Celtics sign Al Horford to a 2-year extension

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At the 35:30 mark, Horford begins speaking on what I’ve preached since people began discussing individual defensive metrics on how your teammates affect not only your defense but the defensive set as a whole.
Love the part where Redick talks about how happy he'd be when Belinelli was in the game with him, so he wasn't the only one targeted by the C's.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Love the part where Redick talks about how happy he'd be when Belinelli was in the game with him, so he wasn't the only one targeted by the C's.
That was fantastic! Redick has most definitely found a niche in his post-playing career.
 

benhogan

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At the 35:30 mark, Horford begins speaking on what I’ve preached since people began discussing individual defensive metrics on how your teammates affect not only your defense but the defensive set as a whole.
Agreed. JJ is awesome at this. Although the bar is pretty low with very few ex-players giving exceptional commentary or embracing advanced analytics.

We've seen Tatum, Smart, Brown, & Horford's defense is EXPONENTIALLY better when playing next to Timelord and not Kemba or IT.

Put one BAD defender on an NBA floor (esp in the playoffs) and it greatly affects the other 4

Put one BAD offensive player on an NBA floor and make him a screening, ball-moving, rolling, & rebounding/lay-up machine.

the 5th offensive player (mostly a Center these days) on the floor should be a +++ defender
 
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HomeRunBaker

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the 5th offensive player (mostly a Center these days) on the floor should be a +++ defender
This statement speaks to the e disputes about end of game lineups and how Joe will look too the defensive matchup carrying much greater weight than who is on the weak side when Tatum/Jaylen have the ball in their hands. Quicker guards will see White, bigger more physical ones will get Brogdon.
 

benhogan

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This statement speaks to the e disputes about end of game lineups and how Joe will look too the defensive matchup carrying much greater weight than who is on the weak side when Tatum/Jaylen have the ball in their hands. Quicker guards will see White, bigger more physical ones will get Brogdon.
They can really match up with anyone. CJM has tons of flexibility. Well designed for the playoffs.

While probably unattainable at the trade deadline (Toronto 1st > 2 Boston 1sts), Poeltl was that final missing piece for insurance/match-up purposes. They can still get away with it pending TLs health.
 

MannyRam

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Al was low key (as usual) super important in game 1 with a number of clutch moments on both ends.

Trying to stay in the present but given we know the end is near, been thinking a lot about how we replace the unicorn that is Al.

After seeing Markkanen's emergence this year, been racking my brain over who could be the next big to take off with the right fit/opportunity.

Zach Collins perhaps? I know he can't hedge on the perimeter (again replacing a unicorn is hard) but feel like he might be a potential option.
 

NomarsFool

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Al had a killer 3P right when things were looking like they almost were getting too close for comfort. His 3P% has been amazing this year but on top of that, they almost always seem to be big moments
 

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Al was low key (as usual) super important in game 1 with a number of clutch moments on both ends.

Trying to stay in the present but given we know the end is near, been thinking a lot about how we replace the unicorn that is Al.

After seeing Markkanen's emergence this year, been racking my brain over who could be the next big to take off with the right fit/opportunity.

Zach Collins perhaps? I know he can't hedge on the perimeter (again replacing a unicorn is hard) but feel like he might be a potential option.
Al signed a dirt cheap two year extension. His game should hold up at lease somewhat well baring injury. They should be thinking about drafting/developing his replacement, not paying one with where the CBA is headed. I’d also bet there is a gentleman’s “NTC”
 

HomeRunBaker

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Al signed a dirt cheap two year extension. His game should hold up at lease somewhat well baring injury. They should be thinking about drafting/developing his replacement, not paying one with where the CBA is headed. I’d also bet there is a gentleman’s “NTC”
Something tells me we haven’t seen the last of Kelly Olynyk in Boston. Just a hunch. He’s the type of player who will be available without having to give up the farm that can do much of what Horford’s role consists of as a stretch 4/5.
 

