Brad Stevens: President of Basketball Ops

Auger34

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Interesting that Brad would put that out there to a reporter immediately after taking the job. Leaking such a story is something that could indeed get him fired. So could be nothing but speculation; always be skeptical of self-reported claims of being "well connected".
I didn’t listen to the report but I am guessing it was more “I’ve known Brad for a while and with his personality I think he’d want to get back into coaching after a year”...

Which I am not buying. He’s spending a minimum of 2 years in that position and I’d take the over
 

Marbleheader

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It was his opinion, it was Zo and Beetle that said he was well-connected with Stevens. In the end, it may not mean much, but I was surprised to hear it.
 

RedOctober3829

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It was his opinion, it was Zo and Beetle that said he was well-connected with Stevens. In the end, it may not mean much, but I was surprised to hear it.
Yes he's definitely close to Brad Stevens. Goodman covered college hoops extensively until a couple years ago and is one of the most well-connected people in basketball circles. What he says i/r/t Brad I take with more credence than others say. Doesn't make it a true statement, but Goodman is definitely in Brad's inner circle.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Yes he's definitely close to Brad Stevens. Goodman covered college hoops extensively until a couple years ago and is one of the most well-connected people in basketball circles. What he says i/r/t Brad I take with more credence than others say. Doesn't make it a true statement, but Goodman is definitely in Brad's inner circle.
Does Brad even have an inner circle of reporters that he’s cool with dispensing info about Brad’s thoughts, even if unattributed? He doesn’t strike me as a guy who gives anything to reporters.

After all, why would he give this reporter any sense of whether he would stay in the job long term while the guy had no idea about Brad moving to the job in the first place? I think he’s reading tea leaves like everyone else.
 

RedOctober3829

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Does Brad even have an inner circle of reporters that he’s cool with dispensing info about Brad’s thoughts, even if unattributed? He doesn’t strike me as a guy who gives anything to reporters.

After all, why would he give this reporter any sense of whether he would stay in the job long term while the guy had no idea about Brad moving to the job in the first place? I think he’s reading tea leaves like everyone else.
It goes back to his college days. Stevens has known Goodman since he was an assistant at Butler. I don't think Brad told anybody outside of his own family about this move, but Jeff knows Brad more than anyone else in the media so like I said I take what he says with a bit more credence because of the long-standing relationship they have.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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BUT his comments from 2019, in an interview with NPR's Shira Springer which I just heard a few days ago, were dismissive and offensive to NBA players. My take is that once those combined comments saw light, ownership had to act and let Ainge resign for health reasons.
You mean this interview? https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/09/07/cityspace-interview-danny-ainge-celtics-kemba-walker-kyrie-basketball

Maybe you're talking about a different interview because that one seems pretty vanilla to me. At any rate, what comments are so egregious that DA could have been forced to leave because of them?
 

DJnVa

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Does Brad even have an inner circle of reporters that he’s cool with dispensing info about Brad’s thoughts, even if unattributed? He doesn’t strike me as a guy who gives anything to reporters.

After all, why would he give this reporter any sense of whether he would stay in the job long term while the guy had no idea about Brad moving to the job in the first place? I think he’s reading tea leaves like everyone else.

Goodman discusses it here, with Bob Ryan at the beginning of this video:

His take is that this was both a way to get value for what he's due to get paid this year and some "Hey Brad, try this out, see if you like it, and if not, then we can make decision."

(1) Jeff Goodman on Twitter: "LIVE: Ainge and Coach K Retire, Is Brad Stevens Long Term Celtics GM? w/ @GlobeBobRyan | Visit https://t.co/657WbJ9W2V and tell them Cedric Maxwell sent you for a free consult https://t.co/ZwNfSt0eLg" / Twitter
 

bankshot1

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You mean this interview? https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/09/07/cityspace-interview-danny-ainge-celtics-kemba-walker-kyrie-basketball

Maybe you're talking about a different interview because that one seems pretty vanilla to me. At any rate, what comments are so egregious that DA could have been forced to leave because of them?
The interview I heard (just part of it on 98.5 Sports Hub) was from 2019 interview from WBUR and conducted by Shira Springer, where Ainge said, and i paraphrase,

"I don't take players political opinions seriously, they're just players".

To me it was dismissive and when combined with his comments last week that in his 26 years in Boston he had never heard racist comments or players discus the issue with him, to me became a bad PR issue and had potentially explosive player blow back problems. I think ownership had to deal with it and they found a way to let him resign and they opted for health purposes.

I could certainly be wrong, but it makes some sense to me.
 

sezwho

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You mean this interview? https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/09/07/cityspace-interview-danny-ainge-celtics-kemba-walker-kyrie-basketball

Maybe you're talking about a different interview because that one seems pretty vanilla to me. At any rate, what comments are so egregious that DA could have been forced to leave because of them?

The tough part is where he is asked about players political activism and responds no player has ever influenced him in any way politically and he wouldn’t listen to them or any ‘famous person’.

I’m less confident he was forced out, but that didn’t help
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The interview I heard (just part of it on 98.5 Sports Hub) was from 2019 interview from WBUR and conducted by Shira Springer, where Ainge said, and i paraphrase,

"I don't take players political opinions seriously, they're just players".

To me it was dismissive and when combined with his comments last week that in his 26 years in Boston he had never heard racist comments or players discus the issue with him, to me became a bad PR issue and had potentially explosive player blow back problems. I think ownership had to deal with it and they found a way to let him resign and they opted for health purposes.

