Broncos fire coaching staff: Nothing beats that new coach smell
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Fox is always a bridesmaid and never a bride. A few teams with coaching vacancies would love to even get an invitation to a wedding.
The Fox bashing seems a bit excessive. Their are only a handful of coaches in the league that are a clear cut above him. Belichick, Harbaugh, Payton... After those guys it gets dicey. Andy Reid? Mike Tomlin? Bruce Arians? I don't think any of those last three guys can out-coach John Fox. Granted he had Peyton Manning for most of the time in Denver, he still was able to steer the Broncos to a 46-18 record over the course of those 4 seasons.
With the news of the entire staff being let go, it seems like it would HAVE to be Shanahan or Peyton told John that he was done.
The Fox bashing seems a bit excessive. Their are only a handful of coaches in the league that are a clear cut above him. Belichick, Harbaugh, Payton... After those guys it gets dicey. Andy Reid? Mike Tomlin? Bruce Arians? I don't think any of those last three guys can out-coach John Fox. Granted he had Peyton Manning for most of the time in Denver, he still was able to steer the Broncos to a 46-18 record over the course of those 4 seasons.
With the news of the entire staff being let go, it seems like it would HAVE to be Shanahan or Peyton told John that he was done.
Has a coach ever been fired after making the playoffs in each of his 4 years?
Edit: Now I'm just seeing the entire staff is gone. I don't have a dog in this fight, but that's a pretty strange choice for a team that went 40-13 (counting the playoffs) in the last 3 seasons. Manning threw for 4,700 yards and 39 TDs this season. Obviously he was hurt, but if there's a chance he can recover and return? This seems odd.
Edit: Now I'm just seeing the entire staff is gone. I don't have a dog in this fight, but that's a pretty strange choice for a team that went 40-13 (counting the playoffs) in the last 3 seasons. Manning threw for 4,700 yards and 39 TDs this season. Obviously he was hurt, but if there's a chance he can recover and return? This seems odd.
Yeah, cant imagine Manning is staying with a coordinator and risking another Caldwell sub replacement level disaster, its gotta be a handpicked Manning vet or else he's probably gone. Pretty shocked by that as terrible as he looked yesterday.
This has been a prevailing belief around Denver for years. Apparently Shanahan and Elway had a serious falling out many years ago and don't even speak. I don't think the rat is coming back.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
The Broncos cannot let Manning have a say in this decision. He might not even be a viable QB anymore now, and at most he has another year. Allowing him to have significant input in this decision, which will require a multi year contract, would be extremely short sighted.
If Kubiak had not just insisted earlier today that he was staying with Baltimore, I'd assume he's headed to Denver to be the HC. Maybe the opening in Denver will make him change his tune.
In general, I don't think John Fox is anything special as a coach, but I think you can do a lot worse, especially if its a team where Peyton basically runs the offense. Fox is a decent defensive coach who knows the league, has a lot of experience in the managerial and media relations aspects of the job, and seems perfectly happy to hand over most of the Xs and Os stuff to his coordinators. That seems kind of uninspiring, but its a lot better than hiring a Chudzinski (or McDaniels, frankly) type who seems more exciting in terms of Xs and Os but has no clue how to actually run a team and be a major cog in a complex organization.
Im taking BB, Payton, Carroll, Arians, both Harbaughs, Chip Kelly, probably Andy Reid,probably CoughlinThree10toLeft said:
The other smart board I read has Fox as a bottom three coach, but they weigh game management really heavily, I think thats overstated. I think he's in the muddle beyond the handful of coaches that matter and like him much better on a rebuilding team trying to get to respectability than a contender trying to GFIN, Broncos would have been better off cutting ties when they got Manning rather than now, to be honest, given where the team is likely headed.
Raiders would be the team that I think Fox would be a really good hire for.
LaConfora is saying that the other coaches are not fired, but have been told they can look elsewhere.
I assume that's because there's no guarantee the new HC would want the old staff.
I assume that's because there's no guarantee the new HC would want the old staff.
@MikeKlis: John Elway told John Fox's coaching assistants that they remain under contract with the Broncos but they are free to look elsewhere.
