Bruins sign Mitchell Miller to an ELC - now "parting ways"

mauidano

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Sounds like the players are none too happy about this either...from ESPN.com today.

Bruins captain Patrice Bergeron, forward Nick Foligno and coach Jim Montgomery addressed the situation with Miller following morning skate in Toronto ahead of their game against the Toronto Maple Leafs.

"The culture we built here goes against that type of behavior," Bergeron told reporters. "We're a team built with character and character people. What he did is unacceptable, and we don't stand by that. In this locker room, we are all about inclusion, diversity, respect. Those are key words and core values that we have."
 

ramfan

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As terrible as this story reads, and as less than forthright as the Bruins seem to have been, I ask is there no possible leeway for a bullying racist and horribly misguided 14 YO to be given a 2nd chance to prove he's is a better person. I'm not sure I would want to be judged forever on my worst days as a teenager.
I gave a pass on people who said this yesterday because they didn't know the facts. This was multiple times over 6 years. He supposedly continued to taunt him after the court system got involved.He had years to apologize that wasn't court-mandated. Every day for years he woke up and chose not to until 10 days ago. The other kid went in person and apologized years ago and the family forgave him.

At this point i question the character and morality of anyone who still defends it. It wasn't a 1 time thing. It was 1,000's of days where the abuse occurred and hundreds of days where he could have apologized and chose not to.He has continued to show no remorse every day well beyond 14
 

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Agreed its terrible behavior which if he were older would likely be felonious. But he was a dumb 14 YO, with apparently little adult guidance. The question remains should he be judged forever on this? And I don't know. But it seems he will be. Unless he earns his way out.
No one is saying he deserves the death penalty or should be sent to Elba but Im okay with him not playing hockey in the NHL. And especially doubly okay with him not playing for the Bruins.

Sorry, actions have consequences even when you’re 14-years- old. I mean, did you do anything like that when you were that young? And if not, why?
 

McDrew

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He has already gotten a second chance at life. He was punished for what he did by the courts. That punishment has ended.

He should only earn a second chance at the NHL if he has shown the work that he understands what he did was wrong, has taken action to repair the harm done, and has taken action to ensure it won't in the future. He has shown none of that, and by that standard, he should not be given an opportunity with the Bruins.
 

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That happened to me last night.

Also, I keep seeing responses like "I certainly wouldn't want to be judged for the things I did as a kid." How many of you engaged in behavior roughly equal to a prolonged campaign of physical and verbal abuse directed at a developmentally disabled African-American kid? Because while lots of kids do dumb things (myself included), this is several magnitudes worse than typical "kids being kids" behavior.
This is true, of course. It’s just not responsive to the argument.

They’re not saying that they hoped they aren’t judged for the things they did as a kid because they’re not that bad. They’re saying that they hope they’re not judged for the things they did as a kid because kids suck at self-regulation. The degree of badness isn’t what they’re pointing out. The degree of rational agency and commensurate blameworthiness is.

Shitty analogy alert: your 12-14 year old kid sucks at self regulation and uses your credit card to make a shitload of online in-game purchases for some stupid game, costing you $200. Is that kid less blameworthy than the kid who does the same thing but costs his family $2,000? Or $20,000? That is, is it the degree of harm that matters for the adult vs. kid discussion, or is it the degree of control?

Now, you might say that it’s both. And that’s fine. But most of the people talking about one of those variables are not simultaneously minimizing the other.
 
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mauidano

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So Miller was a tough guy, bullying a kid who couldn't defend himself. Yeah, that'll play well in the AHL. Dude will skating with a target on his back for a long time to come. Fuck him.
 

bankshot1

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No one is saying he deserves the death penalty or should be sent to Elba but Im okay with him not playing hockey in the NHL. And especially doubly okay with him not playing for the Bruins.

