Can We Talk About Chris Collinsworth For A Moment

ifmanis5

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I'd say that Chris is easily the best current NFL color TV analyst around. Probably by a wide margin. In fact, trying to come up with the 2nd place guy is tough; maybe Mike Mayock or Jon Gruden? He's far ahead of the rest of the lot and I can't think of anyone who I'd rather hear from during a big NFL game.
 
Also, I've never had an idea that Chris was biased for or against any one team, player or organization. His blunt honesty is one of his strong points.
 
So, what in the hell was he doing on Super Bowl Sunday? Over and over again with Ballghazi stuff and rehashing facts that were not true. Even on that HUGE 3rd and 14 to Edelman he was still interrupting the play with his bashing. I could see if it was a blowout and you're just trying to kill time go ahead and air out some grievances, but this was a huge play in a still close game. What was he thinking? Shut up and do the game in front of you, it's pretty great.
 
And after the Butler pick he just would not stop second guessing Carroll on not running Lynch. Obviously a big topic of the moment but he just took one angle and would not let go or see other parts of the equation. He barely gave Butler his due on an all-time great football play. On the re-watch he was even worse. 
I still think he's very good but boy he did he have a bad game on the biggest stage. Just a shrill, vindictive jerk for 3 hours. 
 
What do you all think? Was he biased against the Pats or just had a bad game? I guess it could be both. I was a bit blindsided by how bad he was.
 

crystalline

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Bill Simmons put it best:

"I cant believe Deflategate caused me to turn on Collinsworth. He used to be my favorite color guy. We have some healing to do."

That's exactly how I feel.
 

crystalline

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Also, Collinsworth is clearly biased against the Patriots:

From M Hurley, quoted in another thread:
"
Theres the old saying that theres no cheering in the press box, but that rule did not apply for the Super Bowl. Every big play made by Seattle was met with loud whooping and hollering in the media workroom, and after that Kearse catch, seemingly everybody in that room was downright giddy. (I think its a combination of a lot of Seattle media members rooting for the Seahawks, as well as a number of media members who just hate the Patriots. Thats not a misconception; its a fact.)"
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/14/ray-lewis-tom-brady-is-only-known-because-of-the-tuck-rule/


To Collinsworth I say: "eat it, hater". He's dead to me.
 

JimD

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Maybe I'm just shallow, but I can't stand his nasally voice.
 

joe dokes

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I was with Simmons. I thought he was good, but he had a horrible SB.
 
And can we change the thread title to spell his name right --- Cris (no 'h')
 

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I also think Collinsworth is one of the better, if not the best, analysts on TV. I was disappointed that he was showing symptoms of Patriots Derangement Syndrome during crucial moments of the Super Bowl. 
 

dcmissle

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Also, Collinsworth is clearly biased against the Patriots:

From M Hurley, quoted in another thread:
"
Theres the old saying that theres no cheering in the press box, but that rule did not apply for the Super Bowl. Every big play made by Seattle was met with loud whooping and hollering in the media workroom, and after that Kearse catch, seemingly everybody in that room was downright giddy. (I think its a combination of a lot of Seattle media members rooting for the Seahawks, as well as a number of media members who just hate the Patriots. Thats not a misconception; its a fact.)"
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/14/ray-lewis-tom-brady-is-only-known-because-of-the-tuck-rule/


To Collinsworth I say: "eat it, hater". He's dead to me.
Will McDonough once wrote about how he and Ron Borges "broke etiquette" in the press box during the SB 2002 by applauding after the Pats beat the Rams. They were slightly embarrassed about it.

So this is the distance we have traveled in 13 years, and it's in the wrong direction.

Almost all of them suck. I think we need another ring or two to rub it in.
 

ifmanis5

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joe dokes said:
I was with Simmons. I thought he was good, but he had a horrible SB.
 
And can we change the thread title to spell his name right --- Cris (no 'h')
Sorry for the spelling. Would not bang.
 

bankshot1

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Collinsworth on Goodell following the release of the investigation of the Rice cover-up (during the Pats/Ravens game)

 
“But I never once in all my dealings with the commissioner doubted his integrity. And I think that came out in the report as well.”
 
 
 
CC On Brady on the SB broadcast

 
"I honestly after hearing that have more doubts now" about Brady's role in the controversy, Collinsworth said. "I think the league is opening up a can of worms, and I think they're about to find some worms."
 
