That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
It was fun, though. Even though they lost, that NJ series was an absolute blast.
That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
It was fun, though. Even though they lost, that NJ series was an absolute blast.
Gotta imagine Al's backside is so big by now that it's a rim protector all on its own.Next move has to be bringing in Joe’s Big3 teammate, Al Jefferson himself.
The Celtics have the minimum 8 players healthy to keep playing games. The signings are to lengthen the bench, not get them up to the 8 player minimum.I apologize if I missed it in another thread, but why is it that the celtics are signing the likes of Joe Johnson & CJ Miles in order to play games, while other games are getting PPD?
I figured it was something along those lines, I just hadn't seen it spelled out...appreciate the quick info.The Celtics have the minimum 8 players healthy to keep playing games. The signings are to lengthen the bench, not get them up to the 8 player minimum.
He was before his time in knowing that 3 was a bigger number than 2That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
He probably also knew that there was no stopping Antoine, so he went all-in.He was before his time in knowing that 3 was a bigger number than 2
Pick Hedo Turkoglu or Michael Redd instead of Jerome Moiso?If Brad's goal is to undo all the bad moves from the past twenty years, then...who else can he bring back?
Once Jordan retired in 98 the EC was pretty awful up until the Celtics Big 3 era, with LeBron coming into the fold as well. Outside of those Pistons teams the East lacked true top teams; save for that wacky Heat team that won the Finals thanks to some generous refereeing.That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
Terry Rozier.If Brad's goal is to undo all the bad moves from the past twenty years, then...who else can he bring back?
Gonna be awkward when Acie Earl walks through that door next week.He’s wearing #55
One of my all-time favorite teams in any sport. The quintessential overachievers. It helps I was going through a memorable period working part-time at MIT while re-taking Calc 4 at Tufts in order to stay on track to graduate with my class.That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
That's great. Not quite Ron Borges level non-prescient journalism, but up there.https://www.igtc.com/archives/celtics/2003/Apr/msg00079.html
excerpt:
NOTES
>
> O'Brien has faith in his long shots
>
>
> By Peter May, Globe Staff, 4/6/2003
>
> You watch the Celtics play these days and you wonder: Can Jim O'Brien
> actually enjoy what he's seeing? I'm not talking about the wins or
> losses or the good nights or the bad nights. I'm talking about the style
> they play, mainly on offense, which has them jacking up 3-pointers at a
> record clip.
>
>
>
> Isn't this the same Jim O'Brien who came out of ultra-traditional
> Philadelphia, like so many of his NBA predecessors and colleagues? Isn't
> this the same man who calls his father-in-law, Hall of Famer Jack
> Ramsay, for coaching advice? The answers are yes and yes.
Jeezus, I knew that Forte was a total bust, but I didn’t realize he only played 8 games and scored 1 basket for the Celtics (along with 4 free throws). He was a BUST. Thanks again, Red.That's quite a roster that Obrien got to the semis.
To be fair, he was pretty solid in the the Iranian Super LeagueJeezus, I knew that Forte was a total bust, but I didn’t realize he only played 8 games and scored 1 basket for the Celtics (along with 4 free throws). He was a BUST. Thanks again, Red.
Wallace eats all sorts of shit for that draft. They can blame Red for Forte, despite Red having no power at the time, but Kedrick at #11...oof.Jeezus, I knew that Forte was a total bust, but I didn’t realize he only played 8 games and scored 1 basket for the Celtics (along with 4 free throws). He was a BUST. Thanks again, Red.
I don’t understand how Wallace gets hammered for that draft. Two mid-late lottery picks and one turns into a borderline HOFer. There were like a dozen complete busts in the Top-20 that year too. Kedrick didn’t pan out but that’s the ideal physical profile you want to be taking in the mid-low lottery…..not an Olynyk or Nick Collison. People forget that Kawhi Leonard left college being unable to dribble or understand how to create his own shot but was a freakish Kedrick Brown-like athlete. His draft rights were traded for George Hill’s when he was selected and nobody batted an eye. Success goes to the bold…….you succeed in this league picking Kawhi and Kedrick in the low lottery and not the so-called “safe” picks. Those guys are good for keeping the GM’s off the hot seat by picking “solid” players but you aren’t going to win crap.Wallace eats all sorts of shit for that draft. They can blame Red for Forte, despite Red having no power at the time, but Kedrick at #11...oof.