Sorry, actions have consequences even when you’re 14-years- old. I mean, did you do anything like that when you were that young? And if not, why?
I did some fucked up things as a young teen-ager including beating up classmate I shouldn't have when I was about 13, and I felt terrible about it and apologized to the kid the next day. We never became friends, but I never knowingly bullied anyone again either. And actions do have consequences, Miller will always be under a degree of public scrutiny if he remains in the public spotlight, I'm just not sure those consequences should include precluding him from pursuing a career in something he loves because of actions he took as a 14YO.

I'm not sure. I would need to understand Miller's state of mind now and the degree of remorse and sincere regret he owns (if he does) for his actions.
 

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I did some fucked up things as a young teen-ager including beating up classmate I shouldn't have when I was about 13, and I felt terrible about it and apologized to the kid the next day. We never became friends, but I never knowingly bullied anyone again either. And actions do have consequences, Miller will always be under a degree of public scrutiny if he remains in the public spotlight, I'm just not sure those consequences should include precluding him from pursuing a career in something he loves because of actions he took as a 14YO.

I'm not sure. I would need to understand Miller's state of mind now and the degree of remorse and sincere regret he owns (if he does) for his actions.
Like I said, everyone has done things in the past which they wish they could take back. But beating up a kid is nowhere near as bad as what Miller did. It’s not even in the same universe.

AND you showed contrition, apologized and grew from the bad day you had. That’s what people do. Miller had the bad day you had, but for seven years, never really apologized and has not seemed to grow from his experience.

I’m not sure why you’re trying to equate what you did with the actions of a racist bully who routinely beats up mentally challenged kids, but you’re not making the point you think you are. Mostly because you’re not a piece of shit.

Just because you love something doesn’t entitle you to be able to do that thing. I love baseball but I’m not playing right field for the Red Sox. There are times when a person’s actions are so heinous that it supersedes the wants of that person. Miller is entitled to a life, just not the one he thinks he “deserves”.

Because really at the end of the day, he’s an average hockey player. The world is not going to stop spinning if he’s not the fourth or fifth defenseman on the Boston Bruins. He can do anything he likes, he just shouldn’t have the privilege to play professional hockey.
 

mauidano

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Reminds me of the story of Luke Heimlich. Former Oregon State baseball player. Convicted at age 15 of molesting a 6 year old relative. Once the story came out he went undrafted; no MLB team would touch him even though he was the NCAA College Player of The Year in 2018.
 

Two Youks

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This is true, of course. It’s just not responsive to the argument.

They’re not saying that they hoped they aren’t judged for the things they did as a kid because they’re not that bad. They’re saying that they hope they’re not judged for the things they did as a kid because kids suck at self-regulation. The degree of badness isn’t what they’re pointing out. The degree of rational agency and commensurate blameworthiness is.

Shitty analogy alert: your 12-14 year old kid sucks at self regulation and uses your credit card to make a shitload of online in-game purchases for some stupid game, costing you $200. Is that kid less blameworthy than the kid who does the same thing but costs his family $2,000? Or $20,000? That is, is it the degree of harm that matters for the adult vs. kid discussion, or is it the degree of control?

Now, you might say that it’s both. And that’s fine. But most of the people talking about one of those variables are not doing simultaneously minimizing the other.
For me, both variables are linked. Degree of harm is proportional to the degree of control. It might not be 1:1. but there's certainly a connection. Age and number of occurrences also matter.

So, if the kid in your analogy spent the money in a single binge, that's one thing. If they slowly built up the balance over time, that's a completely different situation. As it is if the kid did it when they were 8 instead of, say, from the ages of 12-14.
 

locknload

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So Miller was a tough guy, bullying a kid who couldn't defend himself. Yeah, that'll play well in the AHL. Dude will skating with a target on his back for a long time to come. Fuck him.
He's 5' 10. There is a good chance someone pummels him really early on.
 

jk333

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What's even the upside?
The upside is that he’s putting up stats equal to the Bruins #2 or #3 prospect. If things went well, he could be a pretty good 2nd pairing defensemen in a couple years.