I could certainly be wrong, but it makes some sense to me.
That helps. So maybe this - https://www.audacy.com/weei/blogs/nick-friar/danny-ainge-discusses-nba-players-coaches-weighing-in-on-po - which appears to be part of the same conversation? If so, here is a summary of the pertinent remarks; while maybe they offended some, they seem pretty general to be controversial.

“I do like the fact that a lot of the players and celebrities provide great service for people and do give back to their communities,” Ainge said. “Social media allows them to get the message out and things that they’re doing proactively to make the world a better place.”
But when it comes to politics, he’s not interested in hearing what the rich and famous have to say.
“I’m much more curious about what you have to say about them than any NBA player or any famous people in Hollywood,” Ainge said to WBUR’s Shira Springer. “They’re probably the last people on Earth that I would ask their opinion on political views. At the same time, I think Gregg Popovich has earned my trust as a fan and a person that knows him and has been around him, as has Steve Kerr, who is also vocal. (Kerr) is another guy that I really like as a person. I don’t like all their opinions, but I do respect their opinions.”
Having said that about other legends in the game and current NBA players, Ainge also added he’d like it if politics weren’t “so attack-oriented.”
“I wish that we could disagree a little more gracefully,” he continued. “Like I said, Steve Kerr and Popovich, yeah, I like listening to them, but there’s not very many players that I really care what they have to say about their influencing me in any way, in any aspect of life.”
 

djbayko

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They were under the tax threshold. Then they went over by adding NG and had to dump DT. I'm all for it, but it seemed hasty.

I'm probably looking for moles on a supermodel here, but it made me question at the time whether they had their tax shit straight.
They worked 2 nearly parallel deals which achieved some goals and kept them under the tax threshold.

Or you can assume that after some Fournier high fives, they said "OH SHIT!!!" and hastily dumped Theis.
 

radsoxfan

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Goodman discusses it here, with Bob Ryan at the beginning of this video:

His take is that this was both a way to get value for what he's due to get paid this year and some "Hey Brad, try this out, see if you like it, and if not, then we can make decision."

(1) Jeff Goodman on Twitter: "LIVE: Ainge and Coach K Retire, Is Brad Stevens Long Term Celtics GM? w/ @GlobeBobRyan | Visit https://t.co/657WbJ9W2V and tell them Cedric Maxwell sent you for a free consult https://t.co/ZwNfSt0eLg" / Twitter
I was told elsewhere in this thread that even the suggestion of this type of scenario was the completely crazy. Perhaps not.

I obviously have no inside info but it seems clear from the press conference and people that know Brad that he loves coaching and wants to be a coach. I find it very unlikely he is done coaching for good.

Obviously the inner workings of this particular decision are totally speculation, but it doesn't seem to me like Brad was demanding this change, and I wonder if it's even his preference at all. He could have said he was totally burned out on coaching and wanted to go to the FO, but I didn't hear him say that.

I think it's probably true he is intrigued by the challenge, plans to give his all, and sees some family benefits of not being the coach. Who knows, maybe a year or two from now he will really enjoy and even prefer it. I have a feeling ownership thinks he could be really good at it and they are hoping for this scenario.
 

bankshot1

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That helps. So maybe this - https://www.audacy.com/weei/blogs/nick-friar/danny-ainge-discusses-nba-players-coaches-weighing-in-on-po - which appears to be part of the same conversation? If so, here is a summary of the pertinent remarks; while maybe they offended some, they seem pretty general to be controversial.

“I do like the fact that a lot of the players and celebrities provide great service for people and do give back to their communities,” Ainge said. “Social media allows them to get the message out and things that they’re doing proactively to make the world a better place.”
But when it comes to politics, he’s not interested in hearing what the rich and famous have to say.
“I’m much more curious about what you have to say about them than any NBA player or any famous people in Hollywood,” Ainge said to WBUR’s Shira Springer. “They’re probably the last people on Earth that I would ask their opinion on political views. At the same time, I think Gregg Popovich has earned my trust as a fan and a person that knows him and has been around him, as has Steve Kerr, who is also vocal. (Kerr) is another guy that I really like as a person. I don’t like all their opinions, but I do respect their opinions.”
Having said that about other legends in the game and current NBA players, Ainge also added he’d like it if politics weren’t “so attack-oriented.”
“I wish that we could disagree a little more gracefully,” he continued. “Like I said, Steve Kerr and Popovich, yeah, I like listening to them, but there’s not very many players that I really care what they have to say about their influencing me in any way, in any aspect of life.”
Yup-that's the Ainge interview I heard.
And in 2019 it was dismissive of players, and was reminiscent of Fox's Laura Ingraham's condescending words to LeBron, "shut up and dribble".

Speaking as both an old white guy and an Ainge fan as GM (in general) Ainge's, I''ll listen to old white guys before I listen to black guys isn't the best take.

Today post George Floyd, its a real potential PR problem for an organization dependent upon earning the goodwill of African American players who have choices where they play and where they won't.

And ownership recognized it.
 

8slim

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Yup-that's the Ainge interview I heard.
And in 2019 it was dismissive of players, and was reminiscent of Fox's Laura Ingraham's condescending words to LeBron, "shut up and dribble".

Speaking as both an old white guy and an Ainge fan as GM (in general) Ainge's, I''ll listen to old white guys before I listen to black guys isn't the best take.

Today post George Floyd, its a real potential PR problem for an organization dependent upon earning the goodwill of African American players who have choices where they play and where they won't.

