the 60 days in Maine, picks up the $50K, and re-evaluates. Strus and Waters remains the two-way players. It will be interesting to see what happens when the 60 days are up.

Strus has a NBA-ready body (and we know how DA likes those) and appears to be a NBA-level shooter. Plus he plays super hard. Granted he's not 7'6" and can't dunk a ball on his tip toes but he's perfectly cromulent for a two-way player.
if he signed an NBA deal, couldn't he still play in Maine
 

benhogan

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OK, you made me look it up. I might be wrong about the following but I believe the Cs had $1.1M for their 15th spot after they rescinded Theis but once they resigned him, they are now over the cap. This article - https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/07/boston-celtics-officially-sign-tacko-fall-tremont-waters-max-strus-javonte-green.html - says that the Cs are out of cap space and SportsTrac has them about $10MM over the salary cap line.

Will defer to anyone who actually knows what they are talking about.
I was going off that article when I suggested signing Tacko for that 15th spot (and it was before they signed Green)

BUT I'd defer to the cap wizards around here
 

Cellar-Door

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My guess is Tacko does not get the 15th roster spot. If they really like him, it would make more sense to convert Strus or Waters to the 15th roster spot since both are borderline NBA players, and put Fall who is not on the 2 way.

Tacko is intriguing, but Strus and Waters are both miles ahead of him right now, he's probably at least 2 years away from being an NBA bench player.
 

Big John

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I'd prefer someone like Kenneth Faried, Jonas Jerebko or Jon Leuer for that 15th roster spot. Tacko is a curiosity, not an NBA player. If you want a big tall guy Salah Mejri and Donatas Motiejunas are both available.
 
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TripleOT

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I'd prefer someone like Kenneth Faried, Jonas Jewrebko or Jon Leuer for that 15th roster spot. Tacko is a curiosity, not an NBA player. If you want a big tall guy Salah Mejri and Donatas Motiejunas are both available.
The reason to try to develop Fall is to try to make him into a taller Rudy Gobert. That's a tall order, since Gobert really moves well on the floor for a plus seven footer, and is a much more fluid athlete. There's very little chance the 15th play on this year's roster is going to impact the team much on the court. I'd rather use the slot to develop Fall than on a guy who is going to get even token minutes in the rotation. There's plenty of depth on this team 1-13 to cover all the rotation minutes.

Fall could impact a couple of wins by defending the last second inbound pass. If he could stick until December, Fall would also be great at installing the star at the top of the office Christmas tree.
 

Big John

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A guy like Faried or Jerebko could impact a couple of wins too. Fall will never be Rudy Gobert. In fact, I doubt if he will ever be Vincent Poirier.
 

chilidawg

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Fall could impact a couple of wins by defending the last second inbound pass. If he could stick until December, Fall would also be great at installing the star at the top of the office Christmas tree.
I keep hearing this, but only 13 guys are active each game. If Fall is the 13th guys like RW and Langford are going to be inactive.

We'll kind of miss Yabu as the designated inactive guy.:)
 

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There are plenty of injuries and days off during the season. I expect Fall would dress for a bunch of games if he were on the roster.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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A guy like Faried or Jerebko could impact a couple of wins too. Fall will never be Rudy Gobert. In fact, I doubt if he will ever be Vincent Poirier.
I know we have a pretty broad spectrum of win total predictions here but there is simply no statistical argument that giving a roster spot and any minutes to these guys will "impact a couple of wins". Put simply, these guys are the definition of "league average".

If you are a veteran team like the Rockets or the Warriors who have designs on going deep into the post-season and have a limited budget to fill in holes, Manimal is ok as an very undersized big with waning athleticism who can do some "bigs" things. Jerebko is a very different player whose main value is that he can stretch the floor on offense but gives back everything he does on defense if not more.