Obviously whether his character or the PR hit are worth it is worth discussion but let’s not pretend that there’s no hypothetical upside.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Not sure they can. You can’t just cut guys in hockey.
If he was ineligible to be signed, doesn't that by definition make the contract invalid? I mean the Comish has to technically approve all trades and signings I thought. Behrman could pull a reverse Bowie Kuhn in 1976 and rule the contract null and void.
 

Obscure Name

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The upside is that he’s putting up stats equal to the Bruins #2 or #3 prospect. If things went well, he could be a pretty good 2nd pairing defensemen in a couple years.

Obviously whether his character or the PR hit are worth it is worth discussion but let’s not pretend that there’s no hypothetical upside.
I wasn't pretending anything. It was an honest question. I'd never heard of the guy until the Yotes ditched him. Hardly seems worth it for what's likely organizational depth.
 

cshea

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The contract has been signed and registered to the league. The only way out is a settlement. As far as I know Miller was never suspended or disciplined by the league so I don’t see how they could reject the contract.
 

mauidano

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The upside is that he’s putting up stats equal to the Bruins #2 or #3 prospect. If things went well, he could be a pretty good 2nd pairing defensemen in a couple years.

Obviously whether his character or the PR hit are worth it is worth discussion but let’s not pretend that there’s no hypothetical upside.
He's no Kyrie Irving...
 

ramfan

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I did some fucked up things as a young teen-ager including beating up classmate I shouldn't have when I was about 13, and I felt terrible about it and apologized to the kid the next day. We never became friends, but I never knowingly bullied anyone again either. And actions do have consequences, Miller will always be under a degree of public scrutiny if he remains in the public spotlight, I'm just not sure those consequences should include precluding him from pursuing a career in something he loves because of actions he took as a 14YO.

I'm not sure. I would need to understand Miller's state of mind now and the degree of remorse and sincere regret he owns (if he does) for his actions.
So you apologized on your own without a court mandate or a potential employer ordering you?Did you apologize in person or send a message through Instragram 6 years later? Did you lie and tell him it had nothing to do with getting a job while you were close to getting a job and they told you to do it?

Once again this isn't age 14 it's 10 days ago.
 

LogansDad

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This is true, of course. It’s just not responsive to the argument.

They’re not saying that they hoped they aren’t judged for the things they did as a kid because they’re not that bad. They’re saying that they hope they’re not judged for the things they did as a kid because kids suck at self-regulation. The degree of badness isn’t what they’re pointing out. The degree of rational agency and commensurate blameworthiness is.

Shitty analogy alert: your 12-14 year old kid sucks at self regulation and uses your credit card to make a shitload of online in-game purchases for some stupid game, costing you $200. Is that kid less blameworthy than the kid who does the same thing but costs his family $2,000? Or $20,000? That is, is it the degree of harm that matters for the adult vs. kid discussion, or is it the degree of control?

Now, you might say that it’s both. And that’s fine. But most of the people talking about one of those variables are not simultaneously minimizing the other.
Depends. In your shitty analogy (your words), was this a one time incident, or did the kids drag it out over 7 years? And did either kid show remorse for any reason other than to get the credit card added back to their game account?

Miller was quoted as saying, "What I did when I was 14 years old was wrong and unacceptable". This quote reinforces to me that the biggest thing (if not the only thing) he regrets is getting caught. What he did wasn't "kids being kids", it was years of torture. Playing for an NHL organization isn't "a second chance opportunity to get your life on track", it is a privilege, and it needs to be earned. A mealy mouthed apology consisting of 50% "I" and "me" isn't earning that.


I will say that Bergy and Foligno coming out and saying the things they have said has reinforced my love for this year's team and this current group of players. It takes character to be willing to publicly question your own organization over something like this, and it would have been easy for them to say "go talk to media relations about this", but they didn't.
 

jk333

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He's no Kyrie Irving...
It’s an interesting comparison with their skillset and ages, etc.
I think I’m against the signing but I don’t feel very strongly. He could be good and did all of this at a young age. (Which are both a major contrast to Kyrie)

His awful apologies are what sway me against it.
 

mauidano

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It’s an interesting comparison with their skillset and ages, etc.
I think I’m against the signing but I don’t feel very strongly. He could be good and did all of this at a young age.