And ownership recognized it.
Wasn't Ainge supportive of Jalen's trip to Atlanta to protest last summer? Has this interview from 2 years ago received any substantial attention? Seems like the people in this forum who live-and-breathe Cs stuff weren't aware of it.

Count me as one who thinks adamantly that this was Ainge calling it quits on his own terms, with no push from ownership, either due to on the court, or off the court, issues.
 

RetractableRoof

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That helps. So maybe this - https://www.audacy.com/weei/blogs/nick-friar/danny-ainge-discusses-nba-players-coaches-weighing-in-on-po - which appears to be part of the same conversation? If so, here is a summary of the pertinent remarks; while maybe they offended some, they seem pretty general to be controversial.

“I do like the fact that a lot of the players and celebrities provide great service for people and do give back to their communities,” Ainge said. “Social media allows them to get the message out and things that they’re doing proactively to make the world a better place.”
But when it comes to politics, he’s not interested in hearing what the rich and famous have to say.
“I’m much more curious about what you have to say about them than any NBA player or any famous people in Hollywood,” Ainge said to WBUR’s Shira Springer. “They’re probably the last people on Earth that I would ask their opinion on political views. At the same time, I think Gregg Popovich has earned my trust as a fan and a person that knows him and has been around him, as has Steve Kerr, who is also vocal. (Kerr) is another guy that I really like as a person. I don’t like all their opinions, but I do respect their opinions.”
Having said that about other legends in the game and current NBA players, Ainge also added he’d like it if politics weren’t “so attack-oriented.”
“I wish that we could disagree a little more gracefully,” he continued. “Like I said, Steve Kerr and Popovich, yeah, I like listening to them, but there’s not very many players that I really care what they have to say about their influencing me in any way, in any aspect of life.”
He complimented players for using their celebrity to make a social difference. No issue there.

He is saying as a person, he isn't interested in what ANY celebrities have to say politically. What issue could possibly be taken with that? That he didn't drop to his knees and say he was quivering with a thirst to know how Beyonce felt on climate control or the 3rd district race for school committee in Orange county??? The irony here about him being labeled as dismissive and tone deaf is that Malcolm X was also dismissive of celebrities (athletes/musicians, etc) as political thought leaders. Hell, Charles Barkley had an old ad campaign specifically stating that athletes shouldn't be role models - essentially "my opinion on things shouldn't matter to people, I just play basketball". Where do we want people getting their political opinions from? Snoop Dog? Jimmy Kimmel (is he even on TV any more?)? I'd like to think that there are better sources of political insight for people to listen to. I mean, in the end if young player X is a gym rat and is focused on getting better at basketball as his job then he is probably putting 60+ hours a week into that and then spending time with family/friends outside of that. I'd prefer to get my info from say Obama who has as much time immersed in politics as most NBA players have in their careers. I'm not sure where the problem with that statement is - or where Ainge should be attacked for saying that he didn't personally find VERY MANY players that he was influenced by.

Ainge and Stevens seem to have done their best to create a climate where the players knew there voices were heard, valued, and knew the Celtics organization was willing to add their weight and reach to amplify their voices. I've seen no evidence of Ainge not valuing the social voice of any of his players. I'm not condemning Ainge for being tone deaf until I hear one of his players say it was an issue. In the end, that is what mattered - how the team felt about him.

The take that the "old white guy is only interested in other old white guys" is in my opinion itself a racist interpretation on what Ainge said. His words could be more reasonably framed "old guy is only interested in other old guys", and that could be and should be taken to mean that those who have experience and wisdom that shapes their opinions - and even then he doesn't always agree with them. It wasn't Ainge that used the word "white", and injecting it is simply to meet a narrative. Tell me why Ainge should for example be politically influenced by a "one and done" kid who's greatest worry after 3 years in the league is the layout of their latest tattoo, or what version of the iPhone they are using, or whether their playlist is legit... or even from the wealthiest player in the NBA who seemingly has no problem letting child slave labor assemble the sneakers he is selling? [Edit: clearly the league has a diverse experience base, and for every player that is concerned about tattoos there is another who cares about wine, another who cares about politics, etc. As someone who hopes to see Jaylen as a US Senator one day, I'm not saying there are not incredibly valuable political opinions available within the NBA. However, Ainge hasn't done anything wrong to say that NOT MANY are influential to him or that he prefers other sources for his political influence.]

Note: @WBCD Quoting your post (interview summary), not responding to you directly.

@radsoxfan In the end, I think Stevens was "willing" to do this from a family perspective. I'd bet he does the DoBB Ops job until his youngest is done with high school (5 years?) to allow him to be have more time as dad than his role as coach would allow him to be. I think he recharges the batteries, and gets back into coaching when he feels like that doesn't have as great an impact on his family. Just my two cents.
 
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Jimbodandy

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The draft & stash guys happened because of a personnel decision (the refusal to unload James Young after his rookie year), and Zarren wasn't the personnel guy. Had they paid someone $3 million to eat Young's contract they could have made an actual pick at #16 or #23. Zizic was used in the Irving trade, so all it really cost them was the Kyurse.

And while people bitch and moan about having to pay picks to move on from personnel decisions, they've put Boston in a position to add talent and operate above the tax line as the JayCrew is ascendent. Re-setting that tax line was important to Boston moving forward as the three years' grace they just bought takes them through the end of Jaylen's deal.
I don't know why we keep treating this stuff as an either/or.

Of course I'm a million percent on board resetting the tax and understand why we did that.
 