 
Brady/deflategate made for a sexy story line and CC ran with it. Besides a vindictive Goodell can probably F up his life more than pissed on Pats/Brady can.
 
He doubled down on Goodell.
 

ifmanis5

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LOOK ME IN THE EYES, GOODELL!!
 
Also I still don't know what his can of worms meant exactly. Did he mean all the teams monkey with the balls or that the more they looked into the Pats the more illegal stuff they will find.
 

joe dokes

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ifmanis5 said:
 
 
Also I still don't know what his can of worms meant exactly. Did he mean all the teams monkey with the balls or that the more they looked into the Pats the more illegal stuff they will find.
 
I thought I was the only one who thought he mangled the metaphor.
 
And besides:
 
 

bankshot1

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I was thinking about it, and
 
1) Brady to our knowledge has yet to talk with investigators
2) the Costas question was "Have you ever talked with anyone (ballboy) about the balls?".
 
So if I'm Brady i talk with the investigator first and say nothing in the publc, that could then look like a lie to the inverstigators.
 
Secondly he probably has said to various Pats staff, "i like the ball at 12.5 psi"
 
If he were to answer the question honestly that would then open this up to more BS than was necessary.
 
ie. So if you told the ball-boy you like the ball light did they then under-inflated the balls on your order?
 
So he answered Costas, "when the truth comes out, we'll all know..
 
It sounds a little evasive /a modified 5th amendment plea, but fuck 'em.
 

K.C.R.E.A.M.

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If memory serves he was a real jerk over Cameraplacementgate and thought the then-harshest penalty in league history for a common offense was too lenient(!).
Even back in the 90s my father and brother were convinced he had some grudge with the franchise.

But then he's also swooned plenty for the Pats over the years and was the first person I saw outside NE to suggest BB should win CotY in 2010.

I would guess he's just another yahoo who falls for any controversy, whether it's warranted or not.
 

crystalline

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Papelbon said:
 
How does that quote prove anything about Collinsworth, who wasn't in the press box or the media workroom? He's talking about all the beat writers and columnists, not the announcers. 
Yeah, it doesn't prove anything about Collinsworth. It's just evidence that media members are not necessarily unbiased, despite what announcers often say.

The stronger evidence comes from Collinsworth bringing up Deflategate at arguably the greatest moment for any team in the NFL in 25 years.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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He routinely gushes over the Patriots, Coach Bill, and Brady.

He gets a raging boner any time Jamie Collins is within 5 yards of the football.

He always identifies (healthy) Gronk as unstoppable.

To suggest that he is a Pats hater is nuts, but he was behaving strangely during the Super Bowl. I honestly believe it was because the network wanted to weave a specific narrative into the game that felt unnatural to him, and so he came across as a little schizophrenic and spoke in non sequiturs at various points.
 
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when Al Michaels was on the DP Show that week, he said that they weren't going to focus on Deflate Gate...guess his partner missed the memo/...or he was so shocked by the Costas interview that he couldn't think straight all game
 

ifmanis5

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Dick Pole Upside said:
To suggest that he is a Pats hater is nuts, but he was behaving strangely during the Super Bowl. I honestly believe it was because the network wanted to weave a specific narrative into the game that felt unnatural to him, and so he came across as a little schizophrenic and spoke in non sequiturs at various points.
Right, he hasn't been a hater before which is why his SB performance was so odd.
If he's really 'just following orders' on the Ballghazi matter then my opinion of him just went into the toilet with the Pats ball attendant.
 

NortheasternPJ

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ifmanis5 said:
I'd say that Chris is easily the best current NFL color TV analyst around. Probably by a wide margin. In fact, trying to come up with the 2nd place guy is tough; maybe Mike Mayock or Jon Gruden? He's far ahead of the rest of the lot and I can't think of anyone who I'd rather hear from during a big NFL game.
 
Also, I've never had an idea that Chris was biased for or against any one team, player or organization. His blunt honesty is one of his strong points.
 
So, what in the hell was he doing on Super Bowl Sunday? Over and over again with Ballghazi stuff and rehashing facts that were not true. Even on that HUGE 3rd and 14 to Edelman he was still interrupting the play with his bashing. I could see if it was a blowout and you're just trying to kill time go ahead and air out some grievances, but this was a huge play in a still close game. What was he thinking? Shut up and do the game in front of you, it's pretty great.
 