Houston and Golden State were bargain shopping and had enough other pieces to cover for these players pretty glaring deficiencies. The '19-20 Celtics are a young team and if you believe they have upside, its going to come from the development of their young core. As such, arguing for them to sign older players who don't really do anything special to take minutes away from the kids seems silly. Perhaps Ainge sees it your way but I would be very surprised if he went after either of these players.

Mejri is interesting in that he is a decent defender/rim protector but he is also the oldest guy on your list so the idea of him taking even garbage minutes away from younger players seems like a waste with this roster.
 

HomeRunBaker

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A guy like Faried or Jerebko could impact a couple of wins too. Fall will never be Rudy Gobert. In fact, I doubt if he will ever be Vincent Poirier.
1. Neither would ever agree to be signed as a 15th man.

2. By definition, 15th men don’t dress for games unless their are 2 injuries in which case they would be “13th men.”

3. How many 13th man play any non-garbage time minutes?
 

lovegtm

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The whole “couple of wins” thing is kind of ridiculous. If you have a guy who is, literally, adding a couple of marginal wins to your team every year, you’re not having debates about whether he should be on the team.

The logic doesn’t work because defending the inbounder in that way isn’t a guarantee—maybe it adds a percentage point or two to your odds. And then you get a few games each year in which the situation even comes into play, and so on.

If the Celtics think Tacko can be a player, great, but this other stuff isn’t the reason to be developing him.
 

Big John

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1. Neither would ever agree to be signed as a 15th man.
So you think they'd rather go to Europe, like Greg Monroe? What team is going to sign either Faried or Jerebko with a guarantee of being in the rotation?
I suppose it depends on whether or not you think the Celtics have a puncher's chance of winning the EC or if you think they are back in "develop the kids" mode like Memphis or Phoenix.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So you think they'd rather go to Europe, like Greg Monroe? What team is going to sign either Faried or Jerebko with a guarantee of being in the rotation?
I suppose it depends on whether or not you think the Celtics have a puncher's chance of winning the EC or if you think they are back in "develop the kids" mode like Memphis or Phoenix.
There is plenty of space between a Top 9-10 rotation spot and the 15th man who isn’t going to dress for games. This is why most/all playoff contenders utilize a min salary slot for 15 opposed to the sliding min scale for a veteran as they are by definition 5-6 slots away from seeing rotation minutes.
 

Big John

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You bring your best 20 into camp, cut down to 15, and play whichever guys earn rotation minutes. If veterans don't think they can earn minutes on this year's Celtics team, then they must think pretty highly of the current roster.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You bring your best 20 into camp, cut down to 15, and play whichever guys earn rotation minutes. If veterans don't think they can earn minutes on this year's Celtics team, then they must think pretty highly of the current roster.
Yeah, that’s not how it works.
 

Big John

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So which teams have open roster spots and will be favored over the Celtics? I don't believe any consensus contenders have spots, and none of them can pay more than the minimum. So tell me how it works for guys like Faried who are currently out in the cold.
 

lovegtm

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So which teams have open roster spots and will be favored over the Celtics? I don't believe any consensus contenders have spots, and none of them can pay more than the minimum. So tell me how it works for guys like Faried who are currently out in the cold.
He was referring to the “bring 20 guys to camp” part, which, as mentioned, is not how it works.

Generally the guys who are out in the cold see if anything is happening, and if it’s not, their agent starts making/taking calls in Europe and China so that they can accumulate a few more million while they still have earning power.
 

Big John

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The curent veterans minimum for a player like Faried with 8 years' experience is $2,165,481 for the first year. So you think that CSKA Moscow or the Beijing Ducks are going to pay more?
 

OurF'ingCity

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The curent veterans minimum for a player like Faried with 8 years' experience is $2,165,481 for the first year. So you think that CSKA Moscow or the Beijing Ducks are going to pay more?
I think the point is that players have no choice but to look to Europe (or China) if NBA teams aren't even willing to offer them a minimum contract. It's either that or sit around and hope you get a call when someone on another team gets injured or traded, but then you're not making any money in that period.