BB open to relinquishing GM duties?

[loshjott]

If BB had already beaten Shula's record, is he announcing his retirement this week? Belichick or no Belichick, as an owner not named Bob Kraft I'd be a little leery handing the reins to a 71 yr old who has 2-4 years left in his career. Different situation with him staying, of course, because he's not starting a whole new regime that won't last long

 

[Harry Hooper]

Bedard's insta-analysis of this morning's comments from BB:

Now, you could certainly take that as Belichick wanting to stay, being open to big changes and making his opening pitch to ownership.

But there's another real possibility: Belichick has read the tea leaves, thinks he might be out and he was basically telling the Krafts that they'll have to fire him and pay him — while telling other teams what his situation is and what he'd be open to should they entertain his services.
...
Belichick might want to stay here because it's what he's known for 24 years and change isn't easy, but he's only going to do it on his terms — he's not rolling over. If the Krafts don't like that, they are going to have to fire him and pay the balance of his contract.

I think Bedard is on target with this. BB unprecedented talk about his contract that he intends to continue working under is a message to the Krafts and all other teams.

 

[Red Averages]

Just to add on:

- my assumption is he wants to coach for ~2 more years. That lets him break Shula's record, get the team on the right path, ultimately have more of a succession handoff in place that continues to move the franchise forward and ideally sets up his own kids for success in their NFL careers.
- I do not think he's excited about trying to "start over" somewhere else. This is someone that worked for a variety of owners/organizations and has stressed many times the culture/environment is everything. Hiring an entire new (or mostly new) staff, all new players, while potentially not having full control is not an endeavor I expect many 70+ year olds who are widely viewed as the greatest to ever do it, would want to do. I can't picture Pop doing that in the NBA for example.
- I do think they generally tried to tank, or not coach to win for the last half of the season so I'd throw out almost all of it. The team sucked, that's not up for debate.
- If I'm the Krafts, the fans seem to want him back, BB is generally accepting of the fact that he needs more help on the personnel side, and they do not seem to have a good succession plan. I do not think they expected to need one in 2024.
- Bringing him back for ~2 years, with a rebuilt front office (much like the Celtics did to their coaching staff), solves a lot of this.

I actually thought BB's comment about what time the meeting was "leave that in house, could be more than one meeting" fascinating. That not only indicates nothing has been finalized, but a willingness to make it an iterative process to get the organization on the right path from ownership to coaching to front office, AS A PARTNERSHIP.

 

[Red Averages]

Bedard's insta-analysis of this morning's comments from BB:




I think Bedard is on target with this. BB unprecedented talk about his contract that he intends to continue working under is a message to the Krafts and all other teams.

Why would BB need to message other teams? If he's fired he can tell them directly. I think it just shows his preference, he wants to stay, he's open to bringing in help as they underperformed. Take sports out of it. This happens all the time at the highest levels of business/finance when long established teams that are used to success have had a few down years.

 

[Jinhocho]

Bedard's insta-analysis of this morning's comments from BB:




I think Bedard is on target with this. BB unprecedented talk about his contract that he intends to continue working under is a message to the Krafts and all other teams.

I guess I never think Bedard is on target.

While we do not know anything, it has amazed me the degree to which people assume Bill wants to go or would be fine going. He has had an unprecedented run, full of records and memories here in the building and on the sideline. He has basically built this organization along the way. He was raised by a man who valued a lot of the things people seem to miss - loyalty, continuity, building a legacy, etc. He has also been heavily influenced by owners and coaches who modeled what long careers in specific places look like. I think it is entirely consistent with we have seen with him over the years to think that he values being in NE incredibly much and wants to finish his career here.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Why would BB need to message other teams? If he's fired he can tell them directly. I think it just shows his preference, he wants to stay, he's open to bringing in help as they underperformed. Take sports out of it. This happens all the time at the highest levels of business/finance when long established teams that are used to success have had a few down years.

Well I assume since he's not allowed to talk to them, he wants them to know he's an option even if they have a GM in mind. Bill isn't getting fired today is my guess, so if he's open to coach (no GM) roles elsewhere, it helps for clubs looking for their coach and GM to be separate to know Bill is an option before they build their search, helps them in taking with their GM candidates.

 

[CR67dream]

Why would BB need to message other teams?

Personally I think it opens the eyes of several teams that have assumed he'd want full control based on his current position(s) and wouldn't be willing to go that far.

I think it is entirely consistent with we have seen with him over the years to think that he values being in NE incredibly much and wants to finish his career here.

