They play at the Dean Dome--I'm thinking of bailing out of work early and driving 3.5 hours to watch...
Celtics in 18-19
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
So you are basically wishing for hm to become Lebron James from inside 10 ft. Good luck with that
No, because in his heyday LeBron shot better than .700 in that range while being Cleveland’s offense.So you are basically wishing for hm to become Lebron James from inside 10 ft. Good luck with that
Last year Pascal Siakam shot .675 on those shots. That don’t make him LeBron. Playing off of Irving and Hayward is going to open the floor up for Tatum, so reaching .650 in his second year is certainly achievable.
Dead serious. I love Theis's game and thought he was sorely missed in the playoffs last season.
I sat across from Zach Lowe yesterday on the Acela. He got on in philly and off in nyc. He was writing but we had a nice chat. He was there to do a pod w Elton Brand and see the sixers. A couple take away: brand was funny, had been one of most open and insightful interviews but now is what wondering what he can and cannot say. Thinks Elton is a home run potential hire. Huge basketball iq and understanding what makes a team great. Zach think philly is building an elite front office around him now. Said embiid is in great shape. Said off the court he’s very shy and the gladiator persona is just an act. But nice guy. Also thinks Simmons is fine following last postseason.
He’s heading to Boston today or tomorrow. Heard Gordon looks very good. Said people forget how great he is and how he allows them so much flexibility. Is hoping for Boston v GSW, thinks could be epic series (despite “worst flight imaginable”).
He thinks Toronto has biggest delta in terms of performance and not sure they aren’t done turning over roster. I assumed this was about Lowry but didn’t get into it.
Nice guy and clearly someone who loves to talk hoops
He’s heading to Boston today or tomorrow. Heard Gordon looks very good. Said people forget how great he is and how he allows them so much flexibility. Is hoping for Boston v GSW, thinks could be epic series (despite “worst flight imaginable”).
He thinks Toronto has biggest delta in terms of performance and not sure they aren’t done turning over roster. I assumed this was about Lowry but didn’t get into it.
Nice guy and clearly someone who loves to talk hoops
I've been on board the Theis freight train since I saw this clip just a few moments after news broke that Ainge had signed him:
Brilliant!
First nagging injury of the season...
Boston CelticsVerified account @celtics
#NEBHInjuryReport Al Horford is OUT for tonight’s preseason game vs @hornets with a right wrist sprain.
Boston CelticsVerified account @celtics
#NEBHInjuryReport Al Horford is OUT for tonight’s preseason game vs @hornets with a right wrist sprain.
I'm in the minority here, but I'll continue to beat the drum of starting Baynes. Let Aron deliver/take the physical punishment down low and set the majority of screens/picks instead of Al.
I'd rather see Horford finish close games at Center. Wearing him down to a nub during the regular season against 5s (ie. Kaminsky/Zeller) in the First Quarter doesn't appeal to me.
Also wouldn't mind Gordon being brought back slowly the first month or two. Let him come off the bench and build up his minutes over the first half of the season.
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Why the need for kid gloves? Horford has spent his entire career defending the 5 and now has the luxury of Baynes and eventually (maybe) Williams around to spare him some minutes versus the few interior-only bigs remaining but those are few and far between. There is no need for Hayward on our second unit as there will be plenty of scoring on that unit with Rozier and Morris while not having any offensive zeros in that lineup. If that unit was super thin and we needed scoring for that second unit I'd reconsider but that isn't the case on this team. I see Hayward's role to be much more limited than what he's accustomed to being not dissimilar to what Ray Allen was when he was here..... less playmaking and more catch and shooting.
Last years
My Celtic confidence is sky high. This team could easily win 60 games playing a rotation of 10 and spreading the minutes evenly. I enjoy watching all of them play and want this team to be peaking and healthy for the playoffs.
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I think Baynes will spot start, against teams with big physical centers. Horford will start against everyone else though.
Lineup questions I have:
1. Will Stevens sub out a couple of his starters early and then bring them back to anchor the bench unit? I could see doing this with Tatum and Brown, for example.
2. Will we see much of Smart at PG? One would think that with Kyrie and Rozier, not much. But Smart, Brown, Horford, and a couple of forwards who can switch (or 1 and Baynes) would be the best defensive lineup they can roll out.
There will be plenty of scoring on the first unit too, no?
I don't understand the need to have the best five players start. Why only start Baynes against the "few interior-only bigs"? Why doesn't it make sense to play him as many of his minutes as possible against the opponents best big, who would usually be starting?
Do people forget the way in the distant past season of 2016-17, when the Celtics couldn't get a rebound? Why make that an issue again when you have a guy like Baynes who can really help erase your opponents best rebounders?
I'll never understand why the first six minutes of the game are so much more important than the following 42.
Agreed. Brad will match up Baynes against the other BIGS around the league.