His awful apologies (given years to cool down and millions of dollars to be made) are what sway me against it.
In the larger picture it's just not worth the trouble for the Bruins. In the smaller picture, we have no idea on the inner workings of remorse, apologies, money etc. There are LOTS of good young hockey players out there who are not carrying this horrific baggage. Cut your losses and move on Boston.
 

bankshot1

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So you apologized on your own without a court mandate or a potential employer ordering you?Did you apologize in person or send a message through Instragram 6 years later? Did you lie and tell him it had nothing to do with getting a job while you were close to getting a job and they told you to do it?

Once again this isn't age 14 it's 10 days ago.
Who knows if I could have texted an apology in 1964 I might have. The technology wasn't available to me. So I had to say I was sorry in person.

To be clear, I'm not defending Miller, he seemed to be an amoral out of control monster at 14. But before condemning him forever I would like to better understand his state of mind now and his degree of sincere remorse and reflection on what he did. I understand others feel they have enough knowledge to reach their conclusions.
 

kenneycb

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Reminds me of the story of Luke Heimlich. Former Oregon State baseball player. Convicted at age 15 of molesting a 6 year old relative. Once the story came out he went undrafted; no MLB team would touch him even though he was the NCAA College Player of The Year in 2018.
This isn’t in the same vein of child molestation.
 

locknload

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The upside is that he’s putting up stats equal to the Bruins #2 or #3 prospect. If things went well, he could be a pretty good 2nd pairing defensemen in a couple years.

Obviously whether his character or the PR hit are worth it is worth discussion but let’s not pretend that there’s no hypothetical upside.
Is this true though? He's putting those numbers up as a overaged player in USHL. Not exactly top competition
 

ramfan

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Who knows if I could have texted an apology in 1964 I might have. The technology wasn't available to me. So I had to say I was sorry in person.

To be clear, I'm not defending Miller, he seemed to be an amoral out of control monster at 14. But before condemning him forever I would like to better understand his state of mind now and his degree of sincere remorse and reflection on what he did. I understand others feel they have enough knowledge to reach their conclusions.
You're ignoring the fact you said you apologized the next day and not when a judge or potential employer ordered you several years later.

His co defendant didn't seem to have any difficulty apologizing emotionally both in court and in person voluntarily after. The judge putting it on record that Miller's apology didn't appear sincere while not doing the same to his friend is telling.

1964 hmm...the good old days for some people
 

Cotillion

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How much? Do we know? Hopefully they learn a valuable lesson.
I thought someone posted it in here. They signed him for I thought max AHL signing bonus, max AHL salary, and some other bonuses.

View: https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1588646892891619328?s=20&t=Fq7cG4UoLIes3R5oSj2IDg

Mitchell Miller's entry-level contract with the #bruins contains the maximum allowable signing bonus each year ($95k), plus performance bonuses ($105k/$80k/$80k). It also contains the maximum AHL salary allowable.
 

jk333

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Is this true though? He's putting those numbers up as a overaged player in USHL. Not exactly top competition
On the same team-
Cole O’Hara is 6 months younger than Miler and was just drafted in the 4th round. He’s a forward with 10 less points and worse +/- rating.

Ilya Nikonlaev was a 3rd round pick 3 years earlier and also has produced less than Miller.

Miller is not an amazing prospect but he is a real prospect. Its reasonable to think he’s somewhere in that 3rd round pick level if you can ignore what a terrible person he was/is. And with how many prospects regress, maybe a hair higher. It’s also true that he’s overage. All that said, he’s somewhat small and I haven’t seen him play.
 

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Depends. In your shitty analogy (your words), was this a one time incident, or did the kids drag it out over 7 years?
Why does that matter as to the self-regulation question, especially if the kid isn’t being taught by his respective guardian along the way?

And did either kid show remorse for any reason other than to get the credit card added back to their game account?
Again, what does that have to do with the self regulation issue?