I think he gets hammered less for the Brown pick and more for his third pick. The Celtics went into that draft needing a PG and decided that the thing to do was to try to make a PG out of Joe Forte (a kid who was full of himself, was not a PG, and was not interested in being a PG) rather than look to available PG options such as... Tony Parker. I think it is also reasonable to wonder what makes you take Kedrick over Richard Jefferson. But I'll grant that this wasn't a great draft and they certainly hit on Johnson.I don’t understand how Wallace gets hammered for that draft. Two mid-late lottery picks and one turns into a borderline HOFer. There were like a dozen complete busts in the Top-20 that year too. Kedrick didn’t pan out but that’s the ideal physical profile you want to be taking in the mid-low lottery…..not an Olynyk or Nick Collison. People forget that Kawhi Leonard left college being unable to dribble or understand how to create his own shot but was a freakish Kedrick Brown-like athlete. His draft rights were traded for George Hill’s when he was selected and nobody batted an eye. Success goes to the bold…….you succeed in this league picking Kawhi and Kedrick in the low lottery and not the so-called “safe” picks. Those guys are good for keeping the GM’s off the hot seat by picking “solid” players but you aren’t going to win crap.
He did very little right.It’s been awhile, but did Rick Pitino do anything right as GM? Trading away Billups and Johnson - do we have other examples of giving up way too early on young players. Did he draft Pierce? If I recall, Pierce really fell - so getting him where we did seemed like a no brainer at the time. Of course, that worked out really, really well.
Ah yes I forgot that was the Forte/Parker draft too. I’ve told the story in the past of my roommate just out of college who had ties to the UNC program (told me of the McInnis and Mrs Phil Ford affair as it was in progress). He’s sitting next to me on draft night and says something like “I sure hope your team doesn’t draft Forte” as the next words from the television came……”with the (?) pick, the Boston Celtics select…..” He stood up, walked in front of me to leave the room and laughed. One of those moments you don’t ever forget.I think he gets hammered less for the Brown pick and more for his third pick. The Celtics went into that draft needing a PG and decided that the thing to do was to try to make a PG out of Joe Forte (a kid who was full of himself, was not a PG, and was not interested in being a PG) rather than look to available PG options such as... Tony Parker. I think it is also reasonable to wonder what makes you take Kedrick over Richard Jefferson. But I'll grant that this wasn't a great draft and they certainly hit on Johnson.
I also think that, over the longer-term, the near-immediate decision to trade their one hit in that draft for generic veteran help has impacted perception of the draft.
You sure about that? My recollection is that the Denver pick was only top 3 protected in 2002 and top 1 protected in 2003, the Carmelo year. Thus, I believe the Celtics missed out on the Tsktishvilli 2002 #5 pick and not the Melo one the following year since it's highly unlikely that they would have turned down a top 5 pick in 2002 and rolled it forward. Could have landed Amare or Caron Butler though so definitely some pain with the Kedrick pick.Chris Wallace should be excoriated for that draft because he didn't need to exercise the Denver pick that year. It would have rolled over and been unprotected had he not exercised it, but he decided to use it anyway despite already having two other first round picks. Wallace knew he was likely a short-timer, so he did what was best for him, instead of best for the organization's long-term future.
That future Denver pick, of course, would have been Carmelo Anthony.
I think the play should have been to roll it forward until unprotected, thus landing Carmelo, who had just won an NCAA championship with the greatest individual performance I'd ever seen. I've been seething about it for two decades. Chris Wallace is the Notorious P.I.G.You sure about that? My recollection is that the Denver pick was only top 3 protected in 2002 and top 1 protected in 2003, the Carmelo year. Thus, I believe the Celtics missed out on the Tsktishvilli 2002 #5 pick and not the Melo one the following year since it's highly unlikely that they would have turned down a top 5 pick in 2002 and rolled it forward. Could have landed Amare or Caron Butler though so definitely some pain with the Kedrick pick.
Let me add to the litany Pitino errors -He did very little right.
Good memory.You sure about that? My recollection is that the Denver pick was only top 3 protected in 2002 and top 1 protected in 2003, the Carmelo year. Thus, I believe the Celtics missed out on the Tsktishvilli 2002 #5 pick and not the Melo one the following year since it's highly unlikely that they would have turned down a top 5 pick in 2002 and rolled it forward. Could have landed Amare or Caron Butler though so definitely some pain with the Kedrick pick.
https://extras.denverpost.com/nuggets/nugs0317.htmBoston obtained the rights during a six-player trade Aug. 3, 1999, that involved Ron Mercer coming to the Nuggets and Danny Fortson going to the Celtics. If Boston rejects the pick, the selection would be protected for Denver in 2002 if it is the overall third pick or better, or the No. 1 pick in '03. There would be no protection in 2004.