Fully expect Brad to experiment will all sorts of different rotations and early substitutions.
I hope we see Smart playing some PG late in games if Brad goes situational (offense/defense). Smart, Brown, Tatum, Al, Baynes would be a helluva half-court defense if we needed a stop.
The "King of the EC hill" comment didn't come off well. I imagine most players watch ESPN/NBA TV and they see 90% of media pundits picking the Celtics to win the EC. The Celtics have a big bullseye on their backs this season. Most teams will be UP to get physical with the Celtics.
100% agree with mcpickl's take here.
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Probably because Horford is the far superior player. Why would you open the game by willingly losing the matchup against your opponents best big by playing a 15 mpg role player against him rather than your All-Star center?
Who is saying the first 6 are more important? All I'm saying is that you are severely overthinking this with a team with so much quality depth on its roster.
Horford does so much for the team beyond the box score. With the exception of Davis and maybe a few others, he’s the most versatile defensive big in the game. His ability to switch onto smaller players while also protecting the rim and helping on plays where a teammate has been beaten, is far more important than the ability to bang on the boards. He’s also a key component of the Celtics offense, with his combination of screen setting, passing and outside shooting that is critical for spacing.
Playing Baynes over Horford is a move that is made if you believe that the Celtics have a great luxury and don’t need Horford to do as much for them. The fact is Horford is a critical player for the Celtics, and while I’m all for conserving minutes in situations that make sense, Horford is still arguably the most important player on the Celtics and you don’t play a lesser player over him on a regular basis.
Playing Baynes over Horford is a move that is made if you believe that the Celtics have a great luxury and don’t need Horford to do as much for them. The fact is Horford is a critical player for the Celtics, and while I’m all for conserving minutes in situations that make sense, Horford is still arguably the most important player on the Celtics and you don’t play a lesser player over him on a regular basis.
A little misunderstanding here. No one suggested playing Baynes over Horford. The suggestion is to play Al at the 4 (big wing) half the time and play center the other half. Al would play the same amount of minutes. In theory, he'd be subjected to less regular season wear/tear from playing the big, physical centers that start for other NBA teams.
Why?? Today he’s easily the best passer and playmaker among the wings. I see him as the second perimeter ball handler when the top 5 are on the floor.
Why? Because when the ball isn't in Kyrie's hands the offense usually runs through Horford's in a motion offense where Tatum and Jaylen will also get their touches. It's a far different role than what he had in Utah when the offense ran through him almost exclusively. Just as Ray Allen's usage numbers took a big hit without the offense running through him as it did in Seattle (high 20's to 18-21) I expect a similar dropoff in Hayward's raw numbers due to a similar reduced usage as his role changes.
I disagree, I think Hayward's going to have the ball in his hands a ton. He's the key that unlocks Kyrie's potential as an off-ball scorer. Obviously, Kyrie will have the ball a lot, but they get to use him in so many more, unpredictable ways when there's a secondary creator on the floor.
And yes, they've used Horford as a hub in their offense before, and likely still will, but while he's an excellent passer, he's not a threat to put the ball on the floor and attack the defense the way that Hayward is. His passing is key, but he isn't really an offensive creator.
We've seen some of this already in the past two preseasons - e.g., actions where Kyrie screens for Hayward as the ball handler. Brad loves this stuff. As good as Kyrie is, the offense become much more dynamic and unpredictable if you take the ball out of his hands at times. I think we'll see a lot of Gordon Hayward as a pick-and-roll ball handler.
And yes, they've used Horford as a hub in their offense before, and likely still will, but while he's an excellent passer, he's not a threat to put the ball on the floor and attack the defense the way that Hayward is. His passing is key, but he isn't really an offensive creator.
We've seen some of this already in the past two preseasons - e.g., actions where Kyrie screens for Hayward as the ball handler. Brad loves this stuff. As good as Kyrie is, the offense become much more dynamic and unpredictable if you take the ball out of his hands at times. I think we'll see a lot of Gordon Hayward as a pick-and-roll ball handler.
I agree with this. Brown and Tatum can attack and make basic passes, but Hayward can make advanced passes. He draws attention and can set up others off that attention very well. It's pretty huge.
I don't disagree that we'll see the ball in Hayward's hands a lot. It will just be a lot less than he's accustomed to as the PRIMARY scorer and initiator that he was in Utah which will be a slight adjustment especially for the fans when he isn't putting up huge numbers.
We've also seen this in the first two games with Hayward being 7th on the team in FGA on Fri and 6th in FGA last night. Yes I understand he's still feeling his way back but the system is the system and we have a ton of shot creators on this team who will have the ball in their hands as well.
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I mostly agree with this, with the caveat that those numbers will also go up when he plays as the primary creator on bench units, which is pretty likely given his skillset. (He'll still start and close games, obviously).