Miller was quoted as saying, "What I did when I was 14 years old was wrong and unacceptable". This quote reinforces to me that the biggest thing (if not the only thing) he regrets is getting caught. What he did wasn't "kids being kids", it was years of torture. Playing for an NHL organization isn't "a second chance opportunity to get your life on track", it is a privilege, and it needs to be earned. A mealy mouthed apology consisting of 50% "I" and "me" isn't earning that.
Again, all of this is perfectly fine. It still just doesn’t engage their actual point.

And look, “Who gives a fuck about that; look at this instead,” is a perfectly acceptable point of view. There’s just not a whole ton of clash with their point, is all.

I think he sounds like quite a douchebag, and the story about the later confrontation at 16 goes a fair way toward confirming that. “Fuck off and good luck with life,” is my general inclination.

I will say that Bergy and Foligno coming out and saying the things they have said has reinforced my love for this year's team and this current group of players. It takes character to be willing to publicly question your own organization over something like this, and it would have been easy for them to say "go talk to media relations about this", but they didn't.
Agreed. Bergeron is fucking amazing, and uncle Nick is the man.
 

timelysarcasm

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Did your worst day ever include continually bullying a mentally challenged kid, repeatedly call him the N-word and made him eat a lollipop that was marinating in a urinal?

Weve all done terrible things as kids. Things we wish we could take back but this wasn’t just one day, it was over seven years. And he’s reportedly shown zero to little remorse.

This more than “kids are assholes” territory.
Thank you. This is more egregious than stealing or whatever "kids will be kids" nonsense people keep trying to equate it with.

And why does his second chance have to be playing professional hockey? Do something productive with your life. He has shown very little remorse that wasn't motivated.
 

TSC

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One thing this has brought into stark contrast for me - how amazing the team is, and how garbage the organizational management is.

Seemingly, everyone from Montgomery, to Bergeron, to the rest of the team has rightfully questioned this and questioned the reasoning behind it.

Meanwhile, the FO gives some weak ass answers and justifications and then sends Bergeron out to answer for them.

As @The Napkin is fond of saying. Greatest sport; worst league.
 

Ferm Sheller

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The KC Chiefs took a team vote and apparently they've agree to make him a team captain should he wish to join the NFL.
 

barclay

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The fact that multiple team players, many fans, this board and even the NHL brass are more than questioning (to put it politely) this signing means to me only two things: they stash him away for a few years (if they can) to see what happens to his status and hope things die down or, much more likely in my view, they let him go. Nice going, Bruins! Dolts.
 

amfox1

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While I still commend Bettman for what he said regarding #NHLBruins and Miller, an NHL agent just text this to me and makes a solid point:

“Question for Gary and Bill- “If you say the player is NOT ELIGIBLE to play in the NHL, why did NHL Central Registry register the contract.”
 

NickEsasky

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So I’m struggling with this one a lot. About 20 years ago my cousin Barbara adopted a toddler with Osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) who also happens to be African-American. She grew up in Dorchester and learned to love hockey from watching her older brothers play. She is an absolute diehard Bruins fan.

Chanel was dealt a really shitty hand in life and wasn’t expected to live well beyond her early teens. But despite it all she not only persevered, but thrived. She graduated Umass and decided she wanted to be a force for good in changing the culture of the sport she loved. She started a blog and built up a following and eventually got hired by the Seattle Kraken to help them with their diversity and inclusion efforts. She even got to announce one of their expansion picks on ESPN.

In her short time working for a team and holding other teams accountable for how they welcome and accommodate female fans, fans of color, and fans with disabilities she’s made tremendous strides. And as someone who’s been family to her for 20 years I am so proud of what’s she’s done.

So it absolutely killed me yesterday to watch her open her heart in a video on social media as she processed her favorite team signing a guy who tortured a developmentally disabled black boy for years and seemingly showed little remorse. Between this and other recent stories she’s really questioning her love and effort to change a sport who seemingly doesn’t love her back.