And after the Butler pick he just would not stop second guessing Carroll on not running Lynch. Obviously a big topic of the moment but he just took one angle and would not let go or see other parts of the equation. He barely gave Butler his due on an all-time great football play. On the re-watch he was even worse. 
I still think he's very good but boy he did he have a bad game on the biggest stage. Just a shrill, vindictive jerk for 3 hours. 
 
What do you all think? Was he biased against the Pats or just had a bad game? I guess it could be both. I was a bit blindsided by how bad he was.
 
 
I usually really do like Collinsworth, but I agree with what most people said, his performance during the Super bowl was odd. Even after the game when they were celebrating he said stuff like "Their legacy is cemented, for now" "We'll see what comes out in the off-season" Seriously, what the fuck?
 
Also listen to his call of the Butler interception. I memorized it from the moment that Butler got it until about 20 seconds later. I'll exclude Al Michael's call.
 
 
 
                                
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
crickets
 
 
 
 
 
he literally said no words during the play. Nothing. For a color commentator on one of the biggest plays in Super Bowl history he said NOTHING.
 

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Nicely presented.  Collingsworth is a turd.
 

J.McG

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K.C.R.E.A.M. said:
If memory serves he was a real jerk over Cameraplacementgate and thought the then-harshest penalty in league history for a common offense was too lenient(!).
Yup. Collinsworth was one of the original and most vocal Spygate Truthers, loudly proclaiming the 6-figure fines and lost 1st rounder as too lenient. Here's an interview he did with Dale & Holley re: Spygate back in early October '07 for reference:

http://media.weei.com/a/12095074/cris-collinsworth-nbc-s-football-tonight.htm

While Collingsworth eventually shut up about the Patriots' crimes against humanity over the ensuing season, apparently he neither forgave nor forgot. Deflategate now seems to have reignited his long simmering Belichick hate, and he just couldn't help himself when it came to bringing up deflated balls at the most awkward, inopportune times on Sunday.

There were a lot of self-important Collinsworth diatribes about Deflategate to choose from, but his "Look me in the eye, Tom - now tell me you didn't tell anyone to deflate those balls!" (paraphrasing) took the cake. Who the fuck does Cris Collinsworth think he is? Tom Brady's dad? His elementary school principal? It must have taken Brady's every ounce self-control not to tell him to fuck off and walk out of the production meeting.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Drocca said:
He was a big meanie to my favorite team and I am seven so put him OFF the whitelist.
I know you are just trolling like 99.95% of your non-artsy posts but even you, I believe, would be bothered by seeing someone whom you think is a leader in their field doing hack work in order to pander to a specific audience.   Or perhaps I have overestimated you.
 

E5 Yaz

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I know you are just trolling like 99.95% of your non-artsy posts but even you, I believe, would be bothered by seeing someone whom you think is a leader in their field doing hack work in order to pander to a specific audience.   Or perhaps I have overestimated you.
 
Okay, he's 9
 

Drocca

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Honestly, I'm surprised he was well liked to begin with. I do like his timing usually - not jumping in constantly, but his voice is annoying as shit, he looks like a prickface and his analysis is the same junk as all of the rest of them.

His continued discussion of deflategate was so blatant, and unexpected by Michaels, that I assumed it was a network decision.
 

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Drocca said:
Honestly, I'm surprised he was well liked to begin with. I do like his timing usually - not jumping in constantly, but his voice is annoying as shit, he looks like a prickface and his analysis is the same junk as all of the rest of them.
His continued discussion of deflategate was so blatant, and unexpected by Michaels, that I assumed it was a network decision.
He throws in bits of analysis that nobody else doss. He even had one in the Super Bowl, when he noted how a swing pass to Vereen was set up by the tackle intentionally setting up wide against the DE, which encouraged the DE to cut inside and opened up the throwing lane.

There are plenty of otherwise smart football people who are just reflexive authority worshippers. So they love Brady and BB right up until the next level of the pyramid says not to. Collinsworth seems like one of those guys.
 

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Just so we're all clear on Deflategate:

media members who believe the Patriots: great journalists

media members who are skeptical of the Patriots: idiots

media members who don't believe the Patriots: hacks

Collinsworth is a great football analyst, the best in the business IMO. He picks up on and talks about the subtleties of the game that most commenters do not see.