I agree with this 100%, but I think that it's pretty clear that if he can't, he's going to choose the terms. And I think that he's earned every right to do so. There was a point I could squint and see a cooperative effort to facilitate a trade/compensation come to pass, and I suppose this could be 4D chess and there is such a deal that he would agree to, but I just don't see it, because he just doesn't have to, and it would just cost the acquiring team capital for no reason.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I guess I never think Bedard is on target.

While we do not know anything, it has amazed me the degree to which people assume Bill wants to go or would be fine going. He has had an unprecedented run, full of records and memories here in the building and on the sideline. He has basically built this organization along the way. He was raised by a man who valued a lot of the things people seem to miss - loyalty, continuity, building a legacy, etc. He has also been heavily influenced by owners and coaches who modeled what long careers in specific places look like. I think it is entirely consistent with we have seen with him over the years to think that he values being in NE incredibly much and wants to finish his career here.

This is a sound take, and I probably haven’t considered his deep roots and connection to both the organization and the region enough in my attempts at tea-leaf reading. I mean, his love of, and easy access to Nantucket alone. Throw in family roots, his relationships within the organization, the unique status of coaching one team for this long, etc. Maybe he has reached a point in his life and career where those things matter more than having absolute authority over everything in the football operation.

 

[sezwho]

By making clear that he's under contract, and that his contract gives him full control over football operations, he's saying that Kraft will have to fire him to change that. Unless he agrees to some changes, which it looks like he may just be willing to do. Or it may just be BB saying if you want me gone, you're going to have to fire me and own it. There will be no compensation. It's not complicated.

The only thing that would change the dynamic is if Bill had a place he wanted to go and needed Kraft to cooperate.

How do people feel about Bill having final say, but the process (and personnel) in getting to the decision point seeing a major overhaul? I’d like to believe there’s potential for a lot of improvement even if that’s the case, but I imagine there are some here for whom the final say piece is still somewhat of a dealbreaker?

That’s what we have now: Bill doing what he wants with a process underneath. Deck chairs.

 

[Archer1979]

A few points from my perspective (and a ton of it is wishcasting on my part)...

The Pats have been fairly tight-lipped throughout the Belichick era. I'm inclined to take all the noise about his departure in the media as click-bait speculation as it seems like this is something that would not have a real source as only the Krafts and Belechick know for certain. I'm somewhat convinced that the final decision hasn't been made yet and if it has been made, it is that he's staying. The logic for me in this is that Kraft is a bigger fan than all of us. If the decision had been made, yesterday would have been a celebration of his career with the Pats rather than just watching Coach make headway into the tunnel. This has been a nearly 30 year relationship between the two. Kraft will show the proper respect.

This end of the year meeting takes on a lot more significance if Kraft and Belichick haven't touched base throughout the season. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Belichick hasn't already communicated what he sees as the issue(s) this year and that he is willing to relinquish the GM role but still reserve the right to have final say (basically he doesn't shop for the groceries but gets to say what makes it inside the house).

We're looking at Belichick as an employee of the Patriots' organization. While true, there is a ton of loyalty between Belichick and Kraft and Belichick has treated this team as his own. While he doesn't have actual ownership of the team, he does approach it as if he owns the team. If he sees himself as the problem, he'll step aside. He's a smart guy and has a pretty good idea of what will and will not improve this team. His comments today most likely reveal that team building may be more of a team effort than it has been in the past.

Belichick has the third pick in the draft. I've said before that this team would have been in the playoff hunt if the team had a league average quarterback. What we essentially saw this year was one player's collapse take the whole team down with him. The reason I bring this up is that this year's major problem will not be next year's (should they select a legit franchise QB). Why would Kraft think that any other coach that he could bring in would be better? This is an ideal scenario for Kraft in that Belichick relinquishes some of his control to help build the bridge to when he eventually does retire and fully hand over the reins.

 

[Rico Guapo]

We're looking at Belichick as an employee of the Patriots' organization. While true, there is a ton of loyalty between Belichick and Kraft and Belichick has treated this team as his own. While he doesn't have actual ownership of the team, he does approach it as if he owns the team. If he sees himself as the problem, he'll step aside. He's a smart guy and has a pretty good idea of what will and will not improve this team. His comments today most likely reveal that team building may be more of a team effort than it has been in the past.

Bill isn't going to recognize his own shortcomings as GM as the ultimate problem with the team, not at this stage of his life.

Belichick has the third pick in the draft. I've said before that this team would have been in the playoff hunt if the team had a league average quarterback. What we essentially saw this year was one player's collapse take the whole team down with him. The reason I bring this up is that this year's major problem will not be next year's (should they select a legit franchise QB). Why would Kraft think that any other coach that he could bring in would be better? This is an ideal scenario for Kraft in that Belichick relinquishes some of his control to help build the bridge to when he eventually does retire and fully hand over the reins.