His net worth is north of $110 million, and opportunities will abound for him going into retirement. What's he coming back for in a rebuild scenario to find out if the next injury is the one that keeps him in a chair the rest of his life?RedOctober3829 said:
P'tucket said:
Yeah, that's the thing. It's a ton of money. But how close is he to being incapacitated because of his neck? That's a legitimate risk and the money might not be able to make up for that. Even Favre, a guy who couldn't leave, finally walked away from the money b/c his body couldn't take it.
Fox isn't an elite coach, but he is competent and has a pretty strong resume. I would put him underneath the top coaches like BB, but he is better than at least 50% of the rest of the league, and Elway has to be really smart about replacing him. I will always give him credit for running with Tebowmania and changing the gameplan on the fly during the season, and then doing a complete 180 the very next season, and both strategies generated success. That takes some coaching chops, and not every coach in the league has that.
The ideal place for Fox would be a team with talent, but needs a veteran coach to help them reach their potential, like maybe Chicago.
The ideal place for Fox would be a team with talent, but needs a veteran coach to help them reach their potential, like maybe Chicago.
Can't imagine this happening on a Belichick coached squad:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/1/12/7532569/the-block-that-wasnt-heard-around-the-world-could-have-sprung-c-j
I bet DT is done in Denver as well.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/1/12/7532569/the-block-that-wasnt-heard-around-the-world-could-have-sprung-c-j
I bet DT is done in Denver as well.
Trlicek's Whip said:
Well played.
I read through a couple of comments from Broncos fans on Reddit/r/NFL to better understand the thought behind Fox getting shit canned.
There were really high expectations for Denver going into this season. Basically, that fan base (and probably Elway/front office) saw a team that went 1 and done vs. Baltimore in 2013, beat a depleted Patriots team in 2014, received a curb stomping against Seattle to end 2013-2014, and now went 1 and done again vs. Indy. I think they saw a team that beat up on the weakling teams, but crumbled against the very best teams. Minimal in game adjustments and overall soft teams. Denver added all these high priced free agents (DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, TJ Ward, etc), but ultimately that defense didn't really dominate this year.
When you add someone like Manning and don't win the biggest games, the output doesn't really align with expectations. I think this fan base expected at least 1 Super Bowl. That pretty much explains it for me. If you're Denver, you expect Super Bowls, as opposed to say, a Jacksonville Jags fan who would do terrible things to his sword to reach the playoffs.
Does his history as a shill in commercials lead you to believe he'd turn his back on any coin whatsoever?RedOctober3829 said:
Close, but the Bucs fired Dungy at 4 playoffs out of five years, with a .500 season thrown indynomite said:
Those commercials can't possibly result in life in a wheelchair. Plus, they don't require him to go through another training camp, likely without the assets who helped make those playoff appearances possible. Lastly, the commercials don't result in the embarrassment of going out a loser.Rough Carrigan said:
Well, maybe just the first two
Schottenheimer was fired by the Browns after four straight playoff seasons.Infield Infidel said:
If the account above is true, it confirms my impression of Elway as smart and decisive. If he and Fox independently concluded it was time for a change, they are likely right. And that's no criticism of Fox, who I agree is too harshly judged. Some very good coaches have been able to get it done in one place and not another, and some not at all if "done" means winning a SB.
I also can't think of a better guy than Elway to evaluate Manning's future. Elway brought Manning to Denver to be Elway (for those too young to remember, Elway closed out his career with SB wins after spending most of it carrying flawed teams on his shoulders to SBs they had no business in). If Elway concludes that this is our-in-the-sky now, I expect him to find another way forward. My guess is Peyton will be back, but I won't be shocked if he isn't.
I also can't think of a better guy than Elway to evaluate Manning's future. Elway brought Manning to Denver to be Elway (for those too young to remember, Elway closed out his career with SB wins after spending most of it carrying flawed teams on his shoulders to SBs they had no business in). If Elway concludes that this is our-in-the-sky now, I expect him to find another way forward. My guess is Peyton will be back, but I won't be shocked if he isn't.
I expect the Broncos to be terrible for several years if Manning is done, but think Elway is probably the right guy to have if you need someone to sit down with Manning and say "hey, I think this is it". Id pump the brakes a little bit on the Elway as good GM train, lets see what happens when a top five all time player doesn't fall into his lap and he has to plan a salary cap beyond the Peyton Manning window. Playoff variance is a bitch, but they were certainly hoping for more than a SB blowout and two one and dones with their recent roster construction and their big offseason acquisitions just did about nothing or worse as their season ended.