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Something tells me we haven’t seen the last of Kelly Olynyk in Boston. Just a hunch. He’s the type of player who will be available without having to give up the farm that can do much of what Horford’s role consists of as a stretch 4/5.
A big rotation on TL, Al and KO would cover just about every situation(outside of big unicorns) like the 3 guards do. I want to speculate on how but let’s get this championship so we can discuss our rich people problems later ha
 

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View: https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1657873045900644355?cxt=HHwWhsDS-Yuw-YEuAAAA


I feel similarly. The fact the Horford has only made one All-Defense team in his career is a joke. I was thinking today he's the anti-Gobert. A dude who gets no regular season award love whose defense plays up in the playoffs due to his intelligence and mobility. Up there on the list of guys on this team (with Smart) who deserve to win a title. Switchable Al is the straw that stirs the drink on defense for this team.
 

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View: https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1657873045900644355?cxt=HHwWhsDS-Yuw-YEuAAAA


I feel similarly. The fact the Horford has only made one All-Defense team in his career is a joke. I was thinking today he's the anti-Gobert. A dude who gets no regular season award love whose defense plays up in the playoffs due to his intelligence and mobility. Up there on the list of guys on this team (with Smart) who deserve to win a title. Switchable Al is the straw that stirs the drink on defense for this team.
Horford is a case of a guy who was ahead of the curve, he was Draymond before Draymond, didn't get enough blocks for dumb people to think he was an elite defender, but could guard everyone above 6'4 in the league on a switch.
 

lovegtm

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With the way guys' careers have been extending, and the care Al takes of himself, I feel extremely good about his next contract.
 

shoelace

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Horford is a case of a guy who was ahead of the curve, he was Draymond before Draymond, didn't get enough blocks for dumb people to think he was an elite defender, but could guard everyone above 6'4 in the league on a switch.
This is why the discourse around the All Defense and DPOY stuff is so dumb. Lots of media people feel like rim protection is more quantifiable analytically than what guys like Al and Draymond bring, and so we end up with Gobert as 3 time DPOY. More egregious is a guy like Pat Beverly having more defensive awards than Horford, but still.

Dude turns in defensive masterpieces regularly and does not get anywhere near the credit he deserves.
 

JakeRae

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This is why the discourse around the All Defense and DPOY stuff is so dumb. Lots of media people feel like rim protection is more quantifiable analytically than what guys like Al and Draymond bring, and so we end up with Gobert as 3 time DPOY. More egregious is a guy like Pat Beverly having more defensive awards than Horford, but still.

Dude turns in defensive masterpieces regularly and does not get anywhere near the credit he deserves.
I don’t think Horford has ever defended at this level in the regular season. He’s an elite defensive player in the postseason and deserves more credit for that, but he has never been close to deserving a DPOY award that I can recall.
 

shoelace

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I don’t think Horford has ever defended at this level in the regular season. He’s an elite defensive player in the postseason and deserves more credit for that, but he has never been close to deserving a DPOY award that I can recall.
I don't entirely disagree, my point isn't that he should win DPOY. He should have won several more All-Defense awards, which would bolster his HOF case. My point is that Rudy Gobert and guys like him should not have as many awards as they do.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don’t think Horford has ever defended at this level in the regular season. He’s an elite defensive player in the postseason and deserves more credit for that, but he has never been close to deserving a DPOY award that I can recall.
yeah, I do think he should have made way more All-Defense, his impact is pretty amazing in the regular season, positional play, communication etc. He makes the whole defense better.
 

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yeah, I do think he should have made way more All-Defense, his impact is pretty amazing in the regular season, positional play, communication etc. He makes the whole defense better.
His defense reminds me of Pierce in terms of being a very good defender who has an ability to elevate in the playoffs. I’m really not sure Horford deserved all defense awards either, but don’t mean that to take away from how valuable he is defensively.

Horford is a lock for the basketball HoF though. His college career removes any doubt before even considering the shoring up of his case he can still accomplish over the next several years.
 

shoelace

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His defense reminds me of Pierce in terms of being a very good defender who has an ability to elevate in the playoffs. I’m really not sure Horford deserved all defense awards either, but don’t mean that to take away from how valuable he is defensively.

Horford is a lock for the basketball HoF though. His college career removes any doubt before even considering the shoring up of his case he can still accomplish over the next several years.
I mean, Matisse Thybulle has more All Defense awards, including a season where he played 20 MPG. The voting on that award has been dogshit around the margins pretty consistently. Al should have been on 4-5 more teams and deserved to be a DPOY finalist a few times. He has been a crucial part of some elite defensive teams.
 