Mac was a huge part of the problem this year but the OL sucks, particularly at pass blocking, and the WR/TE groups are almost as bad.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Bill is going to be 72 years old before next season starts. I’m not sure he even wants to be GM anymore. I do think there’s a real possibility he stays on board here and they find a GM he’s worked with in some capacity in the past (Bill knows a few guys around the league…). McDaniels would come back, too, and in fact McDaniels might view this as an ideal fit with the draft capital and cap space available. I’m not really sure what better option Kraft would have if BB and McDaniels are willing to do this. It’s kind of a dream scenario, actually.

Mac was a huge part of the problem this year but the OL sucks, particularly at pass blocking, and the WR/TE groups are almost as bad.

Eh, when both units are healthy, I’d say overall it’s pretty close to average overall. Probably a bit below average, but not THAT bad. Depth at Tackle is pretty awful, though I don’t think it’s unfixable. Even one guy changes things.

 

[tims4wins]

This was my take. Likely wants to bring in more senior voices to improve the inputs to the process, allow them to set the research agenda and ultimately take more of the research away from him so he's approving/offering suggestions rather than doing the leg work. That would allow him to focus on the coaching, while still having final say, but in more of a "go, no go" vs. let me call 30 teams to get a deal done process.

I don’t get the impression that this would be any different than how it works today, aside from the word “senior”. Bill isn’t calling the other teams and discussing trade terms. I don’t believe he ever has.

Edit: I don’t get the sense too many people truly understand what his role is as GM. And not saying I have all the answers. But there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread IMO.

 

[sezwho]

Bill isn't going to recognize his own shortcomings as GM as the ultimate problem with the team, not at this stage of his life.



Mac was a huge part of the problem this year but the OL sucks, particularly at pass blocking, and the WR/TE groups are almost as bad.

Special teams has been on a multi year downtrend as well, and the heir apparent Schooler is the biggest toolbag I’ve seen In years.

Given unfettered control, Bill now produces a defense.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Just to add on:

- my assumption is he wants to coach for ~2 more years. That lets him break Shula's record, get the team on the right path, ultimately have more of a succession handoff in place that continues to move the franchise forward and ideally sets up his own kids for success in their NFL careers.
- I do not think he's excited about trying to "start over" somewhere else. This is someone that worked for a variety of owners/organizations and has stressed many times the culture/environment is everything. Hiring an entire new (or mostly new) staff, all new players, while potentially not having full control is not an endeavor I expect many 70+ year olds who are widely viewed as the greatest to ever do it, would want to do. I can't picture Pop doing that in the NBA for example.
- I do think they generally tried to tank, or not coach to win for the last half of the season so I'd throw out almost all of it. The team sucked, that's not up for debate.
- If I'm the Krafts, the fans seem to want him back, BB is generally accepting of the fact that he needs more help on the personnel side, and they do not seem to have a good succession plan. I do not think they expected to need one in 2024.
- Bringing him back for ~2 years, with a rebuilt front office (much like the Celtics did to their coaching staff), solves a lot of this.

I actually thought BB's comment about what time the meeting was "leave that in house, could be more than one meeting" fascinating. That not only indicates nothing has been finalized, but a willingness to make it an iterative process to get the organization on the right path from ownership to coaching to front office, AS A PARTNERSHIP.

If BB comes in with that specific of a "want" (coach ~2 more years) and is willing to be part of succession planning and accept bringing in some new people as part of that, I think that would be as close to a best case scenario as is possible. Kraft would be crazy not to take him up on it.

 

[lexrageorge]

I interpret Bill's statement as saying that if Kraft offered Bill to have someone come in and run the entire personnel/scouting org, he would consider it. But there's a potential for all sorts of awkwardness if such a transition is not done correctly. If Bill still has final say, does that really change anything in Kraft's mind? If Bill doesn't have final say, then will Bill and the new GM be willing to keep a united front and avoid any unnecessary leaks to the media over "tension in the draft room"? Again, maybe Bill is willing at this stage in his career, but the Krafts have to be willing as well to make it work.

As someone who is on the "keep Bill" bandwagon, I do think there needs to be changes in the way the organization operates, including the coaching staff. And the Krafts and Bill would both have to be fully on board to making the changes work. What worries me is the Glazer story likely came from someone who is clearly a trusted source (unlike the Curran nonsense), and the leaking of such info to Glazer is not a sign of the Krafts wanting a transition plan that involves Bill in the organization. The source could have been wrong or misinterpreted, and Kraft could change his mind at the last minute. But I would not be surprised if the final answer is that Bill is simply relieved of his duties this week.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I don’t get the impression that this would be any different than how it works today, aside from the word “senior”. Bill isn’t calling the other teams and discussing trade terms. I don’t believe he ever has.