Jimbodandy

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When you have max guys on their third contract it gets tough to stay under the tax line. Walker alone gets you to 28% of the LT line. Add in Jaylen and it's closer to 45%. I mean, sure, they could have sent out more guys for nothing last draft night in order to create an even larger cushion so that they could absorb Fournier without having to trade away Theis. But I suspect that if they'd given away Grant Williams in order to add Carsen Edwards, Javonte Green, and some other random salary to the dump list that you'd be citing that as a failure of cap management.

The decisions that have been hurting Boston lately are the personnel ones, primarily Danny holding on too long to the Davis/Irving dream (and that's not hindsight for me, I was off the Unibrower Train the minute he hired LeBron to be his agent and was an early advocate for just moving on and building around Hayward and JayCrew). Everything since his stubborn refusal to trade Irving has been reverberations from that non-move. (I.e. Replacing Kyrie with Kemba led to the Hayward exit as he didn't like being the fourth wheel.)
I agree with every part of this.

I thought that it was fair to question whether Zarren is the genius that he is purported to be. And it sounds like the board is saying yes.
 

Jimbodandy

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They worked 2 nearly parallel deals which achieved some goals and kept them under the tax threshold.

Or you can assume that after some Fournier high fives, they said "OH SHIT!!!" and hastily dumped Theis.
I'm not assuming. I'm asking.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see that TL was going to end up in traction again. And against another eastern conference team (and before JB went down also), having Grant playing big minutes at the 5 would have eaten our lunch.

After Jaylen had to sit, it was immaterial anyway. But that shit was unknown at the deadline. What would the conversations have been here were Embiid or even Lopez tapping in garbage buckets over poor Grant's head for 6 or 7 games.
 

bankshot1

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Wasn't Ainge supportive of Jalen's trip to Atlanta to protest last summer? Has this interview from 2 years ago received any substantial attention? Seems like the people in this forum who live-and-breathe Cs stuff weren't aware of it.

Count me as one who thinks adamantly that this was Ainge calling it quits on his own terms, with no push from ownership, either due to on the court, or off the court, issues.
By the time America and Ainge saw police choke out a guy for 9 minutes, Ainge being supportive of Jaylen Brown's desire to protest legally, seems somewhat irrelevant.
How would saying "no you can't go" to an adult, have played out?

And that the 2019 interview was dug up 2 years after the fact is also irrelevant as it speaks to Ainge's recent POV of his employees and their political awareness.

IMO its a terrible look that likely would have only gotten uglier.

Again IMO, given Boston's racist rep, that will not easily go away, and could develop into a bigger problem in attracting talent, Celt's ownership knew there was a PR issue they had to address and fix ASAP, and presumably through retiring Ainge and eventually hiring a black coach for players to better relate to would help.

And I respect you feel otherwise, but this narrative make sense to me.
 

8slim

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By the time America and Ainge saw police choke out a guy for 9 minutes, Ainge being supportive of Jaylen Brown's desire to protest legally, seems somewhat irrelevant.
How would saying "no you can't go" to an adult, have played out?

And that the 2019 interview was dug up 2 years after the fact is also irrelevant as it speaks to Ainge's recent POV of his employees and their political awareness.

IMO its a terrible look that likely would have only gotten uglier.

Again IMO, given Boston's racist rep, that will not easily go away, and could develop into a bigger problem in attracting talent, Celt's ownership knew there was a PR issue they had to address and fix ASAP, and presumably through retiring Ainge and eventually hiring a black coach for players to better relate to would help.

And I respect you feel otherwise, but this narrative make sense to me.
To the bolded... they did? I'm trying to ask a genuine question. What PR issue has been stirred up due to an interview Ainge did that, it seems to me, very few people know exists? And I know we're all down on supposed insiders at the moment, but this franchise altering decision, made to address said PR calamity, has yet to elicit any chatter whatsoever?

We disagree, and that's cool. I think, in this case, a cigar is just a cigar.
 

snowmanny

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There is a very high probability that they will hire a Black coach because that will be the best person for the job.

This notion that they should hire a Black coach because it will make Boston seem less racist or prove (again) that the Celtics aren’t a racist organization I dismiss out of hand because that didn’t work before when they were the first team to hire a Black coach, and when they were one of the first teams (maybe the first?) to have hired two. It wouldn’t change anyone’s notions about anything.
 

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I think its fair for both sides to be right (irt Stevens).

Brad has kids in School. A "Stay at home" job might be something he really covets over the next 4-5 years. He may also have a little "Billy Beane" at play in that his kids have grown up IN BOSTON. Sure Home for him and wife might be Bloomington but his kids would be giving up the only school and friends they ever knew.

After that when the kids fly the coop and Indiana or Duke is again looking for the Man he could easily pivot and go back to College for a bunch of road games, recruiting trips and Tournaments. Money will be there. And he can sell recruits on his "GM" time in the NBA.

I cant believe that in say 5 years he will have "forgotten" how to coach or that the game will have passed him by. Meanwhile he stays relevant, connected, well paid and challenged.

I would take a 5 year run from Stevens.
 

bankshot1

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To the bolded... they did? I'm trying to ask a genuine question. What PR issue has been stirred up due to an interview Ainge did that, it seems to me, very few people know exists? And I know we're all down on supposed insiders at the moment, but this franchise altering decision, made to address said PR calamity, has yet to elicit any chatter whatsoever?

We disagree, and that's cool. I think, in this case, a cigar is just a cigar.
When I heard the WBUR interview, a couple of days ago, I went from an Ainge supporter to, "this is a problem and he may have to go" Having the head basketball guy basically parrotting Laura Ingraham's "shut up and dribble" is not the best recruiting tool for an organization wholly dependent upon attracting African American ballplayers the best of whom can pick and choose where they play. And this was nipped in the bud now, as the post-season games are still being played to nudge it out of the news cycle ASAP.