One of the most fascinating lineup-related questions for me is how often Marcus Smart is on the floor at the end of close games. He's been a fixture there for years. Now, I think there's five guys on the team better than Smart - Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Horford, which is what I expect to be the starting five.
However, I bet we'll see Smart on the floor over Jaylen Brown more often than you'd think. As good as JB is, there's an argument that his skill set is replicated by Tatum, Hayward, or both. On the other hand, no one else can duplicate Smart's on-ball defense against opposing ball handlers. If the opponent has a point guard who's a primary scoring option, Smart has to be on the floor.
However, I bet we'll see Smart on the floor over Jaylen Brown more often than you'd think. As good as JB is, there's an argument that his skill set is replicated by Tatum, Hayward, or both. On the other hand, no one else can duplicate Smart's on-ball defense against opposing ball handlers. If the opponent has a point guard who's a primary scoring option, Smart has to be on the floor.
Isn't the second unit set with Rozier, Smart, Morris, Baynes, and Theis? Of course there will be injuries but I don't expect to see Hayward getting any more run with that unit as Tatum or Jaylen. The other obv factor on that unit is Rozier and Morris entering their FA summer......they will be getting up a ton of shots off the bench.
They've been mixing in starters with the 2nd unit in both preseason games, and that's very likely to continue. The 5 guys you mentioned really, really need an elite shot-creator/scoring threat on the floor to maximize their talents.
I love the idea of a crazy athletic 5 to get out and run against some second units: Rozier, JB, Semi, Theis and RWill.
I also think we will see a lot of Smart paired up with Kyrie, allowing Kyrie to play off the ball, for the same reasons Creightongubanicm opined about pairing Kyrie and Hayward. I think it will make sense when one of the two opposing guards is not much of an offensive threat to hide Kyrie.
I also think we will see a lot of Smart paired up with Kyrie, allowing Kyrie to play off the ball, for the same reasons Creightongubanicm opined about pairing Kyrie and Hayward. I think it will make sense when one of the two opposing guards is not much of an offensive threat to hide Kyrie.
How many second units have a better shot creator than Rozier or Morris? And we have them both. I don't agree at all that our second unit is lacking in scoring/shot creating.
Gordon Hayward is at a different level than either, good NBA teams usually stagger multiple elite scorers, and the Celtics have been doing this in the preseason.
I'm happy to eat crow in 3 weeks if I'm wrong, but predicting that the bench units will usually have at least one of Tatum, Kyrie, and Hayward seems obvious to the point of being a boring prediction.
It could easily be Kyrie or Tatum doing the 2nd team stagger, but that would just leave more 1st team primary option minutes for Hayward.
Brad isn't going to insert all 5 together so there will surely be times when the 5 second unit guys are blended in with Hayward, Tatum, and/or Jaylen. What I disagree with is that even in those minutes when it IS Hayward he is going to have to fight for shots with Rozier and Morris.
Because I think Horford and the Celtics get killed on the glass. And I don't think Baynes loses the matchup against the opponents best big for what he does best, defend the post, protect the rim and keep his man from grabbing offensive rebounds. That's what Baynes does best. Why waste his 15ish minutes against backup bigs? I think he should be used to physically wear down the opponents best big, not a lesser guy.
If you have a steak knife, use it to cut steak. Not to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
And as I've said before, I'd want the two guys in your top 9 that defenses aren't worried about on the perimeter, Baynes and Smart, not on the floor together that often. An easy way to accomplish that is starting one of them. Probably helps out getting a greater percentage of your total shots taken by the five best guys if they're not always on the floor together as well.
Got it, I see your point of view now. Yeah, we disagree on the shots Hayward will get when he plays with Morris and Rozier. My guess is that it will look like a standard NBA offense, where you have the clear center of attention (Hayward), the secondary creating guard (Rozier), and a spot-up/attack switches guy (Morris). Generally the lead guy in those lineups gets quite high usage, and this wouldn't be that different from when Hayward played with George Hill.
You may be right though: we'll know in a few weeks.
Just because you think it doesn't make it reality. The Celtics had the 6th best Def Reb differential and 8th best overall last year. When Horford was on the floor we still out rebounded our opponents.
This was an effective strategy in a different era. The problem with playing Baynes on the best offensive big in today's game is that you are now placing our rim protector and defensive rebounder on the perimeter defending a face-up scorer 15-17 feet from the basket.
I have no idea how this is relative to the way today's NBA game is played.
This is way overthinking lineups imo. We aren't talking about 3 bricklayers on the floor together or even two with Baynes being a perimeter and yes even a solid 3-point threat. Not to mention we have actual evidence of Baynes and Smart playing together on two of our most successful per-minute 5-man units last season.
http://www.82games.com/1718/1718BOS2.HTM
As a general note, if the assumption is Baynes will play roughly 20 minutes per game, whether he starts is not a relevant factor in whether he plays most or all of those minutes against the other teams starting 5 since those guys play 30+ mpg.