Edit: I don’t get the sense too many people truly understand what his role is as GM. And not saying I have all the answers. But there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread IMO.

I thnk the big problem is not "who does what" so much as the fact that there are a lot of good football people outside of BB's connections and the Pats organization seems to be insular and limited to BB guys. Ideally I'd like to see a GM who has more connections/esposure to the NFL outside BB's network. Obviously, BB is not going to want someone he doesn't know, but I think they need someone with outside experience and connections.

 

[cshea]

A few points from my perspective (and a ton of it is wishcasting on my part)...

The Pats have been fairly tight-lipped throughout the Belichick era. I'm inclined to take all the noise about his departure in the media as click-bait speculation as it seems like this is something that would not have a real source as only the Krafts and Belechick know for certain. I'm somewhat convinced that the final decision hasn't been made yet and if it has been made, it is that he's staying. The logic for me in this is that Kraft is a bigger fan than all of us. If the decision had been made, yesterday would have been a celebration of his career with the Pats rather than just watching Coach make headway into the tunnel. This has been a nearly 30 year relationship between the two. Kraft will show the proper respect.

I disagree on this point. Whether he continues to coach in NE or not Bill is going to get his celebration in NE at some point, much like how they had Brady back this year and are inducting him into the HoF this summer. Bill will get the same treatment when the time is right, probably when he's done coaching.

I kinda think the sign of proper respect is Kraft being deliberate and going through the process, which is what appears to be happening. I don't think Robert wanted to make him a lame duck and then send him out to pasture with Arthur Smith and Ron Rivera on Black Monday.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Eh, when both units are healthy, I’d say overall it’s pretty close to average overall. Probably a bit below average, but not THAT bad. Depth at Tackle is pretty awful, though I don’t think it’s unfixable. Even one guy changes things.

Strange getting hurt was unfortunate but Brown is a headcase who has quit on the team repeatedly, Owenu struggles in pass pro against speed and is better suited at RG than RT (even though he can play both well), and RG was a weak spot too though Sow/Mafi got better as the year progressed. They need two OTs at a minimum.

Nothing about the WR corp is close to average, they're terrible except for Bourne (hurt) and Douglas. They need a #1 and #2 WR.

Henry is a good receiver but sucks at blocking which limits how multiple they can be in 12 personnel. Gesicki flat out sucks, Pharoh is the opposite of Henry, they do not have a complete TE on the roster.

Outside of QB they have at least five glaring holes on offense many of which are at critical positions. No average QB was going to turn this mess into chicken salad.

 

[8slim]

This right here. It’s not going to work. We have had 24 years with 20 plus of them great to outstanding. This isn’t going to last forever. This is the time to do it with a high pick and cap space.

Well, as long as you’re sure.

If they try bringing in a GM and it doesn’t work, chances are we’ll have a high pick and cap room for the next attempt too. This ain’t MLB, most contracts are short and it only takes a year-ish to clear bad spending off the books.

If people think Bill should be gone then of course that’s fine. I just don’t buy into this frantic “it has to be NOW!!!” take. Another year or two ain’t gonna kill the franchise for a decade. That’s preposterous.

 

[tims4wins]

I thnk the big problem is not "who does what" so much as the fact that there are a lot of good football people outside of BB's connections and the Pats organization seems to be insular and limited to BB guys. Ideally I'd like to see a GM who has more connections/esposure to the NFL outside BB's network. Obviously, BB is not going to want someone he doesn't know, but I think they need someone with outside experience and connections.

I agree.

 

[mcpickl]

Just to add on:

- my assumption is he wants to coach for ~2 more years. That lets him break Shula's record, get the team on the right path, ultimately have more of a succession handoff in place that continues to move the franchise forward and ideally sets up his own kids for success in their NFL careers.
- I do not think he's excited about trying to "start over" somewhere else. This is someone that worked for a variety of owners/organizations and has stressed many times the culture/environment is everything. Hiring an entire new (or mostly new) staff, all new players, while potentially not having full control is not an endeavor I expect many 70+ year olds who are widely viewed as the greatest to ever do it, would want to do. I can't picture Pop doing that in the NBA for example.
- I do think they generally tried to tank, or not coach to win for the last half of the season so I'd throw out almost all of it. The team sucked, that's not up for debate.
- If I'm the Krafts, the fans seem to want him back, BB is generally accepting of the fact that he needs more help on the personnel side, and they do not seem to have a good succession plan. I do not think they expected to need one in 2024.
- Bringing him back for ~2 years, with a rebuilt front office (much like the Celtics did to their coaching staff), solves a lot of this.