It's OK to talk about deflated footballs. It's OK to discuss the story and be skeptical of the Patriots. It's OK for a color guy to believe the NFL wasn't hard enough on New England for illegally taping another team's play calling signals, even if other teams do it and haven't gotten caught for it.
 

Don Buddin's GS

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As strange as Collinsworth's behavior was, how about Michelle Trafoya?  Since when do sideline reporters ask the team owner and the MVP QB about stupid shit like ball pressure immediately after winning a Super Bowl. Talk about a buzz kill.  Go back to the softball questions, Michelle.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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DieHardSoxFan1 said:
Just so we're all clear on Deflategate:

media members who believe the Patriots: great journalists

media members who are skeptical of the Patriots: idiots

media members who don't believe the Patriots: hacks

Collinsworth is a great football analyst, the best in the business IMO. He picks up on and talks about the subtleties of the game that most commenters do not see.

It's OK to talk about deflated footballs. It's OK to discuss the story and be skeptical of the Patriots. It's OK for a color guy to believe the NFL wasn't hard enough on New England for illegally taping another team's play calling signals, even if other teams do it and haven't gotten caught for it.
 
I'm neither calling CC an idiot nor a hack... it's just the timing and placement of his comments was whacky/bizarre.  Had nothing to do with the current flow of play or anything in particular that was going on.
 
And Tafoya was embarrassing.  She had those questions lined up win or lose and totally choked on the moment.
 

Average Reds

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
He was in the booth with Al Fucking Michaels. Perhaps he just realized he should shut the fuck up and let the master do his thing? Sometimes less words are better and the best announcers allow the viewers to just weigh the gravity of what they just saw without their narration. Quite frankly I'm glad he didn't say a word and I wouldn't be shocked if Michaels hit CC's mute button for him and just said 'I got this one'.
 
I don't understand why people are killing Collinsworth for his silence after the interception by Butler.  The call by Michaels was near-perfect.
 
Of course, when Collinsworth did open his mouth it was to trash the play call and then, when the outcome was no longer in doubt, to make ominous proclamations about the NFL deflation investigation and to excuse the idiocy of the Seahawks for starting a brawl at the end of the game. 
 
Remaining silent immediately following the interception was Collinsworth's shining moment in this year's Super Bowl.
 

joe dokes

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DieHardSoxFan1 said:
Just so we're all clear on Deflategate:

media members who believe the Patriots: great journalists

media members who are skeptical of the Patriots: idiots

media members who don't believe the Patriots: hacks

Collinsworth is a great football analyst, the best in the business IMO. He picks up on and talks about the subtleties of the game that most commenters do not see.

It's OK to talk about deflated footballs. It's OK to discuss the story and be skeptical of the Patriots. It's OK for a color guy to believe the NFL wasn't hard enough on New England for illegally taping another team's play calling signals, even if other teams do it and haven't gotten caught for it.
 
No, I dont think we're clear at all. I agree with you about Collinsworth as an analyst. But his "discussion" of balls sunday was, at best, poorly timed. (in other words, it is possible simultaneously to have two conflicting thoughts about someone or something, in this case Collinsworth.)
 
His continued discussion of deflategate was so blatant, and unexpected by Michaels, that I assumed it was a network decision.        
 
Yes. There was at least one occasion when I swear I could hear the "what are you doing; let's talk about something else?" in Michaels's voice as he interrupted Collinsworth to do some play-by-play.  Like Collinsworth was the drunk uncle at the party and Michaels was trying to steer the conversation away from Uncle Cris's sex conquests.
 

NickEsasky

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Drocca said:
He was a big meanie to my favorite team and I am seven so put him OFF the whitelist.
Honest question. Do you hold grudges against people who trash UNC?
 

Yaz4Ever

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Drocca said:
Honestly, I'm surprised he was well liked to begin with. I do like his timing usually - not jumping in constantly, but his voice is annoying as shit, he looks like a prickface and his analysis is the same junk as all of the rest of them.

His continued discussion of deflategate was so blatant, and unexpected by Michaels, that I assumed it was a network decision.
My dad and I have disagreed on him for years. I've always considered Collinsworth to be a smarmy asshole with a smirk I'd love to see someone smack off his face. Dad loves the guy, though. Prior to the SB, I would've considered him pro-Patriots. Now, I'm not so sure. He's good at what he's supposed to do in the booth. Other than that, not a fan.
 

ifmanis5

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I'm not offended if he's pro-Pats or anti-Pats, I'm offended that he sucked at his job on Super Bowl Sunday. He was awful.
LOOK ME IN THE EYES. What was he trying to prove?
 

