Bill vs. Don vs. Time


PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
Hingham, MA
This is stupid, and you know it. Reid has taken multiple QBs to the Super Bowl. It's a fact. BB has taken one. I don't hold it against him because he had Brady for most of his career, but outside of Brady, he hasn't had the same success. It's just a fact.

Reid deserves credit for this, it's a tremendous accomplishment for an NFL HC and BB simply hasn't done it.
It also means he was fired. Obviously BB was once upon a time too. But BB wasn't fired from a team that he took to the Super Bowl.


SoSH Member
Sep 22, 2021
I wouldn’t trust Andy Reid to manage the clock in madden let alone an actual NFL game. There’s that too.


SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
I'm not as confident as you that Reid wouldn't also have an elite defense because... more often than not, his teams have also had elite defenses. And they're typically able to do that because Reid doesn't need a ton of resources to make a good offense - even these Chiefs teams, outside of one year, have had an average or above defense. It's not like Reid goes somewhere and the team becomes the Manning era Colts.

I think you need to better calibrate what a Hall of Fame level QB is if you have McNabb and Vick in there. No, they're not. Not even close. You might as well put Kirk Cousins in the Hall of Fame if you think those guys are deserving. Also, Mac Jones is a guy who doesn't turn the ball over that much - do you think he has the same kind of season playing for Reid instead of BB? Regardless of weapons?

I'm not saying Andy Reid is absolutely a better coach. I'm not saying anything close to that. I believe it may be closer than we think, particularly in the current environment where offense is more important than defense.
I don't disagree with your larger points. Andy Reid is obviously an accomplished football coach, and acknowledging that does nothing to detract from what Belichick has accomplished either. I don't sign up for the "won one playoff game w/o Brady" nonsense at all. However, I do need to question the bolded a bit. First, I think it understates the Chiefs defense. They were 12th in the NFL in yards allowed, and their 5.1 yards allowed per play is up there with the league's top defenses, equal to the Bills and Cowboys (Eagles were 4.8; Pats were 5.0). Bengals were no slouch defensively either, and probably could have won a repeat trip to the Super Bowl if not for a couple of missed plays on offense and a poorly organized officiating crew.

I saw someone point out last week that Bill has only coached 6 games in NE without a Pro Bowl QB starting (2 by Hoyer, 2 by Brissett and 2 by Zappe). Of course, 2021 Mac, 2008 Cassel, 2020 Cam and 2016 Garoppolo aren't what you'd call "Pro Bowl QBs", but it's just funny how much you can spin reality.
The coaching jobs that were done with Matt Cassel (who never approached his 2008 stats again in his career) and the 2020 Cam (who was far more washed up than anyone realized) do deserve some credit. Still completely fucked up that the 11 win 2008 Pats team missed the playoffs, still the only 11 win team to do so since 6 teams per conference qualified.

Bill (and McDaniels) also deserve a ton of credit for dealing with the Brady suspension in 2016 and going 3-1 with a 4th round rookie QB playing 2.5 of those games. But I'll also acknowledge that team was an offensive powerhouse across the board.

Al Zarilla

SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
San Andreas Fault
I think Reid's biggest impediment will be his health. He does not strike me as a guy who takes great care of himself.
There are people who are way overweight who live into their 90s. My wife happened to be watching when they showed a closeup of him and said "who is that?" That's Andy Reid, KC coach, he's always looked like that. Even when he won that punt pass and kick thing as a 12 YO, he was twice as big as the other contestants.


Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
Smith was a bust until Harbaugh came along, then Kaepernick won the job from him. It's not like he was ever viewed as an elite talent after his draft. He's most notable for being someone you're looking forward to replacing, but in KC, Reid had him passing more than ever, and he was good at it, too. And maybe I'm skeptical because of his time with Washington and the shortness of his peak, but I think maybe Reid had more to do with McNabb being a borderline HoF than McNabb did (because he was also able to take a guy like Smith and turn him into a pro bowl QB).
Alex Smith may have been a bust by definition. But first he was drafted into a 49er team with absolutely no weapons. (as many teams with the # 1 pick tend to be). Then he had like 6 different coordinators. He was doing ok under Nirv Turner actually until someone decided to make him a HC again. Harbaugh provided stability and the team had some weapons by then. Plus they had a killer D.

That being said, it does say something when he was benched for unknowns in SF under Singletary, then for Kaepernick (who did make a Super Bowl that one time at least). Then was unlucky to lose his job to Mahomes.

We will never know but I don't really think he was a bust. Reid probably got more out of him than others and that makes him a great coach though.