I actually thought BB's comment about what time the meeting was "leave that in house, could be more than one meeting" fascinating. That not only indicates nothing has been finalized, but a willingness to make it an iterative process to get the organization on the right path from ownership to coaching to front office, AS A PARTNERSHIP.

The bolded here is the part I haven't been able to square with Bill going somewhere else.

It just doesn't make sense to me a guy that'll be 72 next season will just pick up and start over. A player can just plop into a new team, but Bill would have to build his whole system there. Build a new coaching staff(while surely bringing some with him), build a relationship with a new owner, bring in his Myron Guyton type players to help tutor the players who've never played for him, build relationships and/or hire scouting/GM staffs, see if he can lure Berj out of New England. That feels like a lot for what I'd guess isn't a super long term job for him at his age.

Also, I watched the video of the press conference where Belichick is talking about deciding collectively about the best thing for the organization, and he's quoted about having final say as "I have it". I'm not sure that's what he said. I think he says " I have, uh, I rely on a lot of other people to help" I'm not positive but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

People are interpreting a statement that said nothing in some really weird ways.

“I’m for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing to help our football team”.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I dunno. I feel like, by the way he's talking, he's coming back next season. And by that I mean as GM and coach.

" I’m for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing to help our football team."

He continually mentions he's under contract - some take that to subliminaly (as if that's how BB operates) mean "I'm only leaving if I'm fired". It could also simply be taken as, "I still have a year left here".

If he spoke to Kraft and felt comfortable that he would be back, then both of those things could be taken as a sign he'll be back. We're all reading tea leaves. What I will say, however, is that it's crazy to think BB and Kraft haven't spoken yet. And BB isn't giving any indication that he's on his way out.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

If the collective agreeement is for him to leave, then he’s for that too. This vague statement is a Rorschach test. It means whatever you want it to mean.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

I don't interpret his comments to be saying he'll be okay being relieved of having 'final say', which is really what we're talking about re: Bill the GM.

I also agree with those that surmise that Bill will force RKK to fire him if the alternative is being demoted.

Do we know if Bill has an agent or an advisor? Seems to be a requirement for him if he's moving on, either under the small chance he is traded or the more likely of being a FA.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The only thing we know for sure after the morning comments is that Belichick isn't going to walk away on his own. I think it's fair to draw from this that it's completely on the Krafts to make this call. Where it gets wonky is his comment that he has the final say -- until such time, we'd presume, that Kraft tells him he doesn't. So, pretty much what we've been discussing for weeks.
Overall, the needle didn't move much ... unless you think, as I do, that he just told Kraft either to let him go, or to keep him with some organization tweaks that don't include taking the final say away from him.
In the end, it's not about what he wants, it's about what the Krafts want.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I don't interpret his comments to be saying he'll be okay being relieved of having 'final say', which is really what we're talking about re: Bill the GM.

I also agree with those that surmise that Bill will force RKK to fire him if the alternative is being demoted.

Do we know if Bill has an agent or an advisor? Seems to be a requirement for him if he's moving on, either under the small chance he is traded or the more likely of being a FA.

He doesn't have an agent, but he used to be repped by Neil Cornrich who I think still advises him, and certainly would pick him back up if needed

 

[BusRaker]

Meh ... I don't think his comments are anything more than a well-rehearsed witness on the stand. "I'm under contract for another year", "I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make the team better".
His comments tend to land on the poker face side rather than the "show my hand" as we all know although this is about him, not some player etc. but I don't think anyone even Kraft knows what the fuck will happen right now.

My "speculation" is that a lot of this is about who gets to taste that sweet 3rd pick in the draft (most likely MJH or Daniels ... is this the nightest we drafted since Bledsoe?), and Bill saying even though he has the contractual "final say" he is willing to make it a group decision rather than a dictatorial (pardon the expression) one.

Popcorn is running low though ...

 

[GlucoDoc]

I am a year older than Bill. 72 now. I officially "retired" last June. I had a 41 year career in one place, and was in various leadership positions during that time. As I got older (mid 60's) I began reducing my work load by mutual agreement. I gave up control of many things. I did not always agree with decisions that were being made by others, but, until the official retirement, I held on to what I enjoyed doing the most and was best at. I offered suggestions but accepted that others were now making some of the decisions. I accepted that would not agree with all of those decisions. The truth was that, at this age, one begins to slow down and get tired!! Once I took each step in reducing my load, I looked back with great relief that I did not have as much responsibility and pressure. The fade back was good.