8slim

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I thought the timing and tone of his Deflategate comments during the SB were deplorable.
 
I wonder, though, if he was put up to it by his network.  Michaels  was forced to read a prepared summary of the Mueller report prior to the Ravens-Steelers playoff game that was clearly a PR-doctored statement.  So there is precedent.
 
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NortheasternPJ said:
 
 
 
Also listen to his call of the Butler interception. I memorized it from the moment that Butler got it until about 20 seconds later. I'll exclude Al Michael's call.
 
 
 
 
he literally said no words during the play. Nothing. For a color commentator on one of the biggest plays in Super Bowl history he said NOTHING.
I can't blame him on this one. That play was a lot to digest and process, on so many levels. Hard to come up with something that does it justice when you're still reeling in shock.

Besides, the moment diidn't need any additional "color".

I do agree that his Deflategate commentary was odd, but I'm not surprised given what he said about Goodell's integrity earlier in the season.
 

JimD

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I don't recall Collinsworth bringing any special insight to the final two plays.  IIRC, he went all the way with the conventional wisdom that Carroll should pound it in with Lynch four times and that Belichick should use his timeouts to preserve as much time as possible for the inevitable Brady desperation drive.  When the Patriots let the clock run he seemed dumbfounded and I don't recall him picking up on Seattle getting ready to pass there.  His silence after the interception was egregious - yeah, he's sitting next to the great Al Michaels, but after a moment how about hitting us with some wisdom about what just happened.
 

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 I was watching live at a big party so what the announcers were saying didn't register as much.  I have since watched and listened to the full broadcast.  What struck me, knowing how the game ended, was the incessant gushing of the greatness of Russell Wilson relative to what Tom Brady was doing.  It seemed to my clearly biased ears that every good outcome for Seattle during the game was some masterstroke, and when the Pats made plays, it was more "ho hum."
 
I can't recall, but there was one prescient moment where Butler was involved in a play that foreshadowed what would come.  I'll try to find the line they had.
 

Blacken

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Drocca said:
He was a big meanie to my favorite team and I am seven so put him OFF the whitelist.
Fuck all y'all. This ginger knows what's up.
 

Drocca

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Honest question. Do you hold grudges against people who trash UNC?
 
This is a good, fair question. And I can honestly say, no. Growing up I can remember Billy Packer was the big "Carolina hater" of the local guys. Carolina fans hated him and it was expected that you hate him. I never cared.
 
This gives me a good jumping off point to elaborate on a major difference between trashing UNC and trashing the Patriots (ignoring the college v. pros, because that distinction does not matter for these purposes) and also give my take on why Patriots fans are more sensitive than other fan bases.
 
I grew up in Winston-Salem, absolute ACC country. College basketball was the first sport I loved and while I prefer baseball more, my emotional ups and downs as a sports fan are much more strongly tied to 19 and 20 year old kids. People were fans of three schools where I am from - Carolina, Duke and Wake Forest. North Carolina State has a great fan base and I don't mean to ignore them but where I'm from, two hours from Raleigh, NC State did not have a major presence. Living in Raleigh now, obviously, I am surrounded by it.
 
Anyway, so you liked the hometown team (Wake), or one of the major programs in college basketball. This is where I get to the distinction. I have gone to school, work, church, every bar, every party, every social event with a mix of folks that love and hate North Carolina. There is no bubble. There is nothing being said about UNC (or Duke, or NC State) by any commentator, network or news program that is not said right in front of me, daily.
 
So distinction number one is the uniqueness of geography - UNC fans, Duke fans and NC State fans play and work together daily.
 
The second distinction is success. I root for a frontrunner. UNC has been, my entire life, one of the five best college basketball programs. Not top five every year, but one of the five best overall.
 
It's different rooting for a team expected to win. I'm not sure I can explain it well, but I think you probably understand. It's expected. Losing in the second round of the tournament in 1994 to Boston College felt worse than winning it all in 1993 felt good.
 
The Patriots are not a traditional powerhouse. This past decade + has felt like some alternative universe/happy accident. Fans cannot believe their luck and fortune.
 