Wallace already had two first-rounders that year, though. Just roll it over, fer crissakes!The 2000-01 Nuggets looked like a team on the rise with 40 wins (up form 35 the year before and 14 before that) and a core of Antonio McDyess, Nick Van Exel, and Raef LaFrentz. Wallace sucked, but it was a solid gamble that the pick was as good as it would get for a while, I can’t fault him for not knowing all 3 would suffer moderate to severe injuries.
They definitely should have rolled it over in 2001. That was just incredibly dumb.Wallace already had two first-rounders that year, though. Just roll it over, fer crissakes!
Of course, he signed Travis Knight to begin with. I remember being very frustrated the Celts didn’t have any cap room to bring in good players and Pitino went out and gave a - at the time - huge contract to a back up center.He did very little right.
1. Drafted Billups (hit) and Mercer (miss), then gave up on Billups to acquire Kenny Anderson.
2. Draft Pierce, which was, as you say, a no brainer. The real gift to the Celtics in this draft was Milwaukee's desire to acquire Robert Tractor Traylor with the #6 pick. The Celtics' wanted Dirk, who went one pick ahead of Pierce and would also have been a great selection had he been the one to slip to the C;'s.
3. He picked up Tony Battie for Travis Knight, which is a modest win.
4. He traded the draft pick that became Andre Miller to Cleveland for Vitaly Potapenko.
Pitino was gone by 2001. The 2001 draft was all Chris Wallace.
One pre-Pitino mistake that doesn't get enough attention: during the terrible ML Carr year (1996-97), they signed a smallish-for-the-time center (6'9") who was very good for them in summar league. But they didn't view him as an NBA center - viewed him as a forward who could not function on the perimeter. They didn't sign him and he ultimately signed with the Wizards, where he barely played that first year.
The Celtics ran out this group of centers during the tankathon (15-67) year: Steve Hamer (7'0", their second round pick), Alton Lister (7'0" end of the trail veteran), Stacey King (6'11" end of the trail draft bust), Dino Radja (6'11"), Brett Szabo (6'11" rookie whose 662 minutes that year were his only NBA minutes ever), Marty Conlon (6'10" NBA end of bench big), Frank Brickowski (6'9" end of the trail vet), "Out of Service" Pervis Ellison (6'9", played in games that year and missed the next year completely).
Meanwhile, the guy who they cut because he was too short to be an NBA center went on to be Ben Wallace.
Meh. If you think the pick is as good as it will get, you exercise it, especially a somewhat high pick. More bites at the apple and all that. It’s not like they had a loaded team and roster spots were scarce.Wallace already had two first-rounders that year, though. Just roll it over, fer crissakes!
This.They definitely should have rolled it over in 2001. That was just incredibly dumb.
Agree to disagree.Meh. If you think the pick is as good as it will get, you exercise it, especially a somewhat high pick. More bites at the apple and all that. It’s not like they had a loaded team and roster spots were scarce.
Had the pick been Tony Parker would we stillMeh. If you think the pick is as good as it will get, you exercise it, especially a somewhat high pick. More bites at the apple and all that. It’s not like they had a loaded team and roster spots were scarce.
If I'm ever in legal trouble, I'll want a lawyer who defends me like you defend Chris Wallace.Had the pick been Tony Parker would we still
Be discussing today how Wallace should have not exercised the pick? We don’t know how much influence Red still had then but we all know the story about Red and his desire for Forte too. Lots of moving parts here.
He’s always done the job that he was hired to do very well and that is managing the bottom line, cap/tax implications and answering to his bosses. The GM job isn’t always about Championships or even Wins and Losses. He was also magnificent for many years in Memphis under circumstances so challenging that most wouldn’t have made it out of their second year.If I'm ever in legal trouble, I'll want a lawyer who defends me like you defend Chris Wallace.
For the record, this isn't second-guessing on my part. No hindsight involved. I was very pissed at the time of the draft. I could not believe that they decided to exercise the Denver pick when they already had two first-rounders that year, and watched in horror as that would-be pick eventually became Carmelo Anthony.If I'm ever in legal trouble, I'll want a lawyer who defends me like you defend Chris Wallace.
If I'm ever in legal trouble, I'll want a lawyer who defends me like you defend Chris Wallace.
I'm not going to defend the Chris Wallace era, as results matter. However, keep in mind that he was working for one of the league's worst owners, an entitled prick that inherited the team and literally put zero money into it. At one point he forbade the GM from going above the NBA's bare minimum roster size, costing the team some wins as a result.He’s always done the job that he was hired to do very well and that is managing the bottom line, cap/tax implications and answering to his bosses. The GM job isn’t always about Championships or even Wins and Losses. He was also magnificent for many years in Memphis under circumstances so challenging that most wouldn’t have made it out of their second year.