So, from Bills comments it may be that he is thinking the same way. He realizes that his best skill is coaching. His main objective is Shula's record. He would also like to leave the team in better shape than it was in 2023. And, as many have said, he really does NOT want to start over elsewhere. (Lord knows, I would not have wanted to in my 70's!!) So he might have come to the realization that giving up GM (still being there to "advise") and staying with coaching gives him the fade that he needs/wants and is willing to accept it. He could even embrace it. It may well be a relief, and would allow him do what he really likes best and accomplish his important goals.

 

[mcpickl]

Strange getting hurt was unfortunate but Brown is a headcase who has quit on the team repeatedly, Owenu struggles in pass pro against speed and is better suited at RG than RT (even though he can play both well), and RG was a weak spot too though Sow/Mafi got better as the year progressed. They need two OTs at a minimum.

Nothing about the WR corp is close to average, they're terrible except for Bourne (hurt) and Douglas. They need a #1 and #2 WR.

Henry is a good receiver but sucks at blocking which limits how multiple they can be in 12 personnel. Gesicki flat out sucks, Pharoh is the opposite of Henry, they do not have a complete TE on the roster.

Outside of QB they have at least five glaring holes on offense many of which are at critical positions. No average QB was going to turn this mess into chicken salad.

I thought they found something in Sow. I admit I lean on PFF because I'm far from an OLine expert, but from the time they moved Onwenu out to RT, I thought the right side of the line was good. When Onwenu went to RT full time in week seven, he and David Andrews played every snap the rest of the way and Sow missed half the Miami game and otherwise played every snap the rest of the season. Seemed like the fires were put out on that side, and most of the damage was Mafi at LG and the revolving door at LT.

Also, Onwenu/Sow/Dave Andrews combined for zero penalties from that point.

I'd be thrilled if they re-sign Onwenu and come back with those three in that alignment.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I think it would be awesome if they didn't announce anything regarding his status. Just like when we would never really know his contract status.

Just keep going without saying a word.



Obviously, that's not going to happen.

 

[joe dokes]

The bolded here is the part I haven't been able to square with Bill going somewhere else.

It just doesn't make sense to me a guy that'll be 72 next season will just pick up and start over. A player can just plop into a new team, but Bill would have to build his whole system there. Build a new coaching staff(while surely bringing some with him), build a relationship with a new owner, bring in his Myron Guyton type players to help tutor the players who've never played for him, build relationships and/or hire scouting/GM staffs, see if he can lure Berj out of New England. That feels like a lot for what I'd guess isn't a super long term job for him at his age.

It makes a bit more sense if we're all wrong and BB is ready to stop coaching and take on the overseeing of an organization. Like Parcells did with the Dolphins.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

He doesn't have an agent, but he used to be repped by Neil Cornrich who I think still advises him, and certainly would pick him back up if needed

This led me to the very amusing mental image of Belichick being repped by an agent who pushes him to do commercials and then BB grumpily hawking Belichick-fil-a and the like

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

He doesn't have an agent, but he used to be repped by Neil Cornrich who I think still advises him, and certainly would pick him back up if needed

Interesting, as Cornrich also represents Mike Vrabel.

 

[mcpickl]

This led me to the very amusing mental image of Belichick being repped by an agent who pushes him to do commercials and then BB grumpily hawking Belichick-fil-a and the like

 

[phineas gage]

I’m not sure he even wants to be GM anymore.

Kind of interesting to compare BB with Red, as they both wore both organizational hats for a long period of time. Red was eager to get out of the stress of coaching and telegraphed his departure in 1966. Bill seems to be wired just the opposite--loves the coaching, probably views the GM duties as more drudgery. Obviously different eras, different sports, etc. Guess you could include Sinden as well, but his situation was different in several ways.

 

[astrozombie]

View attachment 76266

"It's a good sandwich. Had a good day, did everything I asked of it. Covered the gaps in my hunger."

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Strange getting hurt was unfortunate but Brown is a headcase who has quit on the team repeatedly, Owenu struggles in pass pro against speed and is better suited at RG than RT (even though he can play both well), and RG was a weak spot too though Sow/Mafi got better as the year progressed. They need two OTs at a minimum.

Nothing about the WR corp is close to average, they're terrible except for Bourne (hurt) and Douglas. They need a #1 and #2 WR.

Henry is a good receiver but sucks at blocking which limits how multiple they can be in 12 personnel. Gesicki flat out sucks, Pharoh is the opposite of Henry, they do not have a complete TE on the roster.

Outside of QB they have at least five glaring holes on offense many of which are at critical positions. No average QB was going to turn this mess into chicken salad.