I’m all for second chances but I don’t have to like or accept that it’s my favorite team who has to be the one to give him one . I truly hope he’s a changed man.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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So I’m struggling with this one a lot. About 20 years ago my cousin Barbara adopted a toddler with Osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) who also happens to be African-American. She grew up in Dorchester and learned to love hockey from watching her older brothers play. She is an absolute diehard Bruins fan.

Chanel was dealt a really shitty hand in life and wasn’t expected to live well beyond her early teens. But despite it all she not only persevered, but thrived. She graduated Umass and decided she wanted to be a force for good in changing the culture of the sport she loved. She started a blog and built up a following and eventually got hired by the Seattle Kraken to help them with their diversity and inclusion efforts. She even got to announce one of their expansion picks on ESPN.

In her short time working for a team and holding other teams accountable for how they welcome and accommodate female fans, fans of color, and fans with disabilities she’s made tremendous strides. And as someone who’s been family to her for 20 years I am so proud of what’s she’s done.

So it absolutely killed me yesterday to watch her open her heart in a video on social media as she processed her favorite team signing a guy who tortured a developmentally disabled black boy for years and seemingly showed little remorse. Between this and other recent stories she’s really questioning her love and effort to change a sport who seemingly doesn’t love her back.

I’m all for second chances but I don’t have to like or accept that it’s my favorite team who has to be the one to give him one . I truly hope he’s a changed man.
No joke, I read your post, went to Twitter, and saw this retweet from Jillian Fisher:

View: https://twitter.com/chanelly37/status/1588580589346906112?s=46&t=BpuCwnIp0Vix3FSUd1fzRw
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I thought someone posted it in here. They signed him for I thought max AHL signing bonus, max AHL salary, and some other bonuses.

View: https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1588646892891619328?s=20&t=Fq7cG4UoLIes3R5oSj2IDg

Mitchell Miller's entry-level contract with the #bruins contains the maximum allowable signing bonus each year ($95k), plus performance bonuses ($105k/$80k/$80k). It also contains the maximum AHL salary allowable.
Thanks for tracking that down. Basically a rounding error on the balance sheet
 

Myt1

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While I still commend Bettman for what he said regarding #NHLBruins and Miller, an NHL agent just text this to me and makes a solid point:

“Question for Gary and Bill- “If you say the player is NOT ELIGIBLE to play in the NHL, why did NHL Central Registry register the contract.”
I mean, Bettman is pretty clearly just making shit up.
 

Marciano490

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So I’m struggling with this one a lot. About 20 years ago my cousin Barbara adopted a toddler with Osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) who also happens to be African-American. She grew up in Dorchester and learned to love hockey from watching her older brothers play. She is an absolute diehard Bruins fan.

Chanel was dealt a really shitty hand in life and wasn’t expected to live well beyond her early teens. But despite it all she not only persevered, but thrived. She graduated Umass and decided she wanted to be a force for good in changing the culture of the sport she loved. She started a blog and built up a following and eventually got hired by the Seattle Kraken to help them with their diversity and inclusion efforts. She even got to announce one of their expansion picks on ESPN.

In her short time working for a team and holding other teams accountable for how they welcome and accommodate female fans, fans of color, and fans with disabilities she’s made tremendous strides. And as someone who’s been family to her for 20 years I am so proud of what’s she’s done.

So it absolutely killed me yesterday to watch her open her heart in a video on social media as she processed her favorite team signing a guy who tortured a developmentally disabled black boy for years and seemingly showed little remorse. Between this and other recent stories she’s really questioning her love and effort to change a sport who seemingly doesn’t love her back.

I’m all for second chances but I don’t have to like or accept that it’s my favorite team who has to be the one to give him one . I truly hope he’s a changed man.
Thank you for sharing this and to the poster who followed up with your cousin’s video. This is what I was trying to get at yesterday - the benefit to giving this guy a second chance or for second chances in general needs to be balanced against the effect these second chances have on the people affected and the younger generation wondering whether they should do the right thing or the wrong thing + some minor penance.
 

BlackJack

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The more I read and think about this, the more I wonder what Chara would have to say about this if he was on the team, still the captain.