So they acted quickly and fashioned a fix. Ainge out, (health) Brad who I think is a pretty good coach, and who may have lost the team during covid and Kyrie (and who is owed a gazillion $) up as head of hoop ops, and a new black coach in.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There is a very high probability that they will hire a Black coach because that will be the best person for the job.

This notion that they should hire a Black coach because it will make Boston seem less racist or prove (again) that the Celtics aren’t a racist organization I dismiss out of hand because that didn’t work before when they were the first team to hire a Black coach, and when they were one of the first teams (maybe the first?) to have hired two. It wouldn’t change anyone’s notions about anything.
This post and the bolded language in particular are spot on IMO.
 
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RIFan

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By the time America and Ainge saw police choke out a guy for 9 minutes, Ainge being supportive of Jaylen Brown's desire to protest legally, seems somewhat irrelevant.
How would saying "no you can't go" to an adult, have played out?

And that the 2019 interview was dug up 2 years after the fact is also irrelevant as it speaks to Ainge's recent POV of his employees and their political awareness.

IMO its a terrible look that likely would have only gotten uglier.

Again IMO, given Boston's racist rep, that will not easily go away, and could develop into a bigger problem in attracting talent, Celt's ownership knew there was a PR issue they had to address and fix ASAP, and presumably through retiring Ainge and eventually hiring a black coach for players to better relate to would help.

And I respect you feel otherwise, but this narrative make sense to me.
I think you're way out on a limb here. The ownership has known and dealt with Ainge for 18 years. They know exactly what type of person he is and probably wouldn't react to a few public comments that weren't nearly as inflammatory as you seem to believe. I also don't see them to be overly sensitive to public opinion, especially when there was no real uproar about what Ainge said. If Ainge was being dragged as a racist in the press maybe they would have felt there was something they had to do. Also, it's not at all analogous to compare what Ainge said to what Ingraham said no matter how many times you make the comparison. He never told them to "shut up and dribble" or their opinions weren't valid. He just wouldn't ask them their opinions on politics. That doesn't have to be a racial thing. Maybe he thinks anyone under 30 or who lives in a fame bubble has crap opinions on politics.

This really appears to be an Occam's Razor situation. Ainge is 62 with health concerns in a stressful job. He wanted to ease up and step aside.
 

bankshot1

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I think you're way out on a limb here. The ownership has known and dealt with Ainge for 18 years. They know exactly what type of person he is and probably wouldn't react to a few public comments that weren't nearly as inflammatory as you seem to believe. I also don't see them to be overly sensitive to public opinion, especially when there was no real uproar about what Ainge said. If Ainge was being dragged as a racist in the press maybe they would have felt there was something they had to do. Also, it's not at all analogous to compare what Ainge said to what Ingraham said no matter how many times you make the comparison. He never told them to "shut up and dribble" or their opinions weren't valid. He just wouldn't ask them their opinions on politics. That doesn't have to be a racial thing. Maybe he thinks anyone under 30 or who lives in a fame bubble has crap opinions on politics.

This really appears to be an Occam's Razor situation. Ainge is 62 with health concerns in a stressful job. He wanted to ease up and step aside.
We disagree. But its not worth speculating further on events or conversations none of us were party to.
 

lexrageorge

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Ainge wasn't "fired" for innocuous comments made on WBUR in 2019. I am willing to go out on a limb on that point. Somehow, the Celtics did manage to sign free agents after he made those comments.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, maybe not so fine if one of the 2 is TL.
True but we desperately needed shooting and while I’m no Fournier fan you can’t not do anything while assuming TL is going to be injured. I get not making the Fournier deal but not for that actual reason since TL had been playing.
 

Cellar-Door

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So I think the Celtics end up going with one of the former players (Cassell, Billups,etc.), but one thing I hadn't thought about until I saw someone talking about it today....
One of the more qualified contenders for an outside the organization picks is Becky Hammon and you actually should have a good idea what your stars think about her since she was an assistant on the Team USA staff when Brown and Tatum were on the team.
 

RetractableRoof

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I'm not assuming. I'm asking.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see that TL was going to end up in traction again. And against another eastern conference team (and before JB went down also), having Grant playing big minutes at the 5 would have eaten our lunch.

After Jaylen had to sit, it was immaterial anyway. But that shit was unknown at the deadline. What would the conversations have been here were Embiid or even Lopez tapping in garbage buckets over poor Grant's head for 6 or 7 games.
What if the actual read was: If we are dependent on TT or Theis at center, for any length of time, we are screwed and can't win. So as much as we like Theis, letting him go to get under the luxury tax cap and get a long look to see if this wing (NG) can be a fit going forward is worth the price kind of makes sense. [I think the answer is no - he can't defend enough to be a difference maker except on second units in the playoffs.] I mean on one hand you want us to accept that knowing TL was going down was a fait accompli, but if someone said the same about Kemba at the exact moment, we'd all have said "I can see that". So now it is a reasonable premise that the Cs have no TL and no Kemba (kinda true as it happened) and there is no way (even with a healthy Jaylen) that we are going anywhere. So, given that - getting under the tax seems a reasonable take.

No matter how you slice it, we needed perfect healthy from nearly everyone given this roster construction to have had a chance to catch lightning in a bottle. In the absence of that, getting under the cap to make overspending in future attempts to win possible, makes perfect sense as a plan - not as mismanagement.