There aren’t many TE in the league who are good at both receiving and blocking. The likely alternative to Henry is someone who is a worse receiver and better blocker. I don’t know that’s a net upgrade, or should have been viewed as one coming into the season. Belichick has often had one receiver and one blocker TE (absent the Gronk years) and I don’t think he views Henry as in the glorified receiver style. Whether or not he has an overly optimistic view of Henry’s blocking is another story. But Henry, throughout his career, has been average to a little below average (not useless) at blocking. Maybe he’s regressing, maybe the lack of RT hurt him, maybe it’s coaching. But his receiving should make up for being a little below average as a blocker (theoretically)

As for the OL, yeah Trent Brown is frustrating but there simply aren’t many good LT in the league. Is 17 games of consistently below average but not terrible play better than 10 games of Brown and 7 games of awful backup play? Maybe.

I do think it’s fair to question the lack of investment in young tackles between 2018 (Wynn) and 2022 as it left them reliant on Brown but going into the season with Brown/Strange/Andrews/Onwenu/(whoever won the spot in camp) seemed reasonable given the number of bodies they had to fill RT and the depth chart elsewhere. BB is having the same struggle a lot of teams are - a massive league wide lack of starting caliber tackles. And while betting on Trent Brown is a huge risk, it’s more likely to pan out than a draft pick.

 

[Cellar-Door]

There aren’t many TE in the league who are good at both receiving and blocking. The likely alternative to Henry is someone who is a worse receiver and better blocker. I don’t know that’s a net upgrade, or should have been viewed as one coming into the season. Belichick has often had one receiver and one blocker TE (absent the Gronk years) and I don’t think he views Henry as in the glorified receiver style. Whether or not he has an overly optimistic view of Henry’s blocking is another story. But Henry, throughout his career, has been average to a little below average (not useless) at blocking. Maybe he’s regressing, maybe the lack of RT hurt him, maybe it’s coaching. But his receiving should make up for being a little below average as a blocker (theoretically)

As for the OL, yeah Trent Brown is frustrating but there simply aren’t many good LT in the league. Is 17 games of consistently below average but not terrible play better than 10 games of Brown and 7 games of awful backup play? Maybe.

I do think it’s fair to question the lack of investment in young tackles between 2018 (Wynn) and 2022 as it left them reliant on Brown but going into the season with Brown/Strange/Andrews/Onwenu/(whoever won the spot in camp) seemed reasonable given the number of bodies they had to fill RT and the depth chart elsewhere. BB is having the same struggle a lot of teams are - a massive league wide lack of starting caliber tackles. And while betting on Trent Brown is a huge risk, it’s more likely to pan out than a draft pick.

It's pretty telling about tackle caliber league wide that the second and 3rd best tackles in this FA class according to PFF are.... Trent Brown and Mike Onwenwu. CBS lists Onwenwu as an IOL but otherwise it would be the same.

 

[Super Nomario]

This was my take. Likely wants to bring in more senior voices to improve the inputs to the process, allow them to set the research agenda and ultimately take more of the research away from him so he's approving/offering suggestions rather than doing the leg work. That would allow him to focus on the coaching, while still having final say, but in more of a "go, no go" vs. let me call 30 teams to get a deal done process.

I'm just not sure how different that really is from how things operate today (which is partly what Belichick is saying if you read his whole comment).

I think there's an easy solution to that (although you could certainly debate that it's not an optimal situation); Kraft would have the 'final say' on all draft picks and personnel moves.

So, although it seems like an immature / dysfunctional arrangement --- the GM would just have to 'come to the old man for the final decision' if others in the organization were a challenge to a particular decision.

This is the worst solution to me. You can have the HC over the GM, you can have the GM over the HC. But you don't want the owner, not a football guy, adjudicating football decisions.

 

[dynomite]

I'm just not sure how different that really is from how things operate today (which is partly what Belichick is saying if you read his whole comment).

Exactly -- and it seems to me that's basically been the case throughout his tenure, right? Belichick has always had a Pioli/Caserio/Groh type in the front office who has handled the bulk of personnel moves, obviously with Belichick's significant input and ultimate decisionmaking (as we see on Draft Nights when he and his dog are making final selections).

This is the worst solution to me. You can have the HC over the GM, you can have the GM over the HC. But you don't want the owner, not a football guy, adjudicating football decisions.

Right, and they're also prone to murky, tense dynamics, right? Take the Bill O'Brien situation: according to reports, last offseason Belichick wanted to stick with Patricia and Kraft forced him to hire O'Brien. If it's true, Belichick doesn't even have final say on his own senior coaching partners. Even if it's not true, that kind of story can create resentment as everyone involved tries to figure out who leaked what and who's talking to the press.