I remember the first time I read about his stance on hazing (Athletic article (not the first of its type, but one of the 1st google hits)).

I have a hard time believing that he would have been ok with this signing. At all.

And I am just disgusted that the Bruins signed him. I know he was 14 and I remember what being a 14 was like and what it was like to be a target. None of my bullies would have come close to the lollipop incident. And that he can’t seem to own up to it now that he’s 20 is possibly even worse than the original behavior. He doesn’t have the excuse of being 14 any more.

Get rid of this guy
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
22,811
Durham, NC
I am really unclear why second chances have to be qualified? He deserves a second chance… but not in xyz. Doesn’t that literally mean he is not being given a second chance? Either he is given a second chance or he isn’t, there should not be qualifiers.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Mar 5, 2007
21,557
The more I read and think about this, the more I wonder what Chara would have to say about this if he was on the team, still the captain.

He would say (in a Slovakian accent): "This guy's in Providence. If he gets to Boston, we'll have something to talk about then. I don't play for Providence."
 

McDrew

Set Adrift on Memory Bliss
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Apr 11, 2006
4,095
Portland, OR
I am really unclear why second chances have to be qualified? He deserves a second chance… but not in xyz. Doesn’t that literally mean he is not being given a second chance? Either he is given a second chance or he isn’t, there should not be qualifiers.
Your argument depends on the wrong assumption that the only 2 possible outcomes are "no forgiveness whatsoever" and "immediate forgiveness about everything."

Let me try and talk about my expectations by asking a question bout Miller. What actions has he taken since his punishment that show that he understands what he did was wrong and wants to ensure it never happens again? Without those actions, I am going to consider Miller unrepentant for his actions and a significant risk to take them again. Him taking those while a member of the Bruins would be significantly damaging to the team, and as a fan of that team, I don't want that.

Again, Sweeney/Miller's conference yesterday talked a lot about things he planned to do, but very little about what he has done, and that lack of evidence is what makes me still consider him a first class shitheel that I want nowhere near the hockey organization I root for.
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
22,811
Durham, NC
Your argument depends on the wrong assumption that the only 2 possible outcomes are "no forgiveness whatsoever" and "immediate forgiveness about everything."

Let me try and talk about my expectations by asking a question bout Miller. What actions has he taken since his punishment that show that he understands what he did was wrong and wants to ensure it never happens again? Without those actions, I am going to consider Miller unrepentant for his actions and a significant risk to take them again. Him taking those while a member of the Bruins would be significantly damaging to the team, and as a fan of that team, I don't want that.

Again, Sweeney/Miller's conference yesterday talked a lot about things he planned to do, but very little about what he has done, and that lack of evidence is what makes me still consider him a first class shitheel that I want nowhere near the hockey organization I root for.
I made no mention of Miller. Who seems a real shithead at 14. I dont know who he is now. That isnt my question.

Mine point is people saying ‘someone deserves a second chance but not in said field’ isnt really a second chance at all. It is an alternate option.
 

Obscure Name

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Oct 29, 2006
26,915
Western Mass
View: https://twitter.com/PeterTenkrat/status/1589059004701224960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1589059004701224960%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=


HNIC piece.
NHLPA has objected to Bettman's statement, since there's no actual suspension, but Bettman "won't make it easy" for Miller to play in the NHL.
AHL president will meet with Miller soon.
Bruins brought Miller to Boston a few times to get to know him.
The Bruins never contacting the victim's family is not going over well.
 

McDrew

Set Adrift on Memory Bliss
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,095
Portland, OR
Mine point is people saying ‘someone deserves a second chance but not in said field’ isnt really a second chance at all. It is an alternate option.
I still have no idea what you are trying to argue unless you are trying to argue that details don't matter.

People are not saying that Miller never deserves a second chance in the NHL. People are saying that he has not done enough to earn a second chance in the NHL. "Enough" will be defined by a nuanced examination of the context in which the individual took harmful action and the arena in which he is trying to earn forgiveness. Those details do matter despite your unwillingness to aknowledge them.