Just my take on that aspect.
 
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Cellar-Door

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True but we desperately needed shooting and while I’m no Fournier fan you can’t not do anything while assuming TL is going to be injured. I get not making the Fournier deal but not for that actual reason since TL had been playing.
Even with Fournier hurt, I make that move 100/100. He shot lights out, his Bird rights are worth more than Theis' Bird Rights... it was a clear smart move.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ainge wasn't "fired" for innocuous comments made on WBUR in 2019. I am willing to go out on a limb on that point. Somehow, the Celtics did manage to sign free agents after he made those comments.
Yeah, there is no certainty only speculation but even as someone on the “this doesn’t smell right” side I can’t even imagine he was fired in the summer of 2021 for an incident in 2019.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, there is no certainty only speculation but even as someone on the “this doesn’t smell right” side I can’t even imagine he was fired in the summer of 2021 for an incident in 2019.
When people are in the throes of Political Derangement Syndrome no evidence will convince them,
 

djbayko

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I'm not assuming. I'm asking.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see that TL was going to end up in traction again. And against another eastern conference team (and before JB went down also), having Grant playing big minutes at the 5 would have eaten our lunch.

After Jaylen had to sit, it was immaterial anyway. But that shit was unknown at the deadline. What would the conversations have been here were Embiid or even Lopez tapping in garbage buckets over poor Grant's head for 6 or 7 games.
Sure, but I think they realized that they both needed to shake up the roster and sorely needed to add scoring. And they had to make a sacrifice to make that happen. Taking a risk on TL's development and health was worth it to them. I don't see that as a mistake resulting from not understanding or misapplying cap rules. Teams have to make budget decisions all the time.
 

scottyno

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I'm not assuming. I'm asking.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see that TL was going to end up in traction again. And against another eastern conference team (and before JB went down also), having Grant playing big minutes at the 5 would have eaten our lunch.

After Jaylen had to sit, it was immaterial anyway. But that shit was unknown at the deadline. What would the conversations have been here were Embiid or even Lopez tapping in garbage buckets over poor Grant's head for 6 or 7 games.
Embiid dominated Theis in last years playoffs, and that was before he took the leap forward this year, not much reason to think he wouldn't have done the same this year.

With Theis and without Fournier this team wasn't going anywhere this year even if healthy. With Fournier + the upside of TL they had a chance if they could have stayed healthy. Add in that they were almost certainly losing Theis anyway, and this gave them a chance to add a very good scorer that wouldn't have been available to them if they'd waited and it's kind of a no brainer.
 

BringBackMo

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The take that the "old white guy is only interested in other old white guys" is in my opinion itself a racist interpretation on what Ainge said.
This is absolutely absurd.

I agree with @bankshot1 that the comments read as dismissive of young Black athletes and supportive of old white men. I disagree with @bankshot1 that this had anything to do with Ainge no longer being with the team.
 

RetractableRoof

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This is absolutely absurd.

I agree with @bankshot1 that the comments read as dismissive of young Black athletes and supportive of old white men. I disagree with @bankshot1 that this had anything to do with Ainge no longer being with the team.
Stating that you don't find yourself politically influenced by VERY MANY players or celebrities (with no other context) does not dismiss "young Black athletes". It says you value political sources with a different experience base than 'athlete' or 'celebrity'. Any other read IMO is someone trying to fit an agenda. Especially considering the summary led with a compliment of the same players for leveraging their public platform with respect to social issues.

By most accounts, Pop in San Antonio is one of the more influential men in all of sports - on so many levels, yet naming him as an influence is damning because Pop is old/white??? Do you know how many Black players have named Pop as a spectacular personal influence? Were they tone deaf, and dismissive of "young Black athletes" as well? He named one other guy, a former star player who was respected enough to be handed the coaching keys to the super team of fragile egos (is it wrong to note those also "young Black athletes"?) that was assembled in Brooklyn. Clearly, he's respected around the league by many. So why is Ainge dinged because he is one of the many? Additionally, who knows what personal relationship he has with either man as well - do you know? I know I don't. You are choosing to read his statement with a negative social/racial lens, that's on you. And if you want to do that, it's your right... but I'd be curious about a list of people he would have been allowed to mention that would have met your approval. Head of the NBA for being a staunch advocate for social issues and player voices - sorry he's old/white too. If he had listed Red as an example of a primary political influence in his life would it be damning because he was old/white? I mean Red broke most every color barrier the NBA had to offer or does that not count because he was old/white?

In our rush for social justice/advancement, how about we stop attacking/damning people for what they haven't done, and concentrate on advocating for meaningful change? Like Maxwell addressing representation in the executive layers of the Celtics organization for people of color or women for that matter. That is meaningful - and with all the upcoming changes by Stevens et al would seem immediately within reach.
 

mauf

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Nm
 
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RetractableRoof

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I can’t tell if you’re being serious.

If Danny Ainge was an average man on the street, no one would care what he thinks about the politics of NBA players, or of the politics of celebrities more generally. Hell, no one would care if he was just an old baller who retired 30 years ago. Ainge was only fielding this question because he was an NBA executive. And whether he intended to or not, he was speaking for the organization when he answered.