Cellar-Door

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His defense reminds me of Pierce in terms of being a very good defender who has an ability to elevate in the playoffs. I’m really not sure Horford deserved all defense awards either, but don’t mean that to take away from how valuable he is defensively.

Horford is a lock for the basketball HoF though. His college career removes any doubt before even considering the shoring up of his case he can still accomplish over the next several years.
I disagree on this, I think people notice more in the playoffs because he's locking down superstars, I think any doubt anybody had should have gone away in that OKC year where he was legit so important to making that D work they sent him home and everyone else's defense tanked without him out there calling the switches, telling guys where to be, and covering. Also look at the defense ranks of some of those teams in ATL that were playing Korver, Crawford, Lou Will... he tricked people into thinking Teague was a top defender.
 

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Watching Horford work on his game to make him effective even as he gets older needs to be studied. Video, interviews, observations from players and coaches—all of it.
 

gattman

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Watching Horford work on his game to make him effective even as he gets older needs to be studied. Video, interviews, observations from players and coaches—all of it.
It’s fascInating. Al’s footwork against Embiid was a master class. Embiid is obviously stronger& quicker but Horford knew what he was going to do. He made Embiid settle for the lowest % shot almost every time. And wore him down. He took away his will. And by the 4th Q Embiid was like a Hagler or Hopkins opponent
 

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I think he really has amped it up in the post-season. I'm not at all saying he was a bad defender during the regular season, but I feel pretty comfortable in saying that he is playing a different level now than he was earlier - which makes perfect sense. Al has been around, he knows that if he played all season like he has played against Philadelphia, then he wouldn't be able to hold up. He kept something in the tank for the Finals run.
 

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AL eliminates Embiid and Philly on the last year of the big FA contract the Sixers gave him.
 

benhogan

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Something tells me we haven’t seen the last of Kelly Olynyk in Boston. Just a hunch. He’s the type of player who will be available without having to give up the farm that can do much of what Horford’s role consists of as a stretch 4/5.
You think Utah would have interest in a Grant S&T this summer?
or
Gallinari + Pritchard for Kelly O?

Kelly would be a better piece for Boston as a win-now player and Utah could save a little $$$ with a DG buyout + capture a younger player in PP
 

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You think Utah would have interest in a Grant S&T this summer?
or
Gallinari + Pritchard for Kelly O?

Kelly would be a better piece for Boston as a win-now player and Utah could save a little $$$ with a DG buyout + capture a younger player in PP
I think Pritchard is destined to be traded to Utah. Ainge loved him and PP hasn’t done anything to make that love go away.

I think Gallinari+a 2nd+PP for Kelly O makes a lot of sense
 

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Olynyk would certainly be a decent Horford-minus option. Ideally you'd like to see a more flexible defender at that position but those guys aren't going to be clamoring for a 8th or 9th man slot, contender or no.
 

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Olynyk would certainly be a decent Horford-minus option. Ideally you'd like to see a more flexible defender at that position but those guys aren't going to be clamoring for a 8th or 9th man slot, contender or no.
I haven't put much thought on how Olynyk could be acquired but it's clear with the Muscala deal that Brad feels this is a role which needs to be addressed. He would be picture perfect for it.
 

TripleOT

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I haven't put much thought on how Olynyk could be acquired but it's clear with the Muscala deal that Brad feels this is a role which needs to be addressed. He would be picture perfect for it.
If Utah doesn’t guarantee KO’s $12 million salary by June 28th, they have to pay him $3 million. Olynyk can then ring chase in Boston. IDK if it’s accurate, but Spotrac says they have a $5 million taxpayer exemption for next year. Olynyk takes a $4 million haircut (ha) but contends for a championship.
 

TripleOT

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If Utah doesn’t guarantee KO’s $12 million salary by June 28th, they have to pay him $3 million. Olynyk can then ring chase in Boston. IDK if it’s accurate, but Spotrac says they have a $5 million taxpayer exemption for next year. Olynyk takes a $4 million haircut (ha) but contends for a championship.
Or Utah guarantees him and gives him a buyout in season so he can join the Celtics for a playoff run