 

[RedOctober3829]

He also specifically mentioned this morning that he's under contract - meaning, Kraft would have to fire him to move on. Again, clearly that was intentional.

Honestly, this morning's quotes makes me want him back 100%.

The last 4 years worth of results both on and off the field speak more than a quote when he knows he's up against the wall.

 

[Sausage in Section 17]

It makes a bit more sense if we're all wrong and BB is ready to stop coaching and take on the overseeing of an organization. Like Parcells did with the Dolphins.

It's just a big guessing game of "what does Bill want?" right now.

If he wants to maximize his legacy, then he should probably pick the team with the best roster/chances over the next few years, and let it ride for 3-4 seasons. This would ensure he gets all the all time records, and gives him the best chance at another ring. I am assuming he will be out of the game within 5 years. He might choose to focus on winning quickly in the limited time he has left, and this would make staying in New England (given their current status) a less likely outcome.

If he values stability, consistency, and loyalty, then he will keep on as he has, and it will sound the same as it always has, just like this mornings presser. But...the fact that he is under contract for only one more year feels like a key factor. Belichick and the Kraft's are both worried about more than just next year. BB's career and the direction of the NEP franchise are both at pivotal junctures, where the next 3-4 years will be definitive for their respective futures.

If the Pats are going to consider having BB return, then they must address what the succession plan will be. In fact, if everyone is most concerned about what is best for the franchise, then the question of succession, since it so apparent that it will happen and soon, needs to be somewhat primary. The Pats have reached a point where, whether BB stays or goes, there is a need to address and set a new course for the long term stability of the franchise, a need that has not been present in over 20 years. Whether it's next year, or in 2-4 years, replacing the GOAT coach and overhauling the team's leadership is a task this team faces. If BB returns, it should be with the understanding or hope that the team doesn't find itself in the same spot in 2-3 years.

Of course, I know nothing. But it just doesn't feel like Belichick's style is to chase rings for the sake of rings. He feels like a Northeast guy, through and through. Old school values, can't be bothered to keep up appearances or play "nice", is less concerned for how it looks than whether it is working. Through his success in NE, he gets a pass for a lot of this stuff, but would it play as well in a different market, where he hasn't won yet? It feels like there would be risk for BB going somewhere new. Would he win? Would he enjoy himself? Would he tarnish his legacy? I think it would be easier for him not to win in New England, where he will always the the GOAT. If he goes elsewhere and fails to win, that could be a sad last chapter to his sterling career.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

If BB hasn't been fired yet, he's not getting fired. There's no way you keep him waiting.

If this was already decided they would have done it this morning with a big statement and thank you to the greatest coach to ever lace them up.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

If BB hasn't been fired yet, he's not getting fired. There's no way you keep him waiting.

If this was already decided they would have done it this morning with a big statement and thank you to the greatest coach to ever lace them up.

I don’t think him being fired was ever realistic for several reasons (it eliminates potential compensation and probably isn’t a good look for Kraft). This isn’t Arthur Smith. A “mutual parting” ways and is the likeliest ending here, and it could take some time.

 

[Justthetippett]

If BB hasn't been fired yet, he's not getting fired. There's no way you keep him waiting.

If this was already decided they would have done it this morning with a big statement and thank you to the greatest coach to ever lace them up.

But they haven't finished their staredown over tea and strumpets in Brookline yet!

Seriously, I hope you are right and I think most fans are rallying around Bill. The only thing I keep thinking of is that third option where they are working on a transfer to another team. They can do this the easy simple way, or drag it out and make it complicated.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I don’t think him being fired was ever realistic for several reasons (it eliminates potential compensation and probably isn’t a good look for Kraft). This isn’t Arthur Smith. A “mutual parting” ways and is the likeliest ending here, and it could take some time.

I think a non-compensation mutual “parting ways” would likely happen today, as well. Unless you’re counting a trade under that umbrella.

 

[RedOctober3829]

If BB hasn't been fired yet, he's not getting fired. There's no way you keep him waiting.

If this was already decided they would have done it this morning with a big statement and thank you to the greatest coach to ever lace them up.

This isn't true. BB and the Krafts haven't even met yet to discuss the future. There wasn't going to be a Black Monday press release. The meetings reportedly may even go on for a couple of days.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

This isn't true. BB and the Krafts haven't even met yet to discuss the future. There wasn't going to be a Black Monday press release. The meetings reportedly may even go on for a couple of days.

How do you know they haven't met yet? If you were firing him why would you need to meet with him to discuss the future for which he won't be a part of?