Do you think the way be answered that question was good for the organization, or bad?
He was being interviewed as Danny Ainge, executive of the Boston Celtics, yes? Ainge has throughout his career been known for being frank about his opinions. There is nothing wrong with saying that you aren't influenced by VERY MANY players, that you prefer your influence from outside of athletes and celebrities. That is IMO a reasonable statement. Think of the professional influences Ainge has probably had in his life. Think of the conversations he must have had with Red Auerbach, and the legacy that Auerbach had in sports. Think of the the conversations he must have had with Russell over the years, and the legacy he had/has in sports. So, no I'm not offended that Ainge named as a *current* influence someone who is among the most influential people in all of sports in Pop - someone who for example broke barriers for women the way Auerbach did for people of color. And to ding him because Pop is also an old/white guy is offensive and lazy (IMO). Same as Kerr, but without the enormous reputation, but still has a solid one around the league.

Yes, I'm serious. If people want to re-read a 2 year old interview with today's social lens, and damn him because the solid examples he named as current influencers were white/old, then yeah, I disagree.
 

mauf

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He was being interviewed as Danny Ainge, executive of the Boston Celtics, yes? Ainge has throughout his career been known for being frank about his opinions. There is nothing wrong with saying that you aren't influenced by VERY MANY players, that you prefer your influence from outside of athletes and celebrities. That is IMO a reasonable statement. Think of the professional influences Ainge has probably had in his life. Think of the conversations he must have had with Red Auerbach, and the legacy that Auerbach had in sports. Think of the the conversations he must have had with Russell over the years, and the legacy he had/has in sports. So, no I'm not offended that Ainge named as a *current* influence someone who is among the most influential people in all of sports in Pop - someone who for example broke barriers for women the way Auerbach did for people of color. And to ding him because Pop is also an old/white guy is offensive and lazy (IMO). Same as Kerr, but without the enormous reputation, but still has a solid one around the league.

Yes, I'm serious. If people want to re-read a 2 year old interview with today's social lens, and damn him because the solid examples he named as current influencers were white/old, then yeah, I disagree.
I don’t think it had anything to do with his departure, but it was really dumb for Danny, as an executive in an entertainment business, to convey a dismissive attitude toward the opinions of the talent.
 

RetractableRoof

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I don’t think it had anything to do with his departure, but it was really dumb for Danny, as an executive in an entertainment business, to convey a dismissive attitude toward the opinions of the talent.
So you prefer that he lied, and say pandered to those athletes instead and talked for example about how his life had been changed listening to Kyrie talking about how the earth might be flat?

Sorry, "dumb" or not his opinion was balanced and reasonable.

Edit: And there is a further difference between your comment that I simply disagree with, and those injecting "white/old" into it.
 
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mauf

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So you prefer that he lied, and say pandered to those athletes instead and talked for example about how his life had been changed listening to Kyrie talking about how the earth might be flat?

Sorry, "dumb" or not his opinion was balanced and reasonable.
Sometimes, a business executive needs to keep his personal opinions to himself. This was one of those times.
 

BringBackMo

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Stating that you don't find yourself politically influenced by VERY MANY players or celebrities (with no other context) does not dismiss "young Black athletes". It says you value political sources with a different experience base than 'athlete' or 'celebrity'
So Pop and Kerr are not athletes and celebrities? The absurdity of your argument is best captured in the fact that Pop and Kerr have expressed literally the same opinions as the players. Ainge is quite literally saying that if a political statement is made by Pop and Kerr he’ll respect it, but if the same point is made by the players they coach he will not.

And please stop using Kyrie’s flat Earth statements as an example of the kind of political rubbish we hear from players. That is disingenuous in the extreme. That is most decidedly NOT a political statement, and characterizing it that way elides the kinds of astute political and social critiques that have been made by players like Jaylen and LeBron.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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When I heard the WBUR interview, a couple of days ago, I went from an Ainge supporter to, "this is a problem and he may have to go" Having the head basketball guy basically parrotting Laura Ingraham's "shut up and dribble" is not the best recruiting tool for an organization wholly dependent upon attracting African American ballplayers the best of whom can pick and choose where they play. And this was nipped in the bud now, as the post-season games are still being played to nudge it out of the news cycle ASAP.

So they acted quickly and fashioned a fix. Ainge out, (health) Brad who I think is a pretty good coach, and who may have lost the team during covid and Kyrie (and who is owed a gazillion $) up as head of hoop ops, and a new black coach in.
Obviously we disagree and that's cool but wanted to say a couple of things and then will drop this.

(1) I'm guessing that the posters here on SOSH are pretty informed about the Cs and also socially conscious. Maybe I'm wrong but the feeling I git is that almost every poster (maybe all?) had not heard of that interview until you mentioned it. If that is the case, I just don't see how it could be a PR issue at this point.

(2) You have mentioned Ingraham a couple of times and I think you are overreaching. Telling LBJ to "shut up and dribble" is not even remotely comparable to saying that DA doesn't want to hear political views from athletes and celebrities. Frankly, I'm sure there are at least a couple of NBA players who agrees with him.

(3) And while this dorsn't nevessarily go to your theory, if you listen to the podcast that I mentioned earlier, one of the things DA is known for is how he relates to players as human beings and not as just commodities. It's notable that DA actually tried to connect with players beyond what they do on the court and tries to talk with them about more than Bball.

(4) Finally, if ownership really thought there was going to be a backlash, they wouldn't be keeping DA on and they wouldn't have a splashy presser with DA front and center.

As someone said, sometimes a duck is just a duck. Danny didn't feel like he had the energy necessary to do the job he wanted. There is no reason to believe that this is not the whole truth.
 

Auger34

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It goes back to his college days. Stevens has known Goodman since he was an assistant at Butler. I don't think Brad told anybody outside of his own family about this move, but Jeff knows Brad more than anyone else in the media so like I said I take what he says with a bit more credence because of the long-standing relationship they have.
I’m confused as to what you’re saying here.

You mentioned Goodman being a part of his inner circle. Do you think Brad told him that he was only going to do this for a year? If so, that’s bullshit.

He may know him more than other media members so his opinion may mean more than others but, IMO, Brad’s pretty much locked into this role for 2 years at least.

He’s not hiring a coach then a year later going “Um, you know what...I want my old job back so get lost”. He’s under contract with the Celtics so he can’t just go and take another head coaching job. Maybe this Jon Scheyer head coach in waiting thing is just a ruse and Brad is going to go coach Duke next year but I highly doubt that too.

Goodman may know Brad well but I trust his relationship with Steven’s isn’t as good as Wyc or Pagliuca’s relationship with Brad. And I don’t think they make this change and give him this title without a strong feeling that he’s going to stick with it for a while
 

RetractableRoof

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So Pop and Kerr are not athletes and celebrities? The absurdity of your argument is best captured in the fact that Pop and Kerr have expressed literally the same opinions as the players. Ainge is quite literally saying that if a political statement is made by Pop and Kerr he’ll respect it, but if the same point is made by the players they coach he will not.

And please stop using Kyrie’s flat Earth statements as an example of the kind of political rubbish we hear from players. That is disingenuous in the extreme. That is most decidedly NOT a political statement, and characterizing it that way elides the kinds of astute political and social critiques that have been made by players like Jaylen and LeBron.
IMO Pop's 'celebrity' is a function of his position as a coach, his influential nature - his voice and advocacy for women as candidates for positions in men's sports, his position with USA basketball, etc. His arena is sports, but his 'celebrity' is what he's done with the domain, versus simply his (significant) accomplishments in that arena. Kerr WAS an athlete, his current influence isn't as a celebrity nor as that athletic past (though that may give him credibility with his players), it's a function of his coaching, his analysis. IMO Ainge wasn't referring to Kerr the player when he spoke of him, it was beyond that. Ainge is NOT literally saying the bolded because he specifically said there aren't VERY MANY players who influence him. He is stating that some number do (perhaps the ones that Pop agrees with). That is literally the opposite of what you claim he is stating. How can you deny that - he hasn't said all players, he said not VERY MANY. You can't ignore his words and claim he is saying something different. You are attributing to him a view he has not stated - to suit your narrative. Further, the original poster was himself dismissing Pop and Kerr because they were white. That was my issue, that their positive and significant social/political influence was being dismissed in order to damn Ainge because they were 'white/old'. That is offensive when viewed through a racial lens.

If you (like Mauf and perhaps others) want to say he should have kept his mouth shut as an executive, I'll simply disagree. When "white" get's interjected (as one of the original takes did) it's offensive.

Kyrie is admired among his peers and is seen as an influencer - if you deny that I can't help you. He has also made political statements... for what that is worth. I've already held Jaylen up in this and other threads as someone I believe in socially/politically and hope runs for US Senate. I'm not and have never said there aren't politically astute players in the NBA - I'm saying that damning Ainge for saying there aren't VERY MANY players he finds influential (in the context of preferring non-athletes and non-celebrities) and then doubling down and saying it is a 'white' issue is offensive.

As for LeBron, not a fan, I'll pass on his politics... any more than that belongs in V&N.
 
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bankshot1

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Obviously we disagree and that's cool but wanted to say a couple of things and then will drop this.

(1) I'm guessing that the posters here on SOSH are pretty informed about the Cs and also socially conscious. Maybe I'm wrong but the feeling I git is that almost every poster (maybe all?) had not heard of that interview until you mentioned it. If that is the case, I just don't see how it could be a PR issue at this point.

(2) You have mentioned Ingraham a couple of times and I think you are overreaching. Telling LBJ to "shut up and dribble" is not even remotely comparable to saying that DA doesn't want to hear political views from athletes and celebrities. Frankly, I'm sure there are at least a couple of NBA players who agrees with him.

(3) And while this dorsn't nevessarily go to your theory, if you listen to the podcast that I mentioned earlier, one of the things DA is known for is how he relates to players as human beings and not as just commodities. It's notable that DA actually tried to connect with players beyond what they do on the court and tries to talk with them about more than Bball.

(4) Finally, if ownership really thought there was going to be a backlash, they wouldn't be keeping DA on and they wouldn't have a splashy presser with DA front and center.

As someone said, sometimes a duck is just a duck. Danny didn't feel like he had the energy necessary to do the job he wanted. There is no reason to believe that this is not the whole truth.
We disagree

As I said hours ago "... But its not worth speculating further on events or conversations none of us were party to."
 
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dixoncox

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2) You do not want your GM "easily connecting" with players. As already outlined above, a GM needs to be able to cut and trade guys ruthlessly. You can't do that if you've got close personal relationships with the players. Coaches are the ones who need to have those player relationships, not GMs.
The GM doesn't need to have a close relationship with the players but they can't be ruthless either. The players in this league have too much power and will remember how you treat guys when they are considering joining your team. Trading away Isaiah Thomas, while improving the team, hurt their chances of getting Anthony Davis. GM needs to be able to recruit.
 

scottyno

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The GM doesn't need to have a close relationship with the players but they can't be ruthless either. The players in this league have too much power and will remember how you treat guys when they are considering joining your team. Trading away Isaiah Thomas, while improving the team, hurt their chances of getting Anthony Davis. GM needs to be able to recruit.
Trading Isaiah did not hurt their chances of getting Davis a single bit. Klutch Sports and the Rose rule had everything to do with that.