And, unfortunately, fans of other teams, along with many journalists, announcers and talking heads cannot believe it either. And that disbelief has manifested itself, in some cases, by those same folks pissing on the Patriots every chance they get. Tom Brady is the best QB ever. He is the best. Peyton Manning has to play his system to be successful. Tom Brady has been successful in a wide variety of offenses. He is the best that has played the position so far. He is never acknowledged as such. Sure, he may be in the conversation or "one of...," but you never hear someone say, "We are watching the best quarterback to ever play this game absolutely slice up what was supposed to be the greatest secondary ever." That sucks for Patriots fans.
 
It seems like a fluke. It's not. For over a decade now the Patriots have had the best QB of all time and the best Coach currently in the game (I don't know if he's the best all time, or care. He's been the best coach in the league since Drew Beldsoe got hurt). The storyline doesn't reflect that, and neither does the narrative. But history will.
 
Unless. . .
 
They get an asterisk. There strong voices that want to use Spygate and deflategate to put that asterisk there. They want, when your unborn kids hear/watch footage of this dynasty, to be hearing/watching Barry Bonds instead of Willie Mays. And this is why I believe Patriots fans are more sensitive than other fans. Because people are trying to take the success of the Patriots and define it. They are trying to control the narrative and not in a favorable way.
 
  • Patriots fans, by and large, are not regularly exposed, in meatspace, to their rival fans the way Carolina fans are, simply as a geographical quirk
  • No one questions the success of Carolina basketball the way they question the success of Patriots football. No one. And this is even with 1982 being the last year that Carolina won a college basketball national championship without fake classes for their players. What did the Patriots do? Recorded something (as BB said) that 80,000 people were watching and rubbed the balls too hard.
 
 

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Admitted Stick'um cheat Jerry Rice had 11 catches, 215 yards, and a TD against Collinsworth's Bengals in SB XXIII.  Will Jerry have to pass the Look Me In the Eye Test too?
 

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Drocca said:
 
 
It seems like a fluke. It's not. For over a decade now the Patriots have had the best QB of all time and the best Coach currently in the game (I don't know if he's the best all time, or care. He's been the best coach in the league since Drew Beldsoe got hurt). The storyline doesn't reflect that, and neither does the narrative. But history will.
 
Unless. . .
 
They get an asterisk. There strong voices that want to use Spygate and deflategate to put that asterisk there. They want, when your unborn kids hear/watch footage of this dynasty, to be hearing/watching Barry Bonds instead of Willie Mays. And this is why I believe Patriots fans are more sensitive than other fans. Because people are trying to take the success of the Patriots and define it. They are trying to control the narrative and not in a favorable way.
 
  • Patriots fans, by and large, are not regularly exposed, in meatspace, to their rival fans the way Carolina fans are, simply as a geographical quirk
  • No one questions the success of Carolina basketball the way they question the success of Patriots football. No one. And this is even with 1982 being the last year that Carolina won a college basketball national championship without fake classes for their players. What did the Patriots do? Recorded something (as BB said) that 80,000 people were watching and rubbed the balls too hard.
 
 
I think this is very astute.
 
I also wonder how much the relatively recent phenomenon of media and fans being hyper-aware of "legacy" and "place in the history of the game" plays into this.
 
20, 30 years ago, I simply don't recall fans and media trying to classify the "legacy" of a player or team until that player or team was either about to retire, or a few years after they had faded from relevance.    When people talked about Larry Bird in 1987, they talked about him being fucking amazing, and that he had led some C's teams to championships; would he do it again?   They compared him against his peers.    I don't recall people wondering in any serious manner about how many championships he'd need to win to be considered the best forward ever or anything.  People wondered if Lemieux was as good as Gretzky, but nobody (to my knowledge) sat around and calculated how many more years, and how many goals, Lemieux would need to put up before he could be conclusively crowned "THE BEST".   Cal Ripken was simply an amazing short stop until he broke Gehrig's record; there was no rush to consider what "tier" of the HOF he'd end up in.
 
And, so, I think people simply observing greatness and enjoying it for its own sake will never happen again.   That horse has left the barn.   It's the downside to the pseudo-intellectualization of sports that guys like Simmons and Klosterman made really popular about a decade ago.   We talk about legacies and compare eras as if everything is occurring all at once; everything is meta.   
 
So, yes, you have sports writers and ex players and fans of other teams trying to pre-ordain the Patriots legacy before the book on it is even closed.  It's like watching a movie and having someone interrupt every 5 minutes to tell you how derivative and predictable it is even before the end of the second act.