Yep. They tried sensibly to fix SB blowout, only to end up with a bigger fail, attributable mainly to the QB. But their defense wasn't exactly lights out yesterday either. You expect them to score more than 24, but yesterday was a game that really needed to be won with a running game and defense. Though they were not likely to survive Foxborough anyway.
mauidano said:
I think this is a little bit harsh of an assessment of Manning. He has been one of the best (if not THE best) QB in the NFL the past 3 seasons up until about 2 months ago when clearly he was not physically right.
I think it's fair to question if he will become "physically right" again. My guess is he probably can, but the bigger question is if he can stay that way for a whole season these days. But it's not like he's been a slightly above average player masquerading as an elite player the past few years. He's been legitimately elite for most of his Denver tenure.
Manning looks like shit, but if the thigh was really the issue, it might be worth keeping the band together for one more season. He was fantastic for two thirds of the season.
Assuming he can be as healthy as he was at the beginning of this season, the plan would have to include modifying the offense to be run heavy to keep him fresh. And they need a competent backup (maybe Osweiler is the guy, don't know) so they can rest him for a couple games if need be. That's exactly what Elway did his final season. All of this would require a coach who can tell Manning "no" and have him listen. Since Mora left Indy, Manning has been the boss wherever he's gone. I distinctly remember him totally disregarding Dungy and keeping the offense on the field on a 4th down. He could get away with that in 2005, but he's not that guy anymore.
Assuming he can be as healthy as he was at the beginning of this season, the plan would have to include modifying the offense to be run heavy to keep him fresh. And they need a competent backup (maybe Osweiler is the guy, don't know) so they can rest him for a couple games if need be. That's exactly what Elway did his final season. All of this would require a coach who can tell Manning "no" and have him listen. Since Mora left Indy, Manning has been the boss wherever he's gone. I distinctly remember him totally disregarding Dungy and keeping the offense on the field on a 4th down. He could get away with that in 2005, but he's not that guy anymore.
Yes, this is where I'm at.GBrushTWood said:
John Fox is a great person and a solid NFL Head Coach. He excels at the tasks of managing the logistics of a large endeavor. But he is not a tactician nor is he a motivator. He has zero killer instinct shrugs off defeat without spending time focused on fixing the things that made you lose. He and his staff are terrible at in-game adjustments and when you play the toughest teams in the playoffs, you lose if you can't adjust.
He was a great hire to get the team through the McDamnit aftermath and did a great job making chicken salad out of Tebow's chicken shit. He did a good job piloting the team to lots of wins against weaker teams and won a few tough ones against top opponents, but he could not do that consistently enough to accomplish the only goal: a SB win. His teams have been loaded with talent but soft as silk.
John Elway is still new to GMing, but so far it is clear that he still has the burning drive to win. Bronco losses piss him off still. That is undeniably the biggest difference between Elway and Fox. Two days after last year's SB humiliation, Fox and Elway sat at their season-ending press conference and Fox was asked to assess the season. Just hours after an epic fail in every fashion, Fox said "We went 13-3 and made it to the SB. I'd say that the season was not too shabby." Elway visibly clenched his jaw at "not too shabby". The difference between the two men is spelled out right there.
Fox is OK with almost winning. Elway is not.
Sunday's mailed in game plan and failure to adjust was the final straw for me and apparently for Elway. Fox was not a bad coach, but he wasn't good enough for a team built to win it all in a rapidly closing (and probably already closed, to be honest) window. I wish him well, but now I want a coach with drive, killer instinct and an ability to adapt mid game when needed.
Not Too Shabby Fox is probably a good man to right the ship in Chicago, but I doubt he'll lead them to a Lombardi.
I think that boss is John Elway.MarcSullivaFan said:
Elway revealed in November that he sat Peyton down after the loss to the Rams (where Manning called like 90% passing plays) and gave him a talk about the need to let the running game balance things out. If Manning returns, I think Elway is going to spend more time focused on being Manning's better instincts.
This guy runs shit:
