Brad Stevens: President of Basketball Ops

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
The GM doesn't need to have a close relationship with the players but they can't be ruthless either. The players in this league have too much power and will remember how you treat guys when they are considering joining your team. Trading away Isaiah Thomas, while improving the team, hurt their chances of getting Anthony Davis. GM needs to be able to recruit.
Thomas was traded to a team that still had LeBron and ended up making the Finals. That narrative has been debunked already.
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,316
IMO Pop's 'celebrity' is a function of his position as a coach, his influential nature - his voice and advocacy for women as candidates for positions in men's sports, his position with USA basketball, etc. His arena is sports, but his 'celebrity' is what he's done with the domain, versus simply his (significant) accomplishments in that arena. Kerr WAS an athlete, his current influence isn't as a celebrity nor as that athletic past (though that may give him credibility with his players), it's a function of his coaching, his analysis. IMO Ainge wasn't referring to Kerr the player when he spoke of him, it was beyond that. Ainge is NOT literally saying the bolded because he specifically said there aren't VERY MANY players who influence him. He is stating that some number do (perhaps the ones that Pop agrees with). That is literally the opposite of what you claim he is stating. How can you deny that - he hasn't said all players, he said not VERY MANY. You can't ignore his words and claim he is saying something different. You are attributing to him a view he has not stated - to suit your narrative. Further, the original poster was himself dismissing Pop and Kerr because they were white. That was my issue, that their positive and significant social/political influence was being dismissed in order to damn Ainge because they were 'white/old'. That is offensive when viewed through a racial lens.

If you (like Mauf and perhaps others) want to say he should have kept his mouth shut as an executive, I'll simply disagree. When "white" get's interjected (as one of the original takes did) it's offensive.

Kyrie is admired among his peers and is seen as an influencer - if you deny that I can't help you. He has also made political statements... for what that is worth. I've already held Jaylen up in this and other threads as someone I believe in socially/politically and hope runs for US Senate. I'm not and have never said there aren't politically astute players in the NBA - I'm saying that damning Ainge for saying there aren't VERY MANY players he finds influential (in the context of preferring non-athletes and non-celebrities) and then doubling down and saying it is a 'white' issue is offensive.

As for LeBron, not a fan, I'll pass on his politics... any more than that belongs in V&N.
We’ll probably just have to agree to disagree on these points. My sense is that we both admire Ainge as a basketball executive. And for what it’s worth, he has demonstrated many, many admirable qualities as a person as well. The rest we can respectfully disagree on.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
Even with Fournier hurt, I make that move 100/100. He shot lights out, his Bird rights are worth more than Theis' Bird Rights... it was a clear smart move.
Agree 100%. Fournier was a really good acquisition and one that I lauded at the time it was made. Lots of us here liked the move. I want him on the 2021-22 Celtics.

He shot 46.3% from three as a Celtic. He's exactly the kind of player they needed to add. Obviously, the team didn't advance as far as we all hoped, but when you lose an all-star and #2 player on the team (Brown), your #3 player on the team (Kemba), and your starting center (RWIII), it's going to put other players in positions that they're not ideally suited for, and it's going to be difficult. Fournier was not at all the problem with this team.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
The GM doesn't need to have a close relationship with the players but they can't be ruthless either. The players in this league have too much power and will remember how you treat guys when they are considering joining your team. Trading away Isaiah Thomas, while improving the team, hurt their chances of getting Anthony Davis. GM needs to be able to recruit.
Trading Lil’ Zeke for one of Davis’s friends didn’t hurt their chances of acquiring Davis. Davis hiring LeBron as his agent ended any chance of anyone acquiring Davis. (More precisely, of anyone except the LA LeBroners making an offer as everyone knew that the minute he hit free agency the Unibrower was suiting up for LeBron.)
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
We’ll probably just have to agree to disagree on these points. My sense is that we both admire Ainge as a basketball executive. And for what it’s worth, he has demonstrated many, many admirable qualities as a person as well. The rest we can respectfully disagree on.
I am not sure of the timing, but one quality I like is that he walks the walk. He listed Pop as an influence. Pop participated in the whittling down of the barrier for women coaching in the NBA (men's sports in general?). Under Ainge, (not sure who to credit directly - Ainge or Stevens) Kara Lawson joined the Celtics - meaningful change. I don't believe it was lip service for Ainge to list Pop as a substantial influence - even as he noted he disagreed with some ideas.

The other thing about that interview summary that isn't stated was the context of it. Was it done in a 'Danny Ainge career retrospective' way? Was it pitched in a 'players are getting more social Danny, can we interview to talk about it?' way - in which case there is a lot more ammo for him being tone def. Was it done as a 'state of the Celtics union' way, in which case, maybe the Mauf view point is more valid. Or maybe it was simply a broad ranging "B roll" kind of interview that covered a bunch of topics in a casual setting - in which case I'm even more comfortable pushing back on the 'tone def" narrative.

Yes, disagree... yes, respectfully. Thank you.

Edit: corrected Lawson from Wolters, doh. And to add onto that point - that meaningful change has contributed to the reality of 2 women's names (Hammond/Lawson) being floated for head coach of a men's professional sport. Think about the significance of that for women. To say Ainge is tone def to social issues, is just off base in my eyes.
 
Last edited:

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
The other thing about that interview summary that isn't stated was the context of it. Was it done in a 'Danny Ainge career retrospective' way? Was it pitched in a 'players are getting more social Danny, can we interview to talk about it?' way - in which case there is a lot more ammo for him being tone def. Was it done as a 'state of the Celtics union' way, in which case, maybe the Mauf view point is more valid. Or maybe it was simply a broad ranging "B roll" kind of interview that covered a bunch of topics in a casual setting - in which case I'm even more comfortable pushing back on the 'tone def" narrative.
So just poked around a bit and one thing people should understand is that the interview was at WBUR's CitySpace, which had just opened earlier that year. From what I understand, CitySpace is a pretty ambitious project, a venue at which there could be (as described by WBUR's Director of Community Engagement) "discussions with Boston Marathon champions, celebrated authors and chefs, to brown bag musical performances by local Boston University students, trivia nights with WBUR staff, and adult spelling bees". The conversations that occur at CitySpace are supposed to be "substantive" yet "accessible." So this isn't just an off-the-cuff interview. It's a long-form interview (over an hour) where DA was asked substantial questions and I'm sure was encouraged to have honest and provocative responses.

The entire interview is on the internet. I've added the YT link in case it embeds and anyone is interested in hearing DA for over an hour.

It's kind of impressive that DA would give an evening of his time to this event. Not a lot of GMs would do this I think.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4gbeLV3FdE
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
Agree 100%. Fournier was a really good acquisition and one that I lauded at the time it was made. Lots of us here liked the move. I want him on the 2021-22 Celtics.

He shot 46.3% from three as a Celtic. He's exactly the kind of player they needed to add. Obviously, the team didn't advance as far as we all hoped, but when you lose an all-star and #2 player on the team (Brown), your #3 player on the team (Kemba), and your starting center (RWIII), it's going to put other players in positions that they're not ideally suited for, and it's going to be difficult. Fournier was not at all the problem with this team.
I don't see anyone here questioning the Fournier move.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
I don't see anyone here questioning the Fournier move.
People question the subsequent Theis move, which is really, really weird, since they should be on their knees thanking the god of their choice that the Celtics didn't pick this as a year to go over the tax, only to have Jaylen get hurt and then have Theis leave in UFA.

Continues the pattern of people (not everyone) questioning the few good moves Danny has made recently instead of the many dumb ones.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I don't see anyone here questioning the Fournier move.
I didn’t like it at all as a singular move. Since Ainge couldn’t reshape the roster it seemed more like a deal he did simply to not to nothing. It was one of the several reasons I wanted to move on from him this summer. At the end of the day the cost for an expiring contract wasn’t much but it didn’t accomplish much either. The worst case to me is that we are the ones to overpay which I felt Ainge could have done to justify the move......I don’t expect Brad to do this.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
I didn’t like it at all as a singular move. Since Ainge couldn’t reshape the roster it seemed more like a deal he did simply to not to nothing. It was one of the several reasons I wanted to move on from him this summer. At the end of the day the cost for an expiring contract wasn’t much but it didn’t accomplish much either. The worst case to me is that we are the ones to overpay which I felt Ainge could have done to justify the move......I don’t expect Brad to do this.
Agreed. I was ambivalent to mildly positive on the Fournier move when it happened but he just never seemed to fit on the team. No need to throw good money after bad - sometimes I think teams/GMs can get too focused on the “if we let a player leave we lose his salary spot” which I get but that can’t be the overriding factor for every FA decision.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
So just poked around a bit and one thing people should understand is that the interview was at WBUR's CitySpace, which had just opened earlier that year. From what I understand, CitySpace is a pretty ambitious project, a venue at which there could be (as described by WBUR's Director of Community Engagement) "discussions with Boston Marathon champions, celebrated authors and chefs, to brown bag musical performances by local Boston University students, trivia nights with WBUR staff, and adult spelling bees". The conversations that occur at CitySpace are supposed to be "substantive" yet "accessible." So this isn't just an off-the-cuff interview. It's a long-form interview (over an hour) where DA was asked substantial questions and I'm sure was encouraged to have honest and provocative responses.

The entire interview is on the internet. I've added the YT link in case it embeds and anyone is interested in hearing DA for over an hour.

It's kind of impressive that DA would give an evening of his time to this event. Not a lot of GMs would do this I think.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4gbeLV3FdE
Thanks for the link to the specific interview.

Interesting interview, he talks about a full range of stuff there, from valuing Pierce enough to promise him help, or moving him to a better situation, to acknowledging that players who move after 7 years of hard work for their franchise are justified because their franchises haven't given them enough hope for success. Some good stuff in there. My two cents after watching the entirety: you have to really want a narrative to dig out 3-4 minutes in that interview full of humor, compassion and insight into his players to want to use it as evidence of him being tone deaf, and further to somehow inject "white" tone deafness into that is just... I've got no words... just wow.

@mauf It really was a "Danny Ainge" piece in my mind, in all his capacities - including of course as Celtics GM. He's clearly aware of that, because he jokes about Wyc firing him after the interview. I think he was candid, and while he could have ducked the set of questions that led to this thread digression, I don't think what he said was particularly egregious even while wearing the GM hat. It only gets even close to the line IMO (of GM should have kept quiet) if you remove the totality of the hour plus of talking about the importance of caring about each player, seeing each player as an individual and listening to them, and respecting their individual motivations as players as well as within the team context. In other words, it's only a potential GM issue if you remove the 3-4 minutes from the roughly hour and 15 minutes and zapruder just those isolated few minutes (which is what happened here in this thread).
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,464
I didn’t like it at all as a singular move. Since Ainge couldn’t reshape the roster it seemed more like a deal he did simply to not to nothing. It was one of the several reasons I wanted to move on from him this summer. At the end of the day the cost for an expiring contract wasn’t much but it didn’t accomplish much either. The worst case to me is that we are the ones to overpay which I felt Ainge could have done to justify the move......I don’t expect Brad to do this.
See I don't really get this.
Fournier is a good move.
It gave you more upside this season if Fournier doesn't miss a bunch of time and Jaylen doesn't get hurt this team probably avoids Brooklyn and is maybe still alive in the playoffs.
It also gave you a lot of flexibility after the season. Instead of rights to Theis who you probably aren't resigning and a big expiring TPE of dubious usability, you now have Fournier's rights, who is a better player for you if he comes back at the right price, or if he gets overpaid you can probably turn into another TPE that lasts a year. Plus you still have a nice usable 11M TPE and some small TPEs.
You can't base your judgement on a move on the idea that a future move that is bad will happen (big Fournier overpay).
This is the kind of incremental low downside asset upgrades you need to make.

Also... considering Danny's history of letting even stars walk if they want too much money, and his willingness to move on quickly from mistakes, not sure why you would assume in this one case he'd suddenly overpay.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
See I don't really get this.
Fournier is a good move.
It gave you more upside this season if Fournier doesn't miss a bunch of time and Jaylen doesn't get hurt this team probably avoids Brooklyn and is maybe still alive in the playoffs.
It also gave you a lot of flexibility after the season. Instead of rights to Theis who you probably aren't resigning and a big expiring TPE of dubious usability, you now have Fournier's rights, who is a better player for you if he comes back at the right price, or if he gets overpaid you can probably turn into another TPE that lasts a year. Plus you still have a nice usable 11M TPE and some small TPEs.
You can't base your judgement on a move on the idea that a future move that is bad will happen (big Fournier overpay).
This is the kind of incremental low downside asset upgrades you need to make.

Also... considering Danny's history of letting even stars walk if they want too much money, and his willingness to move on quickly from mistakes, not sure why you would assume in this one case he'd suddenly overpay.
Ainge openly said at the time he was looking to pay Fournier long term which I hated as someone who isn’t a fan of this player especially once he loses a step. I’m not a fan of his game in Orlando either.

I’m not so down on the move in that there weren’t some benefits to it, I understand those parts which are cute and all but only that to compete this season we needed to be more aggressive while getting a head start on the summer.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,478
Melrose, MA
Agreed. I was ambivalent to mildly positive on the Fournier move when it happened but he just never seemed to fit on the team. No need to throw good money after bad - sometimes I think teams/GMs can get too focused on the “if we let a player leave we lose his salary spot” which I get but that can’t be the overriding factor for every FA decision.
that's mainly due to Covid.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,464
Ainge openly said at the time he was looking to pay Fournier long term which I hated as someone who isn’t a fan of this player especially once he loses a step. I’m not a fan of his game in Orlando either.

I’m not so down on the move in that there weren’t some benefits to it, I understand those parts which are cute and all but only that to compete this season we needed to be more aggressive while getting a head start on the summer.
I assume you mean trading Smart for Gordon? That's a reasonable take, but also basically the only move on the table. As with most of these "Why didn't they make this move" discussions it comes down to what other teams were willing to do.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
that's mainly due to Covid.
Yeah. I can see not liking the player because he's kind of weak on defense, especially considering his size. I'm a fan anyway, because he has good feel and shoots well (and isn't a smurf). But not being a fan is a defensible position.

But questioning the fit when he got acclimated, looked great, and then got covid is short sighted at best. His game is mostly what we needed for the time being. Whether he's a good long term fit is an interesting question.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
5,872
Agreed. I was ambivalent to mildly positive on the Fournier move when it happened but he just never seemed to fit on the team. No need to throw good money after bad - sometimes I think teams/GMs can get too focused on the “if we let a player leave we lose his salary spot” which I get but that can’t be the overriding factor for every FA decision.
I think some of this is not even fair in hindsight. How much of a fit he was is hard to judge given how many people went down, but he scored very efficiently. If the Celtics had trotted out a healthy Jaylen Brown for the playoffs, we might still be playing the Nets, and having Fournier there to provide some efficient scoring would have allowed us to be competitive offensively. He provided something the team had really needed: a disciplined offensive player who's excellent at the catch-and-shoot. Joe Harris plays a similar and equally important role for the Nets. The difference between the two rosters would have still been substantial, but Tatum, Brown, and Fournier is a pretty good offensive trio. And much as I hate thinking about the cliff Kemba is teetering over, if he'd stay healthy too we might have even blown the Nets out once or twice.

My biggest gripes were than he only took around 10 shots a game -- much less than he should have given how much more efficient he is than Kemba and Marcus -- and couldn't handle the defensive assignments he was being asked to handle. I don't think that was on Fournier, I think that was a mix of COVID and trying to fit into a new offensive ecosystem, something he might have had more time to do if he hadn't gone down. And while bringing him off the bench would have been one thing, once Jaylen went down, asking him and Kemba to defend at the point of attack was unfair, but necessitated by all the injuries. The fact that he only took 63 shots would seem to be one that's as much on the offense as it is on Fournier, but I also saw him struggle with the intensity of the face-guarding that comes with the playoffs, so I can see why people would be sour on him.

It was not the best move Danny could have made, but it was one that seemed to strengthen the Celtics at a place where they really needed help: shooting and playmaking to take the burden off Tatum, Kemba, Brown, and especially Smart. The other places where they needed help -- rim protection, for example -- those possibilities were foreclosed when Williams went down again.

In the end, I think there are a lot of players as good as Fournier out there. I think he was a decent fit for a run at the playoffs, but whether or not the Celtics decide to bring him back will depend a lot on what kind of role Fournier wants and how much other teams are willing to pay for a good 3rd option on offense. If the Celtics can bring him back for a similar contract, I think they'll do it, because he's exactly the kind of complementary scorer they need, especially if poor Kemba heads down the drain.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory
I’m confused as to what you’re saying here.

You mentioned Goodman being a part of his inner circle. Do you think Brad told him that he was only going to do this for a year? If so, that’s bullshit.

He may know him more than other media members so his opinion may mean more than others but, IMO, Brad’s pretty much locked into this role for 2 years at least.

He’s not hiring a coach then a year later going “Um, you know what...I want my old job back so get lost”. He’s under contract with the Celtics so he can’t just go and take another head coaching job. Maybe this Jon Scheyer head coach in waiting thing is just a ruse and Brad is going to go coach Duke next year but I highly doubt that too.

Goodman may know Brad well but I trust his relationship with Steven’s isn’t as good as Wyc or Pagliuca’s relationship with Brad. And I don’t think they make this change and give him this title without a strong feeling that he’s going to stick with it for a while
I don't think Jeff Goodman knew anything before it was announced because he told Z&B yesterday he had no idea. While I think the most likely outcome is that Brad sticks in this role for a few years, it certainly would not shock me if this time next year an NBA team calls Brad with interest in their head coaching position and he feels as if he's recharged enough to go back to the coaching lifestyle. It's who he's been for his entire career. The whole under contract thing won't matter much if there's offset language in his contract that lessens the amount Wyc would have to pay him in an exit. He's not going back to college so the only competition is a really good NBA head coaching job. I hope he sticks around for the long haul like Danny did, but every year we're going to have to deal with "Is Brad a candidate for X NBA job?"
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I don't think Jeff Goodman knew anything before it was announced because he told Z&B yesterday he had no idea. While I think the most likely outcome is that Brad sticks in this role for a few years, it certainly would not shock me if this time next year an NBA team calls Brad with interest in their head coaching position and he feels as if he's recharged enough to go back to the coaching lifestyle. It's who he's been for his entire career. The whole under contract thing won't matter much if there's offset language in his contract that lessens the amount Wyc would have to pay him in an exit. He's not going back to college so the only competition is a really good NBA head coaching job. I hope he sticks around for the long haul like Danny did, but every year we're going to have to deal with "Is Brad a candidate for X NBA job?"
I guess it's possible but a head coaching job is a demotion so I'm not sure other teams would be able to even talk to him about a head coaching job.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I could be wrong, I don't know if the NBA is one of those leagues that only lets you poach other organizations non player personal if it's a promotion for them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
I think some of this is not even fair in hindsight. How much of a fit he was is hard to judge given how many people went down, but he scored very efficiently. If the Celtics had trotted out a healthy Jaylen Brown for the playoffs, we might still be playing the Nets, and having Fournier there to provide some efficient scoring would have allowed us to be competitive offensively. He provided something the team had really needed: a disciplined offensive player who's excellent at the catch-and-shoot. Joe Harris plays a similar and equally important role for the Nets. The difference between the two rosters would have still been substantial, but Tatum, Brown, and Fournier is a pretty good offensive trio. And much as I hate thinking about the cliff Kemba is teetering over, if he'd stay healthy too we might have even blown the Nets out once or twice.

My biggest gripes were than he only took around 10 shots a game -- much less than he should have given how much more efficient he is than Kemba and Marcus -- and couldn't handle the defensive assignments he was being asked to handle. I don't think that was on Fournier, I think that was a mix of COVID and trying to fit into a new offensive ecosystem, something he might have had more time to do if he hadn't gone down. And while bringing him off the bench would have been one thing, once Jaylen went down, asking him and Kemba to defend at the point of attack was unfair, but necessitated by all the injuries. The fact that he only took 63 shots would seem to be one that's as much on the offense as it is on Fournier, but I also saw him struggle with the intensity of the face-guarding that comes with the playoffs, so I can see why people would be sour on him.

It was not the best move Danny could have made, but it was one that seemed to strengthen the Celtics at a place where they really needed help: shooting and playmaking to take the burden off Tatum, Kemba, Brown, and especially Smart. The other places where they needed help -- rim protection, for example -- those possibilities were foreclosed when Williams went down again.

In the end, I think there are a lot of players as good as Fournier out there. I think he was a decent fit for a run at the playoffs, but whether or not the Celtics decide to bring him back will depend a lot on what kind of role Fournier wants and how much other teams are willing to pay for a good 3rd option on offense. If the Celtics can bring him back for a similar contract, I think they'll do it, because he's exactly the kind of complementary scorer they need, especially if poor Kemba heads down the drain.
This.

One added benefit of Brad Stevens, grocery shopper, is that at least for now he is about as tapped in to team chemistry as a front office person could be. Again, if you subscribe to the view that Tatum and Brown need to have a big say in whom their next coach is, you should also want them to be comfortable with their running mates. To me, the question about Fournier isn't basketball fit - though he gets put in jail a bit too much for my liking - its more chemistry. Is this a guy Tatum/Brown etc want on their side when they go to battle each night? That's my biggest question about Fournier's potential role with the team longer term.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory
I guess it's possible but a head coaching job is a demotion so I'm not sure other teams would be able to even talk to him about a head coaching job.
They would have to ask for permission to speak with Brad. If Brad makes it known that he wants to return to the bench, I don't think Wyc would stand in his way. It could get real contentious if he wants to coach again and Wyc says no.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I could be wrong, I don't know if the NBA is one of those leagues that only lets you poach other organizations non player personal if it's a promotion for them.
I keep hearing this too and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would Brad willingly take a demotion aside from wholeheartedly despising being an executive? The other part people aren’t recognizing is that when they say, “He’s been a coach his whole life and knows nothing else”......when you are a collegiate coach you ARE the GM/Dir of BB Ops who runs the entire basketball organization (yes, some have Dir of Ops but he didn’t at Butler) so to say he’s never done a job like this is inherently false. He put those Butler teams together with the selecting/recruiting of personnel.....he not only coached them.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,024
I keep hearing this too and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would Brad willingly take a demotion aside from wholeheartedly despising being an executive? The other part people aren’t recognizing is that when they say, “He’s been a coach his whole life and knows nothing else”......when you are a collegiate coach you ARE the GM/Dir of BB Ops who runs the entire basketball organization (yes, some have Dir of Ops but he didn’t at Butler) so to say he’s never done a job like this is inherently false. He put those Butler teams together with the selecting/recruiting of personnel.....he not only coached them.
College coaches say all the time how their favorite part of the job is the time they spend on the practice court. In the NBA, especially during the COVID seasons, there's been virtually no practice. That can't have been fun for Stevens, who seems to really enjoy the teaching/development parts.
 
Last edited:

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
College coaches say all the time how their favorite part of the job is the time they spent on the practice court. In the NBA, especially during the COVID seasons, there's been virtually no practice. That can't have been fun for Stevens, who seems to really enjoy the teaching/development parts.
Everyone is different. Brad may love the player personnel stuff. Maybe he won't. Who the fuck knows. He might not even fucking know.

He's certainly a high functioning guy, and it's absurd for anyone to suggest that he can't be good at the job.

It seems a couple of years premature to worry whether he might decide someday that coaching is more his bag. If he does, then Wyc et al. will put Succession Plan 2024 into place.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory
I keep hearing this too and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would Brad willingly take a demotion aside from wholeheartedly despising being an executive? The other part people aren’t recognizing is that when they say, “He’s been a coach his whole life and knows nothing else”......when you are a collegiate coach you ARE the GM/Dir of BB Ops who runs the entire basketball organization (yes, some have Dir of Ops but he didn’t at Butler) so to say he’s never done a job like this is inherently false. He put those Butler teams together with the selecting/recruiting of personnel.....he not only coached them.
I've been saying this and I know what a head coach in college does. You have final say on the roster, etc but you're a coach. A president of basketball operations in the NBA is not the same. The thing that is the same is that you're evaluating players. In college, you're not dealing with a salary cap, dealing with agents is on a completely different level than in college, and you're not negotiating with other teams in trades and free agent discussions. Now, some qualities can transfer over in terms of player evaluations and recruiting a free agent like you're recruiting a high school recruit but I'm not going to pretend that the two positions are the same.

I wouldn't get caught up in the promotion/demotion thing either. He'll get paid just as much to be a head coach that he is now and could ask for and get final say on the roster if the team wants him that badly.

The director of basketball ops at the college level is an entry level position who takes care of tasks such as team travel and meals, being a liasion to support staff members, coordinating summer camps, overseeing team managers, etc. It's not what some think it is.

I want Brad to be here for the long haul as I really like him and think he would probably be really good in a front office role. But it's not the same as coaching and if he gets the itch again I really don't think Wyc would stand in his way because of the relationship they have.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I think Chauncey will be the first choice for both organizations. It may come down to who makes a move first.
Lots of talk about Brad interviewing his assistant coaches.....Scott Morrison, Jay Larranaga, and Jerome Allen. These guys make more sense to me as they satisfy Brad’s comfort level more than some of the names being thrown who don’t have any ties to Brad whatsoever.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Lots of talk about Brad interviewing his assistant coaches.....Scott Morrison, Jay Larranaga, and Jerome Allen. These guys make more sense to me as they satisfy Brad’s comfort level more than some of the names being thrown who don’t have any ties to Brad whatsoever.
The vibe I get (with no inside info!) is that those assistants also have strong connections to most of the players from having developed them, so I could see it. I'd guess Allen or Larranga if I had to.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,302
Lots of talk about Brad interviewing his assistant coaches.....Scott Morrison, Jay Larranaga, and Jerome Allen. These guys make more sense to me as they satisfy Brad’s comfort level more than some of the names being thrown who don’t have any ties to Brad whatsoever.
It’s hard to get fresh perspective or new voices by hiring internal candidates to be both President of Basketball Operations and Head Coach. It could also be a minefield to elevate one assistant (Allen) over the two others. I’m expecting Stevens to hire someone from outside of the organization.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,024
It’s hard to get fresh perspective or new voices by hiring internal candidates to be both President of Basketball Operations and Head Coach. It could also be a minefield to elevate one assistant (Allen) over the two others. I’m expecting Stevens to hire someone from outside of the organization.
Nothing against Larranaga, who from all accounts is a talented young coach, but that hire wouldn't do much for me.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Nothing against Larranaga, who from all accounts is a talented young coach, but that hire wouldn't do much for me.
Is he really even that young anymore in todays game at 46? It seems like yesterday when he last interviewed for the Celtics job......but it was EIGHT years ago!

One name that checks off a lot of boxes who isn’t talked about here is Charles Lee from the Hawks.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
Everyone is different. Brad may love the player personnel stuff. Maybe he won't. Who the fuck knows. He might not even fucking know.

He's certainly a high functioning guy, and it's absurd for anyone to suggest that he can't be good at the job.
This is where I'm at, I honestly doubt Brad even knows if he will like it. But he's a smart guy and knows a lot of basketball, I don't think there is any reason he can't be good if he is committed to it.

The obvious concern is that he has so little experience. Even the smartest best superstar year 1 Harvard medical resident is not as good as your average Joe Shmo attending with 10 years of experience at first.

It's a pretty critical point for the franchise with Tatum and Jaylen coming into their primes, a clear lack of depth, a difficult contract in Kemba, and no coach. Would be a big challenge for even the most experienced executives. Not saying Brad can't pull it off, but I'm hoping Danny, Zarren, and potentially a new hire are prominently involved until he has gotten his feet wet.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,661
where I was last at
I don't know Brad, but IMO he's got gym rat-whistle blowing coach written all over him. I could have seen this move maybe 5 years/2-3 championships from now. He seems to love coaching. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him coaching again.

As an aside, I'm not a twitter guy, but have any players other than Marcus tweeted anything about Brad and Danny?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
It’s hard to get fresh perspective or new voices by hiring internal candidates to be both President of Basketball Operations and Head Coach. It could also be a minefield to elevate one assistant (Allen) over the two others. I’m expecting Stevens to hire someone from outside of the organization.
OTOH, I'm sure Brad has a pretty good idea of how he wants the Cs to work, particularly from an on-court perspective. For example, I don't think he's hiring someone who is going to start having the Cs play drop coverage on defense.

It will be interesting to see how Brad fills out the rest of the organization.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I don't know Brad, but IMO he's got gym rat-whistle blowing coach written all over him. I could have seen this move maybe 5 years/2-3 championships from now. He seems to love coaching. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him coaching again.

As an aside, I'm not a twitter guy, but have any players other than Marcus tweeted anything about Brad and Danny?

I don't know Brad and got the opposite impression. To me, he looks like a guy who wants to spend more time with his family while starting the next chapter of his life. He gets to do so while staying involved in the NBA, a job that I think better fits his skill set.

Most good coaches end up wanting some input on player personal or even aspire to be GMs. A lot of them even go on to become GMs. I'd guess he gives this job 4 years minimum unless he's forced out for being absolutely dreadful. He's at least going to want to fail with his team, not Ainge's. It's not going to be his team/his vision until at least year 2 if not 3 most likely.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,661
where I was last at
I don't know Brad and got the opposite impression. To me, he looks like a guy who wants to spend more time with his family while starting the next chapter of his life. He gets to do so while staying involved in the NBA, a job that I think better fits his skill set.

Most good coaches end up wanting some input on player personal or even aspire to be GMs. A lot of them even go on to become GMs. I'd guess he gives this job 4 years minimum unless he's forced out for being absolutely dreadful. He's at least going to want to fail with his team, not Ainge's. It's not going to be his team/his vision until at least year 2 if not 3 most likely.
I don't disagree big picture, BUT its just that he signed an 5-6 year extension to be HC just last year and he's a young man at 44. For whatever reason for a thoughtful guy who probably can assess risk and reward, he had a pretty quick change of opinion about his career path.

As posted more than once, he's smart and I think he will likely do a good job, but I have a handle on his skill set (strengths and weaknesses) as a coach, I don't understand that set as well as a prospective GM as IMO its a wholly different job with different requirements.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
S. Clifford not returning to Orlando is pretty surprising. He’s a fantastic coach. He immediately jumps to #1 on my list of potential candidates.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
S. Clifford not returning to Orlando is pretty surprising. He’s a fantastic coach. He immediately jumps to #1 on my list of potential candidates.
He’s been fired by two organizations in the past four years and was heavily criticized in Charlotte for not adapting to analytics. Hard pass.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
He’s been fired by two organizations in the past four years and was heavily criticized in Charlotte for not adapting to analytics. Hard pass.
I tend to agree, I would stay away. He didn't have much to work with in Orlando, and Fournier/Gordon haven't exactly been world beaters since they left. But still don't think he is an upper echelon coach.

This entire coaching search is such a strange dynamic, but I wonder how much Stevens will check in with Tatum/Brown about it. It's not really clear to me if those 2 liked Stevens as a coach or what they think of this entire shake-up.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
There is a zero percent chance Brad voluntarily leaves the Celtics this year. Next year? Sure maybe if it's a bad fit. But he literally just accepted the PoBO job knowing full well what that job will entail - he's not going to leave after a few months. If he still wanted to coach that bad he wouldn't have accepted the job in the first place.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
Are the Pacers going to trade Brogdon and filler for Brad and Kemba? If so sign me up for the Austin Ainge era.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
There is a zero percent chance Brad voluntarily leaves the Celtics this year. Next year? Sure maybe if it's a bad fit. But he literally just accepted the PoBO job knowing full well what that job will entail - he's not going to leave after a few months. If he still wanted to coach that bad he wouldn't have accepted the job in the first place.
I don't expect Brad to leave either, but I do find the entire situation fascinating. He just signed a long term contract to coach and has been steadfast about his love of coaching. His decision was made at a pretty awkward time... Ainge wanting to leave, the team underperforming, brand new contract, likely some degree of pressure from ownership to go this route. It wouldn't shock me as he decompresses from the season and starts to try to learn an entirely new job, he has some second thoughts. Again, I don't expect him to leave now (if anything I think he will give it an honest effort for a year), but I don't think it's impossible either.

Presuming Brad is the architect of this offseason.... what huge task this is for someone without any true FO experience. I'm a little surprised Wyc and company are handing the reins over to him, I wonder how many reliable safeguards they have in place. I mentioned this before, but I think of Brad as a superstar Harvard intern fresh out of med school on the wards Day 1. Likely to be a great doc down the road but also totally overwhelmed and quite unsafe to be practicing solo without supervision.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,024
Presuming Brad is the architect of this offseason.... what huge task this is for someone without any true FO experience. I'm a little surprised Wyc and company are handing the reins over to him, I wonder how many reliable safeguards they have in place. I mentioned this before, but I think of Brad as a superstar Harvard intern fresh out of med school on the wards Day 1. Likely to be a great doc down the road but also totally overwhelmed and quite unsafe to be practicing solo without supervision.
All of which is why retaining Zarren in particular, at least until Stevens gets the lay of the land, would seem to be critical.
 
Last edited:

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
All of which is why retaining Zarren in particular, at least until Stevens gets the lay of the land, would seem to be critical.
Yeah that's huge.

I think that it's fair to have some reservations about Brad's ability to handle negotiations with other GMs, agents, and professional players. He lacks first hand experience being responsible for those engagements.

However, this isn't something that just materialized out of thin air. They have plans on top of plans, with contingency plans on top of them. Brad has been in those conversations with Danny, Zarren, and ownership. Danny didn't give two weeks notice and hand the keys to Brad. Brad will be navigating through plans that were socialized up